I really appreciate everyone who has honored my posts over the last several months by making comments that pertain to what I have written. I would like to show my appreciation by offering to each of you an opportunity to ask any question of me that you would like to ask. I would only ask that the questions be phrased clearly and in the fewest number of words possible.
I promise to answer every question that you ask. You may not like the answer, and it may not be as lengthy as you like, but I will answer your questions honestly and forthrightly.
Please recognize that I do not officially represent any agency. Official press releases and public statements are neither my duty nor my forte. I will be giving you just one man's opinion.
This "Ask Any Question Weekend" will end Saturday night. I will post the first question myself to help you see that the brevity of words in both the questions and answers will help us all learn more.
For this one weekend I will let people post questions anonymously in order to allow some with no blogs to ask questions.
Blessings to you and have a great weekend.
Wade
221 comments:
1 – 200 of 221 Newer› Newest»Did you go to SWBTS and hear Dr. Page speak?
Bill,
I had a nightmare trip back from Spartanburg Wednesday night. The plane was over an hour late leaving Spartanburg, two hours late leaving Houston. I arrived in OKC at 2:00 a.m. Thursday and the airline lost my luggage. Rather than driving to Fort Worth as I intended, I drove to Enid, arriving at 3:30 a.m. I did listen to Dr. Page via live streaming video. I'll comment on his great message Monday.
What is (are) the component(s) of your Christian walk that bring
vitality to your faith?
Vitality is defined in the dictionary in one of two ways that is applicable to the above question. 1)power to survive and 2) the capacity to live, grow, and develop.
It is in this second vein that my question rests.
Thanks,
David Robbins
Who shot JR?
David Robbins,
An absolute belief in the total sovereignty of God in every area of my life.
As A.W. Pink says, "Nothing happens but that God either promotes it, prohibits it, or permits it."
There are obviously other components, including a high view of the grace of God, but God's sovereignty gives me the greatest vitality.
Kevin,
All I know is I didn't.
Since I'm sure someone has accused me, I go on the record denying it :).
Kevin, you were thinking the same thing I was when I saw this. You beat me to it, so it's not funny anymore. I was going to ask,
"What's your appendix for?"
"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" And,
"How many licks DOES it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop?"
Foiled again by the Recovering Pharisee!!! Wade's trying to be serious, so, I digress. But, if you know the answers, Wade, I'd be much obliged. :)
Boxers or briefs?
What is the approximate air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
I should rename the weeend 'Ask Any Serious Question' Weekend.' All other questions will be asked by Alan and Kevin.
:)
Dude! Monty Python! You win, you win! I WILL NOT come back, lest you taunt me some more and spit in my general direction!
Wade, with as nasty as things got in the baptist blogosphere this week, I guess Kevin and I are just wanting to be silly. Still waiting for the Tootsie Roll pop answer, though.
Sorry for the hijack! :) Let's all get serious now . . .
women deacons? Yay Nay
plurality of elders or single pastor?
Mary Ann or Ginger?
Hashman
I'm trying to think up a really good one. This is like "Ask the Pastor" 5th Sunday. I don't want to waste my question. I'll be back.
:)
When Trustees are flying to attend IMB meetings, does the IMB pay for that?
If so, do all the frequent flyer miles go to the IMB for use (like donating to the Make a Wish foundation or some such), or do the individual trustees just accumulate the frequent flyer miles for personal use?
Like Bogart in Casablanca: Of all the preachers in all the places in all the world why Flaming?
cb
one more thing,
Read my last comment on Brad's blog. It will answer your question to me from yesterday when I could not contact you. I never said you were a liberal.
I may not spell Oklahoma correctly all the time, but I do know the difference between a liberal and a conservative. I can also recognize a nut when I see one:-)
cb
Brother Wade,
Can the issues listed in Dr. Frank Page's May 22, 2006 Press Release be effectively addressed with the current management and executive committee at the Southern Baptist Convention?
Wade,
I am a missionary servign in a limited access country. I just returned from anothe rlimited access coutnry where I met with several misiosnaries there. We all have the same concern. the current direciotn of the IMB seems ot be to the extent that unless youare called to a CPM you are not wanted. there does not seem ot be any looking to different giftings or otherwise. Therre are currently few places for someone gifted as a doctor, seminary professor, music or youth director - or numerous other roles. I feel that the IMB has narrowed its focused to the extent that we alreayd know of several in Southenr Baptist churches who because of this narrow focus have gone with other agencies and their Southern Baptist churches have diverted funds from CP and Lottie to help support the person they are familiar with - and we see this more and more as a trend. Yes church planting and a church planting movement is great - but don't youthink that opportunities should be opened for those with other areas of giftnedness - I beleive the Bible tells us to feed the hungry, heal the sick, and take care of widows and orphans and yet in the country I was in last week - while there are many orphans there - the IMB would never get involved in doing somehting like that - it does not fit New Directions.
So questions: Do you sense an opening up of opporutnities for those in other areas of giftedness who might not be gifted to start a CPM or even as a church planter? (Feel free to eidt the first poriton if you need to - I just wanted to give soem background to my quesiotns)
Mostly I want to AMEN the previous comment and question from another IMB missionary. Not all of us are super gifted as church planters and a CPM is not currently happening in my area. Is there still room or need for experienced (and certain of their calling) missionaries with other giftings in the IMB anymore under the rule of CPM only? It's sort of like what Ronald Reagan about not leaving the Demo party, it left him. I feel sort of the same way. I do not want to leave the IMB, but I get the feeling they want to leave me. Finally, how does a missionary stay faithful to their calling from God when pressure from supervisors contradicts that?
Praying for better days ahead for the good old IMB.
Before I ask my question, I want to say that my husband and I sense this is the beginning of a reformation in the church, the universal church. Not a doctrinal reformation, as some see, but an and opportunity for expansion, if you will, of the entire body of Christ.
This is why I am here and remain hopeful, encouraged and prayful.
I also, believe it my responsibility to be aware and alert.
Wade, do you see this time, and what is going on in the SBC as perhaps a line that God as drawn in the sand for us as Baptist, a distinctive time for us to make some changes, in our attitudes, our minds, laying a few things down for the sake of unity and love and do you feel a responsibility in God in this mission?
Thanks and blessings to you and yours.
Alyce
Wade,
May I offer you a multiple choice question that might save you a little time (and with "other" as an option so it’s open-ended for you)?
Why is it that the SBC is the only large historic denomination that has not made room for a fellowship of "charismatic" churches under our tent (like the Methodists, Lutherans, even Presbyterians and Catholics have, for example)?
Would you say it's mainly because of:
a) the excesses of the charismatic movement and the off-putting attitudes of the "haves" vs. the "have not’s"
b) the firm theological convictions of most Baptist pastors/leaders (i.e., the certainty of the rightness of our own interpretations of Scripture and low tolerance of others)
c) fear of change or of rejection or of emotionalism
d) our denominational structure (assoc, state, nat'l) and local church autonomy which makes it impractical, improbable, or even unnecessary
e) all or a combination of the above
f) other __________________
Thanks for inviting the questions! Maybe I’ll host this question on my rather inactive blog for any others who might want to weigh in.
What has God been teaching you through these events of the past few months, and how, if any, has it changed you?
Wade:
Was any action taken, during the recent BoT meetings, to address the instructions of the Greensboro Convention to investigate certain matters as outlined in your motion at the Convention?
If so, what?
If not, why not (in your opinion)?
Wade,
On your Church's website, a Dr. George M. Ella is the author of the Church's History. Is this the Same Dr. Ella who wrote "John Gill and the Cause of God and Truth?"
If so, what is his connection with your church?
Hashman,
Women deacons? The New Testament speaks of deaconness Phoebe. I would have no problem with deaconness if they were truly servants and not elders or a board of authority like they are in most churches. Frankly, the concept of "ordination" for deacons is foreign to the New Testament. Men and women were set aside with the laying on of hands for a specific task (servants). Once the task was finished, their task was complete.
Plurality of pastors. Nowhwere in the New Testament do I see a single pastor with singular authority. We have several pastors at Emmanuel (or elders, or bishops, or whatever NT word you wish to call them). I am the teaching pastor and the first among equals. I do believe personally that the role of pastor is reserved for males --- but I don't break fellowship with my evangelical friends who disagree.
Ginger. :)
Wade
Dorcas,
That is a very good question. The IMB pays for all the trips of their trustees to Board meetings, whether mileage by car, or by airplane. The mileage reimbursement cannot exceed what an airline ticket would cost. This is a similar policy for every SBC agency.
One big name pastor got in trouble with his church when it was discovered by audit he was double billing his expenses. Allowing the agency to pay for his ticket and turning a copy of the receipt into his church for reimbursement.
Shame on him. He was fired.
I assume the mileage goes to the individual and not the IMB. I don't know since I have never turned in my freguent flier number myself to get the mileage on IMB trips.
Wade
CB,
Thank you my friend. I really appreciate the affirmation.
Why Flaming? As heaven is my witness I never heard of the man.
I went to see his church because of the BELL in the courtyard --- quite a historical bell it is --- and the Pastor's secretary took me to his office.
I did no research on him before I posted of meeting with him, still do not know him, and I plan on calling him soon to see if he denies the Virgin Birth.
Of course, if he does, then he would be a classic liberal.
It would not change the fact I will be nice to him. It will not change the fact I WAS nice to him.
I would not want him to be in leadership if he denies the veracity of Scripture --- and I will let you know what he tells me.
