"I went to Jerusalem to become acquainted (Gk. istoria) with Cephas" - Paul's words from Galatians 1:18.

Thursday, May 27, 2021

"Divide and Conquer" Is the Tactic of Marxist China

The Chinese Communist Party (CCP)
In early 2020, I posted that the SARS-COV-2 (Covid-19) virus came from a Chinese military biomedical laboratory in WUHAN, CHINA. I explained why this should be concerning to all Americans regardless of whether the Chinese military released the virus accidentally or intentionally. The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) had long studied how to weaponize coronaviruses against humans in their military biomedical research lab in WUHAN. Leading Chinese scientists from that Chinese laboratory have been missing since 2019. Even their families have no idea what has happened to them.

The Chinese government shut down domestic travel in China in late 2019 but allowed international flights from WUHAN to other countries into 2020. Soon after Covid-19 reached America (Seattle and the West Coast), the American media went into overdrive telling the American public that the virus "jumped" from the animal kingdom to humans in a "meat market" in WUHAN. Anybody who believed differently was called "a conspiracist." The media went hysterical when the President of the United States called SARS-COV-2 the China Virus.

The Chinese government has stated its desire to rule the world by 2049 (look up "Silk Road") To rule the world means that the CCP desires to govern the world's media, the world's Internet, the world's currency, the world's religion (mandated atheism and a mandated "trust in science and government"), and the world's travel over the oceans and in the skies ("you can only go where the government approves you to travel").

Today, President Biden and congressional leaders said that there is a strong possibility that the virus came from a laboratory in WUHAN, CHINA, and not a local Wuhan meat market. I would politely ask that those who discounted what I've written this past year take a moment and reflect on why you found it difficult to accept anything other than the "official line."

Think...for...yourself.

Karl Marx, the founder of Marxism, wrote that Marxism can eventually rule the world without firing a shot by "dividing and conquering" the people within other countries. If you can turn the American people against themselves - by race or by class - then you can create an American culture where people hate one another because of differences. Every soldier in the Chinese military and every politburo member in the Chinese government is a Marxist. They can't wait to control Americans by the principle of "divide and conquer."

Ten years ago nobody talked about race in the United States and the President of the United States was black. Since Covid-19, Americans have turned on one another, even attacking people and burning down cities. It is no accident. Millennials, it's time to face the facts. The United States is a great nation. Yes, we have our problems, but we have progressed. We are known around the world for our individual freedoms and liberty. Don't give those freedoms and liberties away as easily as you seem to give them away. Other countries build walls to keep their citizens in. The U.S. must build walls to keep people out. Liberty is the reason.

If we allow the principles of Marxism to continue to spread via the angry charges of "racism" and "privilege" on our campuses and in our culture, we'll soon find ourselves walled in by totalitarian governmental leaders who dictate everything about our lives- our health, our finances, our religion, our futures. That's Marxism.

If you didn't believe me about WUHAN last year, maybe you'll pause before you post a comment disbelieving what I'm saying this year. I love the Chinese people. I have many friends who are Chinese.

I hate Marxism.

Today in China, Muslims, Christians, and Falun Gong are dying by the hundreds of thousands. Marxist leaders are forcing them into concentration camps, torturing and killing them because they refuse to believe in Marxist principles or obey Marxist leaders. It's time Americans wake up to what is happening to our great country.

It's no accident you think another American is your enemy. Turning one another against each other via race or class is the tactic of Marxism. "Black Swan" events, national calamities, government control, and the intentional removal of individual freedom and liberty become the gateways for Marxism unless we begin to think for ourselves.

115 comments:

Scott Shaver said...

Thank you Mr Burleson.

Likewise I would be highly interested to hear responses from your "Big Lie" brand of detractors on this stuff.

In particular from those who drop such propaganda as comments here on a regular basis in response to posts of this nature.😎

Wade Burleson said...

Scott,

I learned a long time ago that truth, like a lion, will not and cannot be caged. Eventually, truth wins. So, therefore, I don't get offended when people think I'm lying or misrepresenting the truth. I just keep writing.

In the end, truth wins.

Christiane said...

"Think...for...yourself." THIS !


"The enemy of truth is blind acceptance"
(Matthew Arnold)

Scott Shaver said...

Hear ya Wade.

Back as early as 1986 I was confused by the SBC "battle for the Bible".

My experience after 63 years is that the Word of God (Scripture/The Bible) is like a LION, turn it loose and it DEFENDS itself more than adequately.

Scott Shaver said...

Christianne:

What about the "evils" of Trumpism? And I must admit that the tip of my tongue is punching a hole in my cheek.

Wade Burleson said...

Christiane,

Amen!

Scott Shaver said...

Not that I dismiss the truth of Christianne's quote...but would like to hear more from her "big lie" perspective.

I am not as nice as Wade. And give no quarter online in social platforms to the rhetoric of the "marxist left" slogans and shibboleths.

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

Fox News, “Outnumbered”, and others are saying the same as your Post. In fact, after hearing China was responsible either accidental or intentional, this morning, I was wishing you’d have a Post on the subject.

“Divide and conquer” WORKS. Look at Black Lives Matter, defund the police, Open Borders vs. Closed Borders.

The Communist Party is not going to pay for COVID-19. I believe they’re happy it worked. If they’d bombed America, it wouldn’t have killed near as many.

We could drop an atomic bomb on them, but that would kill innocent people.

I pray the Chinese people will turn against their leaders. Maybe we could inform the people unless they do, a bomb will.

Sallie Borrink said...

I've learned from experience that the truth always comes out in the end. Maybe not as soon as I would prefer, but the truth comes out. It's coming out now on many fronts.

But it can be a lonely road when you are one of the people who tends to discern things early on and have to wait months or years for other people to figure it out. LOL!

Neo-Marxism is evil. Critical Race Theory is a scourge on our country. Anti-racism is racist. The sooner people figure this out and they are completely rooted out of our country, the sooner we can move forward. The fact that Christians have been deceived to the level they have and bought into some of these things is truly distressing. Thankfully every day there are more stories coming out about Americans rejecting the divide and conquer agenda. Hopefully it is soon enough.

Sallie

Christiane said...

"I remain confident of this:
I will see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living." (Psalm 27:13)


People do not see things always in the same perspective but there may be reasons for this beyond our understanding. I can say most certainly that for me, it is possible at times to see things very differently from another soul in ways political and even theologically, but at the same time, by some gift of grace, to see the goodness of that soul in the land of the living.

I think it must take grace from beyond this Earth for us wounded ones to be able to see past our differences.
I think this because we are no longer left alone at the mercy of 'the divider (satan)', no.

In the way of grace it can be possible to see 'beyond' our divisions even while we are here in 'the land of the living':

"BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN HUMAN FRAILTY TO WALK THE ROAD WE WALK.
OPEN MY EYES THAT I MAY SEE HIM COMING."

Christiane said...


