Saturday, June 26, 2021

This Christian and a Prophetic Warning via Politics

"I get why non-Christians care so much about politics (because their hope and fulfillment are attached to this world), but why are so many Christians so passionate about politics when their hope is supposed to be tied to eternity? When I read the Scriptures, I see that we are to pray for those in authority, but ultimately, we stay about the business of God’s Kingdom. I have my answers to this question, but I'm curious what your thoughts are?"
The question above is from a respected pastor in Oklahoma via Facebook. I wish to answer only for myself, not anyone else. 

I, too, am a pastor. I take a text from the Bible on Sunday and teach that text, showing how it applies to our lives. I speak to Christians. A few years ago, I asked that the American flag be removed from the auditorium because our Sundays are about Christ and His reign in our lives. On special occasions,  like Sunday, July 4, 2021, America's Independence Day, we will bring the American flag into the auditorium and sing the Star-Spangled Banner.  But Patriotism within our worship services is the exception, not the rule. 

However, some now wrongly believe that I am a more political pastor than I was a few years ago. I am not. What has happened, and I think that people have noticed, is that I have become a more prophetic pastor. I am speaking more to the lost, to those without Christ.  

Those without Christ don't like what the Bible declares. A person with no faith relationship in Christ does not want to hear about the sovereignty of God and His election of sinners for deliverance from their sins. No lost person has any interest in the glory and supremacy of God and His righteous reign in a Kingdom that will never end. No sinner wants to be told to give up his immorality because his good, kind, and benevolent Creator desires that sinners be transformed to live in a way that reflects God's character. 

The lost have no interest in God. The things of God are "foolish" to them  (Greek: moros). The word moros, translated as "foolish," is the Greek word from which we get our English word "moron."  

Americans think followers of Jesus the Messiah are morons. 

That's because most Americans are consumed with temporal pleasures. We Americans love our beautiful houses, our large retirement accounts, our travel vacations, and our newest gadgets and designer clothes. We Americans want to eat at the nicest restaurants, live this life to its fullest, and enjoy celebrating moments with friends at the most amazing parties.

Americans have no interest in God, and they especially don't like a pastor who tells them that their party is about to come crashing down. That is exactly what I am doing. This pastor has turned prophet and may sound more political, but I am only more prophetical. 

Politics is defined as "the activities associated with governance." All nations are political by their very nature. People everywhere are governed by others. The nation may be a Republic (like the United States), or a Communist State (like China), or ruled by a dictator or oligarchy of power (like Russia), or a conglomeration of socialist states (like Europe). But there is a truth that people from every nation must always recognize.
"Dominion belongs to the LORD and HE RULES over all the nations" (Psalm 22:28). 

When political leaders and people forget the LORD, He will bring down that nation to humble them.  

The prophet Daniel was called before the wicked King Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4 to interpret a dream. Daniel told the king what the dream meant. It was not a pleasant truth that King Nebuchadnezzar heard. From the prophet.  In essence, the prophet Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar that he was about to lose all his comforts. But then Daniel gives the reason for why the LORD had sent the prophet to convey the message to those who governed Babylon: 

"I give you this message so that the living may know that the LORD RULES in the affairs of men" (Daniel 4:17).
Like Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Habakkuk, and others, the PROPHETS of old warned the Hebrew STATE that the enemy was at the door. They told the rulers and the people that they were about to be destroyed and carried away into captivity because the Hebrews had turned their backs on Yahweh and gone after other gods. YAHWEH also promised to punish the destroyers (Assyria and Babylon), but He would first use these two nations to turn His people back toward righteousness. The people of God had ignored His Divine Law for too long. The prophets declared that God was sending the enemy nations to crush prosperous Jerusalem and Judah for their ultimate good. 

The Bible teaches that the destruction of a good economy, a prosperous way of life, and national security is  God's way to turn people back to Him. The LORD (Yahweh) sends a crushing national defeat 'for the good' of people who have turned from  God.  

Modern America is a great deal like ancient Israel. 

Americans have turned away from the LORD and have made the state, secularism, and science the Trinity of Humanity.
Hazen G. Werner, who served as a United Methodist bishop in Ohio, Hong Kong, and Taiwan, once said: 

"There is no more startling phenomenon in our day than the respectabilization of evil."

Likewise, the ancient Assyrians and the Babylonians were to Israel what modern China and Russia are to the United States. God is using communistic and/or dictator-led countries to humble Americans. War is coming. Destruction is coming. 

It will be ultimately good for Americans. 

We have already seen the decay in our society through the divisiveness of the communistic principles that educators have used to indoctrinate our children. Fifty-five years ago the communist dictator Russia’s Communist leader Nikita Khrushchev said, “We will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within....”

Communism has no god but the State. Communism has no moral code. For a communist to lie is as good as telling the truth if the GOAL of the advancement of the STATE is accomplished. For a communist to kill another human being is nothing. Just ask the hundreds of thousands that are now being massacred in Chinese concentration camps. In communism, good is evil, and evil is good. The only thing that matters is the State's advance. 

The first military strike against America will most likely be against our communication satellites. In 2007, the shot heard round the world was the newly invented Chinese space rocket that shot down unexpectedly a world weather satellite. The communists lied about it. The Obama Administration did nothing about it, and testing continued for the next decade. 150,000 pieces of metal, the debris of that first satellite shot down in 2007, now circles the earth in orbit, causing the U.S. military to redirect our communication satellites around the debris field. China is ready to shoot down all our satellites. 

China will first go after Taiwan. When the United States attempts to intervene, China's government will use that as their excuse to shoot down our satellites (they may even do this moments BEFORE they attack Taiwan). The Pearl Harbor of this generation will be the first strike against our communications, business, weather, and GPS guidance satellites which will plunge America into a world without the Internet. 

For China's CCP to accomplish its goal of world domination by 2049, America must not exist.

The tearing apart of American citizens by causing us to turn on one another via the creation of race, class, and cultural "divisions" is part of the strategy of the CCP. This strategy was used in Mao's destruction of the Republic of China in 1949, during the Cultural Revolution of 1966-1976 (also in China), and in the Marxist-Lenin Revolution of 1917 which brought down the Republic of Russia.

America needs the LORD. And God seems to be choosing to use the nation of China to humble Americans to turn to Him. It is not outside the realm of possibility that Covid-19 is part of China's military plan to crumble the United States (See the soon-to-be-released book by Australia's #1 investigative reporter What Really Happened in Wuhan?). 

I am acting as a prophet in 2021 to show Americans the very similar situation in our country to 723 B.C. in Israel (the Assyrians invaded and destroyed Israel in 722 B.C.), and to 587 B.C. in Judah (the Babylonians invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and Judah in 586 B.C.).

The Jews imprisoned the prophets, including Isaiah, Jeremiah, Habakkuk, and others because they did not want to hear the dire warnings. "Peace, peace in our time" was all they wanted their prophets to proclaim, but the prophets declared, "War and destruction are coming in your days because you have turned away from the LORD your God."

God is about to crush America for our good and His glory. The gospel of Jesus Christ and His Kingdom only has deep meaning to those people in despair. People in prosperity don't need the LORD. Lowly people, the LORD exalts. 

As Joan Rivers once said, "Why would I want to go to heaven when I have a house in the Hamptons?"

Americans think preachers belong in the church, separate from society. This prophet is speaking to society. 

