"I went to Jerusalem to become acquainted (Gk. istoria) with Cephas" - Paul's words from Galatians 1:18.

It Is Now Time for Dr. Paige Patterson to Step Down

Paige Patterson (Paul Mosely/Fort Worth Star-Telegram)
It's time for Dr. Paige Patterson, President of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas, to step down from leadership in the Southern Baptist Convention, which would include an immediate resignation from his position as President of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary

Dr. Paige Patterson has created a firestorm in the media this past weekend over his public comments that an abused wife should stay in a physically abusive marriage. He said that a woman "who is undergoing genuine physical abuse from her husband, and her husband says she should submit" should do so. And he went on to say that the abused woman should:
"Pray at night beside her bed, quietly, for God to intervene."
Don't call the police. Don't file for divorce. Don't leave the abusive home. Pray. And if the abuse continues, "be happy" because God will hear her prayers and reach her husband through them and her quiet submission.

Twitter is ablaze with fury over what Dr. Patterson said.

Ironically, ten years ago I called out Dr. Patterson for these very remarks.

Nobody seemed to be paying attention then.

But in the days of #metoo and #churchtoo, people are much more keen to the issue of abuse. I'm not unfamiliar with the Southern Baptist Convention waiting ten years before correcting an error.

I like Dr. Paige Patterson. I have enjoyed dinner at his home. I have been the recipient of floral arrangements sent by Dr. and Mrs. Patterson (twice). I harbor no personal animosity toward Dr. Patterson or his family.

However, it's time for Dr. Patterson to step down from his leadership positions in the Southern Baptist Convention. He is scheduled to give the Convention Sermon at the 2018 Southern Baptist Convention in Dallas, Texas. He serves as President of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

It's time for Dr. Paige Patterson to step down from every leadership position he holds in the SBC.

Listen carefully Southern Baptists. Please, do not be tone deaf on this issue. If Dr. Paige Patterson is allowed to continue in leadership within the Southern Baptist Convention, Southern Baptists will lose any remaining credibility we possess as we share the Good News with the world at large. 

Dr. Patterson must step down. He must resign. If he does not, he must be removed.

Here are the top ten reasons Paige Patterson should resign immediately - or be removed by others - from his positions of leadership in the Southern Baptist Convention:
1. Paige Patterson has counseled physically abused wives to stay in their marriages.
2. Paige Patterson fired the finest Hebrew professor in the SBC because she was a woman.
3. Paige Patterson rescinded a seminary job offer to a popular SWBTS vocalist because Patterson discovered the vocalist was married to a divorced woman who had left an abusive marriage.
4. Paige Patterson is currently a party in a sexual abuse lawsuit, along with Judge Paul Pressler, a lawsuit that will soon be going to trial in Texas.
5. Paige Patterson protected a sexual predator by refusing to report him to authorities.
6. During a public sermon in 2016, Paige Patterson made suggestive comments about a 16-year-old girl being "built."
7.  It is possible that the Hebrew parchments purchased by the Pattersons for an unknown sum (e.g. in the millions of dollars) during a time of insitutional financial crisis, fragments that are now on display at the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary,  may actually be fakes. 
8.  Violating the school charter and admission policies, Paige Patterson admitted a practicing Muslim into Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, displaying the belief that he is above accountablity and oversight.
9.  Last year's full-time equivalent (FTE) student enrollment at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary was 1249, nearly half of the 2381 FTE's during the final year of Dr. Ken Hemphill tenure at SWBTS. Ironically, one of the stated reasons for Dr. Hemphill being forced out was "declining enrollment."
10.  Contrary to Southern Baptist polity and policy, Dr. Patterson is having a retirement home built for him on the grounds of Southwestern Seminary where he will be able to attend weekly chapels where his image is engraved in the stain glassed windows
I'm not an outsider calling for Dr. Patterson's resignation.

For the past quarter of a century, I have been the pastor of a Southern Baptist Church in northwest Oklahoma.

My father was a Southern Baptist pastor of the fastest growing Southern Baptist Church in Texas during the 1970's. My grandfather was a Southern Baptist evangelist. I served two terms as President of the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma (2002-2004). It was also my privilege to serve on the International Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention (2005-2008), and I was fortunate to serve as the last Chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention's Denominational Calendar Committee (1995).

My Southern Baptist roots in Texas go back to Rufus Columbus Burleson, the first President of Baylor University after it moved to Waco, Texas. The name Burleson is engraved at the top of the Texas State Fair Park alongside Lubbock, Austin, Houston, Travis, and others. I only give this background to let the reader know this recommendation Dr. Patterson resign does not come from someone outside the Southern Baptist Convention.

I am a Southern Baptist.

There have been times the Southern Baptist Convention has been an embarrassment to me.

Nevertheless, Southern Baptists are family to me.

I call on Dr. Paige Patterson to step down from leadership within the Southern Baptist Convention before the 2018 Southern Baptist Convention in Dallas, Texas for the sake of the family.

Dr. Kevin Ueckert, Chairman of the SWBTS Board of Trustees, I trust - as in trustee - you are listening to the public, and more importantly, Southern Baptists? Steve Gaines, President of the Southern Baptist Convention, are you listening too?

We may not have an Executive Director of the SBC right now, but the people of the Southern Baptist Convention are the true leaders according to the SBC constitution, and Southern Baptists are now -after decades of silence - finally speaking out.

If Paige Patterson does not step down from his leadership positions before the 2018 Southern Baptist Convention in Dallas, Texas, this June, then you men will need to remove him.

