A "deep fake" video programmer recently uploaded to YouTube a video of a David Letterman interview with comedian Bill Hader.
Hader, a well-known impersonator of television stars, does impressions of Tom Cruise and Seth Rogen for Letterman during taping for a 2008 David Letterman Show.
The professional "Deep Fake" computer programmer took the original video from the Letterman Show, then altered it using computer technology, He subtly and expertly placed Tom Cruise's face onto Bill Hader's face as Hader impersonates Cruise. He does the same thing when Hader impersonates Rogen, placing Rogen's face expertly onto Hader's face.
The "Deep Fake" programmer then uploaded the video to YouTube where it's been viewed over 5 million times.
Using the Deep Fake technology, a view of the video on YouTube, not knowing better, might think that Tom Cruise and Seth Rogen were being actually being interviewed by Letterman, not Bill Hader.
This new technology is borderline dangerous.
The significance what you see in the video, featured in The Guardian's recent newspaper article on "the new face" of Simon Cowell, should be a clear warning to anyone who reads, watches and listens to anything on the Internet.
It is now possible through "Deep Fake" technology to place people in places they weren't, to have people say things they didn't, and to all together create an alternative reality that isn't true.
It's a new day.
Watch the video for yourself and use it as a warning to not always believe what you see on the Internet.
94 comments:
the Russians are great at this kind of sabotage
Good word, Wade. Sometimes my wife will read me a quote from someone famous off some FaceBook posting or other internet source that seems outrageous. I remark that it would be best to do some checking on Snopes (not entirely credible itself) or other source and most often, it is found to be some fake posting, often done years ago, which keeps surfacing and people begin forwarding it again.
Another danger is hackers who are extremely creative in sucking you into their methods of getting access into your accounts. Last week I received a Facebook posting from a friend I had not heard from in a long time asking me if I had heard the "good news". I immediately thought something to be strange, coming from this friend who seldom contacts me, and I responded writing something like, "You mean about Jesus?". He responded that he had gotten this source from a friend and he had just received $100,000 free. The money had just been delivered by FedEx delivery to his door! All I needed to do was to click on the "link" he was sending.
I responded that I had contacted the FBI to report him and he should be expecting a knock on his door by FBI agents at any moment.
Of course, my friend's FaceBook account HAD been hacked into and someone was sending messages to all his "friends" using my friend's FB account and trying to get people to open the "linK' that the guy was sending.
Scary stuff.
Wade, I keep thinking about that commercial (?) where the punch line was "Bonjour" (or as it was pronounced: Bone-jore)
Unsurprisingly, the most vocal generation warning of the pitfalls of "fake news" and internet danger are actually the very people that perpetuate it the most.
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/1/eaau4586.full
Hey, Anonymous, I like that link you posted, although one never knows, it might be "fake news"! Ha, just kidding, kind of. It looks to be pretty credible to me.
Being of that generation you, and the article mentions, as being the one that perpetuates "fake news" the most, I was, of course, skeptical and initially in denial. Who wants to be a whoremonger?!
Then when reading the article I thought, "You know, I can believe that my generation would be the one that is most active in forwarding on 'fake news' articles." I get a LOT of it from my old friends, those who are of the conservative persuasion, not so much from those of a more liberal stance. Seems my more conservative friends are more bold and outspoken than my liberal friends, probably because "most" friends are more conservative on that FB forum in which I am active. So conservative friends are bolder while liberal friends, not so much.
I agree with the definition for "fake news" in the article; "“fake news”—false or misleading content intentionally dressed up to look like news articles, often for the purpose of generating ad revenue".
The question still arises in my mind, "Why would my generation be the one most caught up in believing the fake news and then promote it with others as a means to accomplish their agenda?"
I DO, on occasion, not frequently, forward on articles I think might be noteworthy to my friends, but I earnestly try to verify its credibility before doing so. Another thing that I try hard to do when posting ANYTHING on FB is to try NOT to campaign politically because I have a lot of friends who have opposing views than my own and I do not want to jeopardize our relationship. I DO often get partisan when posting on Twitter and/or on my website, too, but not on my blog site.
Anyway, thanks for this article.
I WISH this WERE 'fake news', but it isn't, and it's heart-breaking:
https://commonwealthmagazine.org/immigration/trump-administration-ending-protected-medical-status-for-immigrants/
so how does the church accept this kind of inhumane treatment of sick children? Or maybe, this crosses a line that Christians would not 'look away' and 'stay silent', but would have the courage to speak up for those whose lives are now in jeopardy ?
I know people are fearful of speaking up, but there comes a time when Christian witness asks this of you.
For those, who dabble in white identity, and who also claim to kneel before Christ, please consider the importance of this new 'edict' from the trumpian administration. There needs to be some recognition from Christians that they do not support such inhumanity to sick children.
God have mercy!
I just wish the left would express half as much compassion and rhetoric for the "millions" of infants being mercilessly "killed" under the leftist persuasion to accommodate the convenience of those practicing non-responsible sexual activity. Perhaps then their expressed concern for the hundreds of children being forced into government facilities while their illegal parents are being incarcerated would have more credibility.
One step at a time.
I do think that when our young people see the depths of the new inhumanity tolerated in this nation,
they will be even more hesitant to want to welcome new life
mixed message, the combination of theocracy and 'you're on your own' that would call women murderers who get abortions, while denying new parents any gov't guaranteed paid family leave
logical? only to a certain group
but to a young mother, the reality is discouraging and 'abortion' is the choice of this discouraged who see no way out
want to prevent abortions? welcome new life!
the old punitive, controlling, punishing, denying, negativity doesn't welcome life a bit,
put yourself into the shoes of a desperate young woman who sees the far-right's goals and do not think she will be encouraged by them, no
I call it 'the war on women' when the walk doesn't match the talk and all is 'legal' and 'punish' and 'control' and 'force' and 'certainly no help financially from the state, of course not'
my opinion? talk to some women these days who are facing tough decisions and see what is in their heads and LISTEN . . .
God is present in the listening
Christiane--does it ever occur to you those tough decisions need to be made BEFORE conception? Most abortions are not done to deal with rape or incest where the woman had no part in the decision.
Rather than legalizing the murder of babies in the name of compassion why not get real with men and women that the "products of sexual activity" are babies. Not products of conceptions, not burdens, but babies.
There is no war on women for opposing the murder of babies. Those who claim to care about the babies, children, and adults at the border should walk the talk and be far more proactive for the saving the lives of the unborn.
Want us to listen to the left about the border? Begin to save the babies here.
My son was not his birth mother's "difficult circumstance" nor her "tough decision". Thankfully he was born shortly before Roe v Wade and survived our culture of death.
linda
I have a policy about the internet. I don't believe anything I read, and only half of what I see . . .
"I have a policy about the internet. I don't believe anything I read, and only half of what I see . . ."
Okey dokey. I don't believe you. :) Ken
Wade, a very relevant example of the internet...a topic on believing what is on the internet and some single-issue voter tries to hijack this blog and make it about abortion. Of course, that is one of the problems with all of the internet...people trying to hijack the topic As anonymous said above, "Anonymous said...
the Russians are great at this kind of sabotage!"
On a more serious note - law enforcement already has some pretty slick editing abilities when it comes to body cam footage. Now they can make anyone they want to frame to be shown committing said crimes on video. This isn't just "borderline" dangerous - it's incredibly DANGEROUS!!!! Ken
Gerry said, "a topic on believing what is on the internet and some single-issue voter tries to hijack this blog and make it about abortion."
Interesting conclusion on your part. I thought the initial "rabbit" leading the discussion off this blog's post-path and to be hijacked was the comment on mistreatment of children at the border and Trump administration: "For those, who dabble in white identity, and who also claim to kneel before Christ, please consider the importance of this new 'edict' from the trumpian administration."
The "abortion" comment was a subsequent response to that off-path commen. It was not initiating a hijacking. You will notice that my initial comment, prior to the anti-Trump, border-issue comment, was relative to Wade's post.
But since you overlooked that important "fact", I guess we know where you are coming from.
But thanks for providing an example portraying the blog post message. Having biased blog-police always adds drama and does contribute to the validity of the claims of there being "fake news".
CHRISTIANE,
The link below tells who qualifies for a B-2 Visa to come to America for medical treatment. It is for adults, but I guess the adults can apply for their kids. They are to pay for all cost and stay a temporary and specified period of time that is corroborated by a letter from their physician.
I don’t know how their physician could know how long that time would be.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/b-2-visa-us-medical-treatment-who-qualifies.html
Christiane, at least you’re not like one person that said on the internet: “Let me exaggerate for outrageous effect: We LOVE children. They are great roasted with potatoes and carrots in a sauce made from olive oil, shallots and white wine.”
Two days ago a doctor gave me bad and good news: I have prostate cancer, but at age 87 I won’t live long enough for it to kill me. 😊
Hello REX RAY,
I am so sorry to hear of your 'good/bad' news. But take heart, my own husband who is 80 has had prostate cancer and been treated for it and is still thriving, and his lung tumor was treated successfully by a new system called 'cyber surgery' . . . thank GOD for modern science.
I guess you read my comment before I erased it. It was up all night, and in the morning, I thought . . . 'that's way too emotional' and it was, and sure, I'm distraught, but I don't need to put that on anyone, least of all the dear people here whom I respect as having good hearts (even though they are conspiracy theory junkies) :)
I hope the situation I described is resolved for the sake of those sick children. One can hope.
Strange thing, my husband was also told 'you can live a long, long time with prostate cancer, it's something else that will kill you.'
Well, you follow the doctor's advice, REX RAY. They know how to help you. Glad you are getting check-ups regularly. So important.
