"I went to Jerusalem to become acquainted (Gk. istoria) with Cephas" - Paul's words from Galatians 1:18.

An Isaiah 16 Targum on the Destruction of America

Fires in California in the year 2020
Most people don't read the Bible. 

When some do attempt it, the Hebrew Scriptures (the Old Testament) seem confusing if not impossible to comprehend.  

The lack of understanding of what the Bible reveals says more about our modern system of education than it does the readers. 

Just a little more than a century ago, it was not uncommon to find many five-year-old Americans who had been taught to read the classics in the original Greek, Latin, or English. 

I'm mentoring a 13-year-old young man who struggles "to believe the stories of the Bible." This young man will one day see that his struggle is actually a symptom of his lacking knowledge in ancient history, language, and geography.

A generation of people raised on video games has little patience for virtuous gains

An English Targum might help someone understand the Bible better.  A Targum is an oral or written translation of the Hebrew Scriptures using another language, updating geographical locations, language idioms, and ancient history into words easily understood by a generation unfamiliar with the originals. 

The power of an English Targum to transform English speaking people can be illustrated from Isaiah 16. 

Context of Isaiah 16

The Land of Moab (in Pink)
The Moabites were a people in Isaiah's day just like modern Americans. They were proud, self-
sufficient, and uninterested in YHWH, the God of Israel. They'd abandoned faith in God.

In 712 BC, the cities of Moab were "destroyed in one night" (Isaiah 15:1) by the mighty Assyrian army. Some Moabites fled from their country first to Selah (Petra), and then made plans to send emissaries to Zion (Jerusalem) to ask for refuge (Isaiah 16:1-4).

YHWH had compassion on the Moabites. The LORD instructed His people (the Jews) to shelter the Moabites in Zion: 
"Let the Moabite fugitives stay with you; be their refuge from the destroyer." (Isaiah 16:4).

The LORD is always compassionate and merciful to those who run to HIM for shelter. Ruth was a Moabitess. She is in the lineage of King David and the Messiah. God is merciful to those who run to Zion (the cross of Jesus Christ) for shelter. 

However, one of the major themes of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is that the LORD brings down the proud and the LORD exalts the humble.

"For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled by the LORD, and those who humble themselves will be exalted by the LORD." (Luke 14:11)

 "For exaltation comes...from God...for He brings down the poud and He exalts the humble." (Psalm 75:4-7)

 "God mocks the proud, but He gives favor to the humble" (Proverbs 3:34)

"Clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, “God opposes the proud
but shows favor to the humble." (I Peter 5:5).

God still brings down the proud who resist Him. 

Isaiah 16:6-11 is the explanation from YHWH for why the Moab was destroyed in one night. YHWH brought devastation to a proud people. The LORD laid Moab low.  

An English Targum of Isaiah 16:6-11

To help you understand that the Bible is just as relevant and practical today as it was in Isaiah's day, I'm giving an English Targum of the rationale of YHWH for destroying Moab (America). 

We have heard of America's pride --
How great is her arrogance! --
of her conceit, pride, and insolence;
But America's boasts are empty.

Therefore the American people wail,
They wail together for their country.
They lament and grieve over farms,
For the fields of the Midwest wither, 
The vines of California are on fire.

Foreign nations have brought down
American industries from success.
They have forced businesses to close
from the far East Coast to the West.
Your once-thriving economy has been
shut down and the people have nothing.

I mourn the loss of Chicago's safety,
I weep over Minneapolis's destruction.
I find myself weeping over the events 
in Kenosha, Portland, and Louisville,
for the cries of the riots have overcome
your former wealth and prosperity.

Gladness is gone, for it is taken away.
Joy from your abundance is no more; 
for no one sings in cities of California.
Nor are there any shouts in the arenas.
There are no businesses making money.
I have made all the shouting for joy cease.
I feel the harp's mournful song for America.
And my inner being weeps for Washington.

America, there is REFUGE in running to Christ and living for Him as our King. 

A nation cannot forsake the LORD. A proud people will see themselves as their own gods. When that happens, the One true and merciful Creator will bring low those proud people. 

America is being made low.

48 comments:

David T said...

Thanks for this, Wade. I find it highly coincidental that I'm preaching on Ruth here in a few weeks.

RB Kuter said...

I believe we all can see the need for America to experience a time of repentance and humility. Seems the prophets' proclamation and plea for a return to God was usually not successful in turning things around, with perhaps the exception of Jonah's unintentional success with Nineveh. Seems to me that the revival usually followed a catastrophic event of judgment following their falling into complete depravity.

Wonder what lies ahead?

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

Last Sunday the sermon was: “God has removed the hedge that was protecting America”; that there hasn’t been this much hatred in America since the Civil War.