Why Flaming?
Maybe in the Providence of God it is to show that Southern Baptists can be nice to fellow Cooperative Baptist Pastors, even if we don't want them serving in the SBC --- and I don't.
Pastor Wade, Its good to hear from you again. Do you believe that at Refuge at Emmanuel, that the Holy Spirit is more welcome by the worshippers than at the regular services? Do you believe that there is more hunger for God or is there no difference. If so why? Thanks......David
Mr. Anonymous,
I cannot answer your question directly because it would require me to reveal some things that were shared in our last PUBLIC session that were very exciting --- but the attorney of the IMB came and asked me not to say anything publicly about it --- and even asked me to call a couple of people and ask them remove anything they heard from their blogs (i.e. Marty Duren, etc . . ).
I did. They did. Nobody wants to put anything out for the public that should remain private, but the IMB is grappling with how to filter information in such a way that security is not compromised, but at the same time, the SBC is excited about what is happening.
To answer your question --- YES, there is some vision for other areas of ministry --- never to exclude evangelism, but ministry using other gifts.
What can the average layperson do to help the IMB Trustees see the need to repeal or replace the PPL and Baptism policies that went into effect last year?
Alycelee,
Yes I do see the Southern Baptist Convention becoming more gentle and gracious toward fellow evangelicals, and refusing to draw lines of fellowship over third tier doctrines that the lost in Timbuktu care nothing about.
It's happening. It will continue to happen, and we will all be better for it.
Bowden,
The average person can do see three things if he is not happy with the new policies.
(1). Pray.
(2). Contact the trustees on the individual committees and give them your opinion --- please be gracious in your writing (Bowden, I know you will, that was for others).
(3). Do your part to help elect trustees who are likeminded. This would include contacting your Nominating Committee members that Frank Page is appointing this year and giving them names of people you think would be good servants in trustee positions. This is how things work.
Remember, the only people who can change the policy are the trustees. The SBC controls the appointment of trustees --- flowing through the President.
So . . .
If you hear someone is opposing Frank Page in San Antonio, your radar ought to be on high alert. Show up in SA and support Frank.
Todd and Kiki,
Your questions require a lengthy answer. I will devote some time to them and post them sometime tonight or tomorrow morning.
Bob Cleveland,
No action was taken regarding the committee except an announcement that the Executive Committee would be looking into the matter and bring their report back to the Board prior to the SBC.
I personally believe things are getting better (as I have said). I am not so much interested in the past as I am the future.
Please be patient on this one.
It is my motion, and I think some people are working through it as best they can. I will attempt to keep you informed.
I believe the next meeting in St. Louis (October 30-November 1) is critical.
Jim Shaver,
Yes, it is the same Dr. Ella.
He is one of my dearest friends.
I have requested permission to write his offical biography.
One of these days I will tell you about my relationship with George.
He is in poor health in Mulheim, Germany, and my prayers are with him and his wife Erika
No more answers until later.
Friday golf beckons.
:)
Two questions; How do you define conservative? And has this definition changed?
Forget all the political stuff, I need some of what has shaped your God given wisdom. For the first time in my ministry, I have some personal development money. What books, commentaries, resources, etc., have you found valuable in assuring your preaching and ministry are faithful to God's Word?
Wade,
Would you please give us your defintions of a "conservative" Baptist and "moderate" Baptist?
Thanks for the opportunity to ask these questions.
Les
My question is: when you get back on BOT committees in the very near future, which committee would you like to be on? (do yo get to choose, or are you just "assigned"?)
Wade, thanks for the answer.
Rzrbk, my question wasn't intended to be loaded. The fact that we collectively support missionaries and they can serve on the field without having raise a particular amount of support is one of the great things about the SBC. That missionaries can come and share what God is doing and not worry that they have to get a certain number of sponsors is a great blessing to both the churches and the missionaries.
My question came from some discouragement at the extent to which we rely on Mission Service Corps people in the U.S. who do have to ask for support. (Interestingly an MSC person was featured in the NAMB Annie Armstrong videos, it was mentioned that he raises his own support).
I am glad to hear that IMB missionaries don't have to fundraise in that way but can share with churches big and small, rich and poor what God is doing through the giving of SBC churches.
Sorry to hijack. Enjoy the golf.
Here's a lighthearted question: Tiger guy or Phil guy?
Wade,
I have a serious question?
How do you handle all of the ugly criticism from all over the world?
How do you protect your family from this?
BTW, I appreciate your spirit. If anyone would spend 5 min. with you I believe your enemies would change their opinion! U da man!
Sorry, anonymous posted at 12:17 pm is me. I forgot to add identifying information.
In case you're wondering, I lean toward the Phil guy side...
David Eaton
Assoc. Prof. of Economics
Murray State University
Murray, KY 42071
Harvey,
Am I the only one seeing a pooka? I might need to check into HappyDale!
Wade,
Pardon my ignorance on the matter. But, what does the IMB do to connect missionaries with their (or other) local churches?
Wade:
Thanks for that answer. We needed to hear it (well ... read it).
I don't know how patient I can be, though. At my age, when I order a steak well done, they want me to pay in advance. :)
How many times does your Bible use the word sovereign?
My question is a bit more practical. Where in St. Louis is the IMB board meeting, what events could I attend, and what could I expect from those meetings?
I know the commissioning service is Oct 31 in Cape Girardeau, 2 hours south of St. Louis. I also see that there is a West Africa Impact Summit Nov 1-3 in St. Charles, 30 minutes west of St. Louis.
Will the public board meetings be Monday, Oct 30?
Wade,
Did any of the trustees appointed to the ad hoc committees examining the baptism and prayer language policies oppose the policies when they were voted on last year?
Is Rachelle really taller than you?
Who does your hair?
Were you ever a weatherman?
How many different pairs of shoes do you own?
Do you still preach from the old KJV, by that of course I mean the 1648 version still written in old English lettering? Because if you don't you're a stinkin' liberal!!!!!
Wade,
You stated "IMB Missionaries are fully funded by the Cooperative Program and gifts to the IMB. It is forbidden for IMB missionaries to raise any personal support. Lottie Moon offerings cover the work on the field." But that isn't true. One of the questions on the form is if we want full support, half support, or do we want to raise a given amount and they cover the rest. Or at least it was when I went through the process in 2002.
Your friend
Sorry I'm late for the party.
Kevin B. - African or European?
Alan - you know you misquoted the frenchman on the wall, but I don't blame you.
Wade,
You are a brave man. Or are you? People with honesty and integrity - who know what they believe and why - have littel to hide or fear in questions from others.
Here's mine:
If you could pick which issue to reverse right now, would you flip the baptism guideline, the PPL policy or the policy limiting dissent from the majority on the BOT?
Thanks.
Kiki,
God has been teaching me these past few months that I must depend completely on Him for everthing.
What do people think of me? That's in the Lord's hands.
What are the consequences of doing what I believe is right? That's in the Lord's hands.
He is also teaching me that there is far more in life than living my life wanting to be pleasing to others.
I really do want people to enjoy my company, and I go out of my way to express my love and appreciation for everyone I know, including those who disagree with me, but I have concluded that I must be myself at all times, and if people don't like what I stand for, what I believe, or how I live, and show me their displeasure, then I must simply determine, like the Apostle Paul, that my desire is to be pleasing to God, and not man.
Thanks for the question.
rzbk,
I wholeheartedly agree with your answer to anonymous' question.
I wish I could have been as articulate as you in my answer.
I look forward to meeting you one day Ron. You and I think a great deal alike, and I appreciate your integrity.
Patrickbarret,
It is hard for me to speculate on the new policies being overturned.
I have not polled my fellow trustees on this matter.
However, my friend and fellow trustee Charles Fowler from Union University has shared with me some interesting thoughts and responses that he has received from the trustees as they responded to an EXCELLENT letter that Charles sent all of us regarding the policies. It is not my place to reveal what Charles told me, but I am encouraging him to do so himself.
The committees looking into the new policies will be reporting back to our board with their recommendations soon.
As long as I am a trustee I will work toward reversing the policies. I will do so within every guideline and policy established by the Board. Further, I will abide by the new policies, even though I disagree with them, because every trustee is bound to abide by policy, even when he is in the minority position.
The only way the policies will be reversed is for the trustees to reverse them. Again, for me to speculate if and when that will happen would be fruitless.
It is obvious however that if a majority of the trustees felt as I and several others do, then they will be reversed.
Mr. Anonymous,
How do I define a "conservative" and has this definition changed?
Answer: A conservative is an evangelical believer in Christ who believes the Bible to be the Word of God (without error and able to be trusted), and holds to the fundamentals of the faith (the Virgin Birth, substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Christ, salvation by grace through faith, etc . . . ).
Has my definition changed? No.
The problem we have at this point in the SBC is that conservatives seem to be turning on conservatives for not believing the same thing about third tier doctrines, doctrines that are not the fundamentals of the faith.
DavidinFlorida,
We have a service on Saturday night, two on Sunday morning, one on Sunday night, and one on Wednesday night.
I believe the Holy Spirit is welcome in all our services. The style of worship in the Saturday night service is different than the others, but it is not more spiritual, or there is not more of the presence of the Spirit in that service than in the other ones. And frankly, the Spirit moves in the hearts of our people in all the services --- so, contrary to the thinking of some (and I'm sure, not you), the Spirit of God is not bound by style of worship.
Thanks for asking.
Wade,
If a Pastor uses 'completely' a sermon from another, without giving any indication that it was not his study, what should be the result? How would you approach this situation? Does it warrant dismissal?