For the credibility of our message.

65 comments:

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

OK, I’ve got the pole if you’ll get the tar and feathers. :)

Slick Paige wrote this yesterday: By Paige Patterson on Apr 29, 2018
For the past several months, my life and the lives of my family have been subjected to rigorous misrepresentation. Even had I done some hideous wrong of which I am accused, my wife, children, and grandchildren have not and do not deserve such mischaracterization.
For the record, I have never been abusive to any woman. I have never counseled or condoned abuse of any kind. I will never be a party to any position other than that of the defense of any weaker party when subjected to the threat of a stronger party. This certainly includes women and children. Any physical or sexual abuse of anyone should be reported immediately to the appropriate authorities, as I have always done.
I have also said that I have never recommended or prescribed divorce. How could I as a minister of the Gospel? The Bible makes clear the way in which God views divorce. I have on more than one occasion counseled and aided women in leaving an abusive husband. So much is this the case that on an occasion during my New Orleans pastorate, my own life was threatened by an abusive husband because I counseled his wife, and assisted her, in departing their home to seek protection. In short, I have no sympathies at all for cowardly acts of abuse toward women.
Many years ago in West Texas, a woman approached me about the desire of her husband to prevent her attendance in church. He was neither harsh nor physical with her, but she felt abused. I suggested to her that she kneel by the bed at night and pray for him. Because he might hear her prayer, I warned her that he could become angry over this and seek to retaliate. Subsequently, on a Sunday morning, she arrived at church with some evidence of physical abuse. She was very surprised that this had happened. But I had seen her husband come into the church and sit down at the back. I knew that God had changed this man’s heart. What he had done to his wife had brought conviction to his heart. I was happy—not that she had suffered from his anger, but that God had used her to move her husband to conviction of his sin. I knew that she was going to be happy for him also. That morning, he did make his decision for Christ public before the church, and she was ecstatic. They lived happily together from that time on in commitment to Christ. There was no further abuse. In fact, their love for one another and commitment to their home was evident to all. She herself often shared this testimony. For sharing this illustration, especially in the climate of this culture, I was probably unwise. However, my suggestion was never that women should stay in the midst of abuse, hoping their husbands would eventually come to Christ. Rather, I was making the application that God often uses difficult things that happen to us to produce ultimate good. And I will preach that truth until I die.
The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood released a statement regarding abuse with which I agree entirely. I do not believe there is a woman or girl ever associated with me who would allege any abuse on my part. To all who love me and have supported me across the years and to those who have been wounded by these accusations, I express my deepest regret. I do not apologize for my stand for the family and for seeking to mend a marriage through forgiveness rather than divorce. But I do greatly regret that the way I expressed that conviction has brought hurt. I also regret for my own family this deliberate misrepresentation of my position as well as the hatred that lies behind much of it.
Paige Patterson, President
Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary
Fort Worth, Texas

JDV said...

Hey, relatively new to your site via the Wartburg Watch.

Patterson’s above statement posted by Rex Ray references not recommending divorce because it’s not Biblical. We’ll come back to that one.

In the 2009 TWW article what I found interesting was the same rationale apparently offered as it related to the Gilyard allegations:
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2009/06/16/a-call-for-paige-pattersons-resignation-from-the-ministry/

From the 2009 article: “‘We were dealing with a man of special gifts and talents,’ Dr. Patterson said. ‘I was unwilling to call anyone guilty until I had demonstrable evidence that these allegations were true.’ Dr. Patterson said that according to Scriptures, action cannot be taken against a minister accused of adultery unless there are two or more witnesses. He also asked for any other proof, such as photographs, videotapes or laboratory tests!”

Thinking Biblically, I don’t believe the institutions which have been financing Patterson’s career during the times of the matters at hand are operating at a pre-Acts 6 organizational structure. Why is that significant? Because these institutions are by and large enmeshed with the state, from their 501(c)3 status to those gold-edged flags in the edifices — which it’s been contended puts them under admiralty law and thus under subjection to the state as the highest authority.

You don’t get to cozy up to the state when it’s convenient for nest-feathering, only to turn solely to Biblical authority — with the church leader(s) as said enforcer — in matters that involve churchgoers who are also subject to local, state, and federal laws and regulations. Where is the acknowledgement from these oft-capricious authoritarians of rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, or Romans 13 and Roman citizen Paul’s observing that the civil authorities not bearing the sword in vain?

We can now circle back to Patterson’s 2018 statement referencing not recommending divorce because it’s not Biblical. His spin appears to be a colossal strawman to anyone with common sense, as a woman seeking his advice and guidance not only reported physical abuse but showed credible evidence of it. Unless physical assault is not a crime where he was pastoring (I’m admittedly not up on NeoCal seminary discipline methods), not directing her to the authorities (and perchance acting as a witness to what he’d seen and heard doesn’t ring true as far as being subject to civil authorities and rendering sufficiently unto Caesar. That’s especially if the case if his reported 2009 quote is accurate: “Get ready because he may get a little more violent, you know, when he discovers this.”

Additionally, I don’t see where the “special gifts and talents” of Gilyard or anyone else is supposed to factor into the civil duties of someone acting in authority at an institution enmeshed with the state. (Being affiliated or not with the state via 501c3 etc isn’t the issue, but the high degree of involvement further undercuts the excuse that these actions are bolstered by a truly Biblical approach.) Plus, what’s with all of these lawyers and spokesmen the authoritarians being into the situation? If they’re going to go the two-three witness route and leave it at that before considering involving the state or anyone from the outside, then why not rather be wronged than let it go to that per a proof-texted reading of 1 Cor. 6?