(All great countries have not been defeated, but fall from within.)

https://pleasantonweekly.com/square/2010/05/23/how-to-destroy-america-the-eight-step-plan


I’ve changed it some, and believe “Black Lives Matter” is the “grievance industry” in step 4.

To Destroy America by Dick Lamm, former Governor of Colorado
1. Encourage immigrants to keep their own language and culture. Have cultural subgroups enforce their differences rather than their similarities.

2. Make it a belief that all cultures are equal; that Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority.

3. Make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. Have a 50% dropout rate from high school.'

4. Get minorities think their lack of success was the fault of the majority. Start a grievance industry blaming minority failure on the majority.

5. Have dual citizenship, and promote divided loyalties. Celebrate diversity over unity and differences rather than similarities.

6. Make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws.

Wade Burleson said...

Rex,

Wow.

Dick Lamm has some fascinating insights.

Christiane said...

Good Morning all.

WADE, I found something for you specific to a kind of 'targum' written about the Book of Isaiah. It gives the Hebrew text and an English translation of Chapt. 16, so hope you enjoy reading this:

Chapter 16
1
They shall bring tributes to the Messiah of Israel, who shall prevail over those who are in the wilderness, unto the mountain of the congregation of Zion.

2
Otherwise it shall come to pass, as a bird which men have driven away, being cast out of its nest, the daughters of Moab shall be led round about, made to Wadi Arnon.

3
Take counsel, execute counsel. Make thy shadow as the night in the day, in the midst of the noonday: hide the outcasts; touch not the dispersed.

4
Let my outcasts dwell with thee, O kingdom of Moab! be thou a covert to them on account of the spoilers: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, all that trampled under foot have come to au end.

5
Then the throne of the Messiah of Israel shall be established in goodness, and he shall sit upon it in truth in the city of David, judging and seeking justice, and executing truth.

6
We have heard of the princes of Moab; who are very proud; their nobles, and their delicate ones, and their pride shall not profit them, when their punishment comes.

7
Therefore the Moabites shall howl: over the Moabites all of them shall cry aloud; and they shall howl over the men of the city of their strength; they, mourning, shall say, surely they are conquered.

8
Because the armies of Heshbon are spoiled, the multitude of Sebama are killed, the kings of the people have killed their rulers; they reached unto Jazer; they strayed to the desert; their outcasts passed by, they crossed the sea.

9
Therefore, as I have brought armies against Jazer, so will I bring slayers against Sibmah; I will water thee with my tears, O Heshbon and Elealeh! for upon thy harvest, and upon thy vintage the robbers have fallen.

10
And joy is taken away and gladness out of the fruitful field, and in the vineyards they shall not rejoice, neither shall they play sport; in the vats the treaders shall not tread out the wine; the treading of grapes I have made to cease.

11
Wherefore the bowels of the Moabites shall sound as a harp, and their heart shall mourn over the men of the city of their strength.

12
And it shall come to pass, that one shall see, that when Moab is wearied out upon his high place, he shall enter his idol-temple to pray, yet he shall not prevail.

13
This is the word which the Lord spake concerning the Moabites long ago:

14
But now the Lord hath spoken, saying: Within three years, as the years of an hireling, the glory of the Moabites shall come to an end, with all that great multitude; and the remnant shall be small, a few; all their glory shall come to an end.

https://www.sefaria.org/Targum_Jonathan_on_Isaiah?lang=bi

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

This morning, Judy read: “If a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.” (Mark 3:24 KJ)

Christiane said...

REX RAY,

Judy's right.

So we Americans can't let the Russians win. :)

RB Kuter said...

"So we Americans can't let the Russians win. :) "

Oh, that it would be as simple as our mounting up vigilance and defense against "outside" forces.

I believe the premise of Wade's post is that God's judgment is based upon "our" inner core and the stench that rises to His heaven from the decay, decadence, and outright, bold defiance against God by the American society.

I don't believe God could wipe out Sodom and Gomorrah and give the US a pass. Actually, I can't imagine anything that Sodom and Gomorrah was not guilty of doing that is not prevalent in our American society AND we top off any measure of decadence of S&G by murdering millions of babies a year. They probably killed a few in the process of sacrificing to their pagan idols. We sacrifice "millions" to our pagan idol of self-gratification, convenience and over-the-top secular prosperity.

Not really a comparison. How could God NOT judge us and "remove the hedge"?

chattergal said...

Finally a minister that does not tip toe around so as not to offend anyone the truth shall set you free and the truth is as it tells us in the Bible “had these days not been cut short no one would stand” I don’t know if we are in the last days only God Almighty knows that but weather it’s today or a thousand years from now each soul on this earth needs to repent and and try to make a difference for Christ not self and yes that means humbling ourselves on our knees crying out for Gods mercy and forgiveness for without that life is in vain 🙏🙏

Rex Ray said...

