On April 27-29, 2007, a Friday through Sunday, the Cornerstone Baptist Church of Arlington, Texas will host A Baptist Conference on The Holy Spirit. The purpose of this conference is to explore and examine the unity and diversity in Baptist life as it relates to the Holy Spirit and His gifts and to become more intimately acquainted with Him through worship and the study of God’s Word. This unique conference is designed to gather Baptist and evangelicals to learn more about the doctrine of the Holy Spirit and to experience the person and power of the Holy Spirit, as we worship and study God’s Word together in “spirit and in truth.”
There will be several keynote speakers including one of my favorite Southern Baptists teachers and theologians of all time, Dr. Sam Storms. Complete information about the conference can be found here. I would encourage you to make plans to attend. Rachelle and I are looking forward to staying through Sunday, and I anticipate that, unlike some conferences on the Holy Spirit I have attended, we will not just hear about Him, we will experience His presence.
Let me show you what I mean.
One of the lead worship leaders for this conference is a man by the name of Daniel Brymer. We have had the pleasure of Daniel leading in worship at Emmanuel during a Bible Conference with Sam Storms. For the first time that I can recall, our church experienced what others would term 'prophetic singing.' This occurs during a time the worship time when a leader of the worship is inspired to begin singing a song of worship that is neither written or prepared ahead of time. The song "My Word Is Sure" is a prophetic song sung during a worship time led by Daniel Brymer. Click on the link and listen to it. It is quite moving, and remember, it is sung during the worship service with no preparation. Nobody had even heard the song before, including the singer and the musicians.
This next song, "Let Your Healing Flow," is written by Daniel Brymer and is being used by God around the world to minister to people the grace and love of Jesus Christ. I like Daniel Brymer because he is Baptist in his beliefs and adheres to sovereign grace, but more important he is a very humble man. One of our Southern Baptist churches asked him recently to be their senior pastor, but Daniel feels called to an intinerate worship ministry. He will be leading us in worship at Arlington.
These are the kinds of people who will be at A Baptist Conference on the Holy Spirit in Arlingon, Texas this April 27-29. We will be joined by hundreds from Dwight McKissic's church as well, and I would anticipate that it will be a weekend you will never forget.
I hope to see you there.
51 comments:
May the ruach hakkodesh flow as a mighty river and all in attendence at the conference fall right in the middle of that river.
We signed up about, oh, one minute ago.
We'll be there, Lord willing.
Wade,
Those two songs are amazing! I haven't heard praise and worship music like that in some time. Wow. I would like to make the conference as well.
Brother Wade,
You say; "one of my favorite Southern Baptists teachers and theologians of all time". However, the only reference that Dr. Storms has on his website to Southern Baptist is; "Sam was raised in a Southern Baptist context". Exactly what does that mean? No pastoral experience, or training points to Southern Baptist. I was raised in a "farming community", but that does not make me a farmer.
Blessings,
or
Have a nice Day,
Tim
What beautiful music. What marvelous words.
Tim,
Sam's granddad was governor of Oklahoma and a wonderful Oklahoma Baptist. His brother in law is head of the Noble Foundation, one of the largest charitable foundations in the world and a member of a Baptist church in Ardmore. His mother is a longtime member of First Baptist Church, Duncan, Oklahoma, and his late father was a revered deacon at the church. By the way, FBC Duncan is now pastored by Clif Cummings, former pastor of FBC Beaumont, Texas where the Dorothy and Chuck Kelly grew up with their parents, a wonderful couple that I have had the honor of sharing a meal with on two occasions while in Beaumont. By the way, Sam recently preached a revival meeting at FBC Duncan. Sam's website may not give you those facts, but those of us in Oklahoma know him to be a wonderful Southern Baptist. By the way, Sam also happens to be member of the church I pastor --- Emmanuel Baptist Church in Enid, Oklahoma.
So, Tim, he may have more of a Southern Baptist heritage than you.
:)
Tim,
Does this mean you won't be going to the convention? Jeremy Green is planning on attending. You guys could split expenses. You guys sit on the front row :-)
I used to go to church with Daniel many years ago.