The bottom line is the authoritarians need to be called out when they to have it both ways.

steve baughman said...

In December 2017 I had several email exchanges with Patterson about another scandal-plagued evangelist, Ravi Zacharias. Patterson is fully informed about the Zacharias credential fraud and his online affair with a married Canadian woman. Yet Patterson (who share his initials with Pontius Pilate) has washed his hands of all that. He continues to share the pulpit with Zacharias and has refused to publicly comment on what is nothing short of a big middle finger to Jesus by "the great apologist of our time."

Yes, Paige needs to go. The problem is, will he be replaced by someone who has integrity? Or will we get more of the same?

Anonymous said...

Funny how you constantly ignore Mohler. They are two peas in a pod, Mohler and Patterson. You even insisted on people believing JD Hall. I guess some thugs get a pass from you.

Wade Burleson said...

Anonymous,

I'm not ignoring Mohler.

9 Marks is and has been a concern of mine for a few years now, and he's a leader and hero of all things 9 Marks.

Remember this? http://www.wadeburleson.org/2015/05/it-takes-village-covenant-to-raise.html

And this? http://www.wadeburleson.org/2015/05/five-reasons-to-say-no-to-church.html

Schnappsburger said...

I cannot and do not disagree with the indictments of these ludicrous statements and inconsistencies. However, I do not see the need for going to extreme solutions all the time. We all have feet of clay, some of us up to our navels. I am more of a Stalinist. I prefer to deprogram and reprogram people and then rehabilitate them --or at least try this alternative before implementing banishment. In this construct we must ask ourselves, "Are there terms and conditions under which these saved people can be saved again? Can they yet be born again again? If so, how?" Let me hasten to add that I find the likelihood of such working, but I don't think it ungodly to give it a try. For one thing, we need to understand more of why these things have gotten so far out of hand in the first place. What has transpired is beyond the pale.

James Lutzweiler
Archivist (1999-2013), Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary

Schnappsburger said...

Correction: Read, "I find the likelihood of such working REMOTE . . ."

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

Sorry I didn’t say more than “Slick Paige” when I quoted his ‘story’ of the abusive husband being saved. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again what my father taught me: “If a person will lie about something small, they’ll lie about anything.”

I’ll repeat what Patterson whispered in my ear, “We got all we could” after he had shouted to the crowd: “WE GOT ALL OF THEM”. I had asked him if “The Criswell Study Bible” explained all the errors thought by some.

He told my sister that Wade’s blog was nothing but lies after it exposed a Muslim was a student at SWBTS.

It’s a proven fact if a person will lie they don’t have a conscious about stealing, being honest, or taking something they don’t deserve.

That reminds me of Harry Truman after he was President turning down a high paying job: “You’re not hiring me; you want the President of the United States and it’s not for sale.”

Wade, the last thing your post said, “…you men need to remove him.” How about men AND women embarrassing him so much he will remove himself.

We would need a large crowd. I can get several men and women from our church. With newspaper people covering the event, we would have a peaceful march on SWBTS campus.

We would have a pole, tar, and feathers and say we were looking for Patterson. No joke. Any takers from the blogging commenters? It’s easy to be brave behind a computer.

Scott Shaver said...

I take no delight in his pain but a career of "misrepresenting" other fellow baptists is finally catching up to the man.

Debbie Kaufman said...

Thank you for writing this Wade and for refusing to be silent on this and so many other issues with Paige Patterson. Too many to mention here. But thank you for protecting women. I have such a soft spot in my heart for you and Rachelle.

Former SWBTS Student said...

I'm convinced Patterson could murder a man live on stage and the SBC would give him a standing ovation.
I do not disagree. He needs to be removed, but how will that even happen? The trustees and upper echelons of SBC leadership are part of a crony network. The fear for their own job security and family security will prevent them from even suggesting to "cross the boss".
They'll double down. They'll make excuses. They'll downplay. They'll make a video package this summer honoring all he has done these last 40+ years and will be greeted with a standing ovation.
What's even sadder than this? I will not be offended or surprised if that's how this indeed plays out. I have truly lost all faith in these so-called "godly men" years ago.

Interesting piece of history: Patterson claims the evils of liberal theology caused his classmates at NOBTS to walk away from ministry and the faith.

RB Kuter said...

Paige Patterson is only a "symptom" of the real problem. The source of the problem is the spirit and heart of the masses of those involved in the politics of the Southern Baptist Convention, i.e., all those messengers, leaders, staff who attend the annual meetings of the Southern Baptist Convention.

You correctly make reference to the rotten nature of our core when you mention that you attempted to bring attention to Paige making this comment about women 10 years ago but nothing was done and there was no response, certainly no outrage. It is only when the "winds of society" determine that this is so morally decadent that even Southern Baptists take notice and perhaps, some in SBC leadership, though their response remains to be seen. Fact is, it is apparent that our SBC makes a declaration of what is morally decadent based upon Society's Scale and SBC politics.

As I mentioned in response to Wade's previous post, the Board of Trustees of all of our SBC institutions are dropping the ball on asserting proper authority to administer their charged responsibilities over the institutions in a Godly manner. Their decisions as to who will lead institutions (SWBTS,IMB and all the rest) are more often influenced by what is popular, who is the "celebrity" on stage at the moment, and what seems more entertaining.