It is politics that made marriage between two men legal. It is politics that made sodomy respectable. It is politics that legalized drug addiction. It is politics that demanded you call a boy a girl, and a girl a boy, and let people define gender, not God. It is politics that created a system where a citizen can receive money from the state rather than work for a living. It is politics that exalts the liar and punishes the truth-teller. It is politics that has caused the nation to ban prayer from schools, ban the Bible from classrooms, and ban morality from society. It is politics that has turned its back on God in education. It is politics in America that has created a pagan people

The LORD rules over America, China, Russia, and all the nations of the world. I am telling the people of America that our houses in the Hamptons are about to burn.  


Dennis Nunn said...

Wade, well said. Like you, I speak prophetically to God's people and our country. America is not Israel but Proverbs 14:34 and Psalm 9:17 are still true for us.

Wade Burleson said...

Thanks, Dennis.

"Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people.” (Proverbs 14:34).

New Living Translation

"The wicked will go down in destruction.
This is also the fate of all the nations who ignore God. (Psalm 9:17).

Lissa Roberson said...

Oh. My. Gosh.

My first thought was what this would mean to our military defense.

No communication satellites would mean no navigation capability for our fighter, bomber and air-refueling tanker forces to execute retaliatory strikes against either China or Russia.

My former career as a navigator on the KC-135 went the way of GPS years ago. Stewart, the former B-52 bombardier would have nobody to refuel the airplane for its long journey, nor a navigator on board to get the crew to their bombing zone. Their weapons would lack directional function to strike their targets.

This is assuming our military hasn't already been emasculated by the federal government. Absolutely chilling.

Celeste said...

I am not a theologian, in fact, I have spent the majority of my life calling myself a Christian, yet insecure in my belief and at some level, afraid of the church. Several years ago, I made a commitment to attend, found myself in an odd "non-denominational church where salvation was spoken yet the symbols of Christ (the cross) was almost never portrayed. I became more uncomfortable with that, so moved back to the denomination of my youth. I was just getting involved when.....Pandemic. The church closed.

At first that seemed right and good -- protect the vulnerable, but as two weeks turned to two months and it kept on and on.....I began to question. Is this what Christ would do?

As I questioned why the church was abandoning the congregation, the Body of Christ, I was told that in actuality "the lawyers" had suggested that the liability was too great to risk opening.

"The Pastor" of our local congregation put our an email that justified the continued closure....."we would all be devastated if we re-opened and one person got sick and died because of that. Uhhhhh, hate to inform you of this but members of your congregation are dying with the church doors closed. But I guess if we watch the video on FB, that is enough.

Now, we have the CDC pushing a vaccine on our children -- children you have minimal risk of becoming significantly ill and dying of the virus. An experimental vaccine that has not long term safety data and the rational -- to protect the elderly. Yet, the elderly have access to the vaccine. Yes, some people fully vaccinated have still died of COVID, but those numbers are tiny compared to the unknown risk of late term side effects of an untested vaccine. Is it not our duty to protect the children? Why has our society so easily thrown away our most precious resource? (We started throwing them away when we closed the schools, although with what is being taught in schools, that might have been God's plan.....still trying to understand that one).

Don't get me wrong -- I don't want grandma or grandpa or my mother to die.....yet the reality is that all of us are going to die. A long time ago, I made peace with dying of this virus. Thankfully, through the Grace of God, that hasn't happened. Through the Grace of God, I have taken a vaccine that will hopefully protect me and if I have some long term side effect, I believe that is, at some level, God's plan for my life. Yet, if I had a child, I would not put my child at risk.

So, my local church finally opened. The Pastor wears a yellow band -- a symbol that he is not comfortable with people being close.

I find all of this disturbing -- I am left with the same question asked differently, why are we all so afraid of dying when our hope is supposed to be for eternity? Why have we put our faith in The Science and The Technology, when our faith is supposed to be in God?

Perhaps, we need to get away from social media and get back to studying the Word and interacting with our community. (a little reference to your post prior to this one.....). I am thoroughly convinced that social media was used to manipulate and brain wash us to follow the odd unproven behaviors of the past year.

Celeste said...

I saw this on Facebook -- I have been unable to confirm that this is actually what happened, although the quote from Bonhoeffer, I can find in several places. The FB post is in single quotes, Bonhoeffer's words in double quote.

'Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the great German pastor, theologian, martyr, spy was asked in 1943 how it was possible for the Church to sit back and let Hitler seize absolute power. his firm answer: "It was the teaching of cheap grace."

"Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ."

We live in a time and culture that not only teaches cheap grace but praises it.'

Wade Burleson said...


Beautiful sentiments. Thank you for sharing.

Christiane said...

"Now I watched when The Lamb opened one of the seven seals . . .

7When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth. . . . "

(from Revelation, chapter 6)

Christiane said...

Rex Ray said...

Ahhhhhhhh; Politics

Let David’s psalm 109:8 be a prayer for Biden:

“Let his years be few; let someone else take his place.”

Christiane said...

Help for the Journey:

"I will lead the blind by a way they did not know; I will guide them on unfamiliar paths. I will turn darkness into light before them and rough places into level ground. These things I will do for them, and I will not forsake them."

(Isaiah 42:16)

Dave said...


It just occurred to me that this exaggerated form of Social Justice programming/inquisition (anti-white male) propaganda, in the Department of Defense to root-out a contrived threat of wide spread ideological extremist sects …is not merely a neo-Marxist movement coincidentally arriving on the scene, but may in reality be …according to God’s specific decree.

That a powerful delusion may have been provided by the Lord to accomplish his purposes within what we term as our ‘national security’.

Consideration of such a theory, strangely confers a small measure of comfort to me, as it provides a more palatable explanation for the well-orchestrated, multi-faceted program of sabotage we are presently witnessing.

Reassessing the foundation of the grand scheme being laid in light of your article, has me leaning toward the conclusion that it simply stretches the limits of credulity, to accept that Pentagon intelligentsia are truly exercising autonomy …establishing policy by human volition.

Would such a grand scale of professional ineptitude, strategic negligence and treachery alone, without a divinely intervening ‘veil of confusion’ supernaturally distorting reality …confounding the functions of reason and moral direction, best reflect Occam’s razor?

Christiane said...

Dave, are you speaking of Gen. Milley?

Christiane said...

I find our military leadership to be professional and well-educated.
And, like Gen. Milley, I would like to know the truth about what happened when the US Capitol was attacked by that mob on Jan. 6th. Our country deserves to know the truth.

As the 'crazy' grows crazier and the multitude of conspiracy theories run rampant, our country does need responsible leadership to organize 'independent' commissions to sort out what happened and why it happened.

Scott Shaver said...


Scott Shaver said...

Commissions accomplish nothing. Lawyers make money, media outlets make hay, and politicians cut side deals and kickbacks

Dave said...


I don’t know that I can concisely respond to your question, as my conclusions have been drawn over the span of a military career, of which I maintain passionate opinions, that are widely shared by my peers whom also retired from combat arms occupations.

Its not my intention to be sarcastic or coy, but how one answers this helps to postulate the dynamics in play: ‘One man’s patriot, is another man’s rebel freedom-fighter’. Was it an unforgivable act of lawless rebellion against the crown, that lead to what we now call ‘the United States’ or was it the pursuit of undeniable liberty and inalienable rights instead? Could a believer have in good conscience, fought in the ranks of either opposing force in 1776?

Wade Burleson said...


I appreciate your concerns about the crazy conspiracists.

My concerns are just as great about the secular statists.

It seems to me that if we had to choose between a person with Christian morals who believed the state was encroaching on individual liberty and the person with no ability to discern "right from wrong" in terms of God and His Law and ridiculed those with Christian morals, I think we both would most likely err by siding with the former.