Where do I go to sign up?
I'm there.
Alyce
Alyce Lee,
Click on the link provided in the post that gives you the details of the conference. It will take you to Cornerstone's home site and you can download a brochure.
Wade,
What beautiful songs sharing the heart of God! Thank you so much for posting these links.
Wade,
Singing in the Spirit is totally rad. You better be careful though - a lot of old-schoolers don't like that kind of stuff!
J
I'll be there, Lord willing, and looking forward to it! I'm coming with the expectation of having a real encounter with the Spirit, whatever that might involve.
I'm registered.
Bob-wear the pink hat so I will recognize you.
Tell Debbie to come so I can meet her, as I am looking forward to meeting all of you :)
Jason-You'd be surprised what us 'ole schoolers can handle :)
Agape
Alycelee
It's too bad they didn't invite Jim Hamilton, a baptist (assoc. prof Southwestern Baptist Seminary). He did his dissertation on the Holy Spirit and spoke six times on the topic at The Northbrook Conference last fall. Links to the audio files are available on the conference website.
Thanks for the links to the songs. On that note (no pun intended), you might enjoy the new song "O God the Holy Spirit" by David Ward of ReformedPraise.org.
Hello Wade,
I would love to be at the conference, but my wife and I just can't make it happen. Do you know if the conference will be podcasted?
Thanks for any time you might offer my question...
by the way, by far the best sermon I've ever heard on heaven was "joy's eternal increase" preached by Sam Storms at the Desiring God pastor's conference a few years back. It was well worth the overnight drive in college.
Wade,
I just bumped my calendar against the dates for the conference. The BGCO Men's retreat is also that weekend. I am already committed to attend the Men's retreat. I hope that CD's or DVD's would be available after the confernce.
Jason,
You say, “…a lot of old-schoolers don’t like that kind of stuff”, but I’ll be 75 this week—so why were there tears in my eyes?
Rex Ray
Brother Wade,
Some of the comments in this thread certainly appears to be pitting those of us that do not hold to a practice of PPL as one that does not believe the Holy Spirit to be part of the Trinity. The references to the songs and others responses about how they have heard the songs and responded in tears are perfect examples. It appears to be a tacit approval that if you do not agree with the context of the conference then you are certainly a hardshell that doesn't desire any freedom of worship.
I have gone to the Reformed Praise site and here is their description of the songs they sing;
The person and work of the Holy Spirit is often minimized or misunderstood in many reformed circles. While many of us may believe that the Holy Spirit is not giving the miraculous gifts of the New Testament to the church today, we must not live and worship as if the Holy Spirit is not at work in us in experientially. God calls us to joyful, Christ-centered worship, and without the Spirit we have no hope of replacing our empty, self-seeking loves with genuine affection for Jesus. The prayer “The Spirit’s Work” from the Valley of Vision (a book of puritan prayers) beautifully describes a biblical view of the ministry of the Spirit and how it relates to our affections and experience of the Christian life. Our chief prayer for the filling of the Spirit must not be that we would experience uncontrolled emotions or that He would give us spiritual gifts. Rather, our chief prayer to the Spirit must be that He would “direct us to the cross” and “put Jesus on display” that our worship would be cross-centered and not Spirit-centered."
I submit that the Puritans understanding of the Holy Spirit would not be the classical understanding that is being formed by some of the organizers of this conference. I have read the lyrics to the song, "O God The Holy Spirit" and do not see anything in the lyrics that I could not agree with theologically. I reckon my question would be; "why all of the excitement over the bands playing?"
Blessings,
Tim
Tim Rogers,
No where in any of the posts has anything negative or condeming been said or insinuated about those of your persuassion. Maybe it's just the HS calling you to a deeper, fuller relationship with the 3n1. I've heard Christianity described a buffet table....some take a little meat and potatos...some some vegetables with the meat....some just take the dessert. It's not that anyone who partakes is wrong....some of us just want to partake of the whole enchilada.
