Thursday, May 07, 2009

Sometimes You Might Feel Better In The Dark

Photograph was sent to me and alleged to have been taken on Thursday night, April 2, 2009 at the Lariat Sandridge Energy drilling platform, south of Fort Stockton, Texas. Update: Chadwick Ivester says in the first comment that it is a fake photo - a copy and paste from photoshop.

He seems to be right. It's a great picture - just fake.


chadwick said...


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you have been hoodwinked by the authenticity of the photo. It is a cut & paste job from a tornado picture taken in 1991.


Ramesh said...


"An horror of great darkness fell upon him." Genesis 15:12

Whenever God gives a vision to a saint, He puts him, as it were, in the shadow of His hand, and the saint's duty is to be still and listen. There is a darkness which comes from excess of light, and then is the time to listen. Genesis 16 is an illustration of listening to good advice when it is dark instead of waiting for God to send the light. When God gives a vision and darkness follows, wait. God will make you in accordance with the vision He has given if you will wait His time. Never try and help God fulfil His word. Abraham went through thirteen years of silence, but in those years all self-sufficiency was destroyed; there was no possibility left of relying on common-sense ways. Those years of silence were a time of discipline, not of displeasure. Never pump up joy and confidence, but stay upon God (cf. Isaiah 50:10,11).

Have I any confidence in the flesh? Or have I got beyond all confidence in myself and in men and women of God; in books and prayers and ecstasies; and is my confidence placed now in God Himself, not in His blessings? "I am the Almighty God" - El-Shaddai, the Father-Mother God. The one thing for which we are all being disciplined is to know that God is real. As soon as God becomes real, other people become shadows. Nothing that other saints do or say can ever perturb the one who is built on God

Source: Original My Utmost For His Highest - Jan 19 or Updated. said...

Thanks Chadwick. said...

Thanks Thy Peace.

Dave Samples said...

Arn't most things that we are afraid fake?

Dave Samples said...

Let me try that again...

"Arn't most things that we are afraid of fake?"

John Daly said...

I'm just waiting for the post on how the photo relates to women elders :)

Hey if anyone here tweets you can reach me here:


Jeff said...

John, the two greatest threats to the SBC are represented in that picture:

-1) Woman pastors
-2) Homosexuals.

:) said...


In the spirit of the smiley face with which you signed the previous comment . . . :)

If, and I use the word "if" intentionally . . If God intends, and if Jesus calls, and if the Spirit empowers women pastors - but you equate women preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to the sin of same sex coital acts . . .

Then, it very well might be you that needs to watch out for the lightening.



Jon L. Estes said...

I'm just waiting for the post on how the photo relates to women elders :)This is that post.

Look closely at the picture and you can see the there is a female elder standing between the power of God and the productivity capabilities of man.


B Nettles said...

Then, it very well might be you that needs to watch out for the lightening.That's a heavy statement. Maybe you should try "lightning" things up a bit.


Jeff said...

Wade, not me I play golf in thunderstorms....I so self-assured.
However, no one wants to play with me. ;)


B Nettles said...

Oh, wow,
I just noticed that you turned off anonymous comments again. Good for you. Eliminates a lot of crosstalk and chatter.


Anonymous said...

"Let me try that again..."

No, no allow me. While I find the contraction "aren't" to be a most un-intellectual word, the spelling does in fact include the "e." The next issue we have is the placement of the preposition "of" in the corrected comment. We do not end our prepositional phrases with prepositions. Therefore, the more appropriate rendering of this comment would be:

"Are not most things of which we are afraid fake?"

Or better yet:

Could there be a fakeness associated with those things of which we are afraid?

Then, in an attempt to answer the question, or validate the propositional premise one is compelled to ask the question is hell then fake? Thus answering the question emphatically no, exposing the fallacy of associating fakeness with fear.

:) Lots of rain here in Missouri...

B Nettles said...

The fakeness-fear correlation may explain why some people seem to fear Wade. They consider him to be fake.

If they realized that he was real, maybe they would see no reason to fear him.

This proposition notwithstanding, hell is real and is to be feared.

No rain in Jackson, TN yet (noon)

Christiane said...