One of the nurses I worked with when I was a ward-clerk in college said:
'I love babies, it's kids I hate'
It takes all kinds. :)
Wade,
Found this old paper that I put on your Dad’s blog 9-4-10.
He replied; showing his picture and “Paul Burleson said…
Rex, Now that is one of the funniest things I’ve heard in a long time. Good stuff Rex.”
I’d written: “Paul, I heard this story: Based on Christians having Easter and Jews having Passover Holy Days, Atheists sued for their recognition day.
The judge quoted Psalm 14:1. “The fool says in his heart, there is no God.” He threw the case out of court because Atheists already had their day; April 1.
that is funny, REX RAY
Rex Ray, I am sorry to hear about this cancer episode. I will be praying for you, brother and as I talk to our Father I'm going to ask for His healing power to be upon you and praise Him for your close relationship with Him that gives you the peace and confidence that comes with that.
CHRISTIANE,
I figured if anyone replied to the joke, it’d be you. Thanks. If you do like I do in keeping a list of Wade’s post and the number of comments, I can scan them in a few minutes and see if any comments have been added. (Sometimes I learn as much from them as I do the post. (No cut-down intended, Wade. 😊)
RB Kuter,
I appreciate your prayers. I’m taking medicine, but even without that the doctor said it was a slow kind that’d take over ten years to cause trouble.
Hello REX RAY,
I read your joke and had to laugh
. . . April 1st,
'The Feast of All Fools'
Newspaper wrote: Leavelle, detective in historic photo of Oswald shooting, dies at 99. (He was at Pearl Harbor when Japanese attacked.) He got to know Jack Ruby at his dance hall while 'supervising' rowdy customers who might create disturbances. Once Ruby told him, "I've always wanted to see two police officers about to loose their lives in a death struggle with somebody, and I could jump in and save them."
The morning after Oswald was shot, Leavelle told him "You know you didn't do us any favor by shooting Oswald." Ruby replied, "All I wanted to do was to be a hero, and it looks like all I did was foul things up..."
Of course it's like Wade said, you can't believe everything on the Internet, but what about Newspapers? The internet quotes Ruby telling an FBI informant to watch for fireworks the day BEFORE JFK was killed. Also Ruby said the hospital he was in was trying to kill him before he was to testify about the JFK assignation. (He died of cancer before testifying.)
Rex Ray said...
opts,
My Computer is really fouled up. Cannot write anywhere except directly here. (I usually 'copy-paste)
Didn't realize I would be "anonymous" in my comment above.
Rex Ray said... (See I might be anonymous again. :)
Today I'll trust the internet more than my computer, because I cannot write ANYWHERE except in this space.
Did you hear about the cows that had to have bells tied around their necks because their horns wouldn't blow? (compliments of Judy's nephew)
Rex Ray, I'll tell some kids the cow joke tomorrow.
Regarding ALL the information revolving around the Kennedy/Oswald assassination; I really don't believe ANY of it, no matter what the source. I figure if the Warren Commission would not reveal any more facts and evidence than they did and ignored all the questions that begged to be addressed, nobody could be trusted. If it was not a huge conspiracy, it sure held the markings of one, and still does.
As far as Ruby is concerned, I saw nothing about him to be respected or admired. He seemed to be just another low-life, murdering, player and pawn being used, as did Oswald.
Those were the days when the press really bent over backward to protect anyone who they favored, i.e., JFK's/RFK's shenanigans with MM, the Mob,deep-space government, etc., etc. The press is without credibility today but do you remember a time when it was credible in terms of being transparent and genuinely seeking to be objective? Not me. I guess when a machine is that susceptible to being used/manipulated by power-players as a propaganda tool it is helpless in terms of holding any sense of independence and integrity.
Man, do I sound pessimistic? Guess so. If I talk about Jesus I get really optimistic and positive. Maybe I should stick to Him.
With reference to things like assassinations and the like, a strange human tendency seems to kick in.One is that, as time passes, hard evidence fades, is lost, etc. Second, people's imaginations continue and may grow stronger over time. And those two feed on each other; hence the abundance of conspiracies that seems to keep growing, as hard evidence fades. Especially true when the actions too simple.
I recall it all quite vividly, including all the following reports, etc. And also Jack Ruby's getting shot, live on TV. And it happened just the way history says.
Whoops. I meant I watched Lee Harvey Oswald getting shot.
I plead advanced age .....
"assassinations"
This reminds me of a question floating around on the internet: how important does one to be in order to be assassinated instead of simply murdered?
Bob,
How can you say? “And it happened just the way history says” when history is not over. (Trump has not released all the files on the JFK assignation.
https://psmag.com/news/jfk-files-conspiracy-theories
(I’ve reduced many pages to this below.)
Several million pages of records pertaining to the assassination were ordered sealed for 75 years. On August 7, 2017, over 3,800 CIA and FBI documents related to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy were released to the public. The remaining 70,000 pages were to remain fully classified for 25 years, when all of the documents were to be released in full, barring the intercession of the president.
James Tague was injured by a “fourth bullet” when there were only three shells in the sniper’s nest. Thus, the Warren Commission had to invent the “magic bullet”.
50 years after the assignation, he wrote a book over 300 page, “LBJ and the Kennedy Killing” that proves Oswald was a patsy. Tague and I lived about five miles apart, and we became friends. I believe he was ‘shut up’ by cancer just like Ruby. I was one of 17 people at his funeral.
Bob, Wade has read Tague’s book, ask him what he thinks.
P.S.
Our Baptist Association Missionary, a retired missionary from Hungry, Darrel Hathcock, got my computer out of “read only mode”. 😊
Rex Ray: It was easy. "And it happened just the way history says”.
See my previous comment.
Bob Cleveland,
You said for me to see your previous comment. Here it is:
“With reference to things like assassinations and the like, a strange human tendency seems to kick in. One is that, as time passes, hard evidence fades, is lost, etc. Second, people's imaginations continue and may grow stronger over time. And those two feed on each other; hence the abundance of conspiracies that seems to keep growing, as hard evidence fades. Especially true when the actions too simple.
I recall it all quite vividly, including all the following reports, etc. And also, Jack Ruby's [Oswald’s] getting shot, live on TV. And it happened just the way history says.”
Now if your “it” refers only to the picture of Oswald getting shot, then I agree that history recorded the picture correctly.
Tague’s book. I’ll skim through page 406-410: “Mac” Wallace joined the Marines. While teaching at the University of Texas he met Senator LBJ, and worked for him in the Department of Agriculture. LBJ believed he was being blackmailed and tricked Mac into believing a guy was sleeping with his wife. Mac killed him. The jury found him guilty of murder, but the judge overruled and sentence him to five years, suspended.
“Billie Sol Estes told me [Tague] that Cliff Carter knew of seventeen murders that Mac had committed for LBJ.” “After Mac started bragging of murders, he had committed for LBJ and wanting more money, he was killed in 1971 the way he killed; by the exhaust flowing into his car. He passed out and hit a bridge.
(Page 406) In 1998, the unidentified fingerprints in the ‘sniper’s window’ were identified as Mac’s.
James Files who was 21 years old at the time was behind the picket fence that overlooked the parade. He said he shot JFK in the head with a mercury bullet. (Mercury is like gold in that it never disintegrates.) Mac’s bullet nocked Kennedy’s head forward a split second before Files’ bullet nocked his head backward.
There’s a way to prove if there was a conspiracy or not. If an autopsy of JFK’s skull revealed a trace of mercury, then Files was telling the truth because all other bullets were led. Files has been paroled from a 50-year prison sentence.
I’ll give five thousand dollars to any of JFK’s relatives who gives permission and gets an examination of his skull by honest and truthful people. Maybe Trump would supervise. 😊
History may not be over until the fat lady sings.
"And it happened just the way history says."
Bob, I was wondering if you were saying that "tongue in cheek" so as to be facetious? Surely you aren't serious.
We see history being changed and written with bias constantly. For instance, JFK was never the hero which he became after "history" wrote his epitaph. Same goes for MLK, RFK. We see "history" being changed as it is taught in today's schools, which, by the way, seems to be a dying practice. So many schools are not even teaching "history" today.
Rex Ray, you, and I all watched on television as these things played out, but we never were privy to the details of what was going on behind the scenes and off-camera. Perhaps the subsequent records were accurate, but there were so many unanswered questions that it feeds the skepticism and makes a lot of us cynical. Guess I always will be.
please pray for this child's recovery
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/01/us/west-texas-shooting-17-month-old-trnd/index.html
the bullet tore her lip and tongue and shattered her teeth, and she has shrapnel in her chest
May God have mercy on us all.
CHRISTIANE,
Thank you for having a loving heart for children.
The link below tells how Seth Ator, started his shooting spree. He became angry when two Highway Patrol Officers gave him a ticket in Midland, Texas when he changed lanes without signaling. (Sounds picky-picky to me.) He wounded one with his rifle. (BTW, I taught high school metal shop two years in Midland.)
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/01/us/texas-shooting-what-we-know/index.html
Why would Ator have an assault rifle in his car and go on a killing spree knowing he would probably be killed? I believe a name like “Ator” sounds a little Muslim. That would give a reason why he did what he did.
But the internet says he wasn’t a Muslim. But maybe it’s like Wade said: “Don’t believe everything on the internet.”
Hello REX RAY,
From what I have heard of this, he was a very angry, enraged individual who had just been fired (maybe because he was angry and enraged?). If he was mentally and emotionally ill, that isn't a 'reason' for his access to such weapons, no. There are many who suffer from mental illness and emotional upset who are NOT 'mass murderers', so I do think pinning this evil on to the 'mentally ill' is not productive, no. They already live under a great deal of persecution from those who do not know much about mental illness, so this just makes life more of a hell for those who are innocent of wrong doing but who suffer from what others cannot know in their own lives.