RB Kuter,

GOOD POINT



CHRISTIANE,

I believe you’re missing the point by saying, “Judy’s right. So, we Americans can’t let the Russians win.”

That starts a DIVISION who’s the best that can do that; Biden or Trump?

Division may cause America to see the hand that wrote on the wall in Daniel 5:5.

RB Kuter said...

Chattergal: "whether it’s today or a thousand years from now each soul on this earth needs to repent and and try to make a difference for Christ not self".

I believe you have hit the nail on the head! We are blessed with living in this extraordinary day that positions us just at the threshold of "The End". My small group is addressing Matthew 24 in this Sunday's session so have been convicted of this truth. The Word of God is so alive and amazing and true!

Jesus points out that we have been living in that final age since His exit when He transferred the Kingdom chores over to the church. He prepares the church for life in the "final age" by describing in detail what that final age is going to look like and what we, the remnant, His followers, can expect.

Then in verse :14 He gives us the key to understanding when "The End" events of that great, unprecedented, tribulation will begin that precedes the imminent Second Advent. The "key" is "this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come."

That one requirement that qualifies "the End" has never before been achieved until this generation. Only NOW has this one prophetic, required, event been fulfilled. Check out this video and see if it makes you weep as it did me. Our Almighty God reigns!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA7pdABvpnc

I am so glad that I have been born in this generation. I have no idea that I will be alive when the Second Advent occurs. There are obviously those events of the Great Tribulation that have not yet transpired which must unfold, but man, are we ever close! It gives me a sense of urgency and desperation to tell more people about Jesus so they can be prepared. It gives me the sense of living in a generation of Jesus followers whose obedience and diligent service have never before been as strategic and critical as now.

It's an awful time, but it is a marvelous time!

Christiane said...

Hello Mr. Kuter,

I wasn't trying to start a 'division'. The Russians have been targeting our social media to stir the pot between Republicans AND Democrats equally,
so the Russians have been working the whole scene to get our citizens to hate each other.

If we give in to that 'hate', then they have done what they set out to do. I'm not letting that happen in my own family and it doesn't need to happen in the larger Christian community either.

We Americans are better than this. I realize there is much trouble but I am not without hope for better to come. I don't the 'God of Wrath' thing, no. I think I have this permanent image of Christ looking out on a whole group of troubled people and having compassion on them, and that is the image of God I take to heart. There is something about the Hebrew teaching of 'Chesed' that has meaning for me here: that the Good Lord looks ahead of us and He helps us in ways we cannot understand so that sometimes we go through trials and they make us stronger, but it's the kind of strength that enables us to do good in the world and to go forward in a good direction. We call that Chesed quality of God 'loving-kindness'. I'm holding to that and it helps me get through a LOT.

There are troubles, but as the sacred Scriptures say to us, this:
" 33 I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!"

(from the Holy Gospel of St. John 16:33, the words of Our Lord)

I think we should start trusting God to help us and use our energies to try to help others in distress,
because our hope is anchored beyond the horizon of this present world's troubles, and we are asked to take COURAGE (heart). :)



Christiane said...

* Norbert for President *

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcY0CwMuO-4

RB Kuter said...

"We Americans are better than this."

No, unfortunately, we are not.

There was once a time when Americans would proudly, with a degree of arrogance, no doubt, assume the lofty position of being "better" than those atheistic, communist, Marxist-ideologist-driven nations bent on having a state system that holds its boot to the necks of the people. I know. I have lived years in countries with such inhumane government thugs that completely victimized its citizens, its economies, and free societies for the benefit of the state system and its cronies.

They would initially win over the support of the people with promises that should have been recognized as being as absurd and impossible to fulfill as they were. Nevertheless, the people were blinded by their insatiable appetites for "something for nothing" and by the fantasy of living in a society having no accountability or basis for having consequences related to foolish behavior.

These oppressive regimes were not forced upon those nations in which I lived by the invading forces of some outside aggressors. In each incidence, it was the people who willingly surrendered their liberties and the control of their lives into the hands of leftist schemers who promised the people free "everything" without the effort of having to work and earn increased prosperity. I watched in amazement as the people cheered and celebrated the military coup de tat which threw out the democratically elected government which the elitists could not remove through legitimately elections.

It was the people who cheered and celebrated the take-overs and danced in the streets and continually supported and agreed to all of the progressive steps to expand control proposed by those regimes, as surely as Russia submitting to Putin's life-long reign as sovereign over that nation.

As an American living in these nations in those days, I would arrogantly assess the situation saying, "We Americans are a LOT better than this!!", never imagining that we too would one day be as blindly selfish and foolish to the point of our willingly throwing the precious gems of freedom, liberty, and principles of the state existing "for the people, by the people, and of the people" into the mud to be trampled underneath the feet of pigs.