Hi Everyone,

It's me, L's

The 'phake' photo reminds me of this REAL verse:

'22 These words the Lord spoke to all the multitude of you in the mountain, out of the midst of the FIRE and the CLOUD, and the DARKNESS, with a LOUD VOICE, adding nothing more: and he wrote them in two tables of stone, which he delivered unto me.

23 But you, after you heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, and saw the mountain burn, came to me, all the princes of the tribes and the elders, and you said: 24 Behold the Lord our God hath shown us his majesty and his greatness, we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire, and have proved this day that God speaking with man, man hath lived."

This is from the Book of Deuteronomy, Chapter 5 and there follows a wonderful bit of ADVICE from the Lord to 'stay on the path that He shows us' and not depart to THE RIGHT or THE LEFT.

So, politically-minded people who are trying to find their way in this strange world may seek counsel from the Book and depart not from 'the way He has shown us.'

I like that. This verse solves a lot of political squabbling and reminds us that we will not go wrong if we follow Him and not after the ways of men.

:) :) :)

Love, L's :)

Steve said...

A false disaster?!? Does this mean we can quit spending all the pretend-"stimulus" money and quit printing all that unsupported cash and monetizing the extra debt?

Pastor Mark said...


I thought you would like to hear a remarkable story that happened to me a few years ago while pastoring in Colorado.

I apologies for having to post it, I tried to send you an email, and my outlook wouldn’t bring it up.

This is in part a tribute to Dr. Adrian Rogers, and a surprise that still stuns me to this day.

A reminder of how near the Lord is, and how he can remind us of that. This is from my brand new blog

Memories of Dr. Adrian Rogers and a surprise gift.

The great Scottish preacher Peter Marshall once said “It’s not the duration of a life that counts but the donation”.

How thankful Southern Baptist should be for the duration and donation of the life of Adrian Rogers.

I had the opportunity to meet him on four different occasions, each time he looked intently into my eyes, and expressed genuine and heartfelt interest in my own ministry journey.

Dr. Rogers reminds me of another great man of God the legendary George W. Truett pastor of the First Baptist Church of Dallas from 1897- 1944.

Dr. Truett like Dr. Rogers was a world renowned preacher, a dignified statesman, on one occasion preaching to 15,000 from the steps of the Capital building in Washington D.C, and a three time president of our beloved convention.

In the course of my own pastoral duties I visited several years ago in the home of a guest that attended the church I was pastoring at the time.

In meeting him, I discovered an 85 year old man with a PhD from the University of Colorado, who taught pharmaceutical chemistry there for 48 years!

In our conversation I quickly discovered that he did his undergraduate degree at the University of Texas, and had lived in Dallas for a time. I asked a question that I couldn’t wait to ask . . . did you ever hear the far-famed preacher Dr. George W. Truett.

His reply . . . yes, he had not only heard him but had met Dr. Truett on several occasions, in fact he lived in the YMCA across the street from First Dallas!

Stunned by listening to him recall events that took place more than six decades before, I was about to be further astonished.

His precious wife reached into a stack of papers on the table where we were seated and handed me two letters written by Dr. Truett to American service men and women waging war at that time! On the day I visited them they just happened to be cleaning out their filing cabinet!

The letters were written in June and September of 1943! Each letter pledged continued prayers from Dr. Truett and the people of First Dallas for those in the ongoing conflict.

The letters revealed a busy pastor, not too busy to care and personally write the several hundred sons and daughters of the great First Baptist Dallas who were serving at war.

The letters were signed . . . yes signed . . . “Your Pastor and Friend George W. Truett.”

Before I left this precious couple gifted me those two 62 year old letters!

Only God could place a Pastor in a home in Boulder, Colorado to meet an 85 year old professor who then presented a gift that is framed and will be cherished for the rest of my life.

I am sure that in the decades ahead the generations following will ask us . . . did you ever hear Dr. Adrian Rogers preach.

They will wait with anticipation as they hear what he was like and who knows . . . if God grants you a long life (duration) you will make a (donation) into the life of a young minister fifty or so years from now.

Elizabeth Prata said...

ahhh, but THIS photo is real. And the photographer earned an award for it. It was late last year: Chaiten volcano in Chile suddenly blew up after thousands of years of dormancy.