REX RAY,
Atomic bombs are not the ONLY ways to end ill will between peoples, no :)

A photo from the traditional Chinese wedding of my American nephew and his new bride
. . . as it happened, they fell in love at University in the USA

https://media.xogrp.com/images/20f8b857-c7ec-41f5-8c6d-49a05fe39522~rt_auto-cr_0.634.1536.1403-rs_1200.h?ordering=explicit

Scott Shaver said...

Christianne:

I don't want to hound your logic to the point of aggravation or ill-will.

Doe's "grace" also cover defending yourself, loved ones and community with force against those who REFUSE to see beyond "divisions" in "the land of the living"?

Scott Shaver said...

Rex;

I would settle at this point for the NBA and the Biden Administration to quit propping China up.

Scott Shaver said...

Additionally Christianne:

As living Christans we've already seen "the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living".

May be a slightly rougher ride from here on in. A person's enemies could become those of his or her own household kind of thing.

Scott Shaver said...

Christianne:

I mean no disrespect but, with your personal family exhibit of overcoming ill will, are you telling us that your nephew, prior to marriage was prejudiced toward Chinese people? Or telling us that intermarriage with Chinese is a pathway to reducing ethnic and national tensions?

Scott Shaver said...

Salute from here Sallie.

Scott Shaver said...

Don't much think marriage is the answer to our country's issues with China.

Tom said...

Hello

Wade, I am with you that eventually the truth will come out, but whether that truth proves whether you or I or someone else was right, in our respective understandings, may take a long time to be revealed and will depend on who is recounting the story of what others were thinking of, before that particular truth finally comes out.

Sadly, even Christians do not know what “the truth” looks like, and some even talk as if military power will resolve the issues that we all are facing.

Just over 2,000 years ago, God prophetic word, as written in Ex 20:4-6, came true when the iniquities of the Israelite people began to be visited on the fathers' children and their children's children because of their continual idolatrous worship instead of only Worshipping the God of their fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God indicated that this visitation of their iniquities would last for two ages, and when the fullness in time of the Heathen Gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts comes to an end after the passing of 2,300 years as prophesied in Daniel 8, Paul's word in Romans 11:25-26 will also come true and all of Israel will be saved as God gathers the people of the nation of Israel, His earthly Hosts, once more to Himself.

Yet, many Christians believe, that God caused the nation of Israel to be scattered to the four corners of the earth because the Jews had Jesus crucified on a cross when they rejected His message of Salvation to them. When will the truth of God's purposes be revealed to the Christians and also the Nations acting under the influence of the wicked fallen heavenly angels who are also called beasts, including the little horn, in Daniel 7 at this present time.

Humanity still has much to learn yet about the truth of the matter, since all is but vanity.

We all need to be repentant and submissive to the will of God in all that we do.

Shalom

Rex Ray said...

Sallie Borrink,

You say truth always comes out in the end. Do you think it will ever be proven that wearing a mask only benefits those selling them?

Mark Twain said, a lie can be halfway round the world before truth can get its shoes on.

Tom,

You said, “all of Israel will be saved as God gathers the people of the nation of Israel, His earthly Hosts, once more to Himself.”

Can you explain how that coincides with:

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16 NLT)

We’ve discussed this before, and as Sally said “…truth always comes out in the end.”

Scott Shaver said...

Well Tom:

Let me see. For starters, I could not disagree more with the idea that "even Christians do not know what the truth looks like".

Quite the contrary IMO, Christians have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which reveals the only infinite and eternal truth.

As to your filter of premillenial dispensational eschatology, I'm more of a pan-millenialist😜

Scott Shaver said...

Rex:
Yep to Clemons.
Yep to Sally.
Yep to 3:16

Rex Ray said...

Scott Shaver,

YEP

Neil Cameron (One Salient Oversight) said...

So Covid is real Wade?

I thought you subscribed to the Plandemic documentary?

So were you wrong back then, or are you wrong now?

Neil Cameron (One Salient Oversight) said...

https://www.wadeburleson.org/2020/05/dr-judy-mikovits-deserves-our-respect.html

Rex Ray said...

China should ‘pay’ for COVID-19 according to God’s Word:

“If you are burning thorn bushes (making COVID-19 in a Laboratory) and the fire (COVID-19) gets out of control and spreads to another person’s field (America) …destroying…the crop, (killing Americans) the one (China) who started the fire (COVID-19) must pay for the lost crop (dead Americans).” (Exodus 22:6 NLT)

RB Kuter said...

"CDC keeps secret its mishaps with deadly germs" article from "USA Today", January 4, 2017 by Alison Young, reporter.
"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which has faced congressional hearings and secret government sanctions over its sloppy lab safety practices, is keeping secret large swaths of information about dozens of recent incidents involving some of the world's most dangerous bacteria and viruses. CDC scientists apparently lost a box of deadly exposures involving viruses and bacteria, according to heavily-redacted laboratory incident reports obtained by USA TODAY."
"The CDC also redacted every word in a lab accident report from December 2013 that apparently involved a dangerous strain of influenza virus. Several CDC staff copied on the email are people who were involved in the agency's controversial work in 2005 using reverse genetics to reconstruct the 1018 flu pandemic virus, which had killed as many as 50 million people worldwide."
"In one email, the first word in the short subject line remained. It says:'Missing' and is followed by a short redaction that is likely the name of a pathogen. The emails discuss whether a report will need to be filed with federal select agent labs regulators and say: 'I will need a detailed summary of the search for this box from everyone involved in the search.' The only types of influenza viruses that would require reporting to select agent regulators are deadly strains of avian influenza and specimens of the resurrected 1918 flu virus."

Wade, I would not doubt unintentional or intentional actions by the Chinese to use biological warfare or any other method as a strategy toward world domination. However, I do doubt that whatever agents used was generated by Chinese biological labs exclusively. They are no doubt getting assistance from elements outside the CPC and that assistance is likely from our own backyard.

It is likely that elements in the United States' own biological research institutions to have willing, unwilling, knowingly, unknowingly, released some of the most advanced, lethal, contagious, biological agents into the hands of sinister agents.

The aforementioned cover-up of CDC's missing biological experimental agents and the silence of our government's response does nothing but fuel speculation that it could likely be sources from the USA that is feeding the world's biological agents into the hands of those who would use it as weaponry.

And this does not even address the cooperative participation between Chinese scientists and American university research departments involving such influenza agents where the China participants gained insight into research of high security classification and risks. I "think" you have addressed that previously.







RB Kuter said...

Sorry, the mention of flu epidemic in 3rd paragraph of my comment should have read, "1918 flu pandemic virus" and not "1018 flu pandemic virus".

Wade Burleson said...

One Salient Oversight,

Respectfully, you need to read. The government overreach is planned. I have said from Day 1 that the Corona Virus was man-made and real. I have also said that the serious effects of Covid-19 can be avoided with a good diet, Vitamin D (it attacks Vitamin D-deficient people differently), and mitigated once caught by Ivermectin and other over-the-counter drugs.

I don't fault you though for your oversight. It's in your name.

Wade Burleson said...

RB Kuter,

Good work - I think many, many things are happening in government labs both in the USA and China that would shock American citizens.

Scott Shaver said...

Change your handle to Many Salient Oversights. You need an upgrade.