Sorry for the three questions...
Les Puryear,
You ask for my definition of a "conservative" Baptist and a "moderate" Baptist.
A conservative Baptist is one who believes the Bible is the Word of God, without error, able to be trusted, and believes it sufficient for all questions of life and faith practice. A conservative Baptist refuses to place his creeds, traditions or confessions on the same level of the Word of God, and will fellowship with any believer who holds to the fundamentals of the faith, but gives plenty of room for interpretations of the Bible regarding third tier doctrines.
A moderate Baptist is one who holds to holds to the fundamentals of the faith, but has a hard time using the word "inerrant" to describe the Bible (I don't have a problem), not because he does not believe the Bible, but because the word says too much about the Bible.
The moderate Baptist would also say that Baptists who divide over "inerrancy" are missing the point. Christ Jesus and our fellowship with Him is the point of the Bible, and if are angry and meanspirited with each other, then we deny the very Bible we both say we believe. I am a conservative, but have no problem calling a moderate Baptist my brother in Christ. By the way, the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message left the word "inerrant" out, but affirmed the veracity and authority of Scripture, so that moderate Baptists and conservative Baptists could cooperate together (see the Peace Report).
A liberal Baptist denies the fundamentals of the faith, and by definition is not evangelical Christian.
Nomad,
I have requested to be placed on the Administrative standing committee and I am open as to which regional comittee I should be on. I was on Central Asia, but would enjoy a return there, or possibly Pacific Rim, or Central Europe.
Kevin,
How do I handle all the ugly criticism from all over the world?
Good question.
David's words to Abishai regarding Shemei are appropriate. When Shemei cursed the King, Abishai said, "Do you want me to go cut that dead dog's head off?"
David responded, "Leave him alone. God hath bidden him to speak."
Words of criticism are allowed by God. Sometimes they are not comfortable, but they all make me a better person.
How do we handle it?
Frankly, the thousands upon thousands of letters and emails that have been encouraging to us are very helpful.
To each who have written, thanks.
Mr. Anonymous,
I was referring to "career missionaries" being fully funded. I apologize for any confusion.
Wade,
Hang in there.
This is totally unrelated to denominational politics, but I've been wondering for some time now: How are you descended, either directly or indirectly, from Rufus Burleson - one of my Baptist heroes? And have you ever had a chance to see or tour the original Burleson family plantation in north Alabama, situated between Decatur and Hartselle?
Also still standing is the Burleson-Hinds-McEntire home, where Dr. Aaron A. Burleson (brother of Rufus, charter member of First Baptist Decatur) once lived, and where the Battle of Shiloh was planned.
Finally, there's the old Burleson School nearby; plus Mt. Pisgah (now Flint) Baptist, where most of the Burleson children were baptized, and which continues as an active church.
I would enjoy showing you all of these places someday, if you've never seen them.
In the meantime, hang in there.
Mark R.
Alabama
Mr. Wabbitt,
Change your picture and I would take you more seriously. :)
I think you are mistaken when you say Curtis Sergeant advocates women pastors.
He told me he does not.
Curtis Sergeant said in his paper that women should have the ability to baptize their converts and share the Lord's Supper in China because MEN WERE NOT PRESENT.
Some of the house churches in China were composed solely of women, and he advocated converts to Christ should not be forbidden from baptism because males were not present in the church. He also stated that the Lord's Supper should be abstained from because males were NOT present.
In other words, Curtis Sergeant was simply saying that Christians had the privilege of gathering in homes in China and partaking in the ordinances, even without an ordained Baptist, white, Southern, seminary educated, former pastor of First Baptist Church, Poteau, Oklahoma being present.
He would deny he was advocated female "pastors."
I would not be a member of a church where a female was the Senior Pastor, the BFM 2000 forbids women from "pastoring" and I have signed the document, but I would not break fellowship with my evangelical friends who disagree on this issue.
In other words, maybe this is a second or third tier doctrine that has been placed on the level of first tier by some.
By the way, I find this argument against "Women" pastors mighty strange in SBC circles when two of the most flamboyent theologians, Mrs. Criswell and Mrs. Patterson both teach theology to men in church, write theology books used by men, and act as pastors without the title.
Am I missing something?
Mr. David Eaton,
I am a Tiger man. I remember first reading of him in Sports Illustrated when he was fourteen years old. Have followed him closely ever since.
Todd,
You asked,
"Why is it that the SBC is the only large historic denomination that has not made room for a fellowship of "charismatic" churches under our tent (like the Methodists, Lutherans, even Presbyterians and Catholics have, for example)?"
That is a great question that I franklydo not yet have an answer. I could see validity in all of your possibilities you offer and would encourage people to visit your blog for the discussion.
Todd's blog for a possible discussion of the above question is located here.
dwm iii,
There is a Vice President on the IMB whose job is to get churches and missionaries to interact.
The best way for missionaries to be in front of the churches is for churches to go to the fields and help the missionaries. The IMB does some wonderful things to help make this happen.
Mr. Anonymous,
You asked,
If a Pastor uses 'completely' a sermon from another, without giving any indication that it was not his study, what should be the result? How would you approach this situation? Does it warrant dismissal?
Pastors use "completely" other sermons very often. I post all of my sermons on the internet and tell people they are free to use them "completely" without credit.
The problem comes when somebody "publishes" for profit the works of another as if they were his own.
That becomes a violation of copyright, and obviously, a violation of the law. This happens frequently as well, but with far more serious consequences.
How would I approach it? I would call the pastor and ask if he had permission to use the materials, and if did, did he give credit. Credit is often verbal, or sometimes written, and people should not assume the pastor has done anything wrong until you talk to him personally.
Jeff,
You asked . . .
"Briefly, if you can, comment on these questions...1)what is the simplest definition of "essential doctrine", 2)do you believe multiple generations of using a more Arminian or "less reformed" Gospel has weakened evangleism in the US, and 3)what can be done to identify, and rid our pulpits of pastors preaching obvious untruths of Christ (ie kenosis, etc.)which I would consider "essential"?"
(a). An essential doctrine is a doctrine, that if denied, would be a denial of the Christian faith.
(b). Arminianism preached on any occasion weakens the gospel. Aminianism preached repeatedly weakens a convention.
(c). If my church at Emmanuel were to be in a position to call a pastor, I promise you they would ask the essential doctrinal questions, and no pastor would ever be placed in the pulpit who taught heresy. The way you prevent false doctrine from the pulpits is to consistently teach the people truth --- they won't put up with false doctrine later.
Mike Woodward,
You ask questions about the times, dates and meeing places for the St. Louis Board meeting October 20 - November 1st.
I don't yet have that schedule.
When I receive it, I will post it for you.
wade
Mark R.
You say,
"This is totally unrelated to denominational politics, but I've been wondering for some time now: How are you descended, either directly or indirectly, from Rufus Burleson - one of my Baptist heroes? And have you ever had a chance to see or tour the original Burleson family plantation in north Alabama, situated between Decatur and Hartselle?
Also still standing is the Burleson-Hinds-McEntire home, where Dr. Aaron A. Burleson (brother of Rufus, charter member of First Baptist Decatur) once lived, and where the Battle of Shiloh was planned.
Finally, there's the old Burleson School nearby; plus Mt. Pisgah (now Flint) Baptist, where most of the Burleson children were baptized, and which continues as an active church.
I would enjoy showing you all of these places someday, if you've never seen them.
Rufus is a forefather. In the lineage he is a great(seven times) uncle.
I have never been to the places you describe, but next time I am in Alabama, I will contact you. I would love for you to show me.
Please email me with your contact information.
Who was on the grassy knoll, or did Lee Harvey Oswald act alone?
Will OU make it out of Oregon with a "W" (what your head says, not your heart)?
Is Art Rogers or Alan Cross French and has either ever guarded the wall of a castle? [Just a little more Monty Python humor, for those who might not know.]
Have your parents always been that nice?
tl,
You ask,
"In light of all the stuff (good and bad) which has happened since you first started this blog, what one thing would you do differently if you could?
I have been asked that dozens of times. I know that some will absolutely hate my answer to your question, but here goes.
Nothing. Nada. Zip.
That's why I have refused to apologize for anything (but the militant words used in the December post that started the whole controversy --- I rewrote the post using softer language).
If there is one thing I wish would have been different "BEFORE" I started this blog it would be this:
I wish I would have paid more attention to what was happening in the SBC from 1995-2005.
I wish I would have paid more attention to NAMB and the change in their policies (I didn't even know about it).
I wish I would have paid more attention to the Baptist World Alliance issues (I still don't know much about that one).
I wish I would have paid more attentiont to the continuing of the narrowing of the parameters of fellowship and cooperation.
When I became a trustee I paid attention.
Paul,
I do believe someone was on the grassy knoll (by the way, trivia on JFK's assassination is a hobby for me).
Oklahoma beats Oregon by three (in my head). Oklahoma beats them by 10 in my heart.
Paul, yes, my parents have always been that nice --- they enjoyed lunch with you.
Art,
You ask,
"If you could pick which issue to reverse right now, would you flip the baptism guideline, the PPL policy or the policy limiting dissent from the majority on the BOT?
That's like asking, "If you could choose one of your three children to die, which one would it be?"
Sorry, Art, I can't choose on that one --- all three go together.
Tim Sweatman,
You ask
"Did any of the trustees appointed to the ad hoc committees examining the baptism and prayer language policies oppose the policies when they were voted on last year?