I don't feel better in the dark. When I was a liveaboard sailor, and had the night watch (especially 1-3 am or 2-4 am) it was awful. My imagination kept putting obstacles out in front of the boat, whale...submarine...buoy...other boat...

The whole watch, I was yearning for the light.

But aren't we all yearning for the Light? The Light is always better, much better. :)

Dave Samples said...


Thanks for graciously correcting my less than fear-less grammar. I'm still learning.

Concerning the subject of hell, it is quite real and yet not something that I fear having been rescued from the power of both death and hell. I accept your correction however recognizing that there are perhaps some among us who do fear it.


Anonymous said...


The issue of fearing hell--Let's call it The Primary Doctrine of the Fear of Hell :) has given me pause today to think, especially since Br. Nettles indicated that "hell is real and is to be feared." I immediately thought to myself that I never remember a time where I "feared" hell save possibly once or twice before I was saved at the age of 9, and even then I cannot say that it was a fear of hell that drew me to the Lord. While I will let Bro. Nettles respond himself, I think our fear of hell would be no different than our fear of God or anything else which has the power to destroy. I do know that I do not fear going to hell. R.E.S.P.E.C.T. :)

Anyway, I hope the Doctrine of the Fear of Hell will not divide us too greatly. What has divided us however is the Doctrine of the Fear of God. I just got my copy of the MoBap Pathway and the 2008 ACP numbers are in. We spent a whole lot of money and I think somewhere close to 1/4 of our 2000 MBC church reported ZERO baptisms.

Yes, hell should be the least of our worries. Facing the glory of a righteous and holy God will rip the hearts right out of so many...and then hell will come. (Reminds me of the Indian Jones movie)


Anonymous said...


Sermons of the Baptist tradition are most certainly filled with a different flair than that of Catholic homilies, not that one is better than the other, but that they are simply different. In our Southern Baptist tradition we have a young pastor and seminary dean by the name of Russell Moore who is (imo) one of the most engaging preachers I have ever heard (right up there with Wade) :) Anyway, I have no agenda for passing this sermon on, but while listening to it thought you might enjoy listening to a fantastic message that cuts through faith barriers and reveals a precious truth of our Lord.

Be Blessed.

Christiane said...


It's me, L's

Thank you for sharing that video.
I was moved to tears at the thought of that Russian orphanage and the 'silence' of the little ones who knew no one would come to help them. Heartbreaking.

That title for God, "Abba" or "Father": it is said that that is the name God loves to be called the most.

And the concept of 'am I my brother's keeper' absolutely resonates with my faith's belief that a Christian cannot be aware that his neighbor is suffering without responding in a caring manner.

Are we our brothers' keepers?
The answer is 'Yes' and 'Yes' and Yes' again.

The Spirit within us calls out to Father God for us. The Spirit within us listens to the cries of the suffering around us, and we respond. This teaching is very much a part of my faith.

You are right, Kevin. This sermon transcends 'doctrinal boundaries'.
It is something that is meaningful to all our Christian brothers and sisters.

Thanks again for sharing this. :)

BTW, you must have started at Coventry by now. How is everything going? I pray for you to have a good beginning. You are in the hands of the Good Lord. He will guide your steps. Don't forget to pray the Psalms at night before you rest. Love, L's

Anonymous said...


I am delighted that you enjoyed Dr. Moore's message. Since I blog on here too much about me, I posted information on my blog regarding the details of my starting seminary. Just click on my name.

Tonight I shall indeed include a praying of the Psalms. Psalm 8 I think will be appropriate in light of the message in Romans 8.

God be with you as you worship Him this weekend.


Ramesh said...

All the below links are from Paula Fether's Blog - Words of a Fether.

The Ideal Christian Man or Woman.
I go on a lot about what’s wrong with gender stereotyping, but now I’ll try to focus on the scriptural– not cultural– definition of what the standard is, so everyone knows what to aim for.