Rex,
I think there is a difference between "old-schoolers" and "old-timers." Thank God not all "old-timers" are also "old-schoolers". :^)
The Holy Spirit touches you when He wants, and where He wants. It may be through worship, prayer, fellowship, preaching, mission trips, tough times in you life. We have no control over this. We merely need to submit.
Tim,
See Jake's comment.
I am an "old timer." I still like "In the garden", "Take my life and let it be" or "Nearer my God to Thee." If the 7/11 work even to nice music go for it. I wonder what we are going to do with more information about the Holy Spirit when we don't use what we got? Just a thought.
Brother Wade,
I take it when you say; "See Jake's comment" you are advocating approval of what is posted by someone else. Therefore, let me just give you my understanding that was behind what I said.
"May the ruach hakkodesh flow as a mighty river and all in attendence at the conference fall right in the middle of that river." A clear HS elitist position.
"Sam's granddad was governor of Oklahoma and a wonderful Oklahoma Baptist. His brother in law is head of the Noble Foundation, one of the largest charitable foundations in the world and a member of a Baptist church in Ardmore." Another elitist position.
"Tim,
Does this mean you won't be going to the convention? Jeremy Green is planning on attending. You guys could split expenses. You guys sit on the front row :-)" A clear attempt marginalize me.
"Singing in the Spirit is totally rad. You better be careful though - a lot of old-schoolers don't like that kind of stuff!" Do I even need to comment?
"I'll be there, Lord willing, and looking forward to it! I'm coming with the expectation of having a real encounter with the Spirit, whatever that might involve." Will there be barking and regurgitation?
"Jason-You'd be surprised what us 'ole schoolers can handle :)" Just another attempt to make certain that we all can agree with any abuse of doctrine we want to attribute to the HS.
"I've also listened to both songs - what a blessing! There is a huge difference between the uptight, parsimonious folks who view doctrine as the centerpiece of christianity, and those who view Jesus - and relationship with Him - as the center. It's the difference between tight-lipped dogmatism and free flowing, endless abundant joy from the Father. I know which Christianity I prefer!" I will only comment that Jesus has never been negated to anyplace but the center of Christianity. It seems odd that those who are pushing the HS to be the Center are accusing those who disagree with placing Doctrine there. It is a vain attempt to paint those who disagree with PPL being scriptural as being Pharisaical.
Enjoy This unique conference.
Blessings,
Tim
Tim,
I think we would all agree that anyone who places experience over doctrine or, for that matter, doctrine over experience, are making a mistake. Our walk with Christ is incomplete without both. We experience the joy of our salvation when we do what Jesus would according to His Word and worship Him -- through our actions during the week and in church -- in Spirit and in truth.
I have been a part of several praise worship settings in my student ministry days-- all of which were baptist events or sponsored by baptists -- and have never once walked away with any impression other than how incredible my Savior is. Not how incredible the Holy Spirit is (although He's beyond incredible) but Jesus. My worship never involved anything related to PPL, but I did several things that some would relate to charismatic circles -- raising my hands, kneeling, getting on my face.
Non of these things have made me less baptist -- only closer to Jesus and more motivated to be used by Him to turn my community upside down for Christ. Baptist need not fear an encounter with the Holy Spirit -- He'll make sure the attention goes to God the Son as well as God the Father.
Grace,
Jeff Parsons
Amarillo, TX
Tim,
I gave you an old fashioned ribbing with my comment about you and Jermy Green. It was meant in jest simply because I knew you have issues with this blog. However, I am amazed that you and others that don't often agree keep coming to comment. I am glad that you do. What is it that draws you back month after month? I think I know but only you can answer that question.
I don't believe that anyone has marginalized you. You simply have differing views. So what! You are still my brother in Christ. I will probably be living accross the street from you in Heaven. Jeremy will live next door. Wade will be around the corner.
Waging war with each other is futile and fruitless. Again I say noboby has faulted you for your beliefs.
May you have a Blessed Lord's Day tomorrow as you impact your community for Christ!