As for Muslims, I don't share your views there, no. Nor do I share how many have seen them in this country. If I think about Muslim people that I know, I think about the doctor who treated my father's heart troubles with compassion and patient care. And the surgeon who saved my eldest son's life when he was hurt in a group home, she was a Muslim doctor from another country and I was grateful for her professional expertise and concern for my son's recovery.
In my Church, we see Muslims differently than evangelical people see them. So that may account for my refusal to see them as 'bad people' in general. I do not. I harbor no ill will towards them and I hope in this country people will begin to know them on a one-to-one basis so that all this fear of those Muslims who are our own countrymen and women will end.
How's your health doing? Hope you had a wonderful week-end. Stay focused on following your doctor's orders. Keep appointments. I hope Judy will help you stay organized with all of this, as I tend to make sure my own husband does obey his doctors and keep regular appointments. Take care!
CHRISTIANE,
You’re right. I didn’t know the guy got fired, and with my ‘filter’ from experiences and stories of the actions of Muslims, I jumped to the wrong conclusion that Thor gone ‘crazy’ was a Muslim.
Once I spent three months being treated by a dentist for pain in my upper gum. I told him it started when a filling fell out of a tooth in my bottom gum. He said that was coincidental.
I got pain medicine from the VA. A nurse told me something was wrong and got a VA doctor to take a look. In one minute he said, “Have your lost filling on your lower gum replaced and you won’t hurt anymore.”
I argued, “But it’s on the bottom.” He said, “You have ‘referred pain’. I took his advice and the pain stopped.
I was so impressed I asked the VA for him to be my primary doctor. That was about nine years ago. His last name is Mohammed. (And Judy is sure I see doctors.) 😊
RB Kuter,
I believe Sirhan-Sirhan was hypnotized to shoot at balloons and NONE of his 8 bullets hit Robert Kennedy.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-01/rfk-assassin-sirhan-sirhan-stabbing-prison-return
The link above states three 3 days ago Sirhan-Sirhan left a hospital to return to prison where he was stabbed.
Kennedy’s Campaign Team’s actions to Hillary’s. They became worried there wasn’t enough bodyguards and hired Thane Eugene Cesar from Ace Guard Service.
Cesar was a 26-year-old plumber who worked part time as a guard. He was a strong supporter of George Wallace who was running for President as the candidate for the American Independent Party. Cesar was outspoken in his hatred of the Kennedys which I believe endured him to LBJ who at the time was President of the U.S.
It looked like Robert Kennedy would easily become President the way he was winning primaries. He still had proof that Johnson had a thousand-dollar kickback from a Fort Worth Aircraft firm. Also schemes that paid Johnson millions with Billy Sol Estes and Bobby Baker.
Cesar had Kennedy by the arm. I don’t believe he planned to kill Kennedy, but when a stranger (Sirhan) started shooting, Cesar saw an opportunity to improve the chance of Wallace becoming President by removing a man he hated. Cesar held Kennedy in front of him. In that position no one could see him fire his gun and everyone would think the stranger killed Kennedy.
The autopsy revealed Kennedy was shot from behind at an upward angle three times that left powder burns behind his ear and powder burns on his clothing caused by a gun held against his back.
Paul Schrade (who has told Sirhan’s parole-board that someone else killed Kennedy) was walking behind Kennedy. Sirhan shot twice toward Kennedy with his gun level. His first shot wounded Schrade. His next shot passed through Kennedy’s shoulder pad without hurting him. After that Sirhan’s arm was held down on a table by two large men, but Sirhan kept pulling the trigger until his gun was empty which wounded five people. (At Sirhan’s trial, the bullets in these people were not compared to the bullets in Kennedy because ‘substitute’ bullets were presented that looked the same.) Because he kept pulling the trigger would indicate Sirhan’s mind was not rational but was hypnotized to keep firing his gun at what he thought were balloons.
Daniel Brown, a professor in psychology at Harvard Medical School interviewed Sirhan for 60 hours over a three-year period. Sirhan does not remember the assassination, but only being at a gun range and shooting at circular targets. Brown believes Sirhan was programmed to shoot by being hypnotized and was lured to the hotel by a young woman in a polka dot dress. https://www.cnn.com/2012/04/28/justice/california-rfk-second-gun/index.html
Rhodes-Hughes was a television actress who worked as a volunteer fundraiser of Kennedy. She told CNN in 2012 that she saw Sirhan shooting from her left and heard gunshots from her right that were near Kennedy. The FBI interview her at her home, and she told them she heard 12 to 14 shots. Their report said she only heard 8. She told the FBI she would be glad to testify but they never called her.
At the time, Edgar Hoover was head of the FBI. The day after JFK was killed, he sent a secret internal memo: “The Bureau must convince the public Oswald is the real Assassin.” It’s easy to see the FBI didn’t want the truth how the two brothers were murdered. Did the FBI or maybe President LBJ influence the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) to destroy their photographs of many bullet holes in the ceiling and door frame? Years later, the hotel was demolished.
Stanislaw Pruszynski had his cassette recorder going. All the shooting was in less than six seconds. The recorder revealed eight gunshots had the same sound and were the 1st, 2nd,4th, 6th,7th,9th,11th, and 13th. These shots would be Sirhan’s since he was the first to shoot. Louder gunshots were the 3rd,5th,8th,10th, and 12th shots. Days before, Sirhan had been shooting on a practice range and would have been using regular 22 bullets while Cesar’s, a body guard, would be using larger long-rifle 22 bullets that made a louder noise. Since Kennedy was hit 3 times, why did Cesar shoot 5 times? I can imagine with the first two bullets in his back, Kennedy jerked away causing shots 8th and 10th to miss. Cesar’s 12 shot left powder burns behind Kennedy’s ear.
Cesar told authorities he pulled his gun but never fired it. No one tested his gun if it had been fired. Later he said it was stolen, but much later it was found in a shallow pond. Its bullets matched the ones in Kennedy. Soon after the shooting, Cesar disappeared in the Philippians.
I believe Cesar didn’t plan to kill Kennedy, but when Sirhan started shooting, he saw he could kill Kennedy without being seen and everyone would think it was the other shooter.
Now, how does President LBJ fit into this? Going back in history.
https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/generic/VP_Lyndon_Johnson.htm This Link states:
“I think a fair assessment would be that there was a big sigh of relief when Johnson departed the Senate. Not that they didn't like Johnson . . . but he was so strong, and so difficult, and so tough, that it was a relief to get him over to the vice president's office. —Senator George A. Smathers
The only thing that astonished politicians and the press more than John F. Kennedy's offer of the vice-presidential nomination to Lyndon B. Johnson was Johnson's acceptance. Neither man particularly liked the other, and their styles contrasted starkly. Kennedy cultivated a smooth, sophisticated and self-deprecating image, while Johnson often appeared boorish, bullying and boastful. In the U.S. Senate, Johnson, as majority leader, for years had stood second only to the president of the United States in power and influence, whereas Kennedy was an unimpressive back bencher. Although Kennedy's choice for the second spot on the ticket dismayed his liberal supporters, the candidate recognized that Johnson could help him carry Texas and the South and that he would undoubtedly be easier to deal with as vice president than as majority leader. Johnson's reasons for accepting were more enigmatic, for he was trading a powerful job for a powerless one.”
The father of JFK convinced him to select LBJ as vice president to bring in more votes, and they defeated Nixon in a close race. JFK didn’t need LBJ to get elected again, and planned to drop him as vice-president in the upcoming election. In fact, Robert Kennedy as Attorney General had evidence against LBJ to put him in prison. LBJ had received 100,000 dollars ‘kickback’ from General Dynamics for the F-111 fighter contract. LBJ got Billy Sol Estes to buy all the farmer’s cotton allotments because he knew the Government was going to pay farmers NOT to plant cotton. It made Billy Sol a millionaire and he gave thousands back to LBJ. Also LBJ made a crooked deal with Bobby Baker.
When Robert heard his brother was killed, he got that evidence from his office for safe keeping. With LBJ as President, Robert knew he could not accomplish anything with the evidence. But it would be a different story if Robert became President and LBJ knew it also. I believe he got someone to hypnotize Sirhan-Sirhan to kill Robert Kennedy. Who else had the power to prevent the jury from seeing the autopsy that reveled powder burns in Robert’s back and behind his ear, and remove pictures of ceiling panels and door frames that revealed more than 8 bullets, and made all the bullets the same?
RB Ruter,
In my previous post, this statement made a lot of sense: “Kennedy recognized that Johnson could help him carry Texas and the South and that he would undoubtedly be easier to deal with as vice president than as majority leader. Johnson's reasons for accepting were more enigmatic, for he was trading a powerful job for a powerless one.”
JFK dealt with LBJ by keeping him at a distance. It was like he was forgotten in politics.
I didn’t know what enigmatic meant so I asked Google: “mysterious, puzzling, baffling, unexplainable.”
The last chapter in Teague’s book explains LBJ’s reason. (p.415-418) “Lawrence Factor was a full-blooded Oklahoma Indian with the reputation of being an expert marksman with a rifle. He was a WWII veteran. He had a steel plate in his head from shrapnel and received $76/month from the VA.
In 1961, he and his family drove about 50 miles to Bonham, Texas to attended the funeral of Sam Rayburn. They wanted to see President JFK. A stranger started talking to Factor. The conversation led to firearms, and Factor told him about his marksmanship. The stranger got Factor’s address and said he might have a job for him in the future.