Some prescient thoughts. I have known you for decades, and you never say anything, write anything, or think anything without thoughtful reflection.

Blessings to you both!

Dave said...


Providentially, Iv'e just discovered yet another kindred soul whom has eloquently delineated the crisis in our midst. Drifting unmoored from the critical foundations of God and Country, as defined by (formerly) cherished doctrine: the Bible, Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

LTC (retired) Allen West; has done a commendable job of enumerating the insidious ideological grievances, and the polarizing, destructive effect they have wreaked in their wake.

This man champions many of the values I hold dear, yet it is essential to emphasize that the myriad symptoms of civil unrest afflicting our social fabric ...cannot be mischaracterized and dismissively termed as merely 'colliding world-views or partisan politics', but are instead manifestations of a terminal spiritual illness, in which the condition of our nation could be described as 'grave, and on life support', with prognosis for recovery ...poor.

Rex Ray said...

I want to repent!

Right now, applying David’s psalm 108:8 to replace Biden, would be Harris taking his place, and that would mean America going from the frying pan into the fire.


I checked the link you referenced. It was for a good cause. I stopped where it said, “Sign now”

The bottom line on most of the ‘Good Causes’ I’ve seen have a catch; they want money.

Christiane said...

Dave, thank you for responding. Thank you for your military service.

Hello WADE,
I do believe we need to examine 'what happened' on Jan.6th at the Capitol and to do this publicly and fairly before we can go forward as a country in a good direction.

I wish I understood more about your concerns, this:
"My concerns are just as great about the secular statists.

It seems to me that if we had to choose between a person with Christian morals who believed the state was encroaching on individual liberty and the person with no ability to discern "right from wrong" in terms of God and His Law and ridiculed those with Christian morals, I think we both would most likely err by siding with the former."

What concerns me is the concept of 'erring by siding with'. I am always one for wanting 'dialogue' that is civil and respectful where 'sides' (tribes, if you will) come to table and meet in good faith. I still believe this country is capable of getting past partisan issues to work for what is best for the whole country, but I do know one thing:
history will not look kindly on a nation which refuses to examine how its Capitol was attacked, especially when there is the recorded video and sound evidence for all to see, and there are dead to be mourned and Capitol police who were injured, some maimed for life, who suffered.

As for Christians being concerned that they suffer disrespect, this I also try to understand, but I cannot. I recall your words of comment from another of your posts, these:

". . . We are definitely a secular country and/or government today, and I'm not sure that's necessarily a "bad" thing in terms of the Kingdom.

Christianity has always flourished under oppressive governments because the message of Christianity - love, forgiveness, and service - resonates with repressed people.

Fri Jun 29, 11:27:00 AM 2018"

WADE, we Christians over millennia have known from Christ's example, this:
the ONLY Person Who ever deserved to be raised up on a pedestal, chose the Cross instead.

WADE, I allow for the times to change our views, yes, but that image of the Crucified Christ is central to our witness as Christian people. So there is a lot that I am not understanding about today's political involvement of people of faith. I am not a proud person, so I am open to listening and trying to understand, yes. It's not about 'disagreement', no. It's about wanting for good to come for all concerned, and how best that can happen.

God Bless!

Christiane said...

Dear people, please pray for those families in Florida who have lost loved ones in the collapse of that condominium, that they be supported and cared for and comforted in their grieving. So much suffering . . . God have mercy!

Scott Shaver said...

One one word answer Christianne:


Scott Shaver said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dave said...

Rex ray,

I absolutely understand your well justified cynicism, Sir!

Although, in this circumstance I genuinely believe what’s driving the request for signatures, is construction of a verifiable petition composed of a like-minded, concerned constituency …to be presented to the elected Armed Forces Committee members, DoD policymakers and Pentagon brass. Voluntary transparency of this nature, I think demonstrates in ‘good faith’, a clear distinction from the scandal of unpurged voter rolls, that many districts didn’t turn attention to …until post-inauguration.

Solicitation of monetary support will usually trigger red flags in all of us, but I think we each make exceptions. For example: If it became known to us …that operational costs to host an internet forum we frequented, were unexpectedly exceeding budget and creating hardships, I think the love of God would constrain us to pitch-in to offer relief.

Tom said...

Hello Wade,

You say that you are acting like a prophet, foretelling what is to come, but for me in your rhetoric I find a lack of understanding of the cause and outcome of the unfolding circumstances that many nations find themselves in presently around the world.

Jer 51:14 best describes what is happening in the USA and the other 19 nations that formed the Coalition of the Willing that invaded Iraq, i.e. the land of Babylon, and God had foretolds us what the resulting actions of the Coalition of the Willing would be here: -

Jer 51:13-14: -
O you who dwell by many waters,
Abundant in treasures,
Your end has come,
The measure of your covetousness.
The Lord of hosts has sworn by Himself:
"Surely I will fill you with men, as with locusts,
And they shall lift up a shout against you."

Why did this happen? Because the Coalition of the Willing tried to heal the land of Babylon. A few verses back we are told that this is the main reason for what we are suffering at present: -

Jer 51:9-10: - We would have healed Babylon,
But she is not healed.
Forsake her, and let us go everyone to his own country;
For her judgment reaches to heaven and is lifted up to the skies.

The Lord has revealed our righteousness.
Come and let us declare in Zion the work of the Lord our God.

Why did this happen? Because the leaders of our respective nations chose to act God like in the things that they chose to do over many years and in particular in retaliation to the events, foretold in Rev 16:12-16,≈ of which 9/11 was a sign for all of the world to see that would begin the drawing of all of the nations to assemble for the judgement of the Gentiles at Armageddon.

We know from history that the Greeks devasted and desolated Babylon ≈ 150 BC and as Rev 16:17-21 foretold us, during the 20 centaury of great turmoil and wars, that Babylon would be remembered once more before God for the receiving of His great wrath, and that Jerusalem would be partitioned into three districts, where the first happened in 1926 and the later in 1948.

Where are we in history? Coming to the end of the 2300 years of the time of the Gentiles, and their judgement, of which our respective nations will be joining other nations at Armageddon, after which, all of Israel will be saved.

What is needed in our respective nations? Repentance of our God like acts, in the things that we chose respectively to do with great fanfare, in which all the people of our respective nations chose to give consent to do. Out of the primary sin of acting God like, manifested sins flowed and these, we can identify,to confirms that we, in our respective nations, have turned away from God.

Wade, if you want to be a prophet to your nation, then warn them that if they continue to act God like, that the punishment will be far greater than the present punishment of attempting to heal Babylon and that the only acceptable response to remove the coming punishment, associated with the second death, is for the nation to sincerely repent of their primary sin of acting God like. Our respective repentance of the primary sin will cause all of the manifested sins to disappear as God sprinkles us with cleansing water because we have repented.

Presently, our respective unrighteousness is on display.


Dave said...


I hope that the ‘thought exercise’ on perspectives and the resultant moral judgments assigned to any particular armed force (and its opposition), was helpful in some way. If a form of journalism as we know it, had be in existence when Cain slew Able, I’m pretty confident there would have been multiple narratives competing for public attention / acknowledgement.

I agree with your desire to see an exhaustive investigation of the activities by ALL parties on 6 January. However, I seriously doubt that EVERYONE in our nation really wants the truth about the Capital riot (or anything else, that represents traditionally held values)

The public at large, CLAIMS to value truth. (with certain qualifications) …but only IF the facts correspond with their preferred narrative (agenda). This idiosyncrasy of ‘confirmation bias’ is the cognitive short-cut’ all humans frequently apply in our lives to deal with vast information overload. Wade illustrated this aptly,

‘It is politics that made sodomy respectable.’ Absolutely.