That is a great question to which I do not know the answer.
Marty,
You ask,
Is Rachelle really taller than you? Is the Pope a Southern Baptist?
Who does your hair? A lady who cuts it in her garage for $10.00. Rachelle sent me to her guy for $50.00. Hello again lady. :)
Were you ever a weatherman? I am both a good forecaster and a great prognosticator. No weatherman.
How many different pairs of shoes do you own? Who's counting Mr. One Shirt.
Do you still preach from the old KJV, by that of course I mean the 1648 version still written in old English lettering? Because if you don't you're a stinkin' liberal!!!!!
Yes. I still preach from the KJV. A page from one of only a handful of original 1611 (not 1648 Martin) KJV pulpit Bibles hangs in my office.
Tell Sonya hello for me. She's a sweet lady having to put up with you :)
I have really enjoyed this and found we have much more unity than just a "unity mission."
We own 80 acres in Ardmore (where ever that is), perhaps I should tell Mackey it's time to move :)
Thanks Wade
Wade,
What is more important, orthodoxy or orthopraxy?
Is orthodoxy synonomous with conservative? If not, what are the differences?
Do you believe in priesthood of the believer or priesthood of the believers?
Is there a change in the SBC from priesthood of the believer to priesthood of the believers?
Gracias,
Mark
Did the airline ever find your luggage? Do you have to drive back to OKC to get it?
AlyceLee,
Any ponds on your property?
Any land you wish to sell?
I love that part of the state and am down there a ton because of Falls Creek.
Come visit us in Enid sometime!
Mark,
You ask,
What is more important, orthodoxy or orthopraxy? For the unitiated, orthodoxy comes from the Greek and means "to belief properly," while orthopraxy means "to behave properly."
The Apostle Paul always began with doctrine in his writings and then moved to duty. He always put beliefs first, then he discussed behavior. I am of the opinion that until a man believes right, he will never behave right. It's interesting to me that BOTH liberals and Fundamentalists (with a capital F) are mean as snakes. Maybe they both are unorthodox in their beliefs, and as a result, unorthopratic in their behavior.
Is orthodoxy synonomous with conservative? If not, what are the differences? I believe it is. When a person lets the Bible speak and trusts in the sufficiency of Scripture for life and faith, he is orthodox. When you ADD to it or TAKE away from it, you end up in trouble.
Do you believe in priesthood of the believer or priesthood of the believers? I believe in the priesthood of the believer. I understand what people mean by the priesthood of believers (wanting to keep in check errant thinking), but thank God Martin Luther believed in the former.
Is there a change in the SBC from priesthood of the believer to priesthood of the believers? Yes there is. In the Baptist Faith and Message 2000. This is why some conservatives were upset with the wording of the BFM 2000 on this issue, but still remained CONSERVATIVE.
Gracias,
Mark
I've never been there, we inherited this several years ago and Mackey has only visited it twice We do however, plan to visit your church one weekend, probably in Dec. Mackey takes the entire month off.
Perhaps we will check out Ardmore then too. Looking forward to a real meeting with you. At that time, we both can give you a high 5 ;) Til then, we blog on!
Alycelee
Tim Cook,
Arminianism is an exaltation of man and not God. I believe it a denial of the Scripture.
BUT, and this is a big BUT --- I believe an Arminian like John Wesley, Charles Finney, Billy Graham, etc . . . can not only be saved --- they are used by God to lead thousands of others to saving faith in Christ. In other words, Arminianism is not something I separate in fellowship over. I will serve with an Arminian, worship with an Arminian, fellowship with an Arminian, and love my fellow Arminians. I believe their theology is weak Biblically --- but it is not an issue of fellowship.
And by the way, when an Arminian prays, he is admitting the Sovereignty of God.
When an Arminian dies, he throws himself onto the mercy of a Sovereign God.
When an Arminian worships, he worships a Sovereign God.
In other words, an Arminian is one in the head, never in the heart.
:)
Dorcas,
The airlines found my luggage and drove it to my house an hour and a half away from Will Rogers.
However, they unceremoniously dumped it into our screened in porch.
What initial spiritual direction would you give to a brand new believer who has never stepped foot in a church and does not understand Christianculture(s) or the Bible, other than a very rudimentary understanding ofthe gospel message? For our purposes, let's assume the person was born andraised in the USA. I am especially interested in how you would help theperson distinguish between cultural preferences in church life and biblical principles so that the person may gain wisdom in discerning God'spurposes for his/her life without falling into despair over conflictingsignals from different influential cultural segments of the church.
Blessings, Glen Woods
Glenn,
Nothing takes the place of one on one discipleship. We match the new believer up with an older Christian and we usually suggest they work through Sproul's "Basic Bible Doctrine" or John Blanchard's little track "Ultimate Questions."
We do everything we can to avoid cultural prohibitions and let the Holy Spirit speak to the young believer in His timing regarding any personal convictions.
There are other things we do, but it varies from individual to individual. You ask a good question that we all should consider seriously.
Tim,
Thanks for your gracious spirit. If everyone were like you there would be no problems of fellowship in the SBC! See you in St. Louis.
OK Dokie folks.
Off to see my son play football.
Very proud of Boe. If you would like to read an article about him, I'm linking to one from our local newspaper this past Wednesday.
Will not be able to post until late tonight or early tomorrow morning.
Ask away your questions, but please be patient on the answers.
wade
Pastor Wade, If it were Gods will for you to be president of the SBC someday (hey, dont laugh see Phil 4:13, it could happen), what are the three main issues that you believe He would have you address or change?
Wade,
You have raised a fine son. You should be proud.
I go to a SBC in South Carolina. I work with our youth and I am on a committee that collects and distributes funds to individuals or groups going on international mission trips. We have upped the amount we give from 10% to 30% of the cost of the trip.
There are several people in my church that disagree with me on how students and others should be able to raise the remaining funds for their trip. I think we should have Wed night dinners, car washes, donut sales, etc to raise money but is has been forbidden in our church. You can have car washes, yard sales, etc off site as long as you do not use the church's name.
What is your opinion on this? What is the IMB's opinion on how short term volunteers raise their funds for their trips?
I understand that the individual should make some sort of financial sacrifice but I do not see what the harm is in a car wash or bake sale.
Thanks
Robby J.
Wade -
Is the SBC bureacracy too bloated? If yes, what could be done about it?
Wade,
Thanks for your words and graciousness in responding to all comments. Your Father is a Man of Vision and you have received a double portion as an Elisha. Keep it up. He was our pastor @ Southcliff while in Seminary.
We would be excited to have you come to the Northwest and speak at your convenience.
Ken Colson
State Music Consultant
Montana Southern Baptist Convention
kencolson@msn.com
DavidinFlorida,
You asked,
"Pastor Wade, If it were Gods will for you to be president of the SBC someday (hey, don't laugh see Phil 4:13, it could happen), what are the three main issues that you believe He would have you address or change?"
(1). A full cooperation and fellowship with all conservative Southern Baptists around the fundamentals of the faith, and a specific effort to identify second and third tier doctrines over which we will not divide in fellowship.
(2). A sharing of the trusteeships and other SBC appointments with many conservatives who have never served before.
(3). A focus on excellence in our missions programs, seminaries, and other SBC agencies by hiring the best Presidents possible and giving them freedom to implement their visions for their respective agencies and doing all we can to support them in that effort.
Sounds like this may already be happening.
:)
Robby J in South Carolina,
I do not believe the IMB has an official policy regarding the measures individual churches use to raise funds for short term mission trips.
As pastor of a SBC church, I agree with your approach. Anybody in our church going on missions can do absolutely anything within the bounds of morality, using our church's name, to raise funds for their trip (car wash, bake sales, etc . . .).
Wade,
Thank you for taking the time to do this!
1. Our church has partnered with an IMB family in East Asia that is working to reach 3 unreached people groups that are located in the mountains and are EXTREMELY hard to reach. The IMB said that they can not afford to purchase them a 4WD vehicle to travel to the villages at this time, and they dont think it will happen in the foreseeable future. When our church offered to purchase it for them ourselves, the IMB said that we cant do it. Do you see a problem with this? Why couldnt we do it?
2. Did you get to come to tuscaloosa a few years ago when OU played Bama? If so, how was your experience?
3. I noticed that you came to Gulf Shores a few weeks ago? What are your thoughts on the area and where do you usually stay? I do a lot of work down there in real estate development.
Thanks again!
Matt Latta
Jeremy "Mr. Seven Question" Roberts :)
Yes/No questions w/ some follow up if yes...
(1) Do you have aspirations to be President of the SBC? If so, when?
No.
(2) Do you have a plan set forth to line up a candidate to run for SBC President in 2007 besides Frank Page? If so, who?
No. I have somebody I would like to see run, but decline to mention his name at this time in order to protect his privacy.
(3) Are you and Ben Cole following a similar road as Patterson/Pressler did in the late 70's & early 80's by meeting with pastors and recruiting them to the SBC annual meeting(s)?
I am not intimately familiar with Patterson/Pressler's methods in the 70's and 80's so it would be hard for me to speak about the "similar road." I have been asked to speak in several venues. I have accepted a few, turned down some, and orchestrated none. Ben will have to speak for himself.
(4) Do you recommend to Frank Page who he should nominate for specific agency boards/posts?
Frank has his own ideas about appointments and has made them public. I have visited once a few weeks ago with Frank about a couple of conservative, gentle, Southern Baptists that he might want to appoint. He had already placed them on his sheet. Other than that one conversation mentioning two men, I have not spoken with him about the issue.