First of all we have the ultimate Role Model, Jesus. And what was He like? Rather than a one-dimensional Hollywood “bad boy” on one extreme or a hyper-passive Mr. Rogers* on the other, Jesus had a wide range of emotions and actions. He overturned the merchant tables in the temple, but also wept over the people who were soon to scream for His crucifixion. He called Peter “Satan” at one point but also likened him to a rock upon which His ekklesia** would be built. He ranted against the religious elite but allowed a foreign woman to talk Him into making a healing exception for her. He worked in a common trade but healed a little girl. He taught about both mercy and justice, compassion and judgment. He never excluded the downcast, not even women, nor favored the strong

Back in the 60s there was a movie called “The President’s Analyst”. At one point the analyst (psychiatrist) is captured by a Russian spy, who says something that turned out to be disturbingly prophetic: “Every day Russia becomes more capitalistic, and America becomes more socialistic. Eventually we will meet in the middle and join hands.”

People are easy prey for gradual attacks; we’ve seen it in the US for a long time in the political realm. But I am seeing the same sort of assault on women in Christianity, and it has now reached a very ominous stage. I have assembled here a brief comparison between the teachings of many respected Christian leaders and the official teachings of Islam

The Danvers Statement.
I will now examine the definitive document of the modern male supremacist movement, The Danvers Statement. But note the date: December 1987. This was the same year that Christians for Biblical Equality (see especially their About page) began work on their journal, The Priscilla Papers.

The Galileo Syndrome.
When Galileo proposed that it was the sun, not the earth, that was the center of the solar system, the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) vehemently opposed the idea. Looking back on this, some now say that because “the church” has been wrong in the past about some scientific issues, then either (a) Christianity is anti-science, or (b) the Bible is meant to be taken allegorically, and therefore we can interpret the whole Bible that way. But there is an important fact overlooked in this incident:

Anti-Catholics often cite the Galileo case as an example of the Church refusing to abandon outdated or incorrect teaching, and clinging to a “tradition.” They fail to realize that the judges who presided over Galileo’s case were not the only people who held to a geocentric view of the universe. It was the received view among scientists at the time. (source, emphasis mine)

So in fact this debate was not science against religious dogma, but science against scientific dogma. And what is the RCC doing today? Siding with the prevailing scientific dogma. At least she’s been consistent

Lydia said...

"In our Southern Baptist tradition we have a young pastor and seminary dean by the name of Russell Moore who is (imo) one of the most engaging preachers I have ever heard (right up there with Wade) :) Anyway, I have no agenda for passing this sermon on, but while listening to it thought you might enjoy listening to a fantastic message that cuts through faith barriers and reveals a precious truth of our Lord."

Kevin, I am so glad you have no agenda in linking to Moore's message. I only wish that Moore did not have an 'agenda' when it comes to women's roles, his authority and ESS.

Recently, some of my family heard him speak at a mega church meeting on his adoption process. He told that a benefactor gave him the money to adopt his boys. I was sort of shocked that a man with such a good income as Dean at SBTS and a minister at Highview and a book author with speaking fee engagements would accept such a large gift. Why not encourage the benefactor to donate the money to the group he was speaking to who are trying raise funds for other families to adopt internationally?

Of course, even asking such questions is considered rebellious by some. But are our leaders not 'role models' as they want us to believe? Can we not ask questions of those who live off our offerings?

I could not help but think of the father of three who was recently laid off at SBTS. Like a good SBTS soldier, his wife did not work and homeschooled but now they are left with a mortgage and no health insurance but still, SBTS found it necessary to spend 9 million on a campus face lift for the upcoming Convention. What ARE we about?

We forget that our actions communicate the Gospel in many small ways. Without words.

Anonymous said...


Thank you for raising these fine points. Obviously I disagree with you regarding Dr. Moore's theology. I believe in the doctrine of ESS as well the total equality of essence and eternality within the Godhead. My view of biblical roles is no secret as well. But I think you miss the point of God's Word because you choose to divide over less than major doctrines.

I too heard Dr. Moore's testimony of how a man came into his office and gave him 10,000 toward one of his adoptions. Surely you are aware that adoptions such as these can cost between 10 and 30 thousand dollars and that Dr. Moore and his wife adopted TWO Russian boys. Dr. Moore, through homiletic analogies, has told many stories regarding the times during seminary and early ministry, including his early days at Southern where he and his wife did struggle financially. This gift was from God, not the man who came into his office. I am saddened that you rendered opinion before hearing the facts.