The AMA has promptly revoked the medical licensure credentials allowing physicians to practice, (making examples of such persons) …for revealing the TRUTH about the extraordinarily high infection rate of STD, AIDS and attempted suicide amongst homosexual males. They are forbidden to speak freely of the overwhelming physiological evidences proving the severe health impact of ‘lifestyle risk factors’.

Dr. Jonathan Sarfati could certainly bear witness to the extreme censorship and industry black-listing, running rife within the (purportedly) unbiased field of scientific research. The Scientific Industrial Complex, only wants to see the ‘VERSION of the truth’ that allegedly lends support to a non-theistic Evolutionary theory.

The Bell Curve demonstrated that qualitative cognitive ability differences exist amongst ethnic populations, specifically noting that Asians (which I am not) …consistently score highest of all demographics, with a notably superior intelligence quotient. Any reference of that TRUTH today, …is no longer ‘palatable’ decades later.

This INCONVENIENT TRUTH is why the Asian demographic, has since been excluded from POC (people of color) category. Their superior performance severely dilutes socio-political sentiment, as it dramatically conflicts with the established narrative of discrimination-incurred underprivilege.

It was political pressure (not by the FACTS research concluded in the field of Medicine), that caused the DSM referenced by practitioners of Behavioral Science to treat psychological disorders, to DE-classify homosexual behavior as a deviant, psychological disorder.

‘It is politics that demanded you call a boy a girl, and a girl a boy, and let people define gender, not God.’ Absolutely. I have read several articles recently, of medical professionals being CANCELLED… publicly censured and forced to resign positions for daring to reference the physiological TRUTH that DNA and chromosomes reveal.

Maybe you’re aware of the NOAA (National Oceanographic Atmospheric Association) and the curious circumstances surrounding their ‘RE-assessment’ of historical world wide climate trend calculations. After failing to generate statistics that roughly corresponded with what OTHER climate science research bodies had rendered …they were oddly compelled to revisit their own studies … and surprisingly, the second time around, their data THEN supported the prevailing theory of man-made climate change.

I think it is only God’s word that can shatter our selfish pride, drive us in humble desperation to our knees …seeking deliverance from the horrific stain of sin, and compel us to finally let go of our ‘conditions, qualifications and versions’ of truth.

Christiane said...

Hello Dave,

thank you for sharing your thoughts

I agree that the 'truth' about the attack on the Capitol might not be welcomed in all sectors, but I still think we NEED to know what happened . . . what Gen. Milley said about 'wanting to understand about white rage' is something I had not thought about,
but I have heard mentioned concern about people on the right wanting to 'preserve Western civilization' which I took to mean that our nation historically had a majority of caucasian (white) inhabitants, and that now this is beginning to pass as we (some of us) welcome new immigrants from other lands and races who are not of 'white, Anglo-Saxon Protestantism', and the 'culture' is rapidly changing, too fast for some, not quickly enough for others. That seems to be a 'given', this fearfulness of a higher percentage of people of color in our nation.

As for what happened on Jan 6th, it was obvious that many who attacked the Capitol thought a wrong had been done and 'the election had been stolen', but since we are a nation of laws, no court in the land would take the 'words' of the disappointed, and no proper 'evidence' was offered to the courts by those who claimed there had been 'fraud'.

I suppose Nancy Pelosi will go ahead and organize some kind of 'commission' but she and the whole know that without Republican input and participation, this will not satisfy the nation's need to have confidence in what is uncovered.
I'm not sure what is to be done, but sooner or later, the truth must come out.
We must be able to find a number of people in our land who love their country enough to serve on such a commission and who can follow the Constitution and the law in how evidence is presented and reviewed.

We are on the edge of our nation's July 4th celebration. My mother's family descends from an 'Ancient Planter' named Thomas Gray who arrived in Jamestown in 1608. My father's family immigrated to this country when my father was five years old. So the family history is respendant is myths, legends, stories, Civil War history, historical letters, a family home that bears the scars of war in Plymouth NC called the Ausbon House. But I'm 'American' and to not want to know the full truth of what led to Jan 6th would be for me, un-American. Unpleasant or not, I know about my own family's history, and I bear the DNA of this family in my genetics. It's important that our nation know 'who we are as a people . . . 'from many, one'.
Better to know. Even that which is painful to learn.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. God Bless!

Scott Shaver said...


Have you wver considered that the illegal immigration issue might be more about aheer numbers (as compared to a century ago), economic threats, organized cartwl crime, child slavery, sexual abuse/slavery, proliferation of deadly drug imports and a lawless border more than it is about race or ethnicity.

Not only do you appear a century and a half "behind the times", your focus is solely on the "white devil".

Do you reject any idea of total depravity or does that just apply to Caucasians in your view?

Scott Shaver said...

The "truth"about Jan 6 will be known right about the time Hillary Clinton and Hunter Biden are indicted. Perhaps when Maxine Waters is tossed from congress for inciting to riot and calling for violent confrontation.

Scott Shaver said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rex Ray said...

Found this:

Rex Ray said...
I heard this ‘story’:
Based on Christians having Easter and Jews having Passover Holy Days, Atheists sued for their recognition day.
The judge quoted Psalm 14:1 – “The fool says in his heart, there is no God.”
He threw the case out of court because Atheists already had their day – April 1.
9/4/10 12:47 AM

Paul Burleson said...
Now that is one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time. Good stuff Rex.

Rex Ray said...


Fact Check: Were Rioters at the Capitol Antifa Members in Disguise as Gaetz says? (

Software company XRVision used facial recognition technology to prove rioters were linked to an antifa website.

Jake Angeli was featured in many photographs inside the Capitol wearing a fur hat with horns and his face painted red, white and blue.
Newsweek debunked the claim that Angeli was part of antifa. He is a known QAnon supporter referred to as Q Shaman or QAnon Shaman.

The Washington Times ran a story January 6 claiming that a retired military officer said a software firm XRVision used facial recognition to match two men inside the Senate to Philly Antifa members.

The image is from a page on the Philly Antifa website that identifies the man on the left as Jason Tankersley and the man on the right as Matthew Heimbach. The caption reads: Tankersley (l) with Traditionalist Worker's Party leader (now of the National Socialist Movement) Matthew Heimbach and Keystone State Skinheads co-founder Steve Smith.

The page flags Tankersley as a neo-Nazi and details his involvement in groups such as Maryland Skinheads.

The article also stated that one of the men "has a tattoo that indicates he is a Stalinist sympathizer."

"Shortly after the rioting started, XRVision performed an analysis on the footage and identified several individuals. This information was shared with LEA. We concluded that two of individuals [Jason Tankersley and Matthew Heimbach] were affiliated with the Maryland Skinheads and the National Socialist Movements. These two are known Nazi organizations, they are not Antifa.

A congressman was warned by Capitol police on January 5 that "that intelligence suggested fascist ANTIFA was going to try to infiltrate the Trump rally by dressing like Trump supporters."

Other videos were shared, allegedly showing antifa members trying to break a window into the Capitol Building while a crowd of Trump supporters booed and yelled "no antifa."

Dave said...


I see it much the same way;

‘the illegal immigration issue might be more about aheer numbers (as compared to a century ago), economic threats, organized cartwl crime, child slavery, sexual abuse/slavery, proliferation of deadly drug imports and a lawless border more than it is about race or ethnicity.’