Another common strategy for ALL of these Marxist oppressors was that they all create the concept of there being demonic outside aggressors for which the state must protect the people. The concept is to maintain the fear of the people as a means for the continued dependency upon the state to protect them, most often from phantom enemies which never materialized.

These are not new methods of asserting dominance and control of entire societies. It's as old as Adam and Eve surrendering their freedoms and liberties to the control of a beautiful serpent promising them the fruits of rebellion from the truth that should have been obvious but blind foolishness overthrew and ultimately destroyed what should have been obvious.

No, one would think that we would have enough intelligence to view the obvious lessons of history and conclude that what has caused so much needless suffering in other societies would surely be unacceptable in our America. Unfortunately, I have concluded that this is likely one of those occasions when God blinds those bent on rebellion against Him for His purposes of progressive movement to the playing out of His providential plan.

Rex Ray said...

For a break, here’s a story; an event that’s probably never happened ever.

I thought I heard a bang on our front door, but Judy saw two redbirds hit the window and fall on our sleeping cat. (One didn’t fly away.)

“Not even a sparrow, worth only half a penny, can fall to the ground without your Father knowing it. (Matthew 10:29 NLT)

Christiane said...

No, Mr. Kuter,

WE 'Americans' ARE better than this.

as the great-grand niece of a grey-back Civil War hero (Wm James Ausbon, Pvt. 17th NC Troops), I can honor our united American spirit as one that is positive and productive and healing. I think it does depend on good and honorable leadership at times, but I think there is something in our DNA that, when challenged in times of trouble, does not give in or give up. WE are a still Americans first and this is our country. It's a free country. And we WILL keep it that way. A European friend once asked me what I thought was a for-sure American trait, and I thought about it and said 'RESOLVE'.

An example of good leadership? Take a look from another time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVYGxSnLxJQ

RB Kuter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RB Kuter said...

WSJ headlines: "Israel, Two Gulf States Sign Peace Deal at White House"

Don't ya' just hate that guy!?!

Rex Ray said...

RB Kuter,

Love the back-handed way you bragged on our President negotiating two Gulf States to sign a Peace Deal.

Russell Green from Ector, Texas (Graduated from there in 1950) wrote this to the Editor in a local paper:

“Today’s Democratic Party is nothing like the Democratic Party that Sam Rayburn and John Kennedy belonged to over 50 years ago.

Do you want police departments defunded; in favor of late term abortions, have your guns taken, some of your money given to someone else in the name of equality, and live in a socialist country?

If you answer no, you should avoid voting for any Democratic.

Rex Ray said...

P.S.

Sorry. I was the one that graduated from Ector in 1950.

Rex Ray said...

CHRISTIANE,

I want to apologize for my previous comment to you (Wed Sep 16) about causing a division who’s the best; Biden or Trump? I mean, that made me a hypocrite.

Christiane said...

Hello REX RAY,

you never need to apologize to me, ever, as you have been a blessing with your wonderful stories and your insight into the faith of Christ

I didn't take what was written in a bad way, no. You are NOT a hypocrite, no way.

As for the election, we all ought to make our own choices upon honor and conscience, and we can't choose for each other, no. That's not our way. Our way is to let people choose for themselves and to respect the process and hope it is done fairly.

Please stay safe and shelter, and wear a mask in public. I think there is a new emphasis on 'herd immunity' as a solution but it means up to six million or more Americans will die from this painful and torturous deadly virus, I fear. I think the new emphasis is wrong-headed. I think it disrespects human life and I'm staying with the medical and scientific advice to shelter and to wear a mask in public until such time as there is a PROVEN and safe vaccine for our people. You take care.

I could never think poorly of you, I hope you know that. God Bless!

RB Kuter said...

Rex Ray, seems that the Sunni and Shia Muslims hate each other more than they hate the US or Israel! Thank God that their animosity toward each other could be bringing in the larger group, the Sunnis, to be more receptive to actually becoming allies with Israel! THAT'S a miracle if I ever saw one!

Thank God for our having a leader who seems to recognize the opportunity to work to bring the factions together in a manner that seems to de-escalate the hatred toward Israel, and us! All in God's timing, of course.

Amazing how the pieces are falling into place. I think that moves like recognizing Jerusalem as capital and moving our US Embassy there following so many Presidents who seem to have never had the boldness to do so could have been one of those initial pieces to be fitted into the mix that has led to more Arab nations warming up to Israel than ever before in history.

Has a lot to do with the projected image of the US either supporting Israel or the Arab nations which has often been muddled to say the least, in all former administrations.

Speaking of "history", who writes it, anyway?

Rex Ray said...

CHRISTIANE,

Thanks for taking the ‘high-road’

RB Kuter said...

" it means up to six million or more Americans will die from this painful and torturous deadly virus,"

This from someone warning the rest of us for being mind-controlled by the media.