(5) When Frank Page has a press conference, do you ever coach him on what he should say? If so, what is an example of this?
Jeremy, frankly that question is insulting to Frank Page. He has received no coaching from me --- period. If you heard him say he desires to stop the narrowing of the parameters of cooperation within the SBC maybe it's because that idea resonates in more people than just me.
(6) While serving as an IMB BoT member, have you had a sip of alcohol not related to medicinal purposes? If so, what was it?
Jeremy, as you know, I teach my church that an abstinence conviction regarding alcohol is always wise. We also do not make that an issue of fellowship or a measurement of spirituality. We discipline people in our church for the sin of drunkenness.
I have made public my personal vow to abstain from alcohol as a trustee of the IMB because of the very public resolution passed at this past year's convention. I keep my vows.
(7) How many candidates do you foresee running for SBC President in 2007? Who do you think these candidates will be?
There SHOULD be only ONE candidate --- Frank Page.
I guarantee you there will be more than one.
Frank Page will win --- again.
People are misjudging what is happening in the SBC. This is not liberalism vs. conservatism. It is two different conservative views of the future of the SBC. I like Frank's view a great deal.
Thanks for the questions Jeremy.
Mr. Anonymous,
Is the SBC bureacracy too bloated? If yes, what could be done about it?
I think there are some ways that money could be saved.
To further comment would be a disservice to some who are looking into that area at the present time.
From my experience, everyone in the SBC, including those in executive positions, work hard to prevent waste, but all of us, even those of us who are pastors, should be open to suggestions.
I find that the executives of the SBC are very open.
Ken Colson,
All that is missing from Montana is the invitation :)!
I love your state. I snow boarded at Bridger Bowl with the National Senior Champion when I was there for the Franklin Graham Festival years ago.
Would love to come again.
Matt Latta
You asked:
"1. Our church has partnered with an IMB family in East Asia that is working to reach 3 unreached people groups that are located in the mountains and are EXTREMELY hard to reach. The IMB said that they can not afford to purchase them a 4WD vehicle to travel to the villages at this time, and they dont think it will happen in the foreseeable future. When our church offered to purchase it for them ourselves, the IMB said that we cant do it. Do you see a problem with this? Why couldnt we do it?"
You couldn't do this because the IMB does not want to create an unfair system within the organization. People would love to go to exotic locales to help missionaries and they could easily raise separate support for themselves. Others, particuarly in Security III zones might struggle finding outside support.
I see both sides, but I side with the IMB on this one.
2. Did you get to come to tuscaloosa a few years ago when OU played Bama? If so, how was your experience?
Didn't get to come, but would have loved to. Watched it on television and the fake punt OU ran was a classic.
3. I noticed that you came to Gulf Shores a few weeks ago? What are your thoughts on the area and where do you usually stay? I do a lot of work down there in real estate development.
Matt, we own a small, hurricane damaged condo (one week is what we own I should say).
We LOVE it there. If you come across a good deal so we could upgrade our digs let me know!!
I would also love to have dinner with you and your wife sometime when we were there.
Thanks again!
Okie Dokie,
Had a few minutes waiting for my wife to get ready for the game. We are now officially off to the game of the week! (Used bold print to find my place on this comment run).
Be back later tonight or early tomorrow.
Feel free to continue asking questions.
Wade,
1)What are some of your private devotional or daily quiet time disciplines/practices?
2) Brother Yun in "The Heavenly Man" says that persecution in the West usually occurs at the hands of other "Christians". What do you think of that?
IMB rep
Wade: Quite magnanimous of you to take on all cyberspacequeries this weekend. And would like this blog to know you can engage followup indefinitely at www.baptistlife.com/forums; a place Wade's Enid lunch friends Webb and Flick frequent.
Thanks to Baylor's Big Daddy Weave for tipping me to this opportunity
Wade, my first question is: When can we expect you to have a working conversational knowledge of Carl Kell's UTenn published book Exiled and reference your recent experience in the testimonies of the victims of the takeover of the SBC including Paul Simmons, Carolyn Crumpler, and James Dunn?
I have to confide, SamHill's intro is about as cogent and perceptive a take on my view of what is happening in some time;much more credible than Nancy Ammerman's gush in the current American Interest Mag.
Thanks for entertaining this.
Stephen Fox
Collinsville,Alabama
You're spending a lot of time at this, I'm sure, and being a good sport about it, and I don't want to put you on the spot, but, will we see Texas Baptists from uniquely aligned BGCT churches in proportionate numbers on Dr. Page's appointment lists?
Wade,
Thanks for answering all these questions because many of them have been things I had wondered your opinion on for some time. In light of your post about women pastors being a second or third tier criteria, do you believe the BFM 2000 should be revised to include only first tier criteria?
Thanks,
Marc
Have you read the booklet - My Search for Charismatic Reality - if so what is your opinion?
Wade,
Do you agree with the Baptist Faith and Message when it says baptism "is a prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper." Does your church only invite immersed believers to come to the Lord's Supper or do you believe in invited any Christian to partake?
Pastor Wade, Thanks for answering my questions. Here is another...Will you tell us about the day that you trusted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?
An M that is wondering
Wade,
Do you think limiting missionaries on the field to one form of church planting can hinder the Holy Spirit?
If yes, what can be done to free our missionaries on the field from RL that insists there is only one way to plant churches?
Is there a recording of how many "simple churches" die each year?
How long will we count the baptisms of traditional churches as IMB statistics when the IMB has not been working with those churches for years?
Do not take me wrong. I love the IMB and want to see CPMs in every region. My fear, misrepresenting the facts will quench the Holy Spirit. Do you think maybe putting more of an emphasis on obedience verses results would help us as mission agency?
Thanks for fielding these questions.
Wade,
Leadership from with-in or above? If you have a pastor(boss) who leads from above how should I respond as an employee of the church if it is creating a very bad work environment?
IMB Rep,
You ask,
1)What are some of your private devotional or daily quiet time disciplines/practices?
I read Spurgeon's Morning and Evening Devotional for my personal quiet time. I also have a reading schedule through the Bible in one year.
I make it a practice to read at least five books a week, and the evening prior to bed is the time I set aside for that kind of reading. My prayer time is more of a "praying without ceasing" (a continual awareness of the presence of God) with a particular time set aside for praying for my family and the members of my church.
2) Brother Yun in "The Heavenly Man" says that persecution in the West usually occurs at the hands of other "Christians". What do you think of that?
Interesting.
I should clarify that I am new to church work and not an ordained minister. However I am told I am "a vital member of the support staff."
Sembrador,
You ask
1. why does everybody wanna pick on you? -ok, so it's not everybody but many more than I think should. Guess you deserve some of it at least, but I have no idea why.
I don't feel picked on.
2. Do you think it is healthy for our sometimes heated discussions being public is healthy for SB, IMB or for that matter the church?
I think it is extremely healthy for the SBC and the IMB and our churches to discuss issues publicly. It gets more people involved and as Scripture says, "Iron sharpens iron." Some do get out of hand with their emotions, but tha tis only a few.
FoxofBama,
I am unfamiliar with the book you mention, but will see about obtaining it.
Lee,
You're spending a lot of time at this, I'm sure, and being a good sport about it, and I don't want to put you on the spot, but, will we see Texas Baptists from uniquely aligned BGCT churches in proportionate numbers on Dr. Page's appointment lists?
I don't know what you mean by proportionate numbers so I can't answer that, and I would never presume to speak on behalf of Dr. Page, but I expect that there will be conservative, gracious BGCT Baptists who are not aligned with the CBF, and good CP leaders in giving, who will be appointed by Dr. Page.
Marc,
You ask,
Thanks for answering all these questions because many of them have been things I had wondered your opinion on for some time. In light of your post about women pastors being a second or third tier criteria, do you believe the BFM 2000 should be revised to include only first tier criteria?
I have no interest at this time seeking to rewrite the Baptist Faith and Message 2000. I just want to prevent people who wish to rewrite it adding more second and third tier doctrines than those already there.
Anonymous,
You ask
Have you read the booklet - My Search for Charismatic Reality - if so what is your opinion?
Never heard of it.
Kay,
You ask,
Wade, this is such a nice interview with your son, Boe. http://www.enidnews.com/siteSearch/apstorysection/local_story_256002710.html You must be so proud! What advice would you give a couple raising a young son?
Love him.
Let him be who God created him to be.
Guide him.
And most of all, give any expectations you have of him to God.
You will never be disappointed if you do those things.
To Anonymous M,
Wade,
Do you think limiting missionaries on the field to one form of church planting can hinder the Holy Spirit?
I don't think anything hinders the Holy Spirit.
Is there a recording of how many "simple churches" die each year?
No
How long will we count the baptisms of traditional churches as IMB statistics when the IMB has not been working with those churches for years?
I think all of us need to be careful about integrity in numbers, particularly those of us who pastor in the US.
Do you think maybe putting more of an emphasis on obedience verses results would help us as mission agency?
Amen. Yes I do.
Ben Stratton,
Do you agree with the Baptist Faith and Message when it says baptism "is a prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper." Does your church only invite immersed believers to come to the Lord's Supper or do you believe in invited any Christian to partake?
I agree 100% with the BFM statement. We only receive into membership at our church those wh have been Biblically baptized (but we don't care who baptized them if it is a Scriptural baptism). We invite other members of other churches who are Christian and have been baptized to join us at the Lord's table.