Although I sometimes forget how much scripture exhorts us to demonstrate merciful compassion to the ‘alien living amongst you’, and reminds us that BECAUSE God’s chosen people had been liberated after their suffering of 430 years of cruel slavery as non-native ALIENS whom sought famine relief in Egypt …we are to likewise, reciprocate in merciful, loving kindness.

As a grateful ex-California resident, I have long suspected that ignoring the illegal border crossings …and the cartel-related bribery, human trafficking and drug trade, was all about keeping the state’s population density very high …to legally warrant increased political representation on the hill. The disease-infested, drug fueled squalor known as ‘urban homeless encampments’ frequently seen in the Bay Area and Southern CA, continue to expand in all directions. A needless human tragedy and an embarrassment for the state’s failed Democratic policy.

Dave said...

Rex Ray,

Yes, the double standards abound concerning that incident.

It’s amazing how quickly the ‘blind eye’ of indifference the Democrats cast towards a years worth of murder and destruction wreaked in cities by BLM & ANTIFA “peaceful protesters” …abruptly turned into vigilant, grave concerns on 6 January.

Also tragically amusing to watch, has been all the communities whom had reflexively jumped aboard the DE-FUND the Police train …only to have quietly eaten their words, and reinstated generous budget allotments for law enforcement.

Of course, that sudden resumption of sanity is no recompense to the grieving families of the slain, or bankrupt business owners whom were forced to helplessly stand by watching their businesses and life-savings burn to the ground, courtesy of the permission to commit acts of lawlessness, liberal politicians had granted to BLM & ANTIFA.

Dave said...


Regarding your comment: ‘people on the right wanting to 'preserve Western civilization' which I took to mean that our nation historically had a majority of caucasians’…

True. Without a doubt, I do see acts of hatred perpetrated by individuals (unrestrained by the indwelling Spirit), whom harbor wicked racial and ethnic prejudices. Unsurprisingly, I have met unbelievers, (mostly, Caucasian males) that amongst other sinful attitudes/behaviors …did express fear and insecurity of the disproportionately shifting demographic changes, you referenced General Milley speaking of.

I don’t know all that Gen. Milley’s speech contained …but if he is a born again Christian, he could have saved a great deal of time by simply ‘cutting to the chase’ and getting to the bottom line concerning the sinful acts of the unredeemed: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.’

Publicly speaking TRUTH of this magnitude, comes from those whom know persecution …rather than from those whom know palatial levels of power, privilege and prosperity. If the pampered assembly of like-minded politicians, DoD appointees and Pentagon brass, alleged to be so concerned with ‘extremist activity’ within the ranks, actually possessed Spirit-imbued discernment …they would recognize that throwing money at compulsory ‘marxism based anti-racist re-education’, is an utterly futile, human effort.

Furthermore, these officials sworn to protect the foundational principles of this republic …would recognize this virtue-posturing misadventure is diverting critical resources from the vital COMBAT-TRAINING required to defend our nation, and it’s foreign interests.

They would understand that only through the transforming work of spiritual rebirth, (divine heart transplant) can mankind’s behavior be changed. Were they able to comprehend these TRUTHS, they would lose no time drafting legislation to unconditionally restore historic freedoms that protect against violations of moral conscience, and free expression and practice of the Christian faith, to the exclusion of all others.

To our national shame (given the Lord delays His return) …it seems unlikely our generation could see this happen.

‘Better to know. Even that which is painful to learn.’ Agreed, Christiane …especially when mounting evidence appears to suggest that our nation has been ‘SOLD OUT’ to China!

Christiane said...


My thought is that we came very close to selling the honor of our serving troops out for the dictator of Turkey and for Putin. When? The command was given from the top to ABANDON our allies, the Kurds, in the field and leave them behind for the Turks to slaughter.

I think about that a lot, how the concept of 'honor' was attacked and, if you have served in the military, you know that the concept of 'honor' is a part of the American soul. Oh, we betray it, yes, but we suffer when we do the loss of something that cannot be bought or sold, that cannot be a part of some kind of international political 'transaction' without bringing dishonor on our nation.

I still feel badly for those American troops who were told to abandon their friends, the Kurds. They KNEW it was dishonorable. They KNEW.

Today I heard that we are going to save our allies who helped us in Afghanistan by evacuating them to safety, perhaps to Guam, and then to help process their status as what to do next for them. THIS is not 'selling out' to anyone. THIS is an honorable act of caring for those Afghans who cared for our troops in the field.

Times have changed. Just with news, I think our government has INCREASED the security of our troops who serve in foreign fields. I am grateful for this news.

I guess we all have our definitions of 'selling out'. It seems we do. But sometimes the 'contrasts' speak for themselves and we stand and watch and see for ourselves when those who have served our troops are saved instead of abandoned to slaughter.

Christiane said...

I'm now connected to mainland China and to the Baltic nation of Latvia, a former holding of the old USSR. My son is engaged to a lady from Latvia who was a child when the Russians ran her country. She speaks Russian fluently. Her mother's people were Russian, and her mother had married a Latvian engineering professor in Riga. She also speaks German and Latvian and English.

My nephew has married a lady from mainland China that he met at university. Her mother-tongue is Mandarin Chinese. They were wed in this country first and then had a traditional Chinese wedding in her homeland.
This is their picture at the traditional wedding:

So my family offers me an opportunity to know from those that many of my countrymen may find 'fearful' or hold 'in contempt'. The world grows smaller for me. Boundaries have been crossed. Understanding and learning have had a chance to grow. Human ties at the personal level offer us some opportunity to get beyond the prejudices that divisions and the resulting fearfulness have heightened.

We are ALL made in the Imago Dei, we have the breath of life breathed into us by our Creator, and we are all formed from the same elements of the Earth. When Our Lord was incarnated, He took our entire humanity to Himself in order to be able to heal it. Our 'humanity' is now forever connected to Christ, the Giver of Life. It's satan who is known as 'the divider'. That's important to know.

Scott Shaver said...


Having a relative marry a lady from mainland China puts you in better touch with that nation than your countrymen?

How? Pray tell, does that work?

Scott Shaver said...


Answer this, if you will.

I find you practically automatic in your many references to the imago dei.

We know that you are Roman Catholic. Are you connected to the "Imago Dei" faction within the RCC?

Scott Shaver said...

I suspect Christianne's view of the Imago Dei, under the spotlight, may prove to be more humanly metaphysical in substance than Logos-based or scripturally defined in the end.

There is a sect which rides the coat tails of "Imago Dei" theology straight into the dark abyss of metaphysical chaos๐Ÿ˜Ž

Scott Shaver said...

All may possess the "Imago Dei" Christianne, which means they have only the POTENTIAL to apprehend eternal truth and justice.

Most human POTENTIAL is NEVER realized, save the potential for DEPRAVITY and DEPARTURE from eternal truth and justice.

So what good is ANY theology of the Imago Dei? Jesus said "you must be born again".

Only way the Imago Dei can be effectively quickened to even start receiving eternal truth.

Beyond that, "Imago Dei" is just another theological term for a nuanced area of biblical interpretation.

What card's in your wallet?

RB Kuter said...


Wade, I totally agree with your portrayal of how God has consistently responded to the wickedness and rebellion of "His people" by turning away and allowing their enemies to be used as instruments of judgment and corrective action. The repentance and return of God's people eventually occurred even if it took a generation or correction.