The Trustees are eventually determined by The President. Who will serve as The President of the SBC? Upon what basis will he be determined? If the past trend prevails, he will be someone with celebrity, record of leading a mega-church, with thousands of saved souls attributed to his ministry. Great for a preacher, but little justification for choosing someone who is to make huge administrative/spiritual decisions that are objective regarding who will serve on those Committees charged with deciding what administrative/spiritual members will serve on our Boards of Trustees.

Our Southern Baptist Convention desperately needs a time of prayer and fasting to see if God can render us all humble, wise, prudent, and sincerely seeking to do HIS will (key word is "HUMBLE").

Christiane said...

maybe the SBC might someday reconsider its treatment of women . . .

the 'recording' of Patterson 'counseling' the abused wife is in itself a vivid expose of abusive treatment . . . the wife is beaten at home and goes to the Church for sanctuary and aid and, instead of proper pastoral care, is pitchforked back into her nightmare with Patterson's 'blessing'. Result: more intensive physical abuse.....

So many things gone wrong here: the idolatry of the 'male' being practiced by Patterson and his cohorts is NOT 'the Gospel of Our Lord', it is simply a mis-interpretation of the Bible where demanding submissive obeisance of one spouse to another is seen as God's Will rather than what it is: one of the results of the Fall . . . a result of sin.

So the SBC has been glorifying something that was never meant to be taught as 'biblical'. And the SBC owes women an apology for perverting the 'either to other' mutual respect and mutual service of spouses INTO the nightmare of women having to 'submit' to a husband in the one-sided arrangement that was the result of 'The Fall'.

Maybe it's time for people to take another look at what Christian marriage is all about. I think it's not too late to salvage something of the original 'either to other' intent, IF the powers-that-be can face what they have done, confront it, repent, and re-consider with attention to the highest of Christian principles to do with the celebration of the mutual love between spouses.

Very sad story about the beaten woman. How many more have there been? Were there any who did NOT survive the next beating, I wonder? God have mercy. Christ have mercy.

Anonymous said...

Just start a new convention! Wouldn't be the first successful break away from the SBC.

Headless Unicorn Guy said...

"It Is Now Time for Dr. Paige Patterson to Step Down"

And take that stained-glass window of himself with him.

Headless Unicorn Guy said...

Former SWBTS Student said...
I'm convinced Patterson could murder a man live on stage and the SBC would give him a standing ovation.


"I kill my own mother and still they cheer me!"
-- Caesar Nero, in Paul Maier's historical novel Flames of Rome

Jim said...

You say you harbor no personal animosity toward Patterson. Anyone who has read your vitriolic tripe over the past 10 years knows that's a lie. You viciously attack people you disagree with & ignore the sins of those you support. I'm not a Patterson supporter. But I am tired of your "holier than thou" pontificating.

Scott Shaver said...

There are countless stories of "pain" in the wake of a "conservative resurrgence" that never quite materialized.

Rex Ray said...

Headless Unicorn Guy,

Instead of giving Patterson the stained-glass picture of himself, it’d be more fitting to add large horns and a tail.

RB,

You’re right about the source of the problem is the SBC. Our President is concerned at the low numbers being saved and picked Patterson as chairman of a committee to pray. Duh

Paul Pressler’s book, “A Hill on Which to Die” tells how to fix Patterson. (I renamed his book: '…Which to Kill') He pointed how the SBC is constructed; the President rules like a King as he has the authority to appoint all ‘below’ him.

Who could we elect as President? Humm I’VE GOT IT: WADE!


Jim,

You look tough, but you’re may loose the rest of your hair around this crowd. No smiley face

Jim said...

Rex Ray - I ain't worried. In over 30 years as a preacher, I've faced a lot tougher than this bunch.

Aussie John said...

Wade,
I won't comment because I'm far removed from the situation you refer to, although having experienced several such in this country, but,I am reminded of what J.C. Ryle once said, “Beware of supposing that a teacher of religion is to be trusted, because although he holds some unsound views, he yet ‘teaches a great deal of truth.’ Such a teacher is precisely the man to do you harm: poison is always most dangerous when it is given in small doses and mixed with wholesome food.”

Wade Burleson said...

Jim,

The principles for which I advocate - respect for women, servant leadership, and equality in the church - will often lead to strong statements against behaviors that are contrary to these biblical principles. I don't intend to write with a holier-than-thou attitude, but I accept that you believe I do.

Scott Shaver said...

Does this also apply to RCC. ?

Anonymous said...

Now do Al Mohler for CJ Mahaney.

RB Kuter said...

Wade, I am not sure you would want to include "Number 6. During a public sermon in 2016, Paige Patterson made suggestive comments about a 16-year-old girl being "built." as one of your points to Paige being ousted.

I followed the link you gave for that sermon (thanks for always including a link to such references). To me it did not seem that Paige was himself referring to any female "being built" in a derogatory manner. In this message, he made reference to a past experience when two young men standing near him with their mother made that comment about an attractive girl passing by. He said the mother slapped them and told them not to speak in such a manner about women. Paige said he told the Mother that the boys were "being Biblical" but this was in the context of his earlier Scripture reading when he said something to the effect of "God beautifully and wonderfully constructing women", but he never said, nor did he say he had said, that any woman was "really built" as to make it a "suggestive comment made by Paige".

I am not suggesting that Paige is not chauvinistic but I believe the reference to that occasion in Paige's message was a stretch and that you may have misrepresented his words. If someone reads your statement based solely on its own merit and did not make the effort to follow the video of Paige's actual words they would come away with a false perception of what he said. I believe you should strike this point. It is not necessary and undermines the credibility of your other points.