Brother Jeff,
You Said; "but I did several things that some would relate to charismatic circles -- raising my hands, kneeling, getting on my face." That type of comment is exactly my point. No one has every related the openness of worship to Charismatic doctrine. However, you have just marginalized me because I disagree worship of the Holy Spirit. The tone of the comments and the direction of the responses to me clearly point to a worship of the Holy Spirit. That is my point.
Brother Bill Scott,
You usually get to know someone before you give them an old fashioned ribbing. Also, in your response, thanks for tacitly judging my motives. You see by placing my name in the same line as Jeremy Green's you just placed me in the margin of being what the author of this blog would call a "spooky fundamentalist" or a "jr. pastor". But that is okay, because Brother Jeremy is one that I am honored to be associated with.
Blessings,
Tim
Blessings,
Tim
John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Tim: I have read the same posts that you are referring to and did not come away with what you have at all. It's simply people relaying what these songs touched in them. It's simply sharing. Nothing more. I would think you would not discourage this.
Tim,
If you felt marginalized by my comments, then I sincerely apologize. That was not my intent at all. My point was two fold: First, that there is an experiential element to worship, and second,that many baptist have a certain level of fear toward what some may feel are worship expressions associated with charismatic churches. I'm glad to hear you relate them to openness of worship. Some where I live aren't quite as open minded.
Getting back to the point of this post, any conference on the Holy Spirit certainly has the potential to take our focus off Jesus. However, if Christ-like men who fear God and revere His word are teaching, I have confidence that they will do so under submission to the Holy Spirit and therefore Christ will be glorified.
I'm hoping my schedule works out so I can attend.
Grace,
Jeff Parsons
I've read this article twice, and through the responses two or three times, and I have to agree with Debbie. I don't see anything that has been shared that isn't Biblical. I don't get the impression that anyone is pushing Pentecostal or Charismatic teaching.
I can only testify to my own experiences. I don't speak in tongues or have a private prayer language, but I sure hope that if the Spirit gifted me in such a way that I wouldn't sit there and think about what my Baptist friends might think about it. I have been in worship where spontaneous, Spirit-led singing takes place, and have experienced what I would call a "filling" as a result. The Bible tells us to lift holy hands in worship, that's something I've understood since I was in college and I have learned, after years of going to church, singing hymns and listening to sermons, that I need to go with an expectation of a touch from the Spirit, and not just another Sunday service with a fried chicken dinner afterward (I can't eat chicken anyway, I'm allergic to it).
I'm going to this conference with an open mind, and an open heart, and I expect to experience an encounter with Him. I want to experience Him. And I'll be submissive to whatever way He choses to do that.
Brother Tim,
You said, "The tone of the comments and the direction of the responses to me clearly point to a worship of the Holy Spirit. That is my point."
I really don't understand how you come to the conclusion that "clearly point(s) to the worship of the Holy Spirit."
I am troubled at the inferences that people can make sometimes about marginilization. It is okay to differ in what is posted here. It is essential that you differ on the facts and not on devisive inferences.
I read again Wade's post and the comments to it. I still don't see where anyone advocated "Holy Spirit worship." Maybe I am theologically ingnorant but anwer me this question. How can you worship the Lord God and forget about the Trinity?
I don't agree that I have placed you in the margin. If anything you feel marginalized it is because your comments were not in the "majority" of posts in this thread. If you feel maginalized it is because of your stance. That is okay. Just try not to be touchy because everyone on this blog doesn't agree with you positions on these issues.
Once again the value of this blog is rising to the surface. These issues raised in this post are secondary issues.
You have stated your belief in the Trinity. That is the most important common ground on which you and I stand together. If you don't like the "band" as you said that is okay. Don't listen to it. I believe that your worship is as valid as mine.
Please don't get wrapped up in non-essentials.
As we engage in this dialogue we should always be mindful of Titus 3:9-11. I am however, respecfully disagreeing with some of the things you have said in this thread.
What are you preaching on tomorrow Brother?