Benji Ramsaur,
Did your grandfather (I think it was him) ever tell you what A.W. Pink was like in person? If so, could you share?
My grandfather did not. He died when I was only 9, and did not share with me any details about Pink.
Mr. Anonymous,
Leadership from with-in or above? If you have a pastor(boss) who leads from above how should I respond as an employee of the church if it is creating a very bad work environment?
I'm sorry but i don't understand the question.
Good Night One and All.
Questions on Saturday Will Be Answered on Saturday.
Wade,
Thank you for answering my questions earlier, but I would like to follow up with a couple questions:
Have you ever read Axioms of Religion by E.Y. Mullins?
The original edition was published in 1908. Mullins was the architect of the first BFM and was president of the convention 1921 to 1924.
Mullins argued that priesthood of the believer is one of the most important BAPTIST distinctives & a move away from priesthood of the believer would be a step toward a hierarchy.
Do you believe that this has occurred?
Thank you,
Mark
Wade-
From my observations, the morning before chapel, Dr. Page was escorted around the TBA and campus by Ben Cole and Dwight McKissic.
1) Did you intend to be apart of this grouping?
2) Do you think someone other than Paige Patterson should be the president of SWBTS?
3) Do you affirm BCole's approach on Marty's blog (comment section of yesterday's post) of airing Patterson's dirty laundry with the list of bad/unethical behaviors of Patterson's past? (the grill, casket, etc. etc.)
4) Have you ever had a meeting with others to discuss the removal, resignation, or forced resignation of Patterson from the presidency of SWBTS?
5) Do you think it is biblically sound to criticize publicly a brother in Christ who is not in open, unrepentant sin or spouting heresy?
thanks,
reluctantly anonymous, still on the fence
Wade wrote:
FoxofBama,
I am unfamiliar with the book you mention, but will see about obtaining it
Wade, I have a copy of Kell's book. If you'd like to read my copy, I'd be happy to drop it off at your office sometime next week. I also wrote a review of the book on my personal blog. Here's the link: Exiled...
Wade,
What do think would be an SBC-acceptable way for for a missionary wife (with no children in the home) to fulfill her role as part of a Strategy Coordinator couple?
Wade,
We SBC missionaries are to share the good news and then to establish churches, but many times we work with poeple who don't have the Bible in their heart language and many times they are illiterate in the national language. Why are we not in the business of Bible translation? Many times I get the answer that it is not our [IMB] focus and if you want to do that then I need to go to Wycliffe or New Tribes or some other Bible Translation mission organization. There are several papers and books that have done research and found that if we want to see a Church Planting movement last, then CP has to go hand in hand with Bible Translation. If you have only CP then it will only last a short while and if you only have Bible translation then you have a Bible that no one desires to read. Also if we setup churches on just Bible stories and then they are dependent on us to keep coming back to tell them more stories. I also get the answer that translation takes to long and we are in a hurry. (Don't know why, God is sovereignly {which appears 3 times in the ESV for anonymous Sept. 15, and hundreds of other times if you count definition and not just the word being used} bringing His elect to a saving knowledge and he is not slow as some count slowness desiring that we not perish but that we all come to repentence, yet we stand in front of people at FPO and snap our fingers telling them that with every snap someone flies into hell like it is our fault...sorry soapbox.) Does translation work take time? Yes, on average it takes 15 to 20 years. But our job, as I see it in the Bible, is to make not just believers but to make them matrue, full grown believers. They NEED the bible. So again my question is "Why aren't we as Southern Baptist doing Bible translation?" We have the people and the resources, both financial and physical. We could do so much.
Is there a chance that the IMB may return to a process that allows potential missionaries to write out any differences they have with the current Baptist Faith and Message, rather than refuse anyone who does not agree with every word? Treat it as a confession and not a creed? Many like myself have problems with minor points, but are as Southern Baptist as anyone.
Wade,
So nice but daring for you to put your neck on a ‘guillotine’. This would be political suicide for most politicians and maybe Patterson. Thanks a lot.
1. Have you read “Columns—Glimpses of a Seminary Under Assault” by Russell Dilday?
2. If so, what percentage would you estimate to be truthful?
3. Our ‘Volunteer Christian Builders’ helped construct a large SBC church in Enid, OK around 1988. Could it have been yours?
4. Are IMB trustees exempt from ‘obeying God rather than man’ if they obey IMB policy they believe to be wrong?
5. You say some conservatives were upset with the wording of the BFM 2000 on the issue of ‘priesthood of the believer’, but they still remain conservative. Since moderates rejected that wording, which one obeyed God the best?
6. Since the BFM says, “Confessions are only guides in interpretation, having no authority over the conscience”, how does the IMB obtain authority to fire missionaries over ‘confessions’ that are on the third tier doctrinal level?
7. What is the tier level of ‘once saved—always saved?’
8. If the Bible teaches, ‘Quench not the Holy Spirit’, how can you say that “Nothing can hinder the Holy Spirit”? Does man’s ‘rejection’ of the Holy Spirit hinder Him?
9. Should churches be given a warning they are not in compliance with the BFM’s “Each congregation operates under the Lordship of Christ through DEMOCRATIC processes” if they have a system where the congregation does not vote?
10. What do you think of blog debate teams discussing issues that divide the SBC, and let churches vote which team is right? (What I wrote ‘If I were president of the SBC’ on June 26.)
Rex Ray
Wade,
Of all funds going to the IMB what percentage would you say are from CBF aligned churches or dually aligned churches? If this percentage is unknown do you think it should be known?
Thanks,
Cathy
Why do you always think that your view alone is the right view? Has God spoken directly to you telling you this? If so what were His EXACT words?
Mark said,
Thank you for answering my questions earlier, but I would like to follow up with a couple questions:
Have you ever read Axioms of Religion by E.Y. Mullins?
The original edition was published in 1908. Mullins was the architect of the first BFM and was president of the convention 1921 to 1924.
Mullins argued that priesthood of the believer is one of the most important BAPTIST distinctives & a move away from priesthood of the believer would be a step toward a hierarchy.
Do you believe that this has occurred?
I have not yet read the book.
I am reserving judgment on whether or not this has actually occurred, but it sure seems there is not near as much freedom of conscience, freedom of principled dissent, and freedom to disagree as there used to be.
Brother Wade:
Shown below are the words of Dr. Frank Page, prior to his election as President of the Southern Baptist Convention:
"There is a serious disconnect between the leaders of our Southern Baptist Convention and the rank and file lay person and pastor. Some perceive that there is a well oiled machine, filled with power hungry politicians, running the show while the vast majority of loyal, supportive people are left without any voice and/or influence. While this observation may or may not be true, there is a serious perception of disconnect and distrust."
"Whatever reality is, perception is that there is an increasingly narrowed convention in regards to control and/or influence."
"I call on all those who are in positions of authority to recognize the need to involve a larger number of persons. Many of us are tired of seeing the same names on committees year after year. Many of us are losing patience with the perception that a few people control everything in the Southern Baptist Convention."
Question - In your opinion, by the time the San Antonio convention meeting rolls around, will anything be different? If so, how will it be different?
Mr. Anonymous Who Is Reluctantly on the Fence:
You said,
From my observations, the morning before chapel, Dr. Page was escorted around the TBA and campus by Ben Cole and Dwight McKissic.
1) Did you intend to be apart of this grouping?
Dr's McKissic and Page, and soon to be "Dr." Cole are all friends. I don't know what you mean by grouping, but I will never be ashamed to be around people who name the name of Christ and are gracious and kind. I find all three of these men to fit that description.
2) Do you think someone other than Paige Patterson should be the president of SWBTS?
No I don't.
3) Do you affirm BCole's approach on Marty's blog (comment section of yesterday's post) of airing Patterson's dirty laundry with the list of bad/unethical behaviors of Patterson's past? (the grill, casket, etc. etc.)
I have not yet read it.
4) Have you ever had a meeting with others to discuss the removal, resignation, or forced resignation of Patterson from the presidency of SWBTS?
Absolutely not. I have had an email exchange with Dr. Patterson where I asked him the exact same thing about his efforts to remove Dr. Rankin (using the EXACT language you use in the question --- strange?)
5) Do you think it is biblically sound to criticize publicly a brother in Christ who is not in open, unrepentant sin or spouting heresy?
No I don't. That's why I am bumfuzzled as to why what happened last January at the IMB happened.
Thanks David,
Anonymous,
You asked,
What do think would be an SBC-acceptable way for for a missionary wife (with no children in the home) to fulfill her role as part of a Strategy Coordinator couple?
I didn't realize there were any limitations on you.
Outinasia,
So again my question is "Why aren't we as Southern Baptist doing Bible translation?" We have the people and the resources, both financial and physical. We could do so much.
I will try to find out the answer to your question, because I am not sure of the answer.
Anonymous,
Is there a chance that the IMB may return to a process that allows potential missionaries to write out any differences they have with the current Baptist Faith and Message, rather than refuse anyone who does not agree with every word? Treat it as a confession and not a creed? Many like myself have problems with minor points, but are as Southern Baptist as anyone.
I have not met one person who sees or says the the BFM 2000 is a creed. Since it is confessional and not creedal, disagreement on minor points in the BFM (not the major doctrines of Christ, salvation, the Scriptures, etc . . .) does not make someone non-Southern Baptist. I'm not sure what the practice is about missionaries signing the BFM 2000 while writing down the minor disagreements before signing. I'll find out.