Wade Burleson said...

RB Kuter,

I understand your viewpoint. I watched it too, and thought it inappropriate to speak of a 16-year-old girl on this manner. We just disagree, but do agree it is the weakest of the 10 points.

Scott Shaver said...

Beg to differ. He often offers a very generous and biblical perspective. Regarding the thread in question, he like many of us has have "already been there and done that". I understand your frustration with the language of Unicorn, political satire is soup de jour inside and outside our churches these days.

Scott Shaver said...

And allow me to double the emphasis on my own stunned and jawdropping reaction to his display of Christian courage in posting.

Scott Shaver said...

Final clarification of all aforementioned directed at Wade Burleson, by the way.

Rex Ray said...

Jim,

Thanks, I like a quick reply. Did you look upon your congregations as the ‘Shepard’ trying to lead dumb sheep? I believe all Christians are priests.

Wade,

You said the full-time enrollment of 1249 was “less than half of 2381…”

A better statement would be: ‘…1249 was about half of the 2381…’[Do the math.] :)

RB Kuter said...

Rex Ray said, "Who could we elect as President? Humm I’VE GOT IT: WADE!"

RR, I love Wade and respect his integrity and am thankful for one of his many gifts, in particular, his boldness in being a watchdog to sniff out injustices and fallacies among our ranks. I "think" that this tendency of Wade may be what leads "Jim" to say that Wade tends to "viciously attack people you disagree with & ignore the sins of those you support".

In my estimation, Jim, Wade does shine the light on those who he sees as abusing their position and the trust granted to them in those positions. But Wade's spirit displayed in the process seems to be pretty solid; certainly not one of having "hate" toward anyone. As to his "ignoring the sins" of people he likes, you would have to be more specific for me to know if I agree on that one. I can't think of one off hand.

I could see where this attribute of Wade to recognize and boldly point out fallacies, abuse of trust and the self-indulgence of those who are themselves delegated to serve in "oversight" positions could be a positive thing for our SBC President to possess. In particular, those attributes might serve to improve the type of Trustees we have serving on the Boards of our SBC institutions.

I do think, for example, that Wade would choose those to serve on the Committee on Committees whose choices are less influenced by shifting winds of society, public opinion, "pulpit celebrities", or authors of impressive books. So, yeah, maybe Wade would be the example of the type President who could begin to guide us toward having more responsible, sincere Trustees serving on our Boards.

Still, I'm not sure what other agenda Wade might want to push to shift the ideology of our Convention if he was President. I find myself bumping heads with him all the time on his blog about all sorts of theological and doctrinal issues, none of which have anything to do with qualifications for salvation or the identity of Jesus. Mostly, our differences have always been about those mysteries whose truth will only be revealed to us in glory, like, "just what does Scripture mean when it says, 'those who are asleep'??" Lots of fun to discuss and debate.

RB Kuter said...

Wade, you said, "thought it inappropriate to speak of a 16-year-old girl on this manner."

My wife watched it and leaned more toward your conclusion than mine.

JMR said...

Rex Ray - Are you off your meds?

Victorious said...

Paige Patterson made suggestive comments about a 16-year-old girl being "built."

Since Patterson claimed his comment was "biblical", I wish he would have corrected the "fable of the rib" while he was at it. But no...it was selective literalism at it's best.

Here's Katherine Bushnell's explanation of the origin of the "Fable of the Rib." The word is mentioned some 32 times in the OT always translated side/chamber with the exception of the passage in Gen. 2.

Just my opinion about the young girl being referred to as "built"....it usually is referencing particular body parts which is what makes it inappropriate for any female. His remark and the manner in which he said it and tried to justify it, was enough to turn my stomach.

Victorious said...

Oops...forgot to include the link to Bushnell's explanation of the Fable of the Rib origin if anyone is interested.

Here it is...
http://godswordtowomen.org/lesson%205.htm

RB Kuter said...

I know, Victorious. Mine too. I was just proposing that to say, "Paige Patterson made suggestive comments about a 16-year-old girl being "built." leads a person, me, at least, to conclude that he said in regard to a 16-year-old girl, "Man! She's really built!", or something like that, which was not the case. I do agree that the entire illustration did not show any discretion, taste or maturity, but came short of him actually making reference or describing a person as "being built" in his own opinion. To use that particular incident as the basis for shelving Paige based on its own merit was quite weak in my opinion. That's all I was saying.

Anonymous said...

The ironic thing is Patterson is pictured in front of a portrait of SWBTS founder and first president, BH Carroll. Carroll divorced his first wife for infidelity.

Anonymous said...

Just wondering, could the church survive without the SBC? I know, strange thought...seems impossible but, imagine Christ building the church and trusting Him completely?

Anonymous said...

So Paige's description of the creation of woman, "to beautifully and artistically construct," was actually denigrated by him describing any female as, "built" or encouraging teenage boys that it is acceptable behavior to talk in this way - which he did!

He actually said, "She wasn't more than about 16, but let me just say (grunt, licking your lips sound, or some other lustful guttural sound from Patterson) she was nice!" This is what I found shocking. If any Christian man were to say or act anything like that about a 16 year old, I would say as Peter, "...be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election..."

Lee Enochs said...

Great Post Pastor Wade! I agree with you that it is time for Paige Patterson to resign immediately as President of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary or be terminated immediately by the board of trustees.