One of the most important leadership lessons I have learned over the years is to listen for truth in the criticism of others… that is to always ask the questions is there any truth in what they are saying… and what does God want me to learn from this?
Could it just be that there is a warning from God in what Brother Tim has said here?
(John 4:19-24) reminds us all that doctrine does matter in our worship of the Father…
“19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
God is not worshiped in “dead orthodoxy”…
God is not worshiped in “doctrinal error”…
God is worshiped only in “Spirit and Truth”…
------
Knnuki,
I was saddened by what you wrote…
It has been my experience that my worship has been deepened exponentially by the serious study of doctrine…
The more I know of my great need and of His great grace… the more my heart soars in worship of our awesome God.
Grace to all,
Tim Rogers,
You seem to think my “tears” (actually they were only moist) persecuted you for not holding to the practice of PPL. How judgmental can you get?
The words of the song touched my heart, but I’ve never practice PPL even though I believe it. I know of no one in our church that has a PPL. In fact, I’m upset for the last six months our church has been required to stand for all songs.
There I am, after a couple of songs, sitting like a bump on a log; can’t sing new songs because the screen is hidden by unattractive parts of people.
I sit with my wife whose back hurts when she stands, and several in our church are unable to stand. I’ve complained at our deacon’s meeting and am told to go ahead and sit. So that’s what I do, but I’m very much ‘not in the Spirit’ when preaching starts.
I’m sure the conference that Wade promises “You’ll never forget” won’t be like a service my niece will never forget.
Before she married and graduated with her husband from SWTS, one of its summer courses required visiting other denominations. After another girl and she explained their purpose, they asked to observe from the back, but were told all visitors were required to sit on the front row.
The service was about over when someone announced America was bombing Baghdad.
The preacher shouted, “Its Armageddon! Lock the doors! No one leaves till we’re all saved!”
Tongues everywhere; people going down front; round and round. One woman fainted and almost fell on the Presbyterian girl.
They tried to leave but were escorted back to the front row. Around ten o’clock, someone yelled, “Get the snakes!”
“Why are they talking snakes?”
My niece replied, “They believe in handling snakes.”
“I’m going out a window!”
After a lot of begging, they were allowed to leave.
My niece is tough but she cried all over the place when she called her mother.
Rex Ray
Rex,
I can assure Tim and your niece that this conference will be nothing like what you have described.
That's hilarious - if it were not so sad.
:)
Hold on a second.
Why on earth would you criticize the worship of the Holy Spirit? Do we not pray to and worship a God who is triune? Why is "Holy Spirit-worship" something to be shunned or avoided?
Why would we worship the Father and the Son but neglect the worship of the Holy Spirit? Is He not an equal person of the Trinity? Is He undeserving of our worship? Are we commanded NOT to worship Him?
Good question Laura. I was wondering the same. If we worship "one and only one living and true God"(BF&M 2000)how do we sepatate them so? Are all three persons not equally "worthy of veneration"? Or am I naive as to Baptist theology in this?
Wade,
I forgot to mention my niece was so far back in the hills, the small town’s sheriff was present to make sure people checked their guns as none were allowed in the church.
She thought maybe they had some heated discussions over doctrine, but later she may have decide some may have been tempted to shoot their way out.
So you think guns won’t be needed at the conference? But that might settle any debate a lot quicker than blogging. There have been wars if a baby had some water sprinkled on them or not. Maybe we’ve learned something from history.
Did you read on Brad Reynolds’ blog the Mormon that insisted when Jesus was in the grave; he taught the prophets how to witness to the lost after they died. (Those who never heard the gospel.)
BTW, what happened to Brad, he’s been gone since 2-13-07 saying he had a new ministry.
Rex Ray
Rex,
I had a similar experience in Wyoming County, West Virginia back in the '70's. I was a door to door book salesman earning money for college and ran into a Pentecostal minister who invited me to his church. We had to go on Sunday night, because we had team meetings in Charleston on Sunday morning. There were about 20 people in the church, and I think they'd all spoken in tongues and got slain in the spirit at least twice each by the time the altar call came around. That's when they got the Copperheads out of a box. I've never exited a building as quickly as that.