Scott Shaver said...

We've carried out experiments on our own soldiers, some of which I find shocking.

Christiane said...

In the midst of all the intense political and cultural 'wars' going on stirred up by 'the serpent, the one enemy' of all Mankind,
it is good to take some time out to remember that without the Word of God, there is only the darkness.



Physically hearing the Word of God read aloud in silent community is one way of ‘letting the text speak’ to us . . .
St. Chrysotom went a little further as to what was going on when he wrote:

“In Sacred Scripture, . . .
eternal wisdom is clearly shown,
“that we may learn the gentle kindness of God,
which words cannot express”

Only the Logos Who spoke all into being ex nihilo and Who sustains all Creation in existence, Christ Himself, WHO IS 'THE WORD', has the power to overcome the ancient evil.



Scott Shaver said...

Forget the quiet "reflection" stuff. Now is the time to speak. To much "reflection" has only added to the chaos and communism IMO.

Stand up, say something, or get out of the way.

Christiane said...

https://youtu.be/JyCGLyMiGY0

Scott Shaver said...

I prefer Robert Earl Keene

Christiane said...

In silence, The Word:

" .... ask the animals, and they will instruct you;
ask the birds of the air, and they will tell you.
8 Or speak to the earth, and it will teach you;
let the fish of the sea inform you.
9 Which of all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this?
10The life of every living thing is in His hand,
as well as the breath of all mankind. "

(Job, chapter 12)

https://youtu.be/YJYiH1mRT6g

Scott Shaver said...

Good advice Christianne.

I will ask livestock and birds for advice before I ask woke left leaning politicians, clerics and academicians.

Wade Burleson said...

Scott,

:) You're on a roll. I appreciate Christiane and you - and learn from you both.

Christiane said...

Hello WADE,

I have to smile. Somewhere between what our real human problems are and what kinds of human solutions come into our wounded minds, we manage to find our way sometimes just by stumbling forward. It is always better if we don't 'have hold of the wrong horror' so to speak :)

I do know that
IF we focused on Christ
THEN we have a far, far better chance on the journey to go forward in a good direction.
May God keep you in His keeping.


Rex Ray said...

OFF SUBJECT

Yesterday, a letter from General Eisenhower was put in the Bonham Museum. The letter stated our father was being sent home. (He’d been a ‘prisoner’ by an American General in France 13 months after World War Two was over.)

Also a local newspaper will publish the full story.

Christiane said...

REX RAY, you wrote: " (He’d been a ‘prisoner’ by an American General in France 13 months after World War Two was over.)"

How was this possible?

Christiane said...

REX RAY,
does this have to do with the story about your father that begins on
Tue Jun 09, 11:54:00 PM 2015
on Wade's blog?

Scott Shaver said...

I do love her meditations.

Scott Shaver said...

What did he do, steal the General's cognac collection or something?

Christiane said...

For Remembrance:

" ... They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted;
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them....."

(excerpt, from 'The Fallen', Laurence Binyon)

Christiane said...

https://youtu.be/lo2HgOD292Y

"At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them....."

Take some time this Memorial Day for reflection.

Christiane said...

a meditation for remembrance

https://youtu.be/PUeymJ6JJno

Rex Ray said...

CHRISTIANE, CHRISTIANE,

You have the memory of an elephant; I’d forgotten I’d written When is Our Daddy Coming Home story on Wade’s Post in 2015.

BTW, today, heard a radio talk show guy that gave a recorded MOVING speech that Ronald Regan gave on Memorial Day years ago. The guy also gave a number to call if you wanted Twitter to allow Trump back on.

CHRISTIANE, I just know you’re anxious to know the number. Aw, I feel bad about saying that, but not enough to remove it. :)

Christiane said...

And one final 'remembrance' for Memorial Day for all those buried at sea under the flag of our nation, including my own dear husband:

https://youtu.be/CRIyNlpUEoc

'On the tall, slender, new masts
Lord, that is my darling there on top
I can still see my love,
Walking on deck under sail . . .
Blow softly, gently, oh North Wind'



"And the sea gave up the dead that were in it . . . "
(Revelation, chapter 20)

RB Kuter said...

Wade wrote: "I think many, many things are happening in government labs both in the USA and China that would shock American citizens"

This very week's Congressional inquiries having Fauci on the hot seat trying to maneuver around the question of how his ghost company financed work going on at Wuhan is a case in point.

Imagine the United States' elements intertwined with Chinese elements all bent on some sort of hidden agenda that is destructive to both of our countries. For what purpose? Who is behind it? Obviously there are factions involving the highest power players in control of an ideological evolution.

Admittedly, it all seems too incredible to believe yet with reports like that 2017 "USA Today" investigative article, uncovering of Fauci's personal involvement with China's 'CDC' counterpart, involvement of World Health Organization in cover-up maneuvers with China's research and release of the viral agents, the unexplained avoidance of US health institutions to apply relatively simple remedies to treat those infected with COVID and its hostile response to VERY credible scientists who confirm such treatments, the movement to push the "as yet to be approved" COVID vaccines, all add up to support the incredible conclusion. It is also revealing that it is also the "leftist ideologues" who also support WHO, oppose COVID cure procedures, and promote shut-downs of the nations, and intrusions on the private lives and control of citizens under the guise of promoting health procedures.

Those responsible for the orchestration of this current global phenomenon have obviously been preparing for its unfolding for some years prior to the actual release of the COVID virus into societies (i.e., leaking of engineered flu viral packages from CDC in 2013-2017). It did not spontaneously surface from some animal-source virus or any other natural circumstance as do all other flu viruses and epidemic events. This is the first (of which we have seen so much evidence, at least) occasion where the source of an epidemic was actually engineered and intentionally introduced into society.

It is also the first time that we have witnessed a promoted "anti-viral" vaccine using an engineered, entirely synthetic counter agent as its source.

No, there is entirely too much evidence pointing to this 2020 COVID pandemic as being the instrument for some underlying sinister motives. What motive? One can only guess at this point, but given the application of power so far it would seem to be for the purpose of establishing a means of control of "everything" and the undermining of "free societies" and "ideologies based upon the premiere principles of individual liberties".

RB Kuter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RB Kuter said...

To conclude; The greatest accommodating factor for this being the truth of what is occurring is the denial of most people to the reality of it taking place; apparently people like "One Salient Oversight".

The best, perhaps only, means of countering the truth of this being an intentional, engineered event is to laugh it off and seek to discard those who seek to uncover the truth (like "USA Today", Wade) as being ridiculous and laughable.

This is affirmed by this uniform hostile response of the "leftist" propaganda media establishment to those who would propose a rational means of remedy/cure and who oppose the "shut-down" mindset. The "leftists" player always ally with those seeking to cover-up the reality of what is taking place in terms of intentional instigation of the pandemic. It is those states with leftist-politicians in control who promote the forced "shut-downs" and closures.

While at the same time, sources genuinely promoting individual liberties take the opposite position on these matters as the "leftists".

A case in point was when Trump turned toward scientists at a New Conference after just being briefed by those scientists as to the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine saying, "Maybe we can look into the use of hydroxychloroquine derivatives for cures?"