I posted this video today on this matter. As an alumnus of SWBTS, I agree with you that it is time for Paige Patterson to resign immediately.

https://www.facebook.com/ed.enochs/videos/10214404132284860/

Rex Ray said...

Lee Enuchs,

I clicked on your picture and was surprised how much you’ve written on many subjects. One picture jumped at me that you said you would never forget. It was Bobby Kennedy on the campaign trail for President.

On June 5, 1968, the Kennedy team worried there weren’t enough bodyguards at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles. They hired Thane Eugene Cesar from Ace Guard Service.

Cesar was a 26-year-old plumber who worked part time as a guard. He was a strong supporter of George Wallace who was running for President as the candidate for the American Independent Party. Cesar was outspoken in his hatred of the Kennedys.

Sirhan was in front of Bobby when he fired twice. His first bullet hit Paul Schrade who was walking beside Bobby. People grabbed Sirhan and held his arm down on a table as he kept firing until his gun was empty.

Cesar was walking behind Bobby while holding his arm.

The autopsy revealed 3 bullets fired from behind at an upward angle ended his life. Behind his ear were powder burns, and two powder burns on his clothing was caused by a gun held against his back.

Stanislaw Pruszynski had his cassette recorder going. 13 shots were fired in less than six seconds. The recorder revealed eight gunshots had the same sound and were the 1st, 2nd,4th, 6th,7th,9th,11th, and 13th. These shots would be Sirhan’s since he was the first to shoot. Louder gunshots were the 3rd,5th,8th,10th, and 12th shots.

Cesar’s gun was not tested for being fired. He went to the Philippines and has never been heard of since. 25 years later, Cesar’s gun was found in a pond. The bullets in Bobby matched his gun. When Bobby was on the floor, Cesar’s clip-on tie was nearby as Bobby had yanked it off.

Victorious said...

...He said that a woman "who is undergoing genuine physical abuse from her husband,...

What in the world is "genuine" physical abuse?? Battery is a misdemeanor in most states and should be reported to the governing authorities. Black eyes are clear evidence of this crime and failure to report it denies the purpose of civil, state, and/or federal laws. Romans 13 tells us these laws are ordained by God and to resist them is to resist the purpose; namely justice.

I wonder what action might be taken if Patterson or another leader should be the victim of "genuine" physical abuse from a member of the congregation? Think about it....

Rex Ray said...

Victorious

I believe it'd be more fitting if a woman hit him. :)

Jim said...

I agree it's time for Patterson to go. I said so years ago with the whole Gilyard mess. But there is a trend I have noticed with SBC leadership. No matter who's in control they don't give up easily. There are exceptions of course. But for the most part people tenaciously hold on to leadership. As a pastor I cannot imagine telling a lady to stay with an abusive husband. As a matter of fact I have counseled the complete opposite. I have never understood not allowing women to teach in our seminaries. Some of the finest preachers I know in our country are women. I think maybe it's a generational thing. It is time for a changing of the Guard. The question is- will the guard go quietly?

Anonymous said...

How fitting is it that the current president of the SBC, Steve Gaines, had Paige Patterson preach at his church last month? Birds of a feather, as they say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8kmwAuZso

Anonymous said...

This blog is hateful spew for which you will assuredly give an account. You are on a political witch hunt, nothing more. You are the one who should repent.

Wade Burleson said...

Anonymous,

All my sins were accounted for by God on the cross.

I'm on a mission to root out the unbiblical and anti-Christian view of women in the Convention.

If that's political, then so be it. I'll call it Kingdom politics.

Scott Shaver said...

Darn good response to the “brave” and anonymous one. I like it.

Anonymous said...

"I have truly lost all faith in these so - called godly men...".

I'm right there with you. There seems to be little honor and no lay -down - your - life protection of women or children in the current religious establishment. These leaders protect themselves, their esteem, their positions of power, and their wallets above those in their care, and circle the wagons to protect those guilty of other abuses of power. Pride and arrogance master men given too much power and too little accountability, and women and children are the ones who suffer because of it. Tale as old as time.

Scott Shaver said...

Guilt by association at that level is hitting below the belt. IMO. And the only thing I know about Steve Gaines is that one of our offensive guards at Bartlett High School in Memphis broke his leg during one of our games. The career ending energy propelled him toward Christ.

Scott Shaver said...

Among the things one can say about Ms Colter's positive review of her experince at SWBTS and with Paige as conveyed by SBC Today is that she has learned well the Southwestern culture under its president as well as the shibboleths of inerrancy. Not in the least surprised. She says she speaks on behalf of men as well as women.

Brandon Johnson said...

Your problems with Patterson are with his beliefs and his interpretation of the Bible. Every single story that isn't completely inaccurate, is because of his beliefs. Yet when he was selected, he had the same beliefs. His beliefs aren't even extreme as far as Southern Baptists go. I don't know Patterson, and don't have an opinion on him... but I can easily tell that this is a personal vendetta against him because you disagree with him. There is a difference between doing something wrong, and not doing it the way you would. Patterson has only done the latter... as far as anyone can prove.

Wade Burleson said...

Brandon,

I have no personal ill toward Paige Patterson. Truth be told, I like him.

I have seen and do know women who’ve been terribly affected by his belief system. Sheri Klouda, Karen Bullock, Wendy Norvelle, and a host of others who were in positions of leadership, but removed because of his belief system.

I agree with you. People should be able to think and believe freely in the SBC. However, when one’s belief system is harming others - particularly when it is unbliblical and anti-Christian, then I am compelled to do something.