Christiane said...

Mr. Kuter,

that estimate is a very conservative one that comes to me from my brother who is a physician for many years (6 million PLUS American deaths is the most conservative estimate from what IS known)

I believe that the new doctor that the President is listening to is a radiologist who was a guest on Fox News Channel, and who spoke for 'herd immunity',
so that would be a 'media' source of information particularly since the radiologist has no specific credentials in the fields of science and medicine that are most knowledgeable about Covid-19 Saars virus. The President just liked the way the radiologist talked. (?)

I'm opposed to the 'herd immunity' solution for our country, yes. The cost in lives would be too great and my brother tells me that there is yet no proof that if you have 'recovered' once from this covid virus, that you will not get it again. The scientific and medical 'jury' is still out on that one, because there is not yet enough known about the way this virus behaves. This means that among the scientists and medical research people who study this virus, that there is not enough data yet, over time, to even determine if 'herd immunity' is something that is workable. They just know it's deadly.

Hope you are well and will be safe.

For what it's worth, I don't believe in the conspiracy theories, no.
I do trust the scientific and medical communities to tell us the truth unless, of course, their reports have been compromised (changed) by political entities connected to the administration. (you may have heard about Mr. Caputo and his efforts in that regard)
Mr. Caputo is on leave for 'issues' that are personal for two months time. You might want to investigate HIS sources of information as he has mentioned 'deep state' etc. (?)

I think I'm on solid ground with what I hold to about 'herd immunity', yes.
I also don't think the virus will magically 'go away', no.

Rex Ray said...

https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/09/biden-says-if-trump-took-action-on-coronavirus-sooner-everyone-would-still-be-alive.html

How’s this for a campaign speech from a Democrat?

RB Kuter said...

" The President just liked the way the radiologist talked. (?)"

Amazing. Where in the world do you get your information? This is so typical and why this nation is so polarized.

It portrays a demonizing of those who challenge our position to the point of absurdity. Its a level of absurdity that results in our offering no possibility for their having legitimate propositions worthy of consideration. It renders one incapable of acknowledging the impact of the real achievements for society gained by others simply due to the possibility that our doing so would compromise our own position. This is the attitude that has rendered the Washington establishment dysfunctional.

As long as this level of bias exists on the scale we see today, there is no hope for this American society. That's exactly why we Americans are "no better than this" or deserving of any conciliation from God.

Christiane said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Christiane said...

https://www.foxnews.com/media/scott-atlas-brianna-keilar-cnn-coronavirus-adviser

https://www.fox6now.com/news/president-trump-makes-call-for-new-white-house-doctors-virus-advice

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-pulse/2020/08/17/how-scott-atlas-caught-trumps-ear-789964

Good Morning Mr. Kuter,
above are some 'varied' sources, but there are many more you can bring up that cover the range of controversy you would need to be aware of in order to understand my own point of view more completely. As you know, my family are medical folk who, like Dr. Atlas, do not specialize in viral infectious research, but are concerned about Dr. Atlas' comments such as this one:
“Here’s the science … the risk to children from this disease for fatality, is nearly zero,” Atlas said during a July 13 Fox News appearance, adding that kids don’t appear to significantly spread the virus. (Public health scientists have been far more cautious in their evolving pronouncements about the virus and children.)

I do think President Trump has failed to tackle the covid virus straight-on and that now we are seeing the results clearly for this failure. Dr. Atlas supports a more 'casual' approach to public health practices that appeal to the political needs of President Trump at this time. Fox News WAS the conduit between Dr. Atlas and his ideas and the President's awareness of Dr. Atlas' views. It is what it is.

BTW, have you had opportunity to look into the work of President Trump's appointee Mr. Caputo? Now he is an interesting appointee with 'sources' that are VERY controversial, but sadly he has had to take a leave of absence for his health. He will likely be back so it's worth taking a look at him and his ideas and what he proposes to do with the CDC reports coming from medical and scientific specialists before the public is 'allowed' to see the 'unfiltered' CDC information.
Take a look if you care to do so.

Stay safe. It IS important to be cautious. My M.D. brother says the covid-19 death is a painful horrific death, and not something to be thought lightly of, no. Please take care.

(One exception in my family is my niece, a Navy nurse who works in administration at a base hospital which cares for military victims of covid-19. She has information that is more specific to this scourge, yes. And she is VERY self-protective, as are all the care-givers who watch over our soldiers who are recovering, hopefully. Not all have recovered, sadly.
So it is also an issue that affects our national security, and mis-information is NOT in the best interest of our country, no.)

Christiane said...

I have faith in the good sense of people in this country to choose for themselves IF they have accurate information from decent sources that are not 'politicized'.

I do agree that when people are isolated into 'bubbles' where a source has promoted itself as 'fair and balanced' while ALSO denigrating other media sources;
then you've got problem.