The Marxist media had a hay day laugh about it and misquoted the context and statements in an attempt to portray Trump's comments as being ridiculous when in reality it is the genuine basis for cure treatment.

There has been continued resistance by the leftist elements in the epidemiology circles for cures. Open your eyes.

Rex Ray said...

CHRISTIANE,

You mentioned Revelation where it states:
“The sea gave up its dead, and death and the “grave” gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds.” (Revelation 20:13 NLT)

I’ve written “NO” in my Bible for two reasons.

1. Salvation is based on John 3:16 and not on our “deeds”.

2. We enter heaven the moment we die, and ‘not the grave giving us up’ based partly on Paul saying, “Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord.” (2 Corinthians 5:8 NLT)

But mainly on what Jesus said to the dying thief on the cross:
“And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43 NLT)

Christiane said...

Good Morning, REX RAY

Thank you for responding to what I wrote. My husband was a Navy man and as such was permitted to request a formal burial at sea under the flag of his nation. I honored that request even more whole-heartedly AFTER I was able to take some comfort in that reference to how the sea will 'give up its dead' at the Resurrection when the Lord of Sea and Sky and Earth says 'Come forth' and the dead shall rise again. So maybe you can understand why I believe that my husband's soul IS with the Lord and that his earthly remains are also in God's keeping until the sea shall give them up at Christ's command.

Sadly, I did not understand your comment about 'twitter' probably because I don't 'tweet' :) Don't feel bad. You be yourself and write what you think. I wouldn't want it any other way, which makes me less of a judge and more of a friend. :)

I do not understand many things. And I allow for the great mysteries of how Our Lord brings salvation on the Earth and on all of His Creation in the sense that I know Christ saves; but in the final count I reject many of the 'restrictions' some of our human thinking has attempted to 'limit' how Christ is able to do this. I hope you will not write 'NO' in your bible next to the verses where Our Lord says
"Behold, I make all things new" as He IS the 'alpha' and the 'omega', He is the Beginning, and He is the Ending. There is much I willingly leave to the great Paschal mysteries of Our Lord.

A favorite prayer is become 'Jesus Christ, I trust in You'.







Christiane said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RB Kuter said...

Rex Ray, Christiane; That conversation about the dead in the sea is intriguing.

Given that Scripture is so straightforward in overwhelmingly affirming that our souls are never separated from our Father and nothing can snatch us out of His hand, not ever death,(as Rex states) we know that references to the sea giving up its dead cannot be interpreted as meaning that the souls of the Saints are in the sea until resurrected. We have to interpret Scripture within the entirety of the context presented.

That being the case, there must be an alternative path to understanding the passages referring to that of Revelation 20:13. Perhaps it is meant to be a confirmation that nothing keeps us from The Lord, or to mean that all souls will be resurrected and those who are not Saints will be resurrected to face Judgment given that their names are not in the Book of Life as will be those made righteous by the Blood of the Lamb.

I plan on being cremated if I die prior to our Lord's coming. That sounds like a more clean and practical way to deal with my carcass than burying it in the ground, but that's just my preference. By no means do I say that cremation is better than burying if a family prefers one over the other. I don't care if my family puts my body in the ground or cremates it. I said in my will they could cremate me but if it is upsetting to do that, do whatever. Burying just seems like a lot of extra, unnecessary expense to me. There can be a beautiful memorial service to honor the "life" of the dead no matter how their carcass is disposed of. They can do whatever they wish with the ashes remaining.

My Christian friends in Thailand who died were almost always cremated at the Buddhist Temple since that was the only place that accommodated cremating and they have hardly ANY cemeteries, except some for Chinese who die in Thailand. So Christians have their funerals at the Buddhist temple grounds and then cremate the bodies there in the furnace. It is a GREAT method of evangelism as the Christians sing hymns, preach about our hope of eternal life in Jesus Christ, and actually celebrate the exit of our loved one "knowing" where they are! This while most of the Buddhist monks and other Buddhist visitors are looking on from the sidelines!

When I told my Dad that I was planning on being cremated when I die, (this was prior to his passing away and our burying his body), he almost shouted, "Lord! Say it ain't so! Ricky! You CAN't be serious!!" He did not like that idea at all. His only objection was to say that Christ was buried.

I think he was beside himself and figured I could not be resurrected if I was burned! Only God knows what my Dad was thinking was going to happen to HIS body in the ground after a couple of hundred years or so, should The Lord tarry until then.

It's all very interesting, but non-consequential, as far as I'm concerned. We'll see Christiane's husband in his eternal, resurrected body when The Lord returns OR we'll see him in the spiritual, glorious realm of God's heaven if we do join him prior to The Lord's coming. We can't lose either way! What an awesome God we have as our eternal Father!

Christiane said...

Mr. Kuter and REX RAY,

here is one prayer that is said for a Christian's burial at sea:

"Unto Almighty God we commend the soul of our brother departed, and we commit his body to the deep;
in sure and certain hope of the Resurrection unto eternal life, through our Lord Jesus Christ;
at Whose coming in glorious majesty to judge the world, the sea shall give up her dead; and the corruptible bodies of those who sleep in Him shall be changed, and made like unto His glorious body;
according to the mighty working whereby He is able to subdue all things unto Himself."


This hymn has meaning for me:
https://youtu.be/wsQw2UPHdS0

Tom said...

Rex,

You wrote: -

”Tom,

You said, “all of Israel will be saved as God gathers the people of the nation of Israel, His earthly Hosts, once more to Himself.”

Can you explain how that coincides with:

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16 NLT)

We’ve discussed this before, and as Sally said “…truth always comes out in the end.”


Yes Rex, we have discussed this before when you believed that I was an Israelite/Jew. The last time, I did not respond to your demand that I gain my salvation your way, but instead responded with another scripture. You, so to speak, became angery with me because I would not comply with your demands for my salvation, in the manner that you required.

As for having to reconcile my statement that God will gather His earthly hosts to himself with your John 3:16 verse, I would like to point out to you from scripture that Israel will be save around the time that God establishes His Everlasting Kingdom when the foundational rock, untouched by human hands comes down out of heaven to then becomes a great mountian that fills the whole earth. Dan 2:35

God has also said that he will gather Israel to Himself, and plant them in their own fertile field for their nourishment, and will teach them on/about the Mountian of Isreal, i.e. the religion based around Christ being the son of God, where they are living, besides the rivers and in the ravines scattered throughout the whole earth. Ez 34:11-16, when we read the infallable translations instead of the fallible translations that we “worship” today, tell us what God intends to do while gahtering them, i.e. His sheep, to Himself. The NLT simple gives the wrong impression of what God is intending to do when He will gahter all of Israel, to Himself.

Jesus in Luke 19:14 indicated to the audience he was speaking to, and also to us today, during this present era, the time that Israel will repent and become reconciled with God. In Luke 14:32 we are told that Israel will seek God’s/Jesus’ terms for their peace with Him.

But I fear you are demanding, for all of Israel to be saved, that they have to do it your way instead of God’s way. I simply wonder what God thinks with regards to your demands/understanding.