Thanks for your comment.

Brandon Johnson said...

It is only unbiblical and anti-Christian in YOUR viewpoint. He can point to scripture supporting his views in the same way you likely can. The point is that he has held the belief that women should not hold leadership positions, and divorce is immoral, since he has had a public opinion about it. Yet that is exactly the issue you take with him... the point being, his beliefs were never a secret. They knew it when they appointed him, and they know it today.

If you like him, you have a funny way of showing it. Your points dont come from a position of neutrality, in fact they are rather suggestive that he is guilty of far worse than simply interpreting scripture wrong... yet without evidence.

For instance, you purport that he helped cover up crimes... yet he has not been found guilty of doing so, and there is no evidence of such. All the proof you have of your conclusion is a person saying they think he knew. That is not remaining objective...

Wade Burleson said...

Brandon,

My point of view doesn't harm women.

His does.

That's why it "seems" I'm not his friend. In reality, I have been consistently, clearly, and calculatingly writing about this issue for TWO DECADES.

:)

Ten years ago, nobody was listening.

Today, everybody's listening.

But the beauty of writing what I've written is I can genuinely say "From the beginning, I've advanced a BIBLICAL view of womanhood."

That means people cannot accuse me of getting on board with the #MeToo movement.

Nope. I've been on the #Jesus movement from day one.

bamamama said...

#Jesusalways

Brandon Johnson said...

His viewpoint doesn't harm women... it just doesn't promote them to leadership. That is not a harm, as no one has an intrinsic right to lead a church or a class. You may not agree with his biblical view, but his view IS based in biblical teachings. He has never actually harmed anyone... that is the issue. I'm not going to get into the "me too movement" as it is largely a farce. However, to pretend that there isnt a long history of allowing only men to teach, is even more so. Like I said, your entire issue with him can be boiled down to you not liking that he doesn't share your religious belief. So when the Southern Baptists split into two groups, one who believed women should be allowed to become leaders, and those that did not... you didn't go with the group that said they should, but you essentially stayed behind and instead lambasted the other group for not following along. You do realize the issue here, right? You are complaining that a group who doesn't believe women should have leadership positions, put a man in charge who shares in that belief. Wow... call the papers.

The ONLY reason this is a problem now is because we have entered into a politically correct hell hole in which no one is allowed to have dissenting views from public opinion.

I dont personally have an opinion on whether women should be allowed to have leadership roles, but I will defend Patterson's right to believe that... and the right of the SBA to believe that as well. You are going after this man for not sharing in your religious beliefs in a country where those rights are guaranteed. Now he has stepped down due to OUTSIDE pressure, not because the people in charge thought his views were wrong. Instead of convincing his supporters that their ways are in error, you and others have essentially galvanized their support behind him. So you did not further your position, in fact, you have only set it further behind.

The fundamental flaw in your actions is that you attacked the man, not his beliefs. If you believe that women should have leadership roles, make that argument, cite supporting scripture, and convince the masses. However, by attacking the man instead of his beliefs, you drew a line in the sand. None of his supporters will be open to your argument, instead they will attribute any differences you may have, with your personal feelings towards him. It also doesn't help that your argument is far from impartial. You cite allegations against him as fact, get major details wrong, and offer no biblical references to support your view and denounce his.

You are using ad hominem attacks in an attempt to discredit the man, not his beliefs... whether that is your intention or not. The issue is that attacks such as those shut down conversations, not start them.

You may very well be right about Patterson, but no one who remotely likes the guy will be persuaded by personal attacks. In other words, you are going about it in the worst way possible... and by repeating unverified and unsupported rumors, you are doing a disservice to your claims.

Victorious said...

If you believe that women should have leadership roles, make that argument, cite supporting scripture, and convince the masses.

Brandon, there are others, but off hand, I distinctly remember this one:

http://www.wadeburleson.org/search?q=Temple+of+Diana

You underestimate Wade....

Victorious said...

In fact, if you scroll down from the article above at the link I provided, you will find many more posts with scriptural evidence.

Wade Burleson said...

Brandon,

Victorious is correct. In the search bar of my blog (top, lefthand corner), type "Women" or "Christian Ministry" and a host of articles will be found where I've written extensively on the questions you raise and answer every possible objection. Read at your leisure.

Rex Ray said...

Brandon,

You said, “He has never actually harmed anyone.”

Are you a Rip Van Winkle in NOT knowing his lie to Dr. Klouda that caused her to sell her blood in caring for her invalid husband?

Over 100 long time missionaries left their calling because they would not sign his ‘man-made paper god; the BFM 2000. Fifteen were fired in one day.

My son was told he would not have to sign since he was ‘grandfathered’ in; that it was only required of new missionaries. Then he was told he wouldn’t be fired if he didn’t sign. Both were untruths.

Patterson had more success with his BFM than Nebuchadnezzar did with his golden image.

“Never actually harmed anyone.” DUH

Brandon Johnson said...

Really? He caused someone to sell their blood? Wow... that's like saying my ex-friend's former boss caused her to be a stripper, as that is what she resorted to after she was fired from a decent job. Instead of putting the responsibility for her actions on her shoulders, let's blame someone who actually had no control over them.

As far as the statement of faith, that doesn't equate to a "paper god". That wasnt held as some false idol, it was simply a signed statement on what you believe. This is VERY common in religious circles, and nearly universal in religious schools and missionary work. I can understand the ire directed at him for the rolls he thought women should hold... even though those rolls have their roots in scripture, AND it was this group who split with another on specifically this issue... but this makes you sound certifiable.