About a year later, the stranger came to Factor’s home and had him demonstrate his marksmanship. The stranger was LBJ’s friend, Mac Wallace. He told the Indian, he could make a lot of money working for the right people. Without any specifics, Mac offered him a job that paid $10,000, with $2,000 that day, and it might be a year before he was needed. The money was like a million dollars to the Indian and he took it. When he learned what the job was, he was in too deep to back out. A dark-skinned man was seen in the West window. He described how they took an elevator down and ran out the back door. He said he shot but never hit anyone. I believe his bullet hit the concrete that injured Tague.
CHRISTIANE,
It seems I can’t get a reply from Ruter, so I’ll address this to you.
https://www.quora.com/Where-was-Lyndon-Johnson-located-the-moment-Kennedy-got-shot
This link states:
Richard Pruett
Updated Jul 18, 2019 · Author has 85 answers and 188.2k answer views
At the moment Pres. Kennedy was first shot, and even before, Vice Pres. Lyndon B. Johnson was already ducking low in his convertible.
Dallas Police Officer Billy Joe "B.J" Martin said that according to his fellow motorcycle cops escorting the VIP’s convertible in the motorcade, Johnson was seen ducking down in his car a good 30 to 40 seconds before the first shots were fired, even before the car turned onto Houston street. added Martin, "our new president is either one jumpy son of a bitch or he knows something he's not telling about the Kennedy thing.”
LBJ was ducking because he knew bullets would soon be flying.
The story of how Agent Rufus Youngblood threw himself on top of Johnson after the shooting began in Dealey Plaza was just one of the many lies perpetrated by the Johnson Administration, this time by Johnson himself. In a statement to the Warren Commission, LBJ gave his version of the incident:
I was startled by a sharp report or explosion, but I had no time to speculate as to its origin because Agent Youngblood turned in a flash, immediately after the first explosion, hitting me on the shoulder, and shouted to all of us in the back seat to get down. I was pushed down by Agent Youngblood. Almost in the same moment in which he hit or pushed me, he vaulted over the back seat and sat on me. I was bent over under the weight of Agent Youngblood's body, toward Mrs. Johnson and Senator Yarborough....
Ralph Yarborough, U.S. Senator for Texas at the time, and seated next to Johnson and his wife, remembered it very differently. As he told JFK Assassination researcher Jim Marrs:
'It just didn't happen.... It was a small car, Johnson was a big man, tall. His knees were up against his chin as it was. There was no room for that to happen.' Yarborough recalled that both Johnson and Youngblood ducked down and that Youngblood never left the front seat. Yarborough said Youngblood held a small walkie-talkie over the back of the car's seat and that he and Johnson both put their ears to the device. He added: 'They had it turned down real low. I couldn't hear what they were listening to.'"
--Jim Marrs, Crossfire: The Plot that Killed Kennedy"
http://educationforum.ipbhost.co...
The Zapruder film was altered while in FBI custody. Portions of it were excised and portions of it manipulated and even altered using the best pre-Photoshop technology of the time. Many researchers believe the area most excised was the portion showing the motorcade turning onto Elm Street, perhaps for the very reason that it showed LBJ already ducking in his limo.
When neither his secretary nor the district court judge could find a copy of the oath of office aboard Air Force One, LBJ PRODUCED ONE FROM HIS POCKET. A famous photograph of the swearing-in ceremony shows him taking the oath while standing beside a shocked Jackie Kennedy. The photograph immediately following, however, is much more telling — in it, LBJ can be seen sharing a smiling wink with key supporter Texas Congressman Albert Thomas.
LBJ’s mistress of over 20 years, and the mother of one of his illegitimate children, has recounted how LBJ told her on the eve of the assassination: “Darlin’, after tomorrow, those sumabitches Kennedys are never goanna embarrass me again. That’s not a threat; that’s a promise!” He repeated the threat to her in a telephone call the next morning.
The testimonies and confessions of Judith Vary Baker, Tosh Plumlee, Dan Marvin, Marita Lorenz, James Files, E. Howard Hunt [deathbed confession], and numerous others have blown the lid off of the Kennedy Assassination. If you haven’t heard about these, it’s because you’re still feeding only on the pablum fed you by the corporate mainstream media, a puppet of the very same Military-Industrial Complex of which Eisenhower warned us in 1961, and which became the Deep State less than three years later — on Nov. 22, 1963, to be exact
Christiane, I disagree with Wade in believing LBJ is in his grave, while I believe he’s were its much hotter.
Rex Ray, still with you, just slow.
The LBJ rationale for accepting the position of VP is truly cloaked, or "enigmatic", as you say was JFK's description.
LBJ was probably the most powerful politician in Congress at the time, at least one of the most powerful. He also had his notions about what he would do if he was in control of things because once he became President he immediately enacted a huge agenda of legislation that would have required a lot of forethought and planning. It was obvious that he had this on his mind for a long time. It wasn't just spontaneous. Like me, I bet he had already written his own book on "When I Am President", even if he had not had it published, prior to being President!
LBJ surely would have accomplished more of his agenda had he remained Senator than his being a "VP" unless that VP position led to his becoming President, which really didn't seem very likely when he was made VP. JFK was so young and the chances of his winning a second term would have been likely. By the time LBJ would have been a Presidential candidate he would have been a much older man and an unlikely choice to be the Democratic candidate in 1968. Accepting the "VP" nomination wouldn't seem to be an attractive option, unless....
Kennedy surely did humiliate LBJ as VP too. It was so obvious that LBJ was a pawn to win the election for JFK, as you mention, and that could well have been the only motivating factor behind his being chosen to be VP.
All of these things are so obvious that it is not conjecture. It is as apparent as the nose on your face. However, pursuing those dynamics as being motivating factors in the assassination does require speculation and conjecture, even when supported by collateral facts.
Here's one thing that I don't think I have heard considered; What about the fact that JFK and the Kennedy family, in general, were hated by Richard Nixon? Nixon suffered a tremendously bitter defeat when running against JFK in 1960. It seems he never overcame that grief and it nearly ended his very long political career. When it comes to all the many, many parties who had a motive for eliminating JFK from the scene, he would have surely been one who would have been considered to have a motive. Perhaps there was never enough smoke to attract attention to Nixon as being a suspect worth trailing.
Robert Kennedy's murder is a puzzler, as was his older brother, and made so by his having so many enemies with the means to make it happen. He had gained some tremendously fearful and deadly enemies when dealing with the mafia AND Mr. Hoover as he served as JFK's attorney general. That's not to mention his also apparently been involved with big brother's main squeeze, MM. She was also apparently close to one of the big mafia bosses.
So many rings of corruption, sleaze and disgusting abuse of power by so many parties from so many camps. The devil must have been dancing a jig.
It is all so mysterious, cloaked in intentional government secrecy so as to never allow the theories and conjecture to cease. Whatever there was to cause it to remain in secrecy by the government for all these decades and continue to be buried must have been so big as to have caused the foundations of our government institution to be shaken were it ever revealed and made transparent. It is critical that there remains some semblance of trust in our government otherwise we would have total anarchy and that is probably the main contributing factor as to why it has never been, nor likely to be, exposed.
One other personal reflection on LBJ, if I may;
I believe that it is assessed that LBJ pushed more legislation through Congress than any President had done prior to his time. When you reflect on all that he did while President in terms of laws written and passed it is mind-boggling.
Most of LBJ's agenda had to do with Civil Rights and social welfare reform legislation, but not all. I am thankful that I am one who continues to benefit from his Medicare package even though I thought it to be "socialist" at the time. (I'm always against leftist ideas unless I am one who benefits from it!).
I am ashamed to say that I was brought up to be a southern racist during those times of the 50s and early 60s. I was opposed to all of LBJ's efforts to address the terrible civil rights injustice going on during those dark years in our nation's life. Many of the aggressive and assertive measures that LBJ led to be enacted ended up in huge progress being made to remedy our conditions of racial injustice. True, a lot of the measures turned out to not be the wisest and most practical approaches for providing remedies but still, huge progress was made.
Even though LBJ had his faults, I personally will always admire and be thankful for the many achievements he made in "forcing" a lot of this country, including myself, to face up to the terrible, un-Godly, apartheid approaches and mentality we had prior to his Presidency. Admittedly, I was a young teen during a lot of this time, but I was quite involved in political issues and all of this heavy-handed government intervention into the private sector riled me to no end.
LBJ was really the one to implement painful changes (in the minds of people like me they were painful) like forced busing and affirmative action measures in all business and the military. I despised it at the time. I could not reconcile new employees being hired in the company where I worked and put into positions better than mine because they were "black". I could not deal with 80% of those chosen to get promoted above me when I was serving in the Marines being "black" while we "whites" were passed over.
But, it all proved to have been absolutely necessary and almost all of us were changed as a result, for the better. I believe that LBJ's aggressive and extremely bold moves accelerated the remedies being made in our nation's civil rights movement more than anyone. He has never received the acclaim and acknowledgment that he deserved for serving as perhaps the most effective and productive civil rights crusader our nation has ever had.
Perhaps he is overlooked because he was "white", or older, or physically not attractive and not charismatic. In my book, he is a hero, unless someday someone proves he was, without a doubt, behind Kennedy's demise.
RB Kuter,
Glad you replied. Yes, LBJ advanced Civil Rights ten times more than JFK could have done because a bully gets things done were the average person fails.
I learned LBJ was a bully by two events. The first was from Tague’s book (page 295). Teague was a car dealer who worked for billionaire, Frank Late, who owned 42 Corporations. He had a 38,000 acre ranch with a lodge near LBJ’s lake home.