I would say watch out for those who say 'WE are the ONLY valid source of info';
because these folks want to do your thinking for you. They will get to distrust other media sources. And the ONLY way to do your OWN thinking is to have access to multiple sources of information, so as to see the range of opinions and then to check out 'facts' for accuracy on your own. That is hard work, but if we want a free society of responsible citizens, we have to be up on the whole picture, and then THINK FOR OURSELVES.

It seems popular now to put down our country, but I will not engage in that, no. It serves Russian interests because that is a part of what is coming out of Russian security forces propaganda . . . 'don't trust our government', 'don't trust the media', 'don't believe in our traditions and values of old and accept the 'new norms' provided by those who serve Putin's agenda . . .
Nope. I'm not going to trash my country, not now, not anytime. No way.
Others may do it, for whatever reasons. It is there free privilege. But I value the old ways, and being able to peacefully protest unfairness is not the same thing as 'sedition' but is a guaranteed right under our Constitution and must be preserved. So if people speak their mind openly and disagree with one another, that is ALLOWED. But don't trash the whole country, please.

Time to stand against the people that would take us down and destroy our norms and embrace those who lie to us while admitting they KNOW the truth. Time to support who we ARE as a nation.

You want to disparage your country? Before you do, go to Arlington National Cemetery and visit first or to ANY of the burial sites listed here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Cemetery_System

And then, think what you are saying and doing first. We owe our nation's war dead at least this much. That they died so that we could speak freely. Hard to trash-talk a nation that fielded such heroes, isn't it? I rest my case.

RB Kuter said...

"You want to disparage your country? Before you do, go to Arlington National Cemetery and visit first or to ANY of the burial sites listed here"

Love seeing your thoughts and appreciate your continuing dialogue.

Interesting take on my comments portraying my disdain for what I see as a continuing deterioration from what those honorable, heroic, men and women sacrificed with the ultimate they could give; their lives. You conclude this somehow portrays an absence of love, devotion, and value for what this country has represented for the past, almost, 300 years.

If I didn't know you better, I could likewise assess that your lack of acknowledging that deterioration and the downward, rapid spin our society is taking into the dark abyss of socialism, humanism, Marxism, and Godlessness, portrays an absence in your sincere value and devotion to those traditions, principles and values once possessed by this nation. It could be interpreted as a lack of valuing those gems of liberty by affiliating with those revolutionary power players intensely active in destroying what this nation once was.

I will not put you in the category of "not being devoted to this nation as you did me, in spite of my six years of service in the Marine Corps, my having 3 brothers who served in the Marines, one wounded twice in Viet Nam, and two other brothers who served in the Air Force, one in Viet Nam. Instead of stooping that low, I will simply scratch my head and ponder how so many could apply the "patriotic" rhetoric while conceding greater and greater compromises for what formerly would have been seen as support for ideologies hostile to the basic fabric of our American values.

RB Kuter said...

In regards to COVID, again, it is a very "fluid" issue and quickly fading in its value as political leverage used against the current Presidential Administration. It will soon be a foggy memory and other issues will be sensationalized, as was the "caravan movement of tens of thousand of invading, illegal, orchestrated, mobs striving to overwhelm our honorable border defense forces and other propaganda events intentionally created and promoted to be used as political fodder.

Scientist are of as diverse "opinions" and propositions on COVID as they are on evolution, global warming, and when a life becomes viable as to be considered "a human being". Quote a truckload holding to one opinion and we could collect another truckload holding the exact opposite. Even quoting "one" source as being the authority on the matter is subject to causing you embarrassment due to their fluidity moving from one position to another and then returning to their former position without shame, apology, or reason.

No, I don't read the myriad of links you provide but do appreciate your interest in making me aware of your position and those sources upon which you choose to rely, probably because they say what you want to hear. I believe it is reasonable for me to come to that conclusion because you never quote or provide links to those credible sources holding an alternative position.

I guess we both enjoy our dialogue together because we continue in them. So for that, I thank you.

Christiane said...

I appreciate and thank you for sharing your honest and open comments also, Mr. Kuter.

Christiane said...

More time-out for joy: courtesy of NORBERT, the therapy dog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPId5u8aE0o

we will all get through this election and go on to Advent and Christmas and hopefully a better New Year, God-willing

RB Kuter said...

Norbert is a strange animal. The cowboy outfit is kind of spooky, especially with the "tongue" thing!

Guess I'm too used to my Boston.

Thank you for the light interlude!

After "2020" I think we will be bored. If we only had known on January 1, 2020 when that "Big Apple" was coming down what 2020 would have in store I think all the revelers would have gone home and just pulled their pillows over their heads!

"2021" sounds more boring. Hope it will be!

Christiane said...