You should know that this is a subject dear to my own heart for if the Lord sees fit to provide for me a wife, the only way I will be able to raise "little children of the Lord Jesus Christ" is through adoption. I would fall to my knees and praise the majesty on high each time he provided for His little children, including providing the funds necessary to pull them out of such horrible conditions.

May your heart be softened toward those with whom you disagree.

And may you have a blessed Lord's Day tomorrow.


Christiane said...


It's me L's

You know I am not a believer in the 'ESS' doctrine of eternal submission of the Son.
And I also did not understand SOME of the doctrinal implications of Dr. Moore's sermon.

But I did click on it and listen and was moved by the underlying teaching of the working of the Holy Spirit on our abilities to reach out to the suffering of this world: to 'hear' their cries and to respond to them as Christ would have us to do.

You may wish to listen to the sermon wherein Dr. Moore does also explain his reticence to take the donation at first, until the donor insists that it should be seen as a gift from the Lord to help with the adoption of the Russian orphans.

The point I'm 'trying' to make is that there are some things in this sermon that all Christians might benefit from, even though doctrine is not shared. I have found that my own willingness to listen to and to respect other 'points of view' has enriched my own faith and caused me to care more about the plight of Christians who are being persecuted, no matter what doctrines that they hold to. My praying for the welfare of ALL my Christian brothers and sisters of all denominations has increased tremendously, particularly the missionaries.

I recommend the film. I would like to know your opinion of it, Lydia, if you decide to watch it.
Love, L's

Lydia said...

Kevin and L's,

I appreciate the spirit in what you say and I am very familiar with Moore's preaching/teaching/writing. I am surrounded by it and see the fruit of what our seminary is producing daily.

I am a bit confused about the monetary gift for adoption. I was under the impression it was more recent than what Kevin implies and not in the far past... during a time that Moore would have been struggling financially. I am well aware of the cost of international adoptions.

I only pray that Moore will come to see that women are FULL heirs in EVERY gift of the Holy Spirit and all that regeneration brings us in Christ.

And I will not be intimidated or guilted from asking questions concerning praxis and doctrine of our leaders who are paid with our offerings. After all, it has been said that Moore is being groomed to take over from Mohler. And Moore has called for MORE patriarchy.

Anonymous said...

"And I will not be intimidated or guilted from asking questions concerning praxis and doctrine of our leaders who are paid with our offerings."

Are you placing a condition on your offerings to the Lord?

Christiane said...


It's me, L's

Thank you for responding. You wrote this: "I only pray that Moore will come to see that women are FULL heirs in EVERY gift of the Holy Spirit and all that regeneration brings us in Christ."

I also pray that one day my own faith will come to see the same truths. For some reason, I am confidant that it will, although I may not live to see it happen. The centuries move more slowly in my faith. There is such a need in this world for all hands on deck and to lose fifty percent of the strength of the Church's potential leadership is tragic.
Men's hearts may be changed. We know this to be true. In time, by the grace of God, all things will be made right, Lydia. Have faith and never give up the 'good fight' for others to understand what we both know to be true regarding God's sacred calling to women to serve Him using all of their gifts from Him. Love, L's

P.S. Yes, I see that the Patriarchy and ESS movements are troubling. I don't blame you for being worried. It is sad to see the ancient doctrine of the Trinity attacked in such a way. And for such a purpose. L's

Lydia said...

Are you placing a condition on your offerings to the Lord?

Sat May 09, 04:26:00 PM 2009

Kevin, I am well aware of pastors who tell us to give freely and never question the stewardship of mere men. Are you trying to imply it is a sin to do so?

Strange how I am mean for questioning such things but SBTS is NOT mean for laying off fathers with 3 children while they spend 9 million in campus face lifts. While they teach that women should not work. Who has the hard heart?

Seriously, do you trust their decisions simply because of their lofty titles?

If you notice, the early church was not giving to support comfortable lifesytles for church leaders but to care for those in the Body who are truly needy, the persecuted church and to pay for the travels of those who go out with the Gospel.

They were not paying for big buildings or big salaries.

Anonymous said...