HOWEVER, I tend to disagree that we are witnessing a recurrence of God's "corrective" action. Instead, I interpret contemporary circumstances as taking place during the final, concluding chapters of the Church Age as we progress toward the "global" domination of the Anti-Christ.


1. The United States is not Israel. It by no means is equivalent to Israel in its strategic place in God's providential plan. It is no where close to being compared to "The Zion" of God's eternal plan. Today it is merely a portion of this world's society. I believe our tendency is to over-state/assess the importance of the United States and its relevance to God's eternal Plan. It is merely the "Moab/Edom/Ammon" equivalent of those surrounding Zion.

2. We are not observing simply "a nation" in need of correction. The United States is merely one player in the midst of an entire planet of wicked, corrupt, decadent, societies that have deteriorated to the point of rottenness with the despicable odor of spiritual decay. It is no better or worse than the rest. We have arrived to the point of "humanity" approaching a point of being enslaved and dominated by global rule. There are power players in this United States that have been very active in bringing about this "globalization" for decades. Today we are witnessing a return to that emphasis.

3. The unprecedented corruption and defilement taking place today is without exception being done on a global scale. The resulting judgement is now taking place in the form of "all presence of righteousness and Godliness being trampled down to the point of having little to no influence in this world". It sets the stage for the entry of an unchallenged, powerful, ruling "savior" who promises rescue and salvation from the resulting chaos and global turmoil; a false Messiah with charisma, attractiveness and power yet who is the antithesis of God's holiness and righteousness.

4. The "Church" itself has been influenced and enchanted by the glitter and shiny facade of the world's enticing, sickening, "Siren's Song" of "inclusiveness, unconditional love, unbridled freedom of behavior, and non-prohibited, unaccountable, liberty to a level never seen since the ascension of Christ. It is turning "rainbow color", accepting of mass murder of infants, promotion of un-Godly unions in marital unions, expression of opposition to the concept of exclusiveness of those washed in the blood of the crucified Christ as being the redeemed of God. The "Church" has reached an unprecedented level of decadence to the point of becoming unrecognizable as the true "Bride of Christ" standing sanctified and apart as the "salt and light" of the world.

A "remnant" remains as its core, but the surrounding, hypocritical, disingenuous, layers are being rapidly stripped away by rot and the relentless, impeding blight of the world's influence and sin.

5. This is not "The End", but the beginning of The End with the stage being set on a global scale that will not see a reversal until the subsequent rule of the Anti-Christ and his ultimate defeat at the return of Christ. Subsequent events must take place prior to that but the acceleration toward that rule is certainly being displayed by each day's events.

I see these as being the "signs of the seasons". No "revival", only continued spread of the virus of decadence to the point of reaching at time of razing with the conclusion of this Age.

Christiane said...

For those who are worried and fearful, remember:
As we have been told,
'Fear not'
Thanks be to God.

" 27 Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you.
I do not give to you as the world gives.
Do not let your hearts be troubled; do not be afraid."
(from the Holy Gospel of St. John, chapter 14)

"Be still my soul my God doth undertake
To guide the future as He has the past.
Thy hope, thy confidence let nothing shake.
All now mysterious shall be bright at last.
Be still my soul. The waves and winds still know
His voice who ruled them while He dwelt below."

"O Lord, make haste and illumine the night. Say to my soul that nothing happens without You permitting it, and that nothing of what You permit is without comfort. O Jesus, Son of God, You Who were silent in the presence of Your accusers, restrain my tongue until I find what I should say and how to say it. Show me the way and make me ready to follow it. It is dangerous to delay, yet perilous to go forward. Answer my petition and show me the way. As the wounded go to the doctor in search of aid, so do I come to You. O Lord, give Your peace to my heart. Amen."
(Brigitta of Sweden)

"My soul is at peace, for long ago I ceased to belong to myself!"
(Therese of Lisieux)

'Be not afraid' was said to people of good will on Earth.
We may remember this when we feel overwhelmed with concerns,
we who remember this will give thanks to Him Who sustains us in life from moment to moment.
The Lord of Life: the Crucified One has 'overcome the world'
and He is Risen from the dead. We may take comfort in this. :)

RB Kuter said...

Christiane, do you interpret Wade's prophecy that the US is on the verge of reaping God's judgment as a means for correction as being an expression of fear? Just wondering if that might have generated your words meant to comfort saying "do not fear".

Christiane said...

Hello Mr. Kuter,
I don't understand your meaning. Can you clarify please? Thanks.

Christiane said...

Mr. Kuter,
I was thinking that the Good Lord has a way of healing that goes far deeper than the 'presenting problems' of people who are acting out in negative ways. For many of them, there is an underlying pain which only the Holy Spirit can reach and heal, for such people to be able to get a handle on their negative behaviors, and that's where the Church comes in, by pointing them to Christ the Great Physician. I don't see a time-limit on God's great mercy for His creatures who are wounded, no. But people of pride will reap what they have sown and that itself can be a form of 'mercy' we cannot fully understand. None of us get through this life without 'trials' and difficulties, but we are not to lose hope.
There is a parable where Christ teaches us not to see ourselves as 'the righteous' looking down on 'the lost' and this parable gives us the only 'sinner's prayer' that makes sense to me: 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner'.

In his great mercy, He cares for His creatures, Mr. Kuter. Even for the lost, may especially for the 'lost'. :) He does not abandon His creatures.

Scott Shaver said...

The "only sinners prayer that makes sense" telling IMO.

Rex Ray said...

New story.

After sleeping in foxholes many weeks, they found a barn with hay. It felt so good, they slept like dead men. Dad had asked his assistant many times to shave off his ‘Hitler’s mustache, and the others resented him not obeying. (I’ll name the assistant “M”)

There was a chicken house close by with fresh ‘stuff’. When “M” went to sleep, they smeared his mustache really good. When “M” woke up, they started talking how bad the barn smelled, but were disappointed that “M” didn’t say anything.

They laughed their heads off when “M” went outside and said, “The whole blankly blank world stinks.” (He shaved it off.)

Christiane said...

Great story, REX RAY. :)

Scott Shaver said...


Do you believe that God wiil ultimately save ALL souls?

Christiane said...

Dear People, please pray for the families of the victims of the condominium collapse in Florida. God have mercy.

Heaven's never-ending 'thrice Holy' prayer (the Trisagion)

"'I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up. Above Him stood the seraphim. And one cried to another, and said, Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of His glory.'

'And the four living creatures, they have no rest day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God, the Almighty, which was, and which is, and which is to come.'

The thrice holy prayer used in worship:

'Holy God, Holy and Mighty, Holy and Immortal, have mercy on us."

'Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty'

Scott Shaver said...


Scott Shaver said...


RB Kuter said...

Christiane, to clarify my question to you asking if you interpret Wade's prophecy of impending, corrective, doom upon the US due to its decadent behavior as an expression of "fear", I was responding to your response saying:
"For those who are worried and fearful, remember:
As we have been told,
'Fear not'
Thanks be to God."

It sounded to me that you were interpreting Wade's comments as being fearful, or negative, in that it predicted doom and judgment on the wicked. My response was by no means at the high level of Wade's proposal but was along similar lines in saying that I too believe that we are in the midst of a spiraling descent into the abyss of sin and decadence and I also anticipate the heavy judgement of God in the imminent future. I differ, perhaps, from Wade's proposal in my not interpreting events of today as eliciting God's "corrective", judgmental, response but rather as being "the end" that precedes the introduction to "The Great Tribulation" and the global rule of the "Anti-Christ".