Brandon Johnson said...

The problem is that no one is going to search your site for the rest of what should be in this "article". You claim to hold no animosity towards him, yet you attack his character instead of your true issue... his beliefs. People are going to see that you claim he helped cover up sexual abuse, not that there isnt any evidence of it or that he wasn't charged or found guilty. You aren't just assassinating his character, you are alleging CRIMES. Yet you dont have the honesty to say alleged or claimed... you outright claim he did it, which is a lie, because it is impossible for you to know. The only people who know for sure what happened are those involved, and they are split on the story. So the truth is that people allege he did these things, but by claiming he is guilty of it, you circumvent the judge, jury, and execute him yourself.

You said your other posts where you've "written extensively on the questions you raise and answer every possible objection," I'd like to see the post where you point out your own dishonesty. Simply put, stating his guilt as fact is no more honest than claiming he has made sexual comments about a 16 year old girl. While both may have some truth to them, they leave out vital context. How hard would it be to admit that he is ACCUSED of covering up abuses, or that he made a comment about a 16 year old girl when he was playing the part of a similarly aged Male in one of his sermons. Instead, you make claims that fall apart under any scrutiny.

That's why this is a hit piece... regardless of the feelings you claim to have for him, you assert opinion as fact, you leave out vital information, and you do a disservice to anyone who happens upon your site.

I applaud your efforts to stand firm in your beliefs, even though I think you are holding a personal vendetta against him for what you perceive as past wrongs. There is a right way to go about this, and a wrong way... it is difficult to get more wrong than this. The right way would have been to approach the leadership about your concerns, addressed it biblically, debated them on the merits, and let the chips fall where they may. If you lose, then the organization may not be right for you. However, we live in a flawed environment where we simply cannot let people have their own beliefs and opinions, but we must force them to share ours. I know you will continue to believe that you did the right thing, but I'm not going to mount a campaign until someone shuts down your site or puts someone like minded in charge... that's ridiculous. Instead of trying to force an organization to see your way, you should have started your own to rival them... you could have even hired up all of the women he chose to not promote. Then you could have shut down his organization in the free market, as more churches decided to come to your way of thinking. Instead you decided to take the socialist route, where anyone who opposes your views is shut down.

We are supposed to be a country of competing ideas... where the best idea wins out. Not one where people are personally attacked for their beliefs, and shut down if enough people dislike them. There is a reason people keep pointing out that this did nothing to quell the beliefs inside the organization, because you went about it the wrong way. Instead of convincing people it was wrong, you chopped the head off the hydra.

If you aren't a part of the political left, you are a quick study... as this comes directly out of their playbook.

Rex Ray said...

Brandon,

Do you believe women should NOT teach men or have ANY authority over men? Will you answer yes or no?

If you say yes, then you agree with men that turned their backs on Billy Graham’s daughter when she was invited to speak.

Your reply about Dr. Klouda indicates you know nothing about her being ‘stabbed in the back’. My niece said all the students believed she was the best Hebrew teacher SWBTS ever had.

Knowing Patterson’s view of women, when he became President she asked him if she could depend on keeping her job. He said in words in effect, no problem. So, she bought a house close to the Seminary to make it easier to care for her invalid husband. Patterson fired her for one reason only: she was a woman. She lost the house and ran out of money

When she sued him for sex discrimination, he howled and moaned 1 Corinthians 6:1 “…how dare you file a lawsuit and ask a secular court to decide the matter instead of taking it to other believers.” (NLT)

She lost when a slick lawyer got SWBTS classified as a church. The judge threw her case out of court based on ‘separation of Church and State.

You said, “…statement of faith, that doesn’t equate to a paper god.”

The BFM 2000 and 1963 state: “Baptists cherish and defend religious liberty and deny the right of any secular or religious authority to IMPOSE a confession of faith upon a church or body of churches.”

“impose” means to force acceptance.

You might argue the word “church” doesn’t apply to individuals, but churches are people.

Yes, forcing people to sign a man made paper equates to a “paper god”.

Wade Burleson said...

Brandon,

You write, "I applaud your efforts to stand firm in your beliefs, even though I think you are holding a personal vendetta against him for what you perceive as past wrongs. There is a right way to go about this, and a wrong way... it is difficult to get more wrong than this."

I sure can appreciate your perspective.

Nobody, including me, can ever be 100% accurate about one's own motives. After reading your comment, I again asked myself (and the Lord) to reveal "any personal animosity" toward Paige Patterson. I think if you ask my wife, or if you ask those who know me well, they will tell you there is not only "none," I continually say "I really feel empathy for Dr. Patterson and do not wish to pile on." Then my friends - particularly my wife - will pull out dozens upon dozens of awful, heart-breaking stories (like Rex's spot on analysis of a woman who resorted to selling her blood because she was wrongly released) and will gently remind me, "Wade, all you've done is oppose unbiblical positions on women - and paid a heavy price for trying to protect the recipients of this unbiblical view."

All that to say, I can sure understand why you wish to continually go to my motive Brandon. From your perspective - and were I in your shoes with your filter - I might feel exactly the way you do about me.

All I can say is I am in my shoes, and I do not take lightly my responsibility to never go after a person's character but to only expose a person's behavior.

To some, that seems like a character assault.

To me, it seems like doing the right thing.

I would like for you to answer Rex's question above - "Do you believe women should NOT teach men or have ANY authority over men? Will you answer yes or no?"

Yes or No?