Everyone in the lodge had been drinking and joking around when President LBJ entered wearing a $500 Stetson hat. His favorite drink was put in his hand and Late told him he shouldn’t be wearing a hat inside. He took LBJ’s hat off and tossed it on a table and everyone chuckled. A few minutes later LBJ had his hat back on. Late yanked it off, saying xxx it Lyndon, you do not wear your hat in the house.”
Secret Service Agents came to attention. Soon LBJ had his hat back on. Late yanked it off, threw it on the floor and stomped it flat. “Let’s see you wear that xxx hat in the house now Lyndon!” Even LBJ laughed at what Late had done.
I condensed Tague’s book to ten pages and passed them out a lot, which led to the second event that LBJ was a bully.
While in a doctor’s waiting room, a woman said, “My father was in grade school with LBJ and it was a known fact if you didn’t watch your lunch, he would steal it.”
Rex Ray said, "Yes, LBJ advanced Civil Rights ten times more than JFK could have done because a bully gets things done were the average person fails."
You're so right RR. I always read that the reason LBJ was so effective in getting things done with Congress was that he really knew how to play the politician's game of getting and giving favors and that was not always pretty. I imagine Ladybird would say that he was not an easy husband to live with. I have no doubt he was a bully, but maybe that's why they call it a "bully pulpit"!
I imagine that President Trump can be a similar bully to get things done that he wants done, like LBJ. Both were/are "wheeler-dealers" and no matter whether you "like" them or not, they do get things done that they intend to get done. If you like the same things to be done that they intend to do then you will not be disappointed.
I consider, if I had a brain tumor and the surgeon to perform the procedure to remove it came in to explain things prior to surgery and had NO "bed-side" manners but just said gruffly, "I'm gonna get that /$+@# thing outta there!", I would feel a LOT better than one who came in saying, "Don't be afraid. I'm gonna be gentle and careful not to make it hurt and will be sure not to leave much of a scar when it's finished."
T supporters done found them a more authentic gospel: 'git 'er done'
https://weeklysift.com/2018/01/29/trumps-evangelical-toadies-are-destroying-the-christian-brand/
Hope "Anonymous" is more bold in identifying with Christ than he is himself.
RH Ruter,
The doctor that said, "I'm gonna get that /$+@# thing outta there!" caused me to remember worrying when a chiropractor was almost swearing because some lady was suing him. I hoped he wouldn’t break my back.
It’s been proven that people that steal may kill to keep from being caught. Example is David having Uriah killed to cover up stealing his wife.
I believe LBJ graduated from stealing lunches in grade school to murder.
Tague’s book; page 389-390:
Billie Sol Estes was paid millions of dollars by the U.S. Government not to grow cotton on hundreds of acres he had leased on a tip from LBJ. Henry Marshall’s investigation was pointing to corruption in Washington. LBJ was Vice President and he decided he could use his influence to get Marshall promoted to a major position in the Agriculture Department in Washington with a big raise in pay. Marshall saw through the bribe and turned it down.
Marshall was found dead on his ranch. He had been shot in his side five times with a 22-bolt-action-rifle. The Sheriff ordered the Justice of Peace to put suicide on the death certificate.
Clint Peoples was a Federal Marshall. He had investigated the murder trial of Mac Wallace when he killed LBJ’s sister’s boyfriend. He was stunned when the jury found him guilty of murder but the judge gave him a five-year suspended sentence. Senator LBJ’s influence was suspected by many.
In 1962, Peoples was asked by Colonel Homer Garrison, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety to look into the mysterious death of Henry Marshall. Peoples interviewed Nolan Griffin, a gas station attendant who remembered a stranger asking directions to Marshall’s ranch on the day of his death. Peoples had an artist draw a sketch of the man Griffin saw. Peoples recognize the sketch as Mac Wallace.
Marshall Clint Peoples went public and stated he had documentary evidence that Malcolm “Mac” Wallace, Lyndon Johnson’s hit man, was one of the gunman in the Texas School Book Depository when JFK was murdered. Four days later Clint Peoples was killed in a one-car accident.
Rex Ray, wouldn't it be nice to know all the truth about dirty politicians and all those involved in corruption, including murder? The list would be long, I am thinking.
I guess I am gleaning all I can that may be good from bad situations. LBJ was no doubt a stinker. Still, it seems apparent to me that he was convicted about the injustices in our country. Perhaps his convictions were so intense as to lead him to commit crimes or dirty politics to achieve what he thought were admirable and honorable deeds.
I know, I know, the "honorable ends" do not justify the "evil means". I am not proposing that you go to the abortion clinics and begin sniping doctors or blowing them up in an effort to save innocent infants. I'm just saying that a LOT of things changed for the better in terms of opening doors for our black citizens as a result of Johnson's aggressive measures taken in the late 60s, early 70s. I know I sure changed, thank God.
Crossing the Rubicon
the Pentagon now using Trump facilities (?)
On previous trips to the Middle East, the C-17 had landed at U.S. air bases such as Ramstein Air Base in Germany or Naval Station Rota in Spain to refuel, according to one person familiar with the trips. Occasionally the plane stopped in the Azores and once in Sigonella, Italy, both of which have U.S. military sites, the person added.
But on this particular trip, the plane landed in Glasgow — a pitstop the five-man crew had never experienced in their dozens of trips to the Middle East. The location lacked a U.S. base and was dozens of miles away from the crew’s overnight lodging at the Turnberry resort.
Had the crew needed to make a stop in the U.K., Lakenheath Air Base is situated nearby in England. The layover might have been cheaper, too: the military gets billed at a higher rate for fuel at commercial airports.
One crew member was so struck by the choice of hotel — markedly different than the Marriotts and Hiltons the 176th maintenance squadron is used to — that he texted someone close to him and told him about the stay, sending a photo and noting that the crew’s per diem allowance wasn’t enough to cover food and drinks at the ritzy resort.
The revelation that an Air Force mission may have helped line the president’s pockets )On previous trips to the Middle East, the C-17 had landed at U.S. air bases such as Ramstein Air Base in Germany or Naval Station Rota in Spain to refuel, according to one person familiar with the trips. Occasionally the plane stopped in the Azores and once in Sigonella, Italy, both of which have U.S. military sites, the person added.
But on this particular trip, the plane landed in Glasgow — a pitstop the five-man crew had never experienced in their dozens of trips to the Middle East. The location lacked a U.S. base and was dozens of miles away from the crew’s overnight lodging at the Turnberry resort.
Had the crew needed to make a stop in the U.K., Lakenheath Air Base is situated nearby in England. The layover might have been cheaper, too: the military gets billed at a higher rate for fuel at commercial airports.
One crew member was so struck by the choice of hotel — markedly different than the Marriotts and Hiltons the 176th maintenance squadron is used to — that he texted someone close to him and told him about the stay, sending a photo and noting that the crew’s per diem allowance wasn’t enough to cover food and drinks at the ritzy resort.
The revelation that an Air Force mission may have helped line the president’s pockets ___
RB Kuter,
You said, “Perhaps his [LBJ] convictions were so intense as to lead him to commit crimes or dirty politics to achieve what he thought were admirable and honorable deeds.”
LBJ’s main honorable deed was for him to be President. To help achieve that is written in Teague’s book (pages 411-412):
Josefa Johnson, the sister of LBJ, was born in 1912. She’d been married three times and divorced. She had two children. In 1951, LBJ thought she and her boy-friend were blackmailing him, and had tricked Mac Wallace to kill her boy-friend.
Her alcoholism took a toll on her health. She was hospitalized several times. She became a prostitute and lived in a whorehouse in Cuero, Texas. She was an embarrassment to Vice President LBJ.
JHK was killed in 1962. The year before, Josefa returned to her home after attending a party at her brother’s ranch. She died that night at the age of 49. No one witnessed her death. The death certificate was signed by a doctor who was not there. There was no autopsy, no inquest, no examination. She was embalmed the same day on Christmas and buried the next.
In 1984, Billie Sol Estes, who had been given immunity, was sworn in by a Grand Jury. They heard him say that he heard Cliff Carter and Mac Wallace bragging how Mac had killed Josefa Johnson on orders from her brother, Vice president Lyndon Johnson.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/do-conservative-evangelicals-like-trump-for-his-hatefulness.html
Anonymous,
I deleted what I didn’t like and showed what I liked. Thanks.
For many, the eight years of the Obama administration felt like a nightmare…the night the Supreme Court ruled gay marriage legal across the land and Obama flooded the White House in rainbow lights.
“I think conservatives for decades have felt bullied by the left, and the default response was to roll over and take it, Jeffress said. But Trump enacted a practice of hitting back twice as hard whenever a critic takes him on.”
“The president is having to deal with a den of vipers. It’s spiritual warfare, Dale Ivy added, emphasizing Trump is the only man in the field who seems strong enough to confront it.”
RB Kuter,
I retired as a Tool Designer from LTV (Ling Temco Vought). That’s the company that Mac Wallace went to work for as a purchasing agent, after a judge overruled the jury’s verdict of murder, and gave him a five-year-suspended sentence. His job gave him freedom to travel, and make a lot of money doing ‘jobs’ for LBJ.
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/history/f-111.html
The link above states: “General Dynamics won the US Department of Defense contract in 1962 to develop a supersonic aircraft.”
How did General Dynamics win this seven billion dollar Government Contract to build the F-111 fighter? Maybe they were the ‘highest bidder’ to give a ‘kickback’. Attorney General Robert Kennedy had proof they gave LBJ $100,000.
I worked eight years as a machinist making parts for the F-111. Is it strange I worked for one company that paid LBJ, and retired from another that hired his ‘hit’ man?