So I was thinking that your response might indicate that you see both of those proposals as being a display of fear, defeat, and ultimate pessimism. Of course, in both scenarios we anticipate the ultimate victory of the Sovereign God's display of HIS control over ALL and the defeat of wickedness and those that deliberately and consciously rebel and defy God.

Hope that attempt at "clarifying" didn't just muddle the issue instead.

Scott Shaver said...

She is avoiding any and all questions which probe at her theological orientation. My bet is on a metaphysical, almost gnostic approach which focuses singularly on various perceived implications of her ilk with regard to the Imago Dei (image of god).

Can tease out in the extreme to some pretty bizarre and disjointed stuff. IMO.

Scott Shaver said...

And her resistance to answering suxh honest questions, especially in Wade's forum, leaves me personally with some REAL questions regarding her oft repeated rhetoric about "people of good will" and "honest questions".

Scott Shaver said...

I would not fall for Christianne's "please clarify" schtick. She knows what you're asking.๐Ÿ˜‚

Christiane said...

Hello Mr. Kuter.

Thanks for responding.
Because I come from a different faith tradition, this is not translating to me as it might to someone who is of the fundamenalist-evangelical tradition:

"we anticipate the ultimate victory of the Sovereign God's display of HIS control over ALL and the defeat of wickedness and those that deliberately and consciously rebel and defy God."

I see God more in terms of healing and repairing and renewing in this world.
I see Christian people more in the roles of servants in a world where suffering is. There is a prophet in the Old Testament whose Book by some has been called 'the fifth Gospel' and he wrote of 'the defeat of wickedness' using a whole different imagery, as is found in the Book of Isaiah, chapter 58.

But Wade, whom I cannot speak for, may be referring to the kind of mercy that comes to us from God in the form of trials that are given to us all in order to help heal THE DEEPER PAIN we all carry that sometimes 'acts out' in negative and sinful ways.

Flannery O'Connor wrote about this kind of 'mercy':
“He felt his hunger no longer as a pain but as a tide. He felt it rising in himself through time and darkness, rising through the centuries, and he knew that it rose in a line of men whose lives were chosen to sustain it, who would wander in the world, strangers from that violent country where the silence is never broken except to shout the truth. He felt it building from the blood of Abel to his own, rising and spreading in the night, a red-gold tree of fire ascended as if it would consume the darkness in one tremendous burst of flame. The boy’s breath went out to meet it. He knew that this was the fire that had encircled Daniel, that had raised Elijah from the earth, that had spoken to Moses and would in the instant speak to him. He threw himself to the ground and with his face against the dirt of the grave, he heard the command. GO WARN THE CHILDREN OF GOD OF THE TERRIBLE SPEED OF MERCY. The words were as silent as seed opening one at a time in his blood.”
( Flannery O'Connor, The Violent Bear It Away )

Scott Shaver said...

Crickets, crickets, crickets.

Scott Shaver said...

And there you have it. Thank you Christianne.๐Ÿ‘

Scott Shaver said...

Now you know why you and I and the radical reformers turned out Anabaptist and even Southern Baptist. The RCC will NEVER work for us. Is what it is.

Scott Shaver said...

"Ye must be born again"๐Ÿ˜Ž

Scott Shaver said...

"The natural man knows not the things of God"......?

Rex Ray said...


New story; not funny.

One day Dad’s assistant wanted to stay in his foxhole and sleep. Dad told him everyone should eat breakfast, and made him get up and eat. A few minutes later, a German shell blew his assistant’s Bible to pieces. It was under his pillow.

Christiane said...


that's a vivid description of a war story for sure

Providence has a pattern unlike 'co-incidences'.

It's a good story, when you realize that Providence took care of your father's assistant and that your father was part of God's plan

Christiane said...


I don't know if you have seen the film 'Rules of Engagement' with Tommy Lee Jones, but if it comes your way, you might like it. It's about the USMarine Corps. I give it high marks.

Rex Ray said...


If you liked that story, here’s another one.

Germans knew the road Americans would travel. From many miles away, they fired their shells that exploded on impact on a sharp curve where the convoy had to drive slow.

Their plan worked until it was Dad’s turn. He drove across a field marked with mine-warnings. His assistant yelled, “You’re going to get us killed.”

Dad yelled back, “Germans may have put the signs up.” After they made it, the convoy followed them while shells kept falling on an empty corner.

Christiane said...

REX RAY, your father would have made a good field commander . . . but as a minister his service was much more needed by the troops

RB Kuter said...

"Because I come from a different faith tradition"

This is unfortunate, but I suppose a fact. I would have hoped that our "faith traditions" as genuine Christians would be consistent in the regard to God's uncompromising sovereignty.

I am not sure how the tradition of which you speak would fall in line with Scripture on a practical way. For instance, Scripture repeatedly portrays God's conditions for a relationship with us to be that we acknowledge that He is God and His exclusive sovereignty. Mercy, grace, of course are portrayed as great elements of God's character. However, His condition of our accepting Him as God is not compromised as a result of His grace and mercy as it seems your "tradition" would allow.

Christiane said...

Mr. Kuter, I'm Catholic. There will be times when words and phrases won't 'translate' easily. My own faith tradition is somewhat 'blended' in that my good father's people were originally from France and came to Canada in the 1600's to settle in Montreal, so they were 'Roman Rite' Catholics. My godmother descended from people escaping famine and persecution in the Ukraine and was of the 'Byzantine Rite' in the Catholic Church. I graduated from a Catholic prep school and eventually taught for the nuns (Religious Sisters Filippini) in Paterson, NJ. I also worked as a teacher for the Diocese of Paterson at a facility called 'Straight and Narrow' which served addicted youth who needed GED preparation.

And then there were my mother's people who according to family were partly Episcopalian and also Southern Baptists (my grandmother). Over ten years ago, I came here to find out about the Southern Baptists, and Wade and many good people here helped me out over the years, for which I will always be very grateful.

So 'tradition' for me has a good connotation. I'm sorry if you were offended by my use of it, and I take the responsibility for not having been more careful in how I worded my comment. You deserved better.

Christiane said...

Mr. Kuter,
I forgot to add that I do believe in the Holy Trinity, God. And that God is sovereign, but that He also permits choice.

Rex Ray said...


I think we may use each other as a ‘sounding board’. :)

“Field commander” no, common sense YES. At heart, he was a writer. He printed “Chapel Chimes” once a week for soldiers which they enjoyed reading.

One Chapel Chimes had: “A soldier was at his best when he was on his knees” which cause a ‘reprimand: “No; a soldier is at his best when he was shooting the enemy.”

General Patton was to decide if Chapel Chimes was to be stopped. When he was skimming though one. Dad said, “Sir, you’re not reading all of it.”

“I don’t have to eat the whole hog to know if its good. Keep printing it.”

Most towns had a newspaper office where Dad would pay to have Chapel Chimes printed.

Once, the American artillery was about the shell a town before they invaded it. “Hold your fire, there’s an American jeep leaving the town and coming toward us.”

It was Dad leaving the town where he’d gotten Chapel Chimes printed. (Good thing he didn’t wait any longer!) He told them the Germans had left during the night.

Scott Shaver said...

Oh, it translates alright. This is not a communication issue. More like a theological and biblical issue.

Scott Shaver said...

With all due respect Christianne: If Baptist or other evangelical tradition does not "translate" with you, I find your use of the term "fundamentalist" highly curious.

If we don"t translate in your "tradition" how would you know a "fundamentalist" from a football?

Scott Shaver said...