My trust is that God continues to draw you and your good wife into His loving and embracing Arms and that you will contintue to respond appropriately as you have done in previous years.

Shalom

Scott Shaver said...

Tom:

As a sideline spectator and eschatological critic (self-styled), I can say I don't think I've ever heard this strange brand of premillenial dispensationalism previously.

Unless its a variant strain formerly served up on a different platter. Tell me more😎

RB Kuter said...

Tom and Rex, I look forward to seeing the dialogue between the two of you regarding the saving of Israel.

Tom, I just didn't see a correlation in your references to Luke 19:14 and 14:32 to what you said these passages say. Am I reading the wrong translation or something?

Neil Cameron (One Salient Oversight) said...

OK Wade so what you're saying is that you were wrong back in May 2020. You said of Mikovits and thus her Plandemic documentary:

"Judy Mikovits is heir to these martyrs and, more directly, to a long line of scientists, whom public health officials have punished, exiled, and ruined specifically for committing heresy against reigning vaccine orthodoxies."

So was she right? Because, you see, your current post about it being part of some Chinese communist plot doesn't sit right with Mikovits' Plandemic video. IN her video, the danger of Covid was overblown and was a plot by vaccine manufacturers to make money. In your post here, Covid IS a deadly disease but was released by China.

So, I don't know Wade. Who made Covid? Western Capitalist pharmaceutical companies or Communist China?

So if you were wrong then, why can't you be wrong now?

Rex Ray said...

RB Kuter,

I’m afraid Tom is one of those who’s mind is made up, so don’t confuse him with the facts.
Did you notice Tom said it was “your John 3:16”, as if he was refuting me instead of God?

Tom said: “…we read the infallible translations instead of the fallible translations we “worship” today…the NLT simply gives the wrong impression of what God is intending to do when He will gather all of Israel, to Himself.”

RB, you’re right. Tom’s Scripture reference of Luke 19:14 and Luke 14:32 has NOTHING to do with the subject. Maybe he’s getting it from his “infallible translation”.

Scott Shaver said...

"Salient" is anything but IMO.

Scott Shaver said...

I'm afraid Tom has gone to seed on Hal Lindsey or something.

Rex Ray said...

Scott Shaver,

Sure can’t argue with your assessment of Tom. 😊

Yesterday, I received this text: “Sarah has taken a sudden downturn. Went to bed ok Friday night but hasn’t awakened today. Started in home hospice care. Prayers appreciated. Dwain.

My nickname of ‘forgetter’ kicked in, and took a while for me to remember who Dwain was. Many years ago, he was the leader at our church of Volunteer Christian Builders. https://www.volunteerchristianbuilders.com/

People all over America who wanted to start, repair, add on a building etc. would send their request to the organization to spend ONE WEEK helping them. They had to have the concrete foundation completed.

Dwain and I went to the same church. He kept after me to join them. I’d say, “I only get a two-week vacation; I can’t give up half of it.” Later, when I got a three-week vacation, my wife, Belle, and I joined.

That week was always the most enjoyable of the year. At first, we started with only the slab, but after years, we’d arrive to put up the sheetrock. Our goal was to have it ready to be painted when we left. (When half the sheetrock was up, I’d stop and start doing the ‘tape & bed.)

On one job we were tearing down old walls (to make rooms larger) and putting up new walls. My eager beaver sister will never live down the time when she worked by herself during lunch, and torn down a wall that was a new wall.

Christiane said...

"“Sarah has taken a sudden downturn. Went to bed ok Friday night but hasn’t awakened today. Started in home hospice care. Prayers appreciated. Dwain."

prayers have begun

Wade Burleson said...

Mr. Oversight,

"Judy Mikovits is heir to these martyrs and, more directly, to a long line of scientists, whom public health officials have punished, exiled, and ruined specifically for committing heresy against reigning vaccine orthodoxies."

I'm not sure why you continue to overlook the obvious Neil Cameron. I trust you do not counsel your parishioners at Launceston Presbyterian Church in Tazmania without listening to what they are actually saying. I have never been ANTI-VACCINE. I am against MANDATED vaccinations. Whether Judy is right or wrong in her views of vaccines has never been a question that I have even examine. Judy is "punished, exiled, and ruined specifically for DISAGREEING with reigning vaccine orthodoxies." I'm not sure why you can't see that I am fighting for "the right to choose" - in historic orthodox liberty language - "I am fighting for INFORMED CONSENT." I despise FORCED SUBMISSION.

Tom said...

RB Kuter said...

”Tom and Rex, I look forward to seeing the dialogue between the two of you regarding the saving of Israel.

Tom, I just didn't see a correlation in your references to Luke 19:14 and 14:32 to what you said these passages say. Am I reading the wrong translation or something?”

Sat May 29, 08:49:00 PM 2021


RB, to answer your question, I have no intention of having a dialogue with Rex, on how to save Israel, or on the requirements that they need to conform to be saved. That is God’s business. In my post above, I did suggest how their salvation would come about.

With respect to your question of how I have correlated the two mentioned passage to when Israel will be saved, I would suggest that you check what the Greek text is saying, in the Luke 19 reference, first, as our “beloved” translations do not give the same context as the original Greek text.

Luke 19:11-14: - Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. Therefore He said: "A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten minas, and said to them, 'Do business till I come.' But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We will not have this man to reign over us.'
NKJV


If you check out the Greek text it will tell you that “the entity, that has the countenance of a man went into a vast chasm a long way away, to get for himself a kingdom.” My understanding from other scriptural verses that this can only be Satan. I would also suggest to you that the citizens who were hating him at this time were Israelites. This is one of the steps that they took to being saved.

The second passage is: -

Luke 14:31-33: - Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.
NKJV

This passage is a reference to the judgement of the nations at Armageddon which occurs within sight of Jerusalem. Now according to Isaiah 24:21-22 the heavenly hosts, i.e. Satan and his angels, and the kings of the earth are judged at the same time and gathered together to be imprisoned for many days to await their time of punishment. We learn in the Book of Revelations that they, the judged heavenly hosts and kings of the earth, are imprisoned for 1,000 years in the Bottomless Pit before they are released for a little while when they all go up against God’s Saints on the earth. Then the heavenly hosts, i.e. the Beast and the False Prophet who was identified as the Little Horn in the OT are captured by Jesus and dispatched into the Lake of Fire. Shortly afterwards, Satan is also captured and dispatched into the Lake of Fire.

RB I trust that this short summary helps you in connecting the dots that I had referenced above and that I do not have many glaring error in what I have written.

Shalom

Rex Ray said...

CHRISTIANE,

I knew if anyone prayed for Sara, it’d be you. Thank you.

Today in Sunday School, I told the story about my sister tearing down the wrong wall. Her husband added: “At every lunch afterwards, a question; “Where’s Ann?”

Scott Shaver said...

Tom:

Respectfully, you keep referencing the Greek text but haven't offered a single Greek word or its parsing as an example.

I think you're passing along what somebody else explained to you with regard to any meaning of the Koine Greek.😎

Scott Shaver said...