This thread may be over, but I must say I don't appreciate people putting words in my mouth.
Most people who have observed me here in blog land know I'm pretty straight forward-I say, what I say.
My comment was to Jason. I inferred NOTHING. In fact, I seldom if ever INFER.
If however, I were to comment to you Tim, it would be this: I don't understand why first you protest why Sam Storms is speaking (especially since I have heard him speak, wondering if you have, and I have read his books.) He being "purebred bonefide Baptist is of no consequence to me."
Lastly, you said: "Our chief prayer for the filling of the Spirit must not be that we would experience uncontrolled emotions or that He would give us spiritual gifts." The scripture says: Desire the gifts.
Now, if you want to draw a line on what gifts, where, when, how, that's your prerogative. I choose not to draw lines.
Alycelee, I believe it says, "Earnestly desire the spiritual gifts"!
Laura, indeed! I was trying not to be TOO hard on him :)
Lee,
I’m glad I haven’t made a run for the exit as you described. But on the other hand, I’ve received the ‘healing power of snakes.’
It happened like this: Pain in back, quit work for the day, doctor prescribe hot bath and bed. It took a long time to be able to get in the tub.
I laid back and picked up a newspaper I’d gotten from the yard. Felt something on my stomach; raise newspaper and a snake took a beeline for the top of my head but stopped short 2 inches from my nose with his tongue cussing me.
I AROSE FROM THE TUB. Instant temporary cure.
Rex Ray
Alycelee (I might name my daughter Alyce, because I think it's the prettiest name I've come across in ages -- just as an unrelated sidenote), yes, heavens! Don't be too hard on him!
Can anyone (including Tim) answer me why we shouldn't worship the Holy Spirit? Oh, and I've never spoken in tongues and I almost have a degree from SBTS. Does that give me enough pedigree to ask such a question?
Laura, are you 'with child' now?
I was named after my mother's sister. A women now in her 80's and a woman who is now and as far as I can remember a godly woman. I am honored to carry her name.
I quote John Gill on the subject: "the Holy Spirit is also the object of worship equally with the Father and the Son. He is with them the one God. He is possessed of all divine perfections, such as eternity, omniscience, omnipresence, & he was concerned in creation, and is in the government of the world, and in the operations of grace, Ps 33:6; Isa 40:13,14; 1Co 12:4-11 and so worthy of worship, and it is given unto him. Baptism is administered in his name, equally as in the name of the Father and of the Son, Mt 28:19. Prayer is made unto him; not only is he the Spirit of grace and of supplication, and who helps the saints under their infirmities in prayer, but he is prayed unto; "the Lord", that is, the Lord the Spirit, "direct your hearts", &c. where all the three persons are mentioned as distinct, 2Th 3:5 so grace and peace, as they are wished and prayed for from God and Christ, so "from the Seven Spirits which are before the throne"; by which are meant the one Spirit of God so called, because of the fulness of divine perfections in him, and because of the perfection of his gifts and graces, Re 1:4,5. Moreover his graces wrought in the saints, as they come from him, they are exercised on him, as faith, trust, and an holy confidence in him, that he who has begun the good work in them will finish it; and there is also the love of the Spirit, a cordial love of him, and a carefulness not to grieve him by whom they are sealed unto the day of redemption."
I submit to Mr Gill's commentary.
Tim,
I'm a bit confused by some of your comments. Maybe you can help me out with a word of clarification?
In a comment on this post, I said, "Singing in the Spirit is totally rad. You better be careful though - a lot of old-schoolers don't like that kind of stuff!" Your response was, "Do I even need to comment?" Well, apparantly you do need to because you made this remark. When I made the comment I did, I was poking fun at Wade - I had no theological agenda (as I will have when I respond to your next comment below) - just having fun on the blog. I can see now that if I'm to read and comment on these blogs, I'm going to have to look out for those who take it more seriously than I do and are, hence, a little more sensitive than I am.