Wow, I recently made a determination to only blog in a positive manner. Had I not made a determination I suppose I could list those doctrines which I find absolutely heretical. But I will refrain as to not offend some in present company I have come to appreciate and adore. What I find disturbing however is how such a conversation as above can turn into the slamming of beliefs. My belief in ESS has nothing to do with gender roles nor does it harm this blessed (and possibly God forsaken) doctrine (or tradition) of the trinity. I have made it a point to study and teach biblical attributes of our God believing that a right understanding of who the Bible says God is can go a long way in healing the rifts among denominations. But there is always someone or some group willing to tear down that which is good.

As to patriarchy, this my friends has been the system of humanity since the garden. I am not saying we have it right nor even that the system itself is right according to Scripture, what I will tell you however is that none of you have the right to condemn another for holding to such a tradition while you hold to your own whether biblical or not. Additionally, Dr. Moore has never called for more patriarchy. He has however called for men to stand up and lead in areas ordained by God and to guide our families out of the bondage of secularism. No one in the CBMW would disagree that men and women are equal in essence and rank before the Lord, in the Church, or in the home. This is not to say that we should not engage in different biblical roles.

Regardless of the view you hold however Drs. Moore, Mohler, Patterson, Akin, Iorg, Roberts, Land, Hawkins, Kelly, Rankin, Chapman, and Hammond have the right to hold to any doctrine they wish, preach it, and teach it, etc as long as it is not addressed in the BFM2000, the minimal guideline of our convention. Besides, they report to their trustees, not the readership of this blog.

Blessing all around and peace from our Most High and Exalted God, the Lord Jesus Christ,

Kevin the Humble

Anonymous said...


I am not privy to SBTS's capital improvement budget not their staffing needs. But both are mutually exclusive. I do know however that the completion of the Legacy Center (now renamed I think) and the campus entrance project are the only capital projects that were continued. All others have been put on hold. Staffing needs however fluctuate all the time. Layoffs and hiring’s are always a part of the process. Many salaries are paid through endowments and when the stockmarket is down, so is the ability to pay salaries, additionally, the need for staff is down when enrollment is down. All this factors in.

I would encourage you to call the seminary campus or one of the current trustees and politely express your concerns. But realize that there may be a greater good involved in the decision making process than just your concerns.


Lydia said...

"Additionally, Dr. Moore has never called for more patriarchy."

Sure he has. In several venues of which one is here:

There are more.

And we have the right to question praxis and doctrine. And to warn others of what is being taught in totality. They can agree or disagree but it is not a sin to point these things out.

"No one in the CBMW would disagree that men and women are equal in essence and rank before the Lord, in the Church, or in the home. This is not to say that we should not engage in different biblical roles."

There are no ROLES in Christ, Kevin. That would be 'playing a part' that ends up works salvation. We are to BE IN CHRIST.

(CBMW teaches that Sarah Palin can be VP but would be in sin to lead a bible study with males on her staff. The Talmudic CBMW)

Does your comment above mean that my soul is equal in essence and rank before the Lord but not my physical person on earth in the Body of Christ or marriage?

Humble and lowly,


Lydia said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...


I will no longer dialogue with you. I have determined that you are an anonymous and hostile blogger. I do not believe that you have "trustee friends." And if you do then your demeanor on here is despicable. You are causing division over doctrine and that makes you a heretic.

There you go. You are an anonymous heretic.

Wade has recently set the benchmark for transparent blogging. Until you provide such information I will consider you an internet troll not worthy of conversation.

You will be ignored.


Ken Colson said...

I am amazed at the comments that result from a picture of lightening. Is this like an Ink Blot test?

Jeff said...

Kevin, What is a heretic?

Anonymous said...


It is a name one calls another when they have gotten their goat and no other argument seems applicable. It's an old trick I learned in fundamentalist school many many years ago. I figured it was fair game considering the lady of purple was pulling a few liberal tricks out of her corset.


Debbie Kaufman said...

Are you placing a condition on your offerings to the Lord?Kevin: You have got to be kidding!

Rex Ray said...

As a young person, my wife knew a pastor (not Baptists) who preached the 10% tithe belonged to the pastor and the ‘sacrifices’ went for the upkeep of the church.