Amen. Tazmania huh?😂

Scott Shaver said...

The chosen frozen in the outback.

Scott Shaver said...

And the strange locusts with breastplates and razor teeth sporting long hair are to be taken literally Tom?

Scott Shaver said...

Rex: I like the hammer and nails myself.

Just finished demoing and building back for a huge house here in The Woodlands which had 11 pipe bursts in the attic during the big freeze.

Christiane said...

A US marine travels through the heartland to go home, but he doesn't have to go alone:

https://youtu.be/4isYVJ0VwjY

Christiane said...

https://youtu.be/QRJkj0YfakE

RB Kuter said...

Tom, thank you for taking the time and effort to explain your interpretation of that Luke 19:11-14 parable and the Luke 14:31-33 teaching.

I appreciate such dialogue because it does motivate me to return to passages and review them with a fresh proposed perspective. I love to research Scripture to see what uncovered gems of insight might have been lying just under the surface waiting to be discovered.

I do consider your views while trying to be objective to see if there may be a new angle that I have not formerly considered. I respect your view but in this case do not find new evidence that would persuade me to alter my impression of the meaning of the passages. Honestly, I am willing to alter my view but would need more to convince me that your view holds more merit than what I have held to be the meaning.

To explain, in reviewing the Greek of Luke 19:11-14, I don't find anything that would lead me to conclude that verse 12 or others should be interpreted to be less, or more, than what it specifically says ( ἄνθρωπος i.e., n.1. (literally) man†-visage (i.e. a man-faced being, a man who has visibly come of age). Personally, I see no reason to conclude this figure to be more than a man/person of significance with the means to acquire a kingdom, or realm, of his own and nothing to suggest there may be some dark aspect of his appearance or origins.

I see no reason to conclude that this parable should be interpreted other than concluding that it refers to The Kingdom of God on earth being placed into the hands of Israel for proper stewardship consistent with God's intent. Along with other similar parables along these lines, Israel failed in their commission going so far as to slay the owner's son who had been sent to receive the father's kingdom. For this disobedience, treasonous, rebellious, mindset, those given stewardship would be held accountable unless there was an act of repentance.

In Luke 14:31-33, I take the parable to mean what is most vividly portrayed in the summary statement, "So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple." That is consistent with the introduction of the parable which is within the context of not saying you are going to commit to following Jesus without assessing what it will cost you, which is absolutely everything! (Otherwise, like the young Mark accompanying Barnabas and Paul, one might discover that fulfilling our commission may cost more than we are willing to pay and betray our mission.)

RB Kuter said...

Please understand, Tom, I am genuinely not trying to talk you out of your position as to the intended "take-away" of these parables, I just do not hold the same view.

I tend to prefer interpreting Scripture in a literal way, or arriving at what seems to be the most obvious conclusion, unless I find other passages that clearly depict there is more to be considered than the apparent picture portrayed. In some cases where there are multiple possibilities that might be credible, I try to listen and study to see if I may be off and my view is in need of adjusting.

A recent discussion on the "Mary" anointing Jesus is a case in point. I was in a series with a group of other fine Jesus followers and I was proposing the "possibility" that there was "one" anointing instead of "two" with the same "one, singular, lady" doing the anointing referred to in more than one Gospel and that this "one" Mary was "Mary Magdalene"!

My friends did not accept that assessment and gave me their reasons saying that one was Mary the sister of Lazarus and she could not be the "other" who was considered to be an immoral sinner. We had a great, vibrant, dialogue over Scripture references. I never was entirely convinced that my initial view was in error, but I sure did see the merits of their views and became less adamant about my own. In any case, we all agreed that our being "right" on this issue had no leverage on our salvation.

So thank you for presenting challenging propositions.

Christiane said...

Hello Mr. Kuter,

you wrote, this: "In Luke 14:31-33, I take the parable to mean what is most vividly portrayed in the summary statement, "So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple."

and I wondered if this might also help:

"Luke 14:31-33
J.B. Phillips New Testament

31-33 “Or, suppose there is a king who is going to war with another king, doesn’t he sit down first and consider whether he can engage the twenty thousand of the other king with his own ten thousand? And if he decides he can’t, then, while the other king is still a long way off, he sends messengers to him to ask for conditions of peace. So it is with you; only the man who says goodbye to all his possessions can be my disciple."

Mr. Kuter, the idea of 'giving everything up' may be a metaphor for "having COMPLETE trust in Christ" in the light of what He had already given up for us.

Rex Ray said...

In church today, our pastor asked us to share a ‘God-moment’. Several told of leading lost people to Jesus; some shortly before they died.

I told of this experience: About 40 years ago, the roads around here were one-lane in each direction. I had a habit (not anymore) if someone wanted to pass, but there was too much oncoming traffic, I’d drive on the shoulder until they passed.

It was night and the many oncoming car lights made it hard to see. A car wanted to pass, so I started driving on the shoulder. (I didn’t know a boy was walking in the middle of the shoulder with his back to me.)

As the car was passing, a thought came to me. It was one I’d never had before or since: ‘Pull in behind the car like ‘race-cars’ do.’

As soon as the car got three feet in front, I jerked the steering-wheel so hard my car rocked back and forth. I thought the guy would be angry with me, and at the same time I saw the boy.

It scared me so bad, I went back and told the boy how I’d almost killed him, and he should always walk facing traffic. He was a mile from home and getting some exercise.

RB Kuter said...

Christiane, " the idea of 'giving everything up' may be a metaphor for "having COMPLETE trust in Christ" in the light of what He had already given up for us."

Absolutely. I believe His using the phrase, "take up your cross" sums it all up.

Perhaps a problem with our having difficulty to fully appreciate the condition of our qualifying as followers of Jesus is that we do not equate "the cross" as being an instrument of execution.

Scott Shaver said...

The cross represents defeat of the power of sin.

Christiane said...

AMEN

Christiane said...

Powerful comment, REX RAY

Your story speaks to the Providence of God in His great mercy to us.

Christiane said...

some thoughts on 'hammers' and 'nails' and the Cross


I do believe that the Church, as Church, owes all human persons respect and dignity regardless of what circumstances they are born into, and for them what 'judges' people who are different from themselves as 'lost', it may be that those who judge are carrying far more of a burden around than the ones they might attempt to torment by 'finger-pointing' and attempt to control by bullying/ and excluding.

In some better world than this, we would be able to recognize 'who is our neighbor' and we may have found a way to see beyond the 'finger-pointing' and the judging in situations where a person is born 'different' from 'the norm';

and God knows that it is we ALSO of 'the norm' did put Him on the cross,
so we are all of us carrying nails and hammers and maybe its time to put the nails and hammers and stones down for a moment.
As 'Church' we know we are ALL wounded in ways beyond our own designing, and that we are in need of grace and forgiveness.

When will we see our way to realize that our humankind is in need of a more ancient kindness that comes from those who drink deeply from the well of the Holy Spirit.