Agreed. May the next year be boring and uneventful and calm and peaceful and a lot more hopeful for everyone.

Good thoughts, Mr. Kuter, thank you.

Rex Ray said...

RB Kuter,

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/18/100306972/justice-ruth-bader-ginsburg-champion-of-gender-equality-dies-at-87

“Architect of the legal fight for women's rights in the 1970s, Ginsburg subsequently served 27 years on the nation's highest court, becoming its most prominent member. Her death will inevitably set in motion what promises to be a nasty and tumultuous political battle over who will succeed her, and it thrusts the Supreme Court vacancy into the spotlight of the presidential campaign.”

Wonder if her replacement will help reverse “Roe vs. Wade” that makes it legal for women to murder their unborn babies.

Rex Ray said...

CHRISTIANE,

How’s this for a story? A popular way to hunt moose in Alaska is to float a boat down river just before dark and shoot them while getting their last drink for the day.

A hunter had done this, but only broke his back leg. He couldn’t shoot again because the moose would move away. The next morning, he found him in the middle of a large shallow lake with his head out of water. (Leg didn’t hurt as much with no weight on it.)

Hunter wanted to kill him when he was out of the water. He yelled and fired his gun but without success. He started shooting closer, but got too close and killed him. He started looking for someone to help him. He found me.

Not having a boat, I’d worn a wet-suit with my rifle on an innertube. I got his moose out and he gave me half of it. The Fairbanks paper printed his story.

Christiane said...

Great story, REX RAY

glad to hear that the moose was killed for MOOSE-MEAT instead of just for sport
as that is something I can accept a whole lot easier

I bet the Fairbanks papers sold out that day when word got out about your story! :)

Here's a great moose picture (might be a reindeer, but pretty sure it's a moose)
https://assets.simpleviewinc.com/simpleview/image/upload/c_fill,h_640,q_50,w_1600/v1/clients/anchorage/Glen_Alps_Moose_JodyO_Photos_f56021dd-4c91-4c8d-9bcf-116819380281.jpg



Christiane said...

REX RAY,

I've given some thought to your comment addressed to Mr. Kuter, this:
"Wonder if her replacement will help reverse “Roe vs. Wade” that makes it legal for women to murder their unborn babies."

I fear that 'illegality' will merely change the geography of WHERE abortions occur
from a medical clinic to a back-alley butcher's table.

In God's time, may men come to realize this and use political power to address a very complex and tragic problem in a way that is profoundly more effective.
Don't be fooled by any rhetoric that tells you that there is a political 'short-cut' to ending abortion in our land.

The only 'light' I have seen recently to possible help to end some abortions was when there was talk of federal employees beginning to have paid parental leave. That was a POSITIVE and helpful issue for the sake of welcoming new life for parents, particularly for single mothers who must earn.

I found that was the FIRST TIME I had hope that our nation was coming up from the old ways towards practically dealing with the realities that exist in a country where medical care is tied to employment which is tied to 'no paid leave for maternity'. Such a situation for a single parent may force a decision to abort as a 'no way out' tragedy when all avenues of support are closed to her and she must earn to support her family and has a difficult demanding boss in control of her employment, her income, and the medical care for herself and her children. Complex? Yes. I'm afraid that there is a lot of work to be done to get our country up to speed with the other civilized Western countries in how support systems are conducted for new parents in ways that welcome new life, and don't 'punish women who fall pregnant with loss of employment and health care' in a land that has offered little or no national policy of help, other than to have legalized abortion so that the single mother might be able to cope, having no other national support policies to offer hope. . .

I'm Catholic. Also the mother of a child born with severe difficulties medically. I have many, many friends who have also birthed children with severe medical problems. And I don't know any women who 'want to murder their children', no.

Instead I have heard many men make comments, who are not yet able to comprehend the depths of the tragedy or yet been able to envision a better way forward than a 'quick fix' that involves punishment in a world where there is already enough pain. I hope understanding will come before we do more harm than good to end the tragedy.

Take a look at how the Western countries of Europe have offered paid parental leave as one way of helping young parents welcome new life.
And ask 'why?' our own country has languished so far behind that model that is so much more humane. Food for thought. My two cents worth. May we all try to do better in future. And let the Church turn towards the light again for solutions that help even those parents who someday might be considering a 'back-alley' abortion out of desperation . . .

so the 'answer' of the Church be hope in a political move to change the 'geography' of where women can go to get an abortion, but to change minds and hearts so that the complexities of WHY people make tragic decisions becomes into focus so real healing can begin and hope will return before it's too late.

Christiane said...

Last sentence should read:
"so may the 'answer' of the Church NOT be hope in a political move to change the 'geography of where women can go to get an abortion,
but INSTEAD to change minds and hearts . . . . "


sorry, I needed to proof-read. Thanks for letting me speak these thoughts, as I have seen a lot of women in crisis during my lifetime, and the casual 'hooting and hollering' doesn't rise to the level of concern needed to really address the issue which is far more complex and much in need of some Christian compassion for all concerned instead of hubris.