I believe sometimes LBJ’s halo looked more like horns.
You could very well be right, Rex Ray. One day, maybe we will know all but not be interested.
Trump's den of vipers?
Goodness, is the President that threatened by the asylum babies and toddlers he took away from parents and placed into those notorious 'tender-age' shelters?
I'm not worried. I believe that on the Day of the Lord, there will be justice for Trump.
He will have his reward.
" One day, maybe we will know all but not be interested."
RB - most aren't interested now because it's not in the propaganda news outlets. Most people don't know or care that the University of Alaska Fairbanks' study released this month proves NIST was lying about World Trade Center building #7 and how it collapsed.
Which is why it was(n't) plastered all over the mainstream news.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZADmzHGfVGQ
Ken
RB Kuter,
You said, “You could very well be right, Rex Ray. One day, maybe we will know all but not be interested.”
I believe the day JHK was killed was the day America started losing faith in its Government. Maybe when America accepts how evil LBJ was and “the truth will set you free”, the “LBJ Freeway” in Dallas will be renamed as well as the LBJ Library. I mean there’s not anything in Germany that honors Hitler.
Ken,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_response_during_the_September_11_attacks
The link above tells in much detail of the confusion how the Air Force tried to stop the highjacked airplanes. Some airplanes didn’t have any means of stopping them other than crashing into them.
Ken,
The most I got from your link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZADmzHGfVGQ
was someone quoting Mark Twain: “It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.”
Hey! Kuter, that’ll preach. 😊
"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_response_during_the_September_11_attacks
The link above tells in much detail of the confusion how the Air Force tried to stop the highjacked airplanes. Some airplanes didn’t have any means of stopping them other than crashing into them."
Rex, Like many others, I don't consider Wiki to be that reliable of a source for info. Frankly, it's overrated. Did you know many colleges don't allow students to cite it in their source in research/papers?
"The most I got from your link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZADmzHGfVGQ
was someone quoting Mark Twain: “It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.”"
Ha! you're supposed to watch the video instead of only reading the comments. :) :)
Ken
Ken, sorry; I don’t get much from videos since I don’t have sound.
One reason I liked Mark Twain’s “It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled”, it helps explain why I can’t get Kuter to stop thinking of LBJ as a hero.
If LBJ didn’t have anything to hide, why did he order every document concerning the assignation of JFK to be locked up for 75 years?
Tague’s book, page 319: “One time, his wife caught him with one of his secretaries in the Oval Office. After that LBJ set up a system to warn him when Lady Bird was around.”
Page 391-392: “Barr McClellan was an attorney for Edward Clark law firm. Edward Clark and LBJ were close friends as well as Clark handled LBJ’s legal problems going back before LBJ stole his 1948 Senate race…
Barr got Mac Wallace’s fingerprints from Mac’s murder trial, and the only unidentified print in the ‘Sniper’s window’. He gave them to one of the best-recognized print experts in the country, Nathan Darby. Darby was not told who the prints were. They were a perfect match.”
"Ken, sorry; I don’t get much from videos since I don’t have sound. "
Well, that's helpful to know, Rex. Here's the textual gist:
https://www.securitymagazine.com/articles/90893-university-study-finds-fire-did-not-cause-3rd-towers-collapse-on-911
"...said Professor Hulsey. "We simulated every plausible scenario, and we found that the series of failures that NIST claimed triggered a progressive collapse of the entire structure could not have occurred. The only thing that could have brought this structure down in the manner observed on 9/11 is the ****near-simultaneous failure of every column***** in the building below Floor 17.""
People need to quit putting authority (GOV) before logic. All three towers fell/pancaked in symmetry due to controlled demolition. Not from fires!!! The airplanes and the hijackers were simply diversions to get sheeple to believe the official story.
Ken
Hi Ken,
What does you theory say about how the explosive charges were installed in all three buildings without anyone noticing?
Rex Ray said, "someone quoting Mark Twain: “It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.”
Hey! Kuter, that’ll preach"
Okay, RR, let me think about that, "easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled."...hmmm...yes, I guess I would have to agree with that.
As a matter of fact, it seems that people are walking around begging to be fooled these days. I guess that has always been the case. I was conversing with a Jehovah Witness this week. No matter what you say to convince them they have been fooled by the shucksters (Is there such a word?), Charles Taze Russell, Watch Tower Society and the rest, they absolutely are committed to their foolishness and will take it all the way to hell with them.
I don't believe I am "fooled" by LBJ in thinking that he was a stellar individual with admirable qualities and virtues. I totally concede that he was no doubt corrupt and could believe he might have been involved in a conspiracy to do away with JFK. I did not intend to appear to defend him as being virtuous by any means although I can see how my comments about him being a "hero" could be interpreted as my saying that. I guess I misspoke in that regard.
I did want to say that a lot of the measures taken by the Federal government during his tenure as President did impact the civil injustices we were dealing with, even though I did not like them at that time. Today I believe they were necessary. But the character of the man, LBJ, that is indeed another matter of which I could not defend but do pray that there was a spark of good and righteousness in him that generated some of the admirable agenda he pursued as President.
“What does you theory say about how the explosive charges were installed in all three buildings without anyone noticing?”
Ken F - IMO, your question incorrectly assumes no one saw, but history tells us that the world has been full of evil people who can be compensated enough to “see nothing” and “say nothing”.
Those who aren’t recipients of said compensation and do see and say something are immediately ridiculed, criticized as those who severely lack any element of credibility by those in authority. Much like GW Bush did when he came out told Americans not to believe any of those “crazy conspiracy theories” about 9/11 - in spite of the fact that there were over 150 eyewitnesses (majority firefighters) who either saw/felt/heard multiple explosions as each of the three towers fell. Add to that the myriads of facts caught on film, or seen in the debris piles - it becomes evident that the GOV is part and parcel of terrorism itself, and people who support them are indirectly participating. SHOCKER!
The church “authorities” have done the same thing down throughout history. Nothing new.
Note to self: the use of the term “pancaking” (fall/slight pause/fall/slight pause)is to be differentiated from the term “free falling” (uninterrupted acceleration). NIST said the towers “pancaked”, but the facts on film show all three towers free fell in symmetry. What’s the chance that three skyscrapers could do what no other skyscrapers have done from fires all on the same day? Impossible without controlled demolition.
One of the best consolidated articles of the absurdity of the official report.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.globalresearch.ca/the-destruction-of-the-world-trade-center-why-the-official-account-of-911-cannot-be-true/32392/amp
Ken
Hi Ken,
If your theory is true, the real miracle is how everyone involved remained so silent all these years, including the events leading up to it. Controlled demolitions require quite a lot of planning and engineering, quite a lot of explosives that would have to be installed in all the right places, and the explosives would all have to be wired together into a control system. It would be very difficult to hide all that activity. And the fact that the detonations occurred in the areas where the planes struck means all that wiring would have to have been designed to withstand not only the impact, but also all the heat from the fires. And the planes would have to hit exactly the right locations on both buildings. And arranging the planes to hit after all the exposives were installed would take quite a lot of effort as well. The likelihood of being able to perfectly pull off this feat in all three buildings makes this series of detonations a modern engineering marvel. And keeping it so silent makes it even more miraculous.
Ken F - Just curious how many hours of research you've done investigating the veracity of the official narrative?
People can and will remain silent for years for the right amount of money.
Difficult to hide the installation of wiring and explosives? Yes, but not even close to impossible.
Detonations on the floors of impact? Probable, since simple physics doesn't allow airplane construction to cause adequate and deep penetration on such heavily constructed skyscrapers.
Detonations on floors below the point of impact? Highly likely a separate entity of explosives designed to uniformly severe the vertical steel beams to cause near perfect symmetrical free falling of the entire building.
Planes hitting exact locations? Very plausible. Reputable sources have testified the US military had the technological capabilities to remotely control planes since the mid-nineties.
It's always a matter of perspective isn't it? What's more believable? What GOV's hired hands insists happened (me thinks thou doest protest too much), or what thousands of professionals from around the world are screaming cannot happen apart from controlled demolition?
https://www.ae911truth.org/news/479-security-alerts-disabled-fire-alarms-and-unused-elevators-suspicious-events-at-the-world-trade-center-before-9-11
Ken
Ken F,
You are so right.
“In an interview with journalist Rahimullah Yusufzai published in TIME Magazine on January 11, 1999, Osama bin Laden was quoted as saying:
The International Islamic Front for Jihad against the US and Israel has issued a crystal-clear fatwa calling on the Islamic nation to carry on jihad aimed at liberating holy sites. The nation of Muhammad has responded to this appeal. If the instigation for jihad against the Jews and the Americans in order to liberate Al-Aksa Mosque and the Holy Ka'aba Islamic shrines in the Middle East is considered a crime, then let history be a witness that I am a criminal.”
If he had destroyed the buildings with bombs, (none of his people killed) what were the airplanes for?
RB Kuter,
Good point about trying to change the belief of Jehovah Witness. My sister says if you want them to leave, just ask them to pray with you.
http://blog.americanheritage1.com/blog/lyndon-baines-johnson-helicopter-man
LBJ increased the number of soldiers from 75,000 to 125,000 in Vietnam. That’d mean they’d need more helicopters. “Lyndon and Lady Bird Johnson both made a fortune from their Bell stock.”
I had a friend that was an engineer at Bell Helicopter.