Missionary Meg,
Thanks for the comment.
Truth of Acts,
I have not read Dilday's book.
The church you built was Garland Road Baptist Church. I guess size is relative, but it is a small church here in Enid.
Obviously Rex, I believe I am accountable to God. I can't answer for others.
Number six is a great question. I am doing what I can to stop the continuing of the narrowing of the paramgeters of cooperation. We must not divide over third tier doctrines.
Once saved always saved is probably second tier. I do believe it is a Southern Baptist distinctive, but not necessarily a Christian distinctive.
I believe quenching and hindering are two different things. Since the Spirit grants the gift of faith, I find it hard to accept that man's rejection cannot be overcome by the power of the Spirit as He changes the will of man. "In the day of thy power O Lord, thy people shall be made willing."
I think each church has the right to establish their own government.
Your blog debate teams idea is hilarious. I would participate :)
Rex, you are now officially limited to asking one question at a time.
:) Thanks
Cathy,
You ask,
"Of all funds going to the IMB what percentage would you say are from CBF aligned churches or dually aligned churches? If this percentage is unknown do you think it should be known"
Respectfully, I'm not sure why it needs to be known. The CBF is another denominaton with its own mission force. I think we should pray for the CBF, be gracious to the CBF, and thank CBF churches for their gifts to the IMB, but how much is given is irrelevant since they cannot, and rightfully so, participate in leadership in the SBC
Mr. Anonymous,
"Why do you always think that your view alone is the right view? Has God spoken directly to you telling you this? If so what were His EXACT words?
A silly question unworthy of a response.
However, let me clarify for you. I do not always have to be right. I work well in a system where I am in the minority.
I just simply ask that my questions be answered. I don't even have to agree with the answers. I just need people in leadership to not suppress the questions or refuse to answer them.
When that happens all is well in Beulah Land. :)
There is a big discussion over "private prayer language." According to the dictionary, the word "private" means: not public, personal, and confidential." Wade, why not keep it a private matter rather than revealing in public that one has a private prayer language? If it is to be between a person and the Lord, why not keep it that way? What purpose does it serve to made it public?
Brother Wade:
You ask,
Shown below are the words of Dr. Frank Page, prior to his election as President of the Southern Baptist Convention:
"There is a serious disconnect between the leaders of our Southern Baptist Convention and the rank and file lay person and pastor. Some perceive that there is a well oiled machine, filled with power hungry politicians, running the show while the vast majority of loyal, supportive people are left without any voice and/or influence. While this observation may or may not be true, there is a serious perception of disconnect and distrust."
"Whatever reality is, perception is that there is an increasingly narrowed convention in regards to control and/or influence."
"I call on all those who are in positions of authority to recognize the need to involve a larger number of persons. Many of us are tired of seeing the same names on committees year after year. Many of us are losing patience with the perception that a few people control everything in the Southern Baptist Convention."
Question - In your opinion, by the time the San Antonio convention meeting rolls around, will anything be different? If so, how will it be different?
The appointments by Dr. Page will be different than the status quo. There will be conservatives who have never served serving.
The Resolutions Committee will not allow debate on third tier doctrines or issues. Some serious, discussion, possibly about integrity in ministry and church reporting, will be considered.
The spirit will be gracious.
I bet you have your laptop in front of you waiting on the OU/oregon game to come on! :-)
Here is a question to offer a little break...
Did Boe's team (O.B.A) win on Friday night? How did Boe play? Go ahead and brag, I belive every parent should brag publicly about their children!
Mr. Anonymous,
There is a big discussion over "private prayer language." According to the dictionary, the word "private" means: not public, personal, and confidential." Wade, why not keep it a private matter rather than revealing in public that one has a private prayer language? If it is to be between a person and the Lord, why not keep it that way? What purpose does it serve to made it public?
You have asked the Million Dollar Question. The only possible answers include.
(1). A belief that a PP language is either of the flesh, or worse, of the devil.
(2). A belief that a PP language will eventually become public and cause problems on the field, and current staff and administration were not dealing, and would not deal, with charismatic problems on the field (something that can be demonstrably proven to be a "false" allegation).
(3). An attack on a particular individual.
(4). We have too many missionaries applying, and in order to weed out the worst and get only the best, we need to exclude those with a PP language.
(5). If there are other reasons, I am open for someone to share them with me.
That's as honest of an answer as I can give.
That, by the way, is why, though I do not have a PP language, I was against the policy. I saw no appropriate rationale for it.
Clif,
Thanks for asking! OBA lost, but Boe played great!
Yep, computer in front of me waiting for OU Oregon
Wade -
Your answers to Jeremy Roberts' questions #2 and #7 seem to be contradictory.
Jeremy's question:
(2) Do you have a plan set forth to line up a candidate to run for SBC President in 2007 besides Frank Page? If so, who?
Your answer:
No. I have somebody I would like to see run, but decline to mention his name at this time in order to protect his privacy.
Jeremy's question:
(7) How many candidates do you foresee running for SBC President in 2007? Who do you think these candidates will be?
Your answer:
There SHOULD be only ONE candidate --- Frank Page.
I guarantee you there will be more than one.
Frank Page will win --- again.
My question:
Did you mean for #2 that there is someone that you want to run in 2008? Otherwise it seems you are saying that you have someone you wish would run against Page in 2007 but expect Page to win. Yet you said there should be only one candidate. Could you clear up my confusion? Thanks.
One short additional question. Do you know who the real person is behind the Harvey the Rabbit pseudonym? Not asking you to tell me, just asking if you know.
Wade,
Glen Woods here. I am an avid Oregon Ducks fan and my team is playing Oklahoma in Eugene today. Should games like this be a first tier, second tier or third tier priority upon which Christians choose to fellowship? Just kidding! :)You gotta admit, someone was going to attempt that joke "sooner" or later. Go Ducks!:) You may now commence groaning.
Blessings,
Glen Woods
Dear Wade (and friends),
After a break from the blogosphere, I'm back. I couldn't resist the opportunity to ask you any question. I'd like to take the questions in a different direction with two separate postings--the first one being about the war, and the second on the environment.
Wade, why do you think that Southern Baptist leaders are not more concerned with the high civilian death toll in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Lebanon?
There are many many aspects of the conduct of this war that are very troubling, for example: 1) the untruths that were used to manipulate the public into this war, 2) heavy bombing campaigns that rarely killed their intended targets (Osama or Saddam), but did kill many elderly, women, and children, 3) The use of banned weapons (white phosphorous, which is equivalent to napalm) as was seen in the Fallujah campaign, 4) the contracting out of many security operations to private mercenery companies, such as Blackwater, such that those mercenaries are often outside the chain of command and exempt from military justice. (Recently, video surfaced on the internet showing private security contractors shooting and killing Iraqi civilians for sport and laughing about it).
On top of those troubling acts, more than 100 detainees have died in U.S. custody, many of them due to physical abuse that was authorized at the highest level (Bush attorney general Gonzales has authored memos defending the interrogation techniques that were used; however, most of those techniques are defined as torture by modern standards).
It looks to me that in the conduct of this war, our leaders have taken our military in a direction that coerces them to abandon longstanding standards of decency. Adding to the injustice is that mid-level military personnel have been penalized and imprisoned for their actions, while the administration's officials that authorized those acts deny their responsibility and escape punishment.
There have been good men who have tried to call America's attention to these problems. One of these was Col. Ted Westhusing, a professor of military ethics at West Point, who was assigned to Iraq to observe the activities of private security firms (mercenaries) hired by the U.S. gov't. According to internet reports, Westhusing had uncovered significant wrongdoing and was about to release a report when he suddenly committed suicide. Westhusing was an upright man, and those who knew him welldoubt whether his death was a suicide.
Another was Captain Ian Fisback, an evangelical Christian, who wrote to Sen. John McCain to call attention to the Donald Rumsfeld's abandonment of the Geneva Conventions (Fishback's letter can easily be found by a google search). Fishback wrote:
"For 17 months, I tried to determine what specific standards governed the treatment of detainees by consulting my chain of command through battalion commander, multiple JAG lawyers, multiple Democrat and Republican Congressmen and their aides, the Ft. Bragg Inspector General's office, multiple government reports, the Secretary of the Army and multiple general officers, a professional interrogator at Guantanamo Bay, the deputy head of the department at West Point responsible for teaching Just War Theory and Law of Land Warfare, and numerous peers who I regard as honorable and intelligent men.
Instead of resolving my concerns, the approach for clarification process leaves me deeply troubled. Despite my efforts, I have been unable to get clear, consistent answers from my leadership about what constitutes lawful and humane treatment of detainees. I am certain that this confusion contributed to a wide range of abuses including death threats, beatings, broken bones, murder, exposure to elements, extreme forced physical exertion, hostage-taking, stripping, sleep deprivation and degrading treatment. I and troops under my command witnessed some of these abuses in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
This is a tragedy. I can remember, as a cadet at West Point, resolving to ensure that my men would never commit a dishonorable act; that I would protect them from that type of burden. It absolutely breaks my heart that I have failed some of them in this regard."
These issues are as real as they are troubling; they are not just some kind of propoganda. Wade, why aren't Southern Baptist leaders and ethicists more in touch with these issues and voicing some concern? Nothing that I have read on any Southern Baptist blog suggests that these issues are on anyone's radar.
Dorcas, Thanks.
I was reading 2008 instead of 2007 in the first question.
Glen,
That's funny.
Go OU!
wade
Wade,
Have you read Keith Eitel's White Papers? Do you think that there could have been any merit to his concerns?
