Monday, June 11, 2018

Arrive Early Tuesday for the 2018 SBC in Dallas

Most messengers are unaware that a flood of business occurs beginning at 8:35 Tuesday morning. Motions that will be dealt with later Tuesday or on Wednesday will be introduced, major announcements from the Committee on Order of Business will be made, and a host of other matters will be addressed very early Tuesday morning.

Arrive early. Be registered and in the arena by 8:30 am.


Tom Parker said...


Why would messengers not be made aware of early voting?

Anonymous said...

The SBC is desperately needing revival centered messengers not a conservative reconstructionist ones.

Revival must always proceed reform!

Praying for Christ to be lifted up!

Christiane said...

Hello Tom,
sounds ominous, doesn't it

Good of Wade to give people the 'heads up'

I wonder who is behind this?

Wade Burleson said...


8:00 am on Tuesday morning is a hard hour to be able to reach downtown Dallas. I’m just giving a heads-up to be pro-active and to be early.

In addition, I just heard the Vice-President of the United States is speaking Wednesday and the Secret Service is asking that people arrive 2 HOURS before they intend to get in, and at 10:00 am, the doors will be closed.

Florence in KY said...

What happened to separation of church and state?

Tom Parker said...


Why would people not know what was happening in the early hours of the convention and make plans to be there at 8 am bad traffic or not?

Tom Parker said...


Sadly separation of church and state often does not exist and this is an example.

IMO the SBC has wedded itself to the Republican Party. It used to not be this way.

Florence in KY said...

Historic Baptists were known for this stance. I don't believe they invited Biden or Obama to speak.

Florence in KY said...

My late husband was a church historian and I've heard him comment, "Churches and religious institutions need to keep their hands out of the public treasury."

Anonymous said...

A true Christian worldview doesn't have a secular realm...the correct perspective on our constitutional government is not to establish a denominational preference, not separation from religion. Surely, Pence would speak and has spoken at other denominational settings. From what I have read at Wiki, he attends a non-denominational church in Indiana.

Rex Ray said...


I was looking forward to going to the Convention and seeing you again, but I don’t believe the Convention is wheelchair friendly.

Christiane said...

how long are the doctors saying you have to be in the wheelchair?

Christiane said...

"A true Christian worldview doesn't have a secular realm...the correct perspective on our constitutional government is not to establish a denominational preference, not separation from religion."

I think your comment is confusing . . .
we are a nation come together from many, many faiths so 'denominational preference' doesn't have a meaning for those faiths that are not divided into 'denominations'. Would it not be better to say that our country is founded on principles accepted universally as humane and decent and honorable?

When people support moral principles, they are less likely to follow demagogues and less likely to be convinced to become loyal to authoritarians who crave power, even when those authoritarians tell them to do what is wrong.

I think only SOME of 'denominations' out there support the belief in 'moral conscience'. And I think the rest of the denominations are at the mercy of leadership that demands what it has no right to ask of those it is supposed to be serving.

Honorable principles.
That is what OUR country draws its strength from. As long as those principles are honorable, we have ALL have a chance as a people to be free to choose to pray as our consciences direct us.

The 'Christian Nation' mantra ???
It reeks of a grim, dystopian, inhumane place devoid of Christ.

Anonymous said...

In the prior comment, I was trying to the use of the word "denomination" in broader theistic/deistic sense, although it does have connotation of being used only with various Christian congregations, but it can and has been applied to other faiths, as well. A public official can indeed partake at various events of various faiths and has done so in the past, even if those denominations have different theistic/deistic perspectives. It doesn't mean that they support everything about that faith.
In responding to your post, I would agree that moral conscience and principles are indeed very important but in truth they can only stem from having a proper worldview. I had a discussion with an atheist about politics and asked them of, What would govern a politician's conscience if they have no proper healthy fear of God?" He really didn't have an answer. Sadly, too many leaders (political and religious) don't have the right healthy fear of God. For example, Paige Patterson assumed that he had the correct and right view on tithing and used the bully pulpit to castigated those seminarians who were struggling financially because they were not tithing and then he mocked his critics that disagreed with him. That's a pride problem, Christiane. Where there is a true fear and reverence of God, there is no pride present. In avoiding pride, one doesn't lean on their personal assumptions and will hears out their critics and those who differ in opinion. Patterson was horrible in leaning on his assumptions on many things and not listening to his critics. He took diplomas away from some of them and he even bragged about his giving 20%.

Wallace H. Rowland Jr. said...

Dear Anonymous @Tue Jun 12, 08:41:00 AM 2018 and Christiane

I found your discussion very, very interesting. You folks MIGHT be wrestling with some of the root causes of the divisions in the SBC. That is my opinion. That opinion is based on my discussions with professors and students during my 12 years at Southwestern (1996-2008). But then, I understand that my opinion is often ‘the minority view.’

This is important to me, because Jesus has called Alexis and I to be disciples. This means He makes disciples through us. We deal with people every week who have been deeply affected by their past church experiences. Like myself, many are Southern Baptists. This past weekend was intense. Often, I long to better express where at least some of the confusion comes from in SBC.

Jesus speaks in all kinds of ways. Maybe, He will teach me through you.

How do you define worldview? How is worldview acquired?

Could do you define denomination with greater clarity?

For your consideration, if you choose to discuss: Is the SBC-- not a denomination, a denomination, or a collection of denominations?

What do you think are the primary sources of the disagreements and the solution?