Christianne: If by the "Fifth Gospel" you mean The Gospel of Thomas, you do realize the work is an example of pure gnosticism right?

Scott Shaver said...

Do you believe also that God will extend GRACE to all and that no soul will be eternally consigned to Hell?

RB Kuter said...

Christiane, as I've said numerous times previously, your words in no way "offend" me.
Your response showing the impression that you think you might have offended me motivated me to review what I had written that might have led you to that conclusion and I did see that I had written in response to your comment saying that you "come from a different faith tradition" that

"This is unfortunate".

I can see how you may have interpreted my comment, "This is unfortunate" (i.e., that you "come from a different faith tradition")as meaning that you understood me to think that it is "unfortunate" that you don't believe the same as me.

I intended to say that I think it is "unfortunate" IF the Catholic tradition is contradictory to my beliefs regarding the sovereignty of God and Jesus Christ as being the exclusive path into an eternal relationship with God that results in a follower being "born again" as an eternal, child of God.

I don't "think" that all Catholics would disagree with my position on that.

At any rate, you don't offend me. Shoot, I have a lot of atheist friends who cause me to be dismayed about their future but by no means are an offense to me personally.

NOT saying you are atheist!

Scott Shaver said...

There is a difference between atheism and gnosticism, just saying๐Ÿ˜Ž

Scott Shaver said...

This is not gonna be popular,Dave, but I tend to lump a large portion of "Me Too" activism in the same idealogical/socioreligious category as white supremacy, CRT, BLM etc.

Same M.O. Same factional support groups, same agenda.

Dave said...


I can identify with similarly conflicted thoughts regarding ‘whether attempting to engage’ controversial matters trending on the public square: “This is not gonna be popular, but…”

The internal dialogue apprising each us of with; “This is not gonna be popular, but…” May be intended as a caution light, akin to the ‘hissing’ sound coming from an overheated automobile radiator, warning of (contents under high pressure). I can still recall an embarrassing, unnecessarily painful incident involving a radiator cap, my ignorance …and scalded flesh.

The topic of sexual abuse (particularly within the church) is extremely volatile, and commensurate in scale to the violation incurred.
From my perspective: The radiator, barely restraining it’s contents under pressure, is symbolic of unwelcome/ungracious attempts of breaching the subject.

The classic adage: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”, captures my conclusion on potential efforts to analyze, critique or presume to assign a person’s motive, in any way …with regard to sexual abuse.

Nobody can escape that activity unharmed. Many careers and friendships have been destroyed therein.

Scott Shaver said...

Agreed Dave.

But you can get the cap off and pressure relieved safely from the radiator by turning the cap very slowly while gauging the pressure by the sound of the hiss.

Hell or high water. I analyze everything.

Scott Shaver said...

Dave, my approach is NOT recommended for any brave soul still currently pastoring.๐Ÿ˜Ž

Dave said...


I do agree that the majority of ‘fair minded people’ whom have witnessed SCOTUS confirmation hearings, could recognize the wickedly strategic efforts of those hostile toward the candidate, to deploy allegations of personal trauma …as a weapon.

Unfortunately, a tragic irony emerges …when the unscrupulous are willing to use pain as a desperate political ploy, their tactics inflict actual HARM upon legitimate survivors of sexual abuse, whom they allegedly are speaking for.

It is sad to consider that the noble cause of fighting to help protect/restore the dignity of the victims, while exposing/prosecuting the perpetrators …can become diluted, and co-opted for nefarious purposes in high-stakes political maneuvering. The consequent skepticism and suspicion as a ‘blow-back’ reaction to shallow, weaponized SA allegations …RE-victimizes the genuine trauma survivor, and probably has contributed to the seeming indifference within the SBC to take action.

As a related topic: I think I have read posts from you on Dee’s forum at her TWW blog. She has been doing some truly indispensable kingdom work in the form of victim outreach/healing, investigation/exposure of clergy preying on the flock.

Scott Shaver said...

Yes Dave, you have.

Dee Parsons has done some excellent work and is committed to her cause.

But I cannot personally stomach her crowd's indiscriminate vitriol against all Southern Baptists, especially SBC ministers as being totally corrupt and godless. And NOBODY has been more critical of the parachurch SBC than me since 1989.

I also cannot stomach how the Me Too movement has bee co-opted to sing in unison about the same strange views of "justice" as the LBGTQ+ community whose hatred of Christ and His church is glowing red hot.

Dee and her crowd, IMO are trying to root out sin in a chartered 5013C business while blaming EVERYBODY including the clergy and crowds who patronize the business for not being able to eradicate its aforementioned sin.

Nobody wins in an exercise of futility no matter how noble the cause.

For stating that view, I have been labeled often as a misogynist and sympathizer with both sexual abusers and the "further infliction of pain upon survivors"

Again, its a sick scenario of either guilt by association or guilt by refusal to adopt without analysis or question, their slogans and narratives.

Scott Shaver said...


I am not sure what further actions the SBC CAN TAKE beyond what it is attempting. Ultimately, churches may find some programs like "Caring Well" useful, others will not.

It is an exceedingly difficult if not impossible task to herd cats and the idea of eradicating sexual abuse or any other manifestations of human depravity and sin this side of the veil,whether in church or in society is a pipe dream.

As I understand the Bible, God uses Christians to resist and counter, not eradicate the sins of the world until such a time as their influence is removed and the end of the age comes.

Dave said...


Yes, I do see the same hyper-cynical ‘echo chamber’ effect on her blog, despite Dee’s far more gracious demeanor. I get the impression that a number of the folks there are atheists, animists, renouncers of prior biblical faith, or consider themselves as ‘done’ with organized expressions of Christianity.

I assume most of the individuals are united in the hope of seeing unrighteousness exposed and fitting judgment, subsequently meted out. Too often, it seems as if mean-spirited rejoicing is elicited, with each exposure of SA. The ‘blood-lust’ expressed in the rhetoric…can rapidly trend, as the dominant, collective emotion …pegging the rage-meter.

(…maybe just huge fans of David’s imprecatory psalms!)๐Ÿ˜

Scott Shaver said...

Excellently worded perspective Dave and I agree.

If one does even a cursory survey of the twitter responses coming to the rhetorical aid of "Me Too/SBCMeToo" posts you will find a plethora of LBGTQ and Progressive Left support, from across the country and across the pond, in addition to some talking heads representing the parachurch SBC denominational apparatus.

NO WAY, in the end, am I going
to line up with that zeitguist (spirit of the age) AGAINST the tangible and enduring local expression of Christ's Church on earth,regardless of the "sin" or shortcoming.

Lose-Lose proposition from my "worldview".

Dave said...


The southward direction of attendance/baptism/generational stats and growing concerns over withheld CP funds, is likely impacting ‘political will’ consensus and public imaging efforts of the SBC brand. Courting man’s approval instead of the Lord’s …will always cause that endlessly insecure speculation of ‘but, how will the public perceive this?’

The last thing needed at present, is the trending high visibility coverage of ‘sermon gate’ …while forth-coming unhelpful details continue emerging as an ‘unwelcome gift …that keeps on giving’.

Possibly the most redemptive option available, (as widespread scrutiny intensifies) is to accept the resignation of EL, and install the VP in position, credibly demonstrating that his appointment was not simply to reflect demographic value.

Scott Shaver said...


Correctamundo. In fact, they (SBC apparatus) are going to have to justify the EXISTENCE of seminaries as training grounds for pastors and missionairies if they don't go in some similar direction as you conclude.