Victorious said...

I appreciate your comment and couldn't agree more with the points you've presented. The subject of abortion is complicated. There are many myths and misconceptions about who gets abortions, and why.

You may be interested in reading the underlying reasons and statistics here:

https://prochoice.org/wp-content/uploads/women_who_have_abortions.pdf

I found it to be very informative and helpful in understanding the reasons for abortion as well as the background of those who have one.

Victorious

Ramesh said...

Thank you for fixing Emmanuel Enid podcast feeds

🙏

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/517252-trump-supreme-court-nominee-will-most-likely-be-a-woman-announced

“Judges Amy Coney Barrett and Barbara Lagoa are said to be among the nominees the president is seriously considering, sources told The Hill. Others under consideration are Judges Amul Thapar and Allison Jones Rushing, though Trump's commitment to choose a woman would seem to take Thapar out of the running. All four individuals were nominated by Trump to their current positions on the federal appellate bench.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/13/why-joe-biden-wont-campaign-supreme-court/

“Back in February, Joe Biden pledged to nominate a black woman to the Supreme Court, which would be a first. “It’s long past time,” he said, and it’s hard to argue with that. But he hasn’t said much more about the Supreme Court. He’s offered comments on some of the court’s recent decisions, but he hasn’t tried to persuade or motivate voters based on the future of the court.”

In my opinion, I believe who would be appointed on the Supreme Court would influence a voter’s choice to be President.



Wonder if Joseph had not had THE dream, and it was OK for a non-married teenager to have an abortion, he would have wanted Jesus not to be born.

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/517252-trump-supreme-court-nominee-will-most-likely-be-a-woman-announced

“Judges Amy Coney Barrett and Barbara Lagoa are said to be among the nominees the president is seriously considering, sources told The Hill. Others under consideration are Judges Amul Thapar and Allison Jones Rushing, though Trump's commitment to choose a woman would seem to take Thapar out of the running. All four individuals were nominated by Trump to their current positions on the federal appellate bench.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/13/why-joe-biden-wont-campaign-supreme-court/

“Back in February, Joe Biden pledged to nominate a black woman to the Supreme Court, which would be a first. “It’s long past time,” he said, and it’s hard to argue with that. But he hasn’t said much more about the Supreme Court. He’s offered comments on some of the court’s recent decisions, but he hasn’t tried to persuade or motivate voters based on the future of the court.”

In my opinion, I believe who would be appointed on the Supreme Court would influence a voter’s choice to be President.

RB Kuter said...

Sorry, Rex Ray. My comments not coming through, if you get this one.

RB Kuter said...

Rex Ray, I'm gonna try sending a response to your comment made earlier. I've tried a number of times to respond with recent comments on this particular string of comments but have not been successful. Could be because my responses on this particular issue of the mass murder of innocent children sometimes express my extreme dismay.

It would be wonderful if the consciousness of America awoke to the extreme carnage and inhumane acts of the horrific procedures being done to kill by actually tearing the limbs off of innocent children by the millions under the guise of accommodating the rights of people to do so. My prayer is that one day the blindness to the un-Godliest of atrocities committed by our decadent American society would be lifted so as to open their rational and moral minds to what they have been doing.

It would be wonderful if there was such a reversal in the sentiment of our society in respect to this slaughter of innocents that a movement would result and the trend of merciless murders would simply cease without it being necessary for there to be a reversal in the law that supports it. My perspective is that our society has sunken so low as to its being incapable of seeing the need for repentance, confession, and submission to the most basic premise God portrays in His creation of humanity; the sanctity of life itself.

As it is, this society will more likely continue on its current downward path and proceed in its stark blindness until the day it faces judgement alongside Sodom and Gomorrah.

The hope I do have is that the perspective of the Court might continue along the line that we have witnessed in the past several years. The Court has not reversed "Roe", but it has been more favorable in a few decisions regarding state laws that seek to protect these youngsters and even the prospective abortion-ees. Still, some recent decisions indicate that an expansion of judges holding to a greater value for life is needed. For instance, the Judges ruled against doctors practicing in those abortion terror chambers having to be registered in a local hospital in case of emergencies arising during the abortion procedures.

The question of when the life of the child is viable, killing the child moments before it is delivered, etc., remain in question and the status of things continue to be against the rights of the child. This trend might change with an addition of someone who has gumption enough to assess the matter as being one involving the life of a human child. If that happened it could at least result in a reduction in the murders should Judges rule in favor of those pro-life advocates supporting cases favorable to the children

We will see, brother Rex. It continues to break my heart and obviously undermine my optimism for any improvement in this society as a whole.