Among these are ministers who realize that we are all of us formed from the same elements of the Earth and we all of us have life breathed into us by Our Creator.
Such ministers will play no culture war games to the 'left' OR to the 'right', but will patiently encourage all of us to put down our stones, and in doing so, these ministers will pray that we may begin to draw great strength from the fruit of the Holy Spirit and finally be able to also put down our hammers and our nails in recognition of the mystery of the Cross.
""Ecce lignum crucis in quo salus mundi pependit. Salus mundi!"

Scott Shaver said...

Christianne:

First, we must have your definitions of "finger pointing" and bullying" prior to making a judgment call.

Also, I do remember Jesus on more than one occasion warning both the crowds and his closest followers about the dangers of gullibility. Apostles did same.

Scott Shaver said...

Additionally Christiane:

I don't know a single Southern Baptist whether cleric or lay over the last 50 years, regardless of theology)who denies that we were all ethnicities and tribes"created by God from from one source material"according to the text via Paul in Acts. Chapter 17 if not mistaken.

To which specific "ministers do your refer?

Tom said...

RB Kuter said...

Please understand, Tom, I am genuinely not trying to talk you out of your position as to the intended "take-away" of these parables, I just do not hold the same view.

I tend to prefer interpreting Scripture in a literal way, or arriving at what seems to be the most obvious conclusion, unless I find other passages that clearly depict there is more to be considered than the apparent picture portrayed. In some cases where there are multiple possibilities that might be credible, I try to listen and study to see if I may be off and my view is in need of adjusting.

. . . . .
So thank you for presenting challenging propositions.


Thanks RB for at least taking the time to researching the evidence that I presented and encouragement to continue to be challenging even though we might not agree.

My understanding did not come to me in one revelation but in a series of much smaller revelations over the last few decades. Over time as I allowed God to reveal to me the underlying meanings within the scriptures a clearer picture presented itself. In fact in Daniel 7:2, I was able to understand that the beasts were wicked fallen angels, as Paul alludes to in Ephesians 6:12, just in recent months. I find that many people’s rebuttals are nasty towards me with many attempting to put down someone who thinks differently to them.

You are lucky that your group of friends, including yourself respect each others inconsistencies with respect to the scriptures. In the friends I rub shoulders with, they are not interested in understanding the storyline of the End Times but hold to the latest “hot” profitable book written by some “expert” who holds a particular view as to how things will pan out.

I find that I must keep searching the scriptures for the gems that it contains and brings that help for me to understand better God’s prophecies concerning the end time.

May you to, be able to find the “gems” within the scriptures that fleshes out more of the storyline of the End Times that helps you to understand more as well.

Shalom

Scott Shaver said...

Christianne:

Do you believe humanity will reconcile ourselves to one another in this world or will evil wax worse until the elements melt with fervent heat at the conclusion of history?

Christiane said...

"I am the Alpha and the Omega,
the First and the Last,
the Beginning and the End. " (Revelation 22:13)


"16 For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible . . . .
All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, AND IN HIM ALL THINGS HOLD TOGETHER." (Colossians)


'In the midst of life, we are in death, BUT FOR THE LORD'
'In Whose Hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.'

https://youtu.be/DGfBwWrNOic

Media vita in morte sumus
quem quaerimus adjutorem
nisi te, Domine,
qui pro peccatis nostris
juste irasceris?
Sancte Deus,
sancte fortis,
sancte et misericors Salvator:
amarae morti ne tradas nos.

“In the midst of life we are in death.
To whom can we go for help, but to you, Lord God?
You know the secrets of our hearts;
mercifully hear us, most worthy judge eternal;
keep us, at our last hour, in the consolation of your love”.


RB Kuter said...

Tom said, "I find that many people’s rebuttals are nasty towards me with many attempting to put down someone who thinks differently to them."

I understand that. I think most of us tend to "own" our position on Scripture and doctrine and feel a bit threatened when someone proposes an alternative to what we have held to for a long time. Some people's faith is actually challenged when they hear proposals to interpretations different to what they have held and have heard preached and taught for a long time.

I tend to be slow to come around to just about anything "new", be it "internet", or "using ZOOM", or new proposals related to Scripture that I have held to for a long time. For the sake of "growing" in my understanding I try to be objective and open to at least considering and doing some of my own searching when someone offers a position which is new to me.

God is so infinite and marvelous and wondrous and there are so many mysteries concerning Him and His "Plan" and ways of doing things that we can never acquire and grasp all of the truths about Him. We must continue to grow and search and explore to gain knowledge and enhance our relationship with Him and not be satisfied with our being complacent,lethargic or keeping "status quo".

Plus there are so many things involving the future providential Plan of God that are encouraging and help us to be prepared and equipped to serve strategically in the midst of those events and changes that are going to take place. It's a wondrous time to be alive and to be called to serve our Lord.

I hope you will continue to search and to share those things you have uncovered or possibilities as to the intent God has placed them before us. It is obviously a passion for you and no doubt a calling that God has led you to pursue.

I would encourage you to be patient with others who might initially resist or even object to your propositions and understanding of Scripture. Know that some may well respond in a rather hostile manner, probably because we want "our" position to be right and we've grown more comfortable with it and are slow to move from the spot upon which we have grown rooted. But like I mentioned, your proposals and new revelations of viewing some things actually challenges a lot of us to review our own positions and if done objectively, opens the doors to all of us continuing to learn and grow.

Scott Shaver said...

RB:

I agree. But I am also convinced that the Book of Revelation has always been the happiest of hunting grounds for kooks and crankpots.

Consequently, I will continue to probe, challenge and question.

Notice also that I get no response to my text related questions following Tom's discourses.

Scott Shaver said...

Same practice of Christianne with regard to questions related to textual subjects and context.

Christiane said...

. . . .sometimes there are no words.

Sometimes, nothing that you can say, as heartfelt as it might be, is what another person needs to hear at that time.

Sometimes, the most powerful thing that we can do to bear witness to someone’s pain is to be in their presence in silence and to allow our own silence to speak in consolation.



Rex Ray said...

CHRISTIANE,

No change in Sarah.

Scot Shaver,

I’ve never heard it said so well: “the Book of Revelation has always been the happiest of hunting grounds for kooks and crackpots.”

Pre-mentalists: Rapture takes place before End Times.
Post-mentalists: Rapture takes place after End Times.
Pan-mentalist: Rapture will Pan out in the End. (That’s me.)

Christiane said...

REX RAY,

thanks for update,
I will continue vigil prayers for Sara. If you hear more, please let me know.
Hope you are well.

Christiane said...

Concerning the last book of the Bible, it might be difficult to understand if people are not familiar with that kind of prophetic (apocalyptic) language which cannot be interpreted in a strictly literal sense at all times. Of course it might lead to some confusion. There is much symbolism in sacred Scripture that is centered in Christ. One reference is to the 'lamb of God' which shows up in time of the Passover in Egypt, where 'the blood of a lamb' on doorposts signaled the Angel of Death to 'pass over' that house and not take the first born son. Then we hear St. John the Baptist with his famous phrase 'behold the Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world', and then of course we come to the image of the Lamb Who had been slain in the Book of Revelation.

some have said it is best to read the Book of Revelation FIRST before reading any other Scriptures. Here is why:
Rev 5
"9 And they sang a new song:
“Worthy are You to take the scroll and open its seals, because You were slain, and by Your blood You purchased for God those from every tribe and tongue and people and nation."