Hi Ken,
It appears to me that you might be grossly understimating the logistics involved in using explosives to bring down the towers. It would require a team of both architectural and explosives experts to plan the detonations. This would be far beyond the planning of a normal demolition because it would have to be at the same level as where the planes would strikeb so all the hardware and electronics would have to survive the effects of the plane strikes. Assuming successful design and planning, there would have to be a convincing cover story for installing all the exposives and ignition cables. The charges would have to be placed around structural supports hidden behind walls, which would involve removing drywall, installing explosives, reinstalling drywall, and pulling ignition cables though the building. All this effort would require quite a lot of people to both knowingly do this while also remaining quiet all these years.
To make it worse, the team of terrorists would need to be recruited and convinced their role was worth dying for. It would also require someone convincing them to attend the right flight schools buying the right tickets on the right flights, etc. It would also require coordination with the people installing the exposives to make sure the buildings were rigged, armed, and ready before the flights took off.
If you suggest that the planes were remotely piloted, this would require a team of experts to somehow covertly install the necessary software and hardware in exactly the right aircraft, and ensure that the flight and maintenance schedules were perfectly aligned. All this would have to happen in a way that would not create suspicion amoung the countless people involvef with aircraft maintenance and scheduling. It would also depend on none of the targeted aircraft having any maintenance issues that could cause them to be unavailable for the needed day of flight.
Finally, it would require finding the right government employees who would willingly and secretly kill fellow Americans.
I suppose it would also require the cooperation of both political parties along with the press choosing not to investigate.
These are only a few of the challenges. Other than that, it's a great theory.
Ken F - ok. So, on one hand, you think I underestimate the complexity of controlled demo in three towers, and I, on the other hand, think you underestimate the capabilities and the wickedness of mankind. So we are at an impasse. :)
Do I remember correctly that you're an engineer of sorts? Civil or mechanical or the like? Ken
RB Kuter,
Tague wrote (page 323) “The Soviet Intelligent Report had come to the same conclusion in 1965 that it had taken me nearly 50 years to come to: Lyndon Johnson was behind the assassination of John F. Kennedy.”
Tague printed their report on page 328-347. The report was indorsed by “Vedder B. Discoll, Chief, Soviet/Warsaw Pact Division Directorate for Intelligence Research”
These three things caught my eye.
1.“FBI reports, kept secret, show that Oswald was paid by the FBI as an informant.”
2.“President Kennedy was certainly killed by orders from high officials.”
3.“The projectile that killed the President was filled with mercury. The disappearance of Kennedy’s brain and related post mortem material from the U S. National Archives was motivated by an official desire not to permit further testing which would certainly show the presence of mercury in the brain matter.”
Kuter, you see we’re back to James Files saying he shot Kennedy with a mercury bullet.
Our County Missionary (Retired missionary in Hungry.) showed me the film of JFK being shot in slow motion. In a split second, his head was blocked out by a mass of blood. A normal bullet passes through an object, but one filled with mercury ‘explodes’.
Hi Ken,
While I agree with you that a contolled demolition would be the best way to take down the towers, I find it impossible to believe that all of the coordination could have been so perfectly and expertly coordinated with no one spilling the beans all these years. We often hear about the stereotype of lazy and incompetent government workers. But if the government did this, it would require skill, competence, coordination, loyalty, dedication, initiative, and silence beyond anything I can imagine. Where would those government workers come from, how would they find each other, and how would they keep is so well hidden? How would they control the optics that would be visible to countless people? Certainly there would be many people who would grow suspicious and find a way to get the word out. And if people were forcibly silenced or eliminated, that would also become glaringly apparent. It's easy enough to believe a small group of people could have done this for something like the JFK assassination. But the scope of 9/11 was orders of magnitude beyond that.
Yes, one has to take into account the wickedness of people. But one also has to take into account limitations on human competence and also the fact that wicked people who do things like this eventually have to talk about it after enough years have passed.
Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor?
Ken F-
https://washingtonsblog.com/2011/05/daniel-ellsberg-%e2%80%9csecrets-can-be-kept-reliably-for-decades-%e2%80%a6-even-though-they-are-known-to-thousands-of-insiders%e2%80%9d.html
Short on time this evening.
Ken
Hi Ken,
For your theory to be believable it has to be plausible. Just beause something could happen does not make it probable. As appealing as it is to suggest a government conspiracy, one has to work through all of the details that would be required to successfully accomplish the plan. This theory to me appears to be so improbable as to be impossible.
Ken F -
I was unfamiliar with Razor's principle. Thanks for sharing!
NIST ignored most of these facts which are the telltale signs of a controlled demo:
1) Rapid onset of destruction,
2) Constant acceleration at or near free-fall through what should have been the path of greatest resistance,
3) Numerous eyewitness accounts of explosions including 118 FDNY personnel,
4) Lateral ejection of multi-ton steel framing members distances of 600 feet at more than 60 mph,
5) Mid-air pulverization of 90,000 tons of concrete, and large volumes of expanding pyroclastic-like dust clouds,
6)Isolated explosive ejections 20 to 60 stories below the “crush zone,”
7) Total destruction and dismemberment of all three buildings, with 220 floors each an acre in size missing from the Twin Towers’ debris pile,
8) Several tons of molten steel/iron found in the debris piles,
9) Evidence of thermite incendiaries on steel beams,
10) Nanothermite composites and iron microspheres found in WTC dust samples.
NIST is like local law enforcement agencies investigating themselves and finding no evidence of wrongdoing.
Curious again - do you directly or indirectly work for GOV? My experience of three plus decades of private contracting for FED GOV employees in most of the major departments (including all the conversations that entailed with said individuals) suggests you may. Ken
Hi Ken,
Are you aware of the "ad hominem fallacy"? My background is completely irrelevant to the plausibility of your theory.
"Are you aware of the "ad hominem fallacy"? My background is completely irrelevant to the plausibility of your theory. "
Ken F - Yes, I am, but I'm not sure I agree my question qualifies as such.
Your background may not be relevant to the validity of my views as they stand or fall on their own merit, but it could be very relevant as to why you refuse to validate the simple facts I present to your theories (no one saw, people can't keep secrets and talk, too difficult for GOV to pull off..etc.).
Tn my experience, the overwhelming majority of people who work (directly or indirectly) for the FEDS refuse to acknowledge the possibility of their employer as an entity that is rampant with duplicity, propaganda, and murderous intentions - both nationally and internationally.
That is the only way that GOV can transform a nation to what it is becoming today: land of the fees and home of the slaves.
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
― Upton Sinclair, I, Candidate for Governor: And How I Got Licked
Again, the similarities between GOV and church authority down through history are strikingly similar.
I've enjoyed the discussion, but think we've come to an impasse long ago. :)
Ken
Hi Ken,
Please note that I was not challenging any of your facts or observations. Rather, I was challenging your theory/explanation for those facts and observations. A good theory needs to subject itself to cross examination through the scientific method and/or peer review. I belive your theory has some very weak point that rely on highly improbable actions and events. Per Occam's Razor, there are simpler explanations that are more likely to be true.
As for the theory that "the government" did this, there is no such thing as a faceless, impersonal government. The government is comprised of real people. So the question for your theory is, who were all thiese real people, how did they coordinate it, how did they get all the needed access and resources, etc.? It would take quite a lot of people to pull this off, which means quite a lot of fellow Americans would have had to agree that killing thousands of random Americans was a good idea.
The people part is true of any organization. For example, no one is abused by a church - they are abused by people in a church. The people factor alwaus has to be taken into account.
Finally, unless you personally collected and tested the evidence, you are trusting the word of others who could be part of another conspiracy.
Ken (Not Ken F)
I believe you’re barking up the wrong tree. It seems you want it to be an ‘inside job’ for 9/11. Why is that? How did Osama bin Laden recruit these people to place all these bombs you say exploded?
Did he have the airplanes hijacked to cover up the ‘inside job’? I’ve told how low heat (compared to jet fuel) of hay burning in my barn caused 4-inch-thick pipe to ‘wrinkle up’ with only the weight of a tin roof.
Osama believed the more you inflicted damage on a greater enemy, the more admiration you’d receive.
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/ten-years-ago-today-countdown-911/story?id=14191671
The link above states:
quicklist: 2 title: 9/11 Hijackers text: All 19 hijackers are, in fact, already in the U.S. on visas obtained under their actual names.