Also in response to Alycelee's comment, "Jason-You'd be surprised what us 'ole schoolers can handle :)," you responded by saying, "Just another attempt to make certain that we all can agree with any abuse of doctrine we want to attribute to the HS." Are you kidding me? I don't think myself or Alycelee were defending anything that you inappropriately brought into the conversation such as "regurgitation." We were merely discussing an experience, singing in the spirit, that is a wonderful, God-blessed, and Christ-centered expression of worship. Do you seriously have issue with this? I don't want to assume anything about your beliefs or positions, so maybe you can offer an explanation as to why you believe that "singing in the spirit" is, as you say, an "abuse of doctrine?" Please forgive me if I have misunderstood you in any way - but I would (and I think other people would, as well) enjoy an explanation as to why you think this is an abuse.
Blessings,
Jason Epps
Tim,
You failed to respond to my private attempt to have dialogue with you. So I take the conversation public. Will you still fail to respond to those of us who have questions and have asked in all humility for an answer?
Brother Tim,
Please, in now way have I attempted to marginalize you because you have cessasionalist beliefs (or at least appear to). I take to email to continue this discussion if you are willing. I am not an "elitist" nor do I want to be.....I also did not want any of the "gifts of the spirit" either....Tim in 1978 I didn't even want to be a Christian much less be swimming in the river with a bunch of baptists, pentecostals and other assorted folks God had called to receive gifts in order to fulfill His will in others lives. As you know, God gifts each of us in order to accomplish what He desires. Some teach/preach and I thank Him for the sometimes dry preacher that is delivering me knowledge that will later be needed (doctrine). In the same manner I thank Him for the worship leader that brings a service that refreshes my tired and dry spirit. It's been said that one of the jobs of the HS is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. I was once comfortable but became afflicted untill I realized God was calling me for a purpose. Tim, I've walked through this life for 57 years now.....some of that time was nearly unbearable and would have been had it not been for the comforting of HS walking beside me. The greek word used for what we call the HS is periclete. Have you ever had an experience where you absolutley did not know what to say in prayer, to comfort a grieving person or someone laying in a hospital bed? Scriptures tell us that the HS (periclete) will whisper in our ear the words to say that are just right for the given situation. God give other gifts....healing at the hands of a believer perhaps....does it happen with regularity? I would say no to that....and the reason is that we don't have enough faith. Not that we don't have enough faith to pray for healing but enough faith to withstand what we think other people will say about our success or failure in that healing prayer. The movement of the HS makes folks nervous, doesn't it Tim? People get uncomfotable when we have to get out of our zone. The movement of the HS requires....commands that we move out of that comfort zone.....to accomplish that which God wills. Tim, God is calling you too even though you have already answered before. He has need of you to learn and grow and accomplish other things becaused of your faithfullness. Maybe you just need refereshing....maybe He has need of a prophet in your neck of the woods.....maybe someone in your congregation needs healing that will only be accomplished by annointing and prayer. I don't ask you to wallow or regurgitate,laughing here, I simply ask you to allow the HS free reign in you life, to move you from that comfort zone to the area that He has chosen to use you. The song I am listening to right now says it best......come live in me....all my life....take over.....come live in me I will ride on eagles wings.
Your servant in Christ,
Jake
Alycelee -- unless you've seen a very large and important star in the East over my house in Louisville, I am not with child! But like many single gals I ponder names for my future children (Lord willing) with some regularity.
I, too, defer to John Gill. One of my church's elders said the same thing this evening when I asked him for clarification about this issue. I wonder if Tim meant something more like Holy Spirit idolatry -- the idolatry of experience? Certainly we are meant to worship the Holy Spirit as one of the persons of the Trinity, but we are not meant to seek ecstatic spiritual experiences for their own sake, or "fillings" or "anointings" for their own sake. Perhaps Tim was referring to that sort of thing.
I would dearly love to attend this conference! Sam Storms has been one of my favorite authors since I first read his essay in "Are Miraculous Gifts for Today?"
Still waiting for an explanation as to why "singing in the Spirit" is an abuse.
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