So from Revelation, we know that Christ alone is worthy to open and interpret the 'scrolls', and that we need to understand the meaning of the sacred Scriptures through the 'lens' of Christ, if we would know their meaning more fully attuned to the Mind of Christ.

This also is clarified when we are told in the Holy Gospel of St. John that Christ is the 'Word' Who brings light on the Earth

so we understand what it means when is said, this:
'without the Word of God, there is only the darkness'





Tom said...

Scott Shaver

Please understand that you are around 12 hrs behind, timewise on this Blog. I also have a life to live outside of Wade's Blog and as such I chose carefully the people I wish to interact with.

I am also aware that comments on Wade's blog are limited to around one page of text in a word document, and that any explanation to be complete with respect to your requests require a book for them to be fully explained to everyone's satisfaction including mine.

As such posting ad nauseum on Wade's blog is not necessarily good for this blog or for others who read the comments as well.

It is not that I am not willing to respond to your question, but my previous posts above provided some of the answers that you were asking.

Shalom

Scott Shaver said...

Are the locusts literal is/can be a simple yes or no question Tom.

Christiane said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott Shaver said...

Me too Rex.

There is an excellent book (commentary/treatment) of John's Apocalypse (Revelation) written by Ray Summers which was published I think sometime in the 50s or 60s. Summers was on the faculty at SWBTS and the title of the book is "Worthy is the Lamb". Might still be able to order one on Amazon.

The book contains a comprehensive examination of the nature of Jewish apocalyptic as well as a length section on the intertestamental period of the Maccabees.

Best I've ever read on the subject.

Christiane said...

https://www.amazon.com/Worthy-Lamb-Ray-Summers/dp/0805420746

Christiane said...

Hello Tom,

may I ask what your denominational background is . . . I'm Catholic so I don't know about the beliefs of many denominations centered around Schofield's Bible footnotes but I take it that there are a lot of different viewpoints.

My own is very different in ways from what I hear people speaking of, so I may not understand where people are coming from,
but I can see that there is much worry and attention given over to 'the Last Days' or what some call 'the End Times', and I'm not sure people need to be so worried but that is my own opinion. Please share your background but only if you care to do so. And thank you.

Christiane

Scott Shaver said...

Yes Christianne. That is the one.

Christiane said...

Tom, I meant 'Scofield' Bible, sorry for mis-spelling

https://www.historynet.com/c-i-scofield-true-believer.htm

Tom said...

Christiane,

I am of no particular Callithumpian persuasion. I perceive that the biggest problem to understanding the scriptures are the very fallible translations that are popular among the churches that have been modified to reflect the mistaken beliefs of many denominations and theories. The present translations have held to past traditions and understandings that go back to the early times of the nation of Israel. Before any real changes can be effected in our understanding our translations need to be corrected to reflect the actual contextual intent of the original language documents.

An example is that God promised Abraham His earth that He had made and that He would show Abraham, but the translations are caught up in the promise of land which Abraham never received from God. Gen 13:15 is one example where it is translated as "for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever," in stead of reflecting God's intent as expressed in the Hebrew which I would paraphrase in this manner: - "for all the earth which you see, {that (entity)}, I will give to your descendants for a long period of time whose ending is at the vanishing point, {of this particular time period}, in the future}." This difference in context is unfortunately reflected through our translations of the OT and also in our NT translations.

Without providing an improved contextual translation of the source texts, any effort to bring about changing our understanding of God and the respective theologically held beliefs understanding will be very difficult to achieve because people will revert back to their flawed translations and the associated meanings that they have created.

Shalom

Rex Ray said...

Tom,

I believe you’re trying to live by the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is like: ‘Wake up and smell the roses!’

Old Covenant vs. New Covenant - The Crucial Differences (learnreligions.com)

The Old Testament (old covenant) was a foreshadowing of the New, a foundation for what was to come. From the book of Genesis on, the Old Testament pointed forward to a Messiah or Savior. The New Testament describes the fulfillment of God's promise by Jesus Christ.

Scott Shaver said...

Tom:

I must say that your skepticism toward Christians having access to truth reminds me of the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message. It removed Christ as the "criterion of biblical interpretation.

Tom said...

Hello Scott,

I do not live in the USA so your reference to the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message has no relevance for me to grasp what you are attempting to say.

Hello Rex,

If our "Christian reward" as described in the NT is to receive the whole refurbished earth as our inheritance, then why is it differently expressed in the OT translations?

The facts of the matter is that I am applying the NT lens to the OT scriptures.

As a point of interest, even the NT requires corrections to the flawed translated contextual message, which are different to the context expressed in the Greek texts.

There are none so blind as those who cannot see their own folly, and sadly, I may be one of those who is also a member of this group with you both.

Shalom

Christiane said...

An old saying:

" the New Testament lies hidden in the Old
and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New"

Augustine

Rex Ray said...

Scott Shaver,

The 1963 BF&M: “…Therefore the sole authority for faith and practice among Baptists is Jesus Christ whose will is revealed in the Holy Scriptures.” (I like to think that means we’re to interpret the Bible through the eyes of Jesus.)

And like you said, the 2000 BF&M (written by 15 friends of Page Patterson) removed that. (Our church as well as many other churches have NEVER accepted the 2000 and abide by the 1963)

Tom, you said, “There are none so blind as those who cannot see…”

I’ve heard, “There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.”

Also you said, “If our “Christian reward as described in the NT is to receive the whole refurbished earth as our inheritance…”

WHAT? Scott the reward of Christians is heaven. My oldest cousin died in China when she was 5-years-old. Her last words: “Mama, which one is our house?”

Scott Shaver said...

Rex:

I use the 2000BFM to line bird cages.

Hilarious to hear guys like Mohler and Burke and the CBN regurgitating the shibboleths of "sufficiency" and "inerrancy" in spite of their removal of Christ from the BFM.

What good are ANYBODY'S theories of inspiration when they don't recognize the primacy of the Holy Spirit's role in interpretation.

Education does not necessarily prevent ignorance.

Rex Ray said...

Scott Shaver,

The 2000 BFM restricted the office of pastor to men! Also, its addition “THE FAMILY” made women second-class Christians. (Women’s only role in life was to care for the family.)

There’d be more justice if your bird cage lining had Patterson’s picture on it.

The only thing worse than ignorance is ‘ignorance in action’.

Scott Shaver said...

Rex, If I had a bird I'm sure he would fly the coop having to look at that everyday. The SBC is comprised of autonomous churches.

Autonomous churches lay hands on whomever they wish and supply the pulpit with whomever they wish. Nobody's business but theirs and the Lord Christ's.

Let em put that in their Founders, CBN, or SBC Voices pipes and smoke on it awhile.

Rex Ray said...

Scott Shaver,

I was thinking a bird with ‘good aim’ wouldn’t see Patterson’s picture very long.