On August 11, Hamza al-Ghamdi, who will be one of the hijackers in the second plane to hit the World Trade Center, buys a blue blazer at a Florida men's store. media: 14270584
quicklist: 3 title: Osama bin Laden text: Osama bin Laden has approved the targets and is only awaiting final word on which day the attack will occur. media: 14270626
quicklist: 7 category: 30 Days Before 9/11 title: August 12, 2001 text: Al Qaeda recruit Zacarias Moussaoui has just arrived in Eagan, Minnesota, where he has moved to attend flight training school. media: 14271035
8 title: Lots of Investigations, No Hijackers text: Some 70 FBI "full field investigations" related to Osama bin Laden are underway across the United States. None of them involve any of the 19 men who will commandeer passenger planes on September 11. media:
quicklist: 11 category: 29 Days Before 9/11 title: August 13, 2001 text: Hijack team leader Mohamed Atta and two other hijack pilots fly to Las Vegas for an apparent planning session. media: 14270847
quicklist: 12 title: Hijacker Buys Knives text: Marwan al-Shehhi, who will take control of United Airlines flight 175 on September 11, purchases two black four-inch pocket knives -- the maximum allowable knife length under FAA rules at the time -- from a Sports Authority store in Florida. media: 14270867
quicklist: 13 title: Moussaoui Raises Suspicions text: Al Qaeda recruit Zacarias Moussaoui begins flight training on a flight simulator at the Pan Am International Flight Academy in Eagan, Minnesota. He raises suspicions when he tells instructors that while he wants to learn how to fly a 747 jet, he does not intend to earn a pilot's license. media: 14285405
quicklist: 15 category: 28 Days Before 9/11 title: August 14, 2001 text: Future hijackers Mohamed Atta, Nawaf al-Hamzi and Hani Hanjour leave Las Vegas after an apparent planning session. media:
quicklist: 16 title: Hijackers at the ATM text: Fayez Banihammad and Marwan al-Shehhi, who will hijack United Airlines flight 175, withdraw $2,000 from a Bank of America ATM in Lantana, Florida. media:
quicklist: 18 title: Rice Fails to Act text: President Bush's national security advisor, Condoleeza Rice, continues to fail to take action on warnings from counter-terrorism official Richard Clarke of an al Qaeda threat. media: 14316823
quicklist: 20 category: 27 Days Before 9/11 title: August 15, 2001 text: FBI agents initiate an "intelligence investigation" into Zacarias Moussaoui after flight school instructors report concerns that he might be a terrorist. media: 14274743
quicklist: 21 title: 'We Are Going To Be Struck Soon' text: CIA counter-terrorism chief Cofer Black tells a Defense Department convention, "We are going to be struck soon, many Americans are going to die, and it could be in the U.S." media: 14289452
quicklist: 24 category: 26 Days Before 9/11 title: August 16, 2001 text: The crew of hijackers that will take control of American Airlines flight 77 and crash it into the Pentagon check in at the Valencia Motel in Laurel, Maryland, a few miles from the headquarters of the National Security Administration, where operations are underway to detect suspected terrorists. media: 14310514
quicklist: 25 title: Another Hijacker Takes Flight Training text: Using his FAA flight certificate, Hani Hanjour, who will act as pilot of the hijacked American Airlines flight 77, takes 1.3 hours of flight training at Freeway Airport in Mitchellsville, Maryland. media: 14310523
quicklist: 26 title: Moussaoui Arrested text: Zacarias Moussaoui is arrested on immigration charges as FBI agents in Minneapolis grow increasingly suspicious of why he enrolled in 747 flight training. media: 14310576
quicklist: 27 category: 25 Days Before 9/11 title: August 17, 2001 text: Ziad Jarrah completes a "check ride," a test of his piloting skills, with a flight instructor at Airborne Systems Flight School in Ft. Lauderdale. On September 11, he will act as hijack pilot of United Airlines flight 93, which the hijackers will attempt to redirect to Washington. It will crash in a Pennsylvania field after passengers revolt against the hijackers. media: 14310596
quicklist: 29 title: Moussaoui Ordered Deported text: A deportation order is signed for Zacarias Moussaoui while FBI agents begin an effort to obtain a court order to search his computer. media:
quick list: 31 category: 24 Days Before 9/11 title: August 18, 2001 text: The FBI requests evidence of al Qaeda recruit Zacarias Moussaoui's terror connections from a U.S. legal attaché in Paris to obtain a search warrant for Moussaoui's lap-top computer. media:
Ken,
The same link shows the pictures of the 19 hijackers. I have a friend who went to the same flight school. He recognized one that told the instructor, “I only want to learn how to fly; not how to land a plane.”
Rex,
I think you are focusing on the fringe details that said party in GOV wants you to focus on. Focus rather on how the buildings came down - like the much overlooked WTC buiding 7 that had no airplane strike. It supposedly fell perfectly in place due to "office furniture fires". If this was indeed true, then every controlled demo company in the world would utilize the same methodology since it would be so cheap and effective! Think about it!
Did you know that over half of the members of the 9/11 Commission Report have since said that they were fed untruths and lies as far as evidence?
Also, I encourage you to read a little more about what retired military personnel are saying about the facts surrounding 9/11. I'm practically a nobody. :)
Excerpts taken from http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/
Lt. Col. Shelton F. Lankford, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Retired U.S. Marine Corps fighter pilot with over 300 combat missions flown. Decorations include the Distinguished Flying Cross and 32 awards of the Air Medal. Aircraft flown: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk, Lockheed C-130H Hercules. 10,000+ total hours flown. 20-year Marine Corps career.
Article Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11 1/14/08:
“September 11, 2001 seems destined to be the watershed event of our lives and the greatest test for our democracy in our lifetimes. The evidence of government complicity in the lead-up to the events, the failure to respond during the event, and the astounding lack of any meaningful investigation afterwards, as well as the ignoring of evidence turned up by others that renders the official explanation impossible, may signal the end of the American experiment. It has been used to justify all manners of measures to legalize repression at home and as a pretext for behaving as an aggressive empire abroad. Until we demand an independent, honest, and thorough investigation and accountability for those whose action and inaction led to those events and the cover-up, our republic and our Constitution remain in the gravest danger.” http://www.opednews.com
Statement to this website 2/20/07:
"This isn't about party, it isn't about Bush Bashing. It's about our country, our constitution, and our future. ...
*****Your countrymen have been murdered and the more you delve into it the more it looks as though they were murdered by our government, who used it as an excuse to murder other people thousands of miles away.***********
Col. Donn de Grand-Pre, U.S. Army (ret) (1926 - 2009) – Former Director, Ground Weapons Systems, Office of International Logistics Negotiations serving as chief Pentagon arms negotiator for the Middle East. Former Civilian Deputy Chief of the International Division, Office of the Chief of Research and Development. Also served as Commander of Special Troops for the U.S. Army Reserves. Served as radio operator in World War II. Became commissioned officer in 1950. Infantry troop leader and paratrooper, as well as a combat troop commander and intelligence officer with the 27th Infantry "Wolfhound" Regiment in Korea 1950 - 1953. Sustained major injuries in Korea 1953. FAA certified private pilot. Author of Confessions of an Arms Peddler (1979), Barbarians Inside the Gates Book 1 (2000), The Viper's Venom: Barbarians Inside the Gates (Book III) (2002), Look Homeward Cowboy: A Saga of World War II (2002), The Rattler's Revenge: Barbarians Inside the Gates (Book III) (2003), The Boys from Bent Willow: A Saga of World War II (2003).
Article September 11 - U.S. Government Accused by the Portugal News 3/8/02:
"A group of military and civilian US pilots, under the chairmanship of Colonel Donn de Grand [sic], after deliberating non-stop for 72 hours, has concluded that the flight crews of the four passenger airliners, involved in the September 11th tragedy, had no control over their aircraft.
In a detailed press communiqué the inquiry stated: "The so-called terrorist attack was in fact a superbly executed military operation carried out against the USA, requiring the utmost professional military skill in command, communications and control. It was flawless in timing, in the choice of selected aircraft to be used as guided missiles and in the coordinated delivery of those missiles to their pre-selected targets."
The report seriously questions whether or not the suspect hijackers, supposedly trained on Cessna light aircraft, could have located a target dead-on 200 miles from take off point. It further throws into doubt their ability to master the intricacies of the instrument flight rules (IFR) in the 45 minutes from take off to the point of impact. Colonel de Grand said that it would be impossible for novices to have taken control of the four aircraft and orchestrated such a terrible act requiring military precision of the highest order." http://www.amfirstbooks.com
Ken
"The so-called terrorist attack was in fact a superbly executed military operation carried out against the USA, requiring the utmost professional military skill in command, communications and control. It was flawless in timing, in the choice of selected aircraft to be used as guided missiles and in the coordinated delivery of those missiles to their pre-selected targets."
Hi Ken,
It's a bit odd to use a government source as proof that the government is corrupt and evil. While this quote confirms what I was saying about the incredible complexity, it fails to address who the people were who did it. It this was carried out by the military it was against the constitution that all military members swear to protect, it is against the UCMJ, it would involve a large number of military members all choosing to kill fellow Americans, and it would require extensive coordination with non-military entities. Not that this is impossible, but the odds against executing it so perfectly and secretly are astronomical.
Ken F - we are obviously on different levels of understanding (theoretically/practically/experientially), therefore, I'm not your man to convince you in this matter.
Many smiles!
Ken
Here’s what really happened!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Beamer
Tod Beamer was aboard United Airlines Flight 93, which was hijacked as part of 9/11. He was one of the passengers who attempted to regain control of the aircraft from the hijackers…crashed near Shanksville, Pennsylvania…killing everyone.
Cleveland controllers could hear screams over the cockpit’s open microphone… Beamer saw the pilot and co-pilot dead with throats cut…Several passengers made phone calls…Beamer called airphone supervisor Lisa Jefferson. She heard his last words, “Are you ready? Okay. Let’s roll.”
The plane’s voice data recorded…A hijacker shouts, “Allah Akbar”.
The plane was 20 minutes of flying time away from the White House or U.S. Capitol Building in Washington, D.C. President Bush had given orders to shoot the plane down.
Todd Beamer’s wife, Lisa, wrote a book about her husband’s actions.
https://www.amazon.com/Lets-Roll-Ordinary-Extraordinary-Courage/dp/0842374183
https://www.mintpressnews.com/newly-released-fbi-docs-shed-light-on-apparent-mossad-foreknowledge-of-9-11-attacks/258581/
For years, the official story has been that these individuals, while they had engaged in “immature” behavior by celebrating and being “visibly happy” in their documenting of the attacks, had no prior knowledge of the attack. However, newly released FBI copies of the photos taken by the five Israelis strongly suggest that these individuals had prior knowledge of the attacks on the World Trade Center.
http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/mossad-agents-911.htm
The police and FBI field agents became very suspicious when they found maps of the city with certain places highlighted, box cutters (the same items that the hijackers supposedly used), $4700 cash stuffed in a sock, and foreign passports. Police also told the Bergen Record that bomb sniffing dogs were brought to the van and that they reacted as if they had smelled explosives.
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