How’s that for doctrine?

I enjoy a lot you’re saying these days, but then the fundamentalist comes out in you and you know you should put a corset on your mouth. :)

Hang in there Lydia,
You know you have Kevin ‘on the ropes’ when he gets ‘nasty’.

Elizabeth Prata said...

Rex Ray and Kevin Crowder, among others here I am sure, use the term "fundamentalist". What is your definition of a fundamentalist, please?

Jeff said...

@ least you know you use it wrong!

Ramesh said...

Happy Mothers Day to ALL mothers (past, current and future). God bless you all. You bring, give and nurture life to the world (next to Our Lord Jesus Christ) and you are to be revered.

Lydia said...


Nice lecture. Hope it works for you in your next pastorate. You are learning well from your hero's. :o(

But it is also a great way to ignore the issues. For example: Why am I considered 'hard hearted' for simply pointing out facts and asking questions but SBTS is not 'hard hearted' for laying off fathers of three while spending 9 mill in campus face lifts and leadership not taking cuts?

What does it matter if I am a frumpy housewife or corporate executive with a big fancy title?

Christiane said...


Having seen how discussions of doctrine has led to bad feelings, I would like to share this that comes from my own faith:


The whole concern of doctrine and its teaching must be directed to the love that never ends.

Whether something is proposed for belief, for hope or for action, the love of our Lord must always be made accessible, so that anyone can see that all the works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and have no other objective than to arrive at love."

Please remember that we shall be known as Christians by the love we have for one another. If the world cannot see this love, will they come to believe in Him? If we are asked by Our Lord to bring Him to those in this world who need His Love, we have great responsibility to show that love to one another as Christians: that they may see, and believe.

We should try and try again to respect and honor one another's efforts to reach up for God and to try understand how God has cared for us. Some of us see things differently.
After much prayer, I am resolved to listen and to learn from my Christian brothers and sisters. I may not 'agree', but my hope is that I might 'understand', and therefore embrace the person who shares with me. Much love, L's

P.S. The quote I give is from the Catechism of my faith. I think sharing this is a good thing, in the light of the pain I see displayed here. I hope it helps someone. Blessed Peaceful Sabbath to all. Love, L's

Lydia said...

I am amazed at the comments that result from a picture of lightening. Is this like an Ink Blot test?

Sun May 10, 12:22:00 AM 2009

Since when do Baptists stay on topic?

Kevin, Please accept my apologies for biting back. I think you are a funny guy and I do appreciate your comments even when I disagree. And I am not a liberal. I am a fundy, egal, DoG orthodox Christian. Alas, there is no 'category' for me.

I did not vote for Obama on the secular side, either. No way.

However, I am still praying for you a job and a non Arminian, non- presbyterian baby baptizing heiress for you. :o)


Your pal in purple.

Anonymous said...


It is with great joy that I accept your apologies and humbly offer many more of my own. Though I reject the idea that we were off topic. I think we exemplified the caricature of a tornado and lightning bolt quite well. :)

Now that the storm is over we can eagerly await Wade's next top-c.


PS to L's, Peace be with you.

Christiane said...


Thank God!

You both are good examples of how Christian reconciliation should take place.

You both give me much hope.

Love to both of you. L's

Rex Ray said...

I forgot the exact words that described “fundamentalist”, but it was something like ‘fun for men only’.

The name comes from the basic word: ‘fundamental’, but their actions gave a new meaning.

When fundamentalists became the majority of the board at SWBTS, they fired Russell Dilday…saying they didn’t have to have a reason because they had the ‘vote’.

Fundamentalists ran the C/R and are still in power today.

Wade’s post mentioned Jim Richards who is Vice President of the SBC. With that, I can rest my case.

Elizabeth Prata said...

Thank you Rex. I appreciate it.

Joe Blackmon said...

When fundamentalists became the majority of the board at SWBTS, they fired Russell Dilday

I'm sorry, could someone fill me in as to why this was a bad thing?

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Burleson's Bickering Baptist Boys' Blog

Where Baptist boys bent on bullying, belittling, bashing, and berating, blather bombastically because they believe it will begin to make Baptists better.

Bah! Bullying begets bullying. It will bury the Baptists.