Maybe, I am not asking the right questions.

You two are obviously quite knowledgeable. I would like to ponder on what you would share. Of course, you understand I am asking this-- 'humanly speaking.'

Thank you for your consideration,



Rex Ray said...


I’m actually not in a wheelchair, but if there’s a lot of walking, I’d need one. In 2012 a small scratch on my ankle developed into a ‘venous ulcer’. In 4 years, I’ve been in the hospital 3 times and seen 22 doctors, including Mayo Clinic. The most damage was done by the first doctor who had done ‘laser-vein’ surgery that restricted blood flow. Another doctor wrapped my leg so tight with a ‘plastic protector’ the ‘protector’ dug a hole in a different place and it developed into ‘cellulous’. I’ve had a skin graph and hyperbaric chamber treatments. At present I’ve nearly finished taking 80 antibiotic pills, but I believe the most good is from a salve that out music director gave me. It’s made from roots from Romania (his birthplace).

I’ve just heard the SBC has a motion to vote on that all trustees at SWBTS be fired. If the reasoning is to bring back ‘good professors’ that’s been fired, then that’s good.

But if the reasoning is because they fired Patterson, then that’s BAD in my humble opinion.

I’ll be off the blog after today as we’re going to New York to visit Judy’s son.

Christiane said...

Hello Rex Ray,
goodness, your ankle sounds like serious business, hyperbaric chamber and all that . . . but it sounds like SOME of your doctors know what they are doing

have a safe trip and stay out of trouble, we'll talk again

Christiane said...

Hello Wallace,
oh goodness, I'm not one to come to for information, as I come HERE for information as Wade has always been helpful to read :)

all in all, it's the 'questions' we ask that are more important than thinking we know all the answers and you ask good questions, so you are already on page two

I'll cut to a summary: keep a Christocentric focus and you can't go too far wrong

the only 'worldview' that ever really mattered was the one from the Cross . . . is an old folk song from the sixties that says 'and Jesus was a sailor when He walked upon the waters, and He spent a long time watching from a lonely wooden tower' . . . I think St. Peter had it right when he said 'to whom shall we go, Lord? Thou hast the words of eternal life' . . .

as for the troubles in the SBC, I'm Catholic but had a Southern Baptist grandmother of blessed memory, so I see only from the outside AND through a glass darkly on top of that, so please take what I say with a grain of salt, but know that it is sincerely well-meant

Jesus Christ, Son, Savior . . . . the Alpha and the Omega . . . God in the Second Person of the Holy Trinity . . . trust in Him, Wallace, and then be at peace.
God Bless!

Anonymous said...

Wade, you wrote: "The Executive Committee of SWBTS had their reasons for termination of Paige Patterson. Very few people know the full story. The Executive Committee of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary has facts. They voted unanimously to terminate." Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence? If indeed "very few people know the full story," how can a just decision be made? Let's get the facts before we throw a man under the bus for political correctness.

Wallace H. Rowland Jr. said...

Dear Christiane

Well . . . now . . . that was more than a ‘humanly speaking’ answer! I thought you might have something to say that I needed to hear, or to remember.

Indeed . . . Christ and Him crucified.

I spent a significant part of my life as an outstanding Galatian and a full blown, card carrying Pharisee! I could manipulate or be manipulated by the doctrines of men better than many. Oh, could I get tangled up in arguments concerning the proper interpretation of Scripture. At times, that religious spirit still harasses me. The LORD is still healing me.

Not ten minutes before I read your post, I was thinking about what my mentor said about worldview and sharing the Gospel. Actually, it was what a certain people group, that he THOUGHT he was going to minister to-- told him! My mentor and dear friend whom I will call J., pastors pastors around the world. But in this place (which I will not mention because of the persecution) they told him-- to leave his American Christianity (worldview) at home.

My friend J. was more than surprised by what he encountered in this oral culture. I don’t know how many times he has told me, “It is like the Book of Acts ‘on speed!’ Jesus was building His Church in a more extraordinary manner. I think it fair to say, that functionally, they had a CLEARER worldview.

So I asked J. how do they do church? What does it look like? He said that it didn’t look like anything! I said it must look like something! He said, “Not physically!” They don’t have building. The buildings would be burnt down if they did. They have no money. They don’t have organizations or professional ministers. No seminaries. They don’t keep a head count. They don’t even have Bibles! They couldn’t read them if they had them. The very few who do, were the most amazing teachers J. had ever heard. So I said, “What do they do?” J. said, they live life together. They build relationships; with Jesus and with those whom He has given them to disciple.

Another thing they had was intense persecution. Church is an awesome experience there, because they know the next time they met; someone was likely to have been martyred.

J. asked a new believer why he didn’t include his dramatic physical healing and deliverance from demons in his personal testimony. The young man seemed to be surprised by that question and just said, “Why? . . . . . I share Jesus! Now, I would be willing to speculate that THAT man got a good glimpse of Christ and Him Crucified!

I would not be surprised if some of these martyrs, also, saw Jesus standing as they return His love, the love they received because Jesus died for them!



P.S. Christiane , the prayer meeting that may have had the most direct and immediate impact on this Southern Baptist boy was at a Catholic prayer meeting about 30 years ago. I still tell folks about that evening. I vividly remember re-remembering the experience of ‘hearing’-- “Christ in you, the hope of glory” and the sense of “entering into His rest!” Makes me want to shout -- even now!