Informed M
William Madden,
Frnkly, other than your post I have read nothing on this subject.
You have given us things to think about.
I have read both the white paper, Dr. Rankin's response, communicated directly with Dr. Sergeant, and spoken to dozens of people on this matter.
All I can say is this:
People sure do throw the word heretic around very easily. Shame on all of us. Curtis wrote about methodolgy, not theology.
Regarding theology, the report issued at the Spartanburg IMB meeting stated that the theology taught at the ILC is completely sound.
Wade,
I personally know that the theology at ILC is sound NOW. Do you know what it was like back in the mid to late nineties?
Informed M
Wade,
Do you believe that pragmatic methodologies that run counter to scripture are OK as long as the means justifies the end?
Informed M
Anonymous Missionaries,
You said,
I personally know that the theology at ILC is sound NOW. Do you know what it was like back in the mid to late nineties?
I do not believe the theology at the ILC has been unsound under Dr. Rankin's administration at any time.
Anonymous,
Do you believe that pragmatic methodologies that run counter to scripture are OK as long as the means justifies the end?
Nothing that runs counter to Scripture is OK. Period.
Enid Enigma,
Nice to meet you.
The smurf turns green :).
Exchange: 4) Have you ever had a meeting with others to discuss the removal, resignation, or forced resignation of Patterson from the presidency of SWBTS?
Absolutely not. I have had an email exchange with Dr. Patterson where I asked him the exact same thing about his efforts to remove Dr. Rankin (using the EXACT language you use in the question --- strange?)
Curious. We must think alike, which should confirm to you that I mean no ill will, and I am much closer than you realize to this movement.
5) Do you think it is biblically sound to criticize publicly a brother in Christ who is not in open, unrepentant sin or spouting heresy?
No I don't. That's why I am bumfuzzled as to why what happened last January at the IMB happened.
Then how do justify public criticism of the SWBTS administration?
Further, please read Ben Cole’s comment, #40 on SBC Outpost yesterday, about all of Dr. Patterson’s personal failures. Now, considering you and Ben are traveling the state together drumming up support, do you advocate this type of speech against a brother in Christ, no matter if those things may be true?
In light of James 4:11 like one commenter mentioned the other day, how do you justify ANY criticism of a brother publicly unless they are being rebuked for unrepentant sin?
On the (barbed-wire) fence
Barbed Wire Anonymous,
Any criticism on my blog is about issues, never people.
I will cry loudly when principled dissent is silenced.
I will not be silent when conservative Southern Baptists are excluded from participation from missions.
I will continue to seek to stop the narrowing of the parameters of cooperation.
It is not personal with me, and any criticism of any agency is on the basis of principle, not personality.
Do you think the religious leaders in the SBC would consider Jesus a "liberal" if he were to be walking the earth today?
Wade, what about the IMB BoT having former (retired or having honorably resigned) missionaries on the board?! I have heard that other mission agencies allow a certain percentage of their trustees to have actually had real live experience on the field.
And thanks for speaking for us when we sometimes can not!
cooperatin' conservative imb missionary
Kevin,
I do believe that many would consider Jesus a liberal were he alive to day.
Anonymous,
We do have about five or six former IMB missionaries on the Board. They contribute a great deal.
Wade,
What seminary do you recommend when people ask where they should go?
How do you feel about Southern Baptists attending non-SBC, evangelical seminaries?
Thanks,
James
James,
I think it's fine for SB to attend evangelical seminaries other than SB ones.
I recommend to my members Southern or Golden Gate
As a pastor I am curious as to why you feel compelled to post blogs each day? It is an interesting phenomenon and I don't really understand it. Personally, I have never felt that the world was waiting to hear what I thought about each and every notion that pops into my mind.
This is really not intended as personal toward you...because many do it. I just don't get it.
Anonymous Pastor,
No need for you to blog then is there?
Wade,
BTW, it's halftime of the OU-Oregon game and I am hoping Adrian turns it on in the second half.
On the question side, what are some of your favorite Bible passages?
Romans and Genesis my two favorite books.
Philippians 3 my favorite chapter.
Thanks for your response to my question, Wade. I take from the cold-shoulder and outright dismissal of my question that I am not even welcomed among the dissenters. So, I will just shoot the finger and walk away. In case you are wondering which finger... God willing, it will become obvious as He increases my tribe...
Dear Wade,
After my lengthy posting, not a single additional posted comment about the conduct of the war.
Compared to the suffering and death in war-torn areas and the daily diet of lies served to the public to maintain support for a misguided war based on failed and immoral policies, the concerns that have dominated the blogs recently--to drink or not to drink, private prayer languages, speaking in tongues, and Southern Baptist politics in general seem like little more than adolescent navel-gazing.
One should not need a private prayer language to hear the Holy Spirit saying that anything based on so many lies and leading to so much violence and loss of innocent life cannot be pleasing to the Lord.
But I've been told by elderly Southern Baptist pastor friends who served during the civil rights era about how they were persecuted by their members of their own congregations and, in some cases, lost their churches for taking a stand on equal rights for blacks.
The struggle for civil rights in the U.S. was the great moral struggle of their generation, and many Southern Baptist stood on the sidelines then, but what of our generation?
In the 1960's, some people were not concerned about the sufferings of blacks because they viewed them as an inferior people with an inferior culture.
Wade, do you think the reason more Southern Baptists are not concerned about the loss of innocent Muslim lives is rooted in a similar prejudice (i.e. since Baptists view Muslims as being in theological error, they (Baptists) may also believe (on a conscious or unconscious level) that Muslims deserve to die?
It is interesting to me that an evangelical Christian can go to a viewing of THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST, watch Jesus being beaten and tortured, and come out of the theater weeping, but then not bat an eye at the thought of an actual person (albeit a Muslim man) receiving the same treatment in a U.S. controlled prison halfway around the world.
From reading blogs that detail the current administration's policies approving torture, you can read about how the administration is quietly but strongly lobbying the Congress to overturn U.S. laws that made it a war-crime if detainees died due to physical abuse. (Those laws were originally passed to protect U.S. soldiers and make it possible for U.S. officials to prosecute foreign leaders who tortured and killed U.S. soldiers, but there is nothing in the laws that says that the laws don't apply to U.S. officials).
The current administration has never approved of a world court because they didn't want to submit to international jurisdiction on issues such as war crimes; i.e. they didn't want U.S. soldiers to be able to be tried by foreign leaders for war crimes. Now it is becoming apparent to the administration that they could (at least hypothetically) be tried for war crimes--because so many detainees have died in U.S. custody--under U.S. laws that are already on the books, so naturally, the current administration is pressing the Congress to change those laws before that can happen.
It would be unfair to only ask you the question, Wade, so I ask it to all the bloggers. Do those laws need to be changed? Is it better to have a double-standard of fair treatment and decency--one for Americans and another for everyone else, one for Christians and another for Muslims?
Wade and fellow bloggers, I know that my postings are sometimes long, and I apologize for that. I've been reading on this subject for several months, and it has been on my mind and troubling me. I love our country, and support it's right to defend itself. However, I become concerned when any person, high or low, begins to act as if he or she is above the law. And when that happens, I don't think the solution is just to change the laws to suit the situation. That sounds like the "situational ethics" of which most conservatives, I believe, take a dim view.
William,
Letting your comment stand, however, I would recommend you post on your own blog your thoughts and allow people to comment there.
We have determined that this post is a Q and A and will not be about one particular issue.
Pastor Wade, Maybe we all could understand william maddens post better if he could tell us what exactly all those lies were that lead to this war he talks about. Also what do you think he means when he says failed and immoral policies?
Don't know.
I believe in free speech.
Ask him ---
On his blog.
Benji,
John Gill, Charles Spurgeon, R.C. Sproul, A.W. Pink, John Piper are my favorite theologians and preachers.
Pastor Wade, sorry that I bit on that last one. I should have left it alone. Bad me.....!!!!!.....
Pastor Wade, It looks like OU should win today, I always pull for the BIG 12....Question: How many points do you think TEXAS will beat OU by this year?
Pastor Wade, Whoops , I did not know that the refs were Oregon fans. What a combo of bad calls.
Clarification on "Restrictions on Female Strategy Coordinators".
There are definitely some subtle restrictions, most having to do with supervision of male team members.
I have also discovered that pastors from the U.S. are not crazy about discussing strategy issues--or much of anything else "important"--with me.
Wade,
Good evening. The sun came up on my side of the world. I'd like to respond to your response.
I said:
I personally know that the theology at ILC is sound NOW. Do you know what it was like back in the mid to late nineties?
You said:
I do not believe the theology at the ILC has been unsound under Dr. Rankin's administration at any time
Sir, with the utmost respect towards you, Dr. Rankin, Dr. Patterson and Keith Eitel you are mistaken in your assessment of the past situation at MLC. There is truth in everyone of Keith Eitel's concerns outlined in the White Paper.
Now, do I think Dr. Rankin knowingly allowed unsound theology to be taught on his clock? No.
The IMB is a monster of an institution and there is no way that Dr. Rankin can control the thoughts and opinions of 5,000 employees. However, he is responsible for what takes place on his watch.
The good news is that Dr. Rankin has addressed many of the issues that Eitel and Patterson have raised over the years.
The reason for bringing this up on your blog is because several days ago you, along with a colleague from my region (Rzbk), broadly swept the issues of the MLC theology concerns under the rug. My colleague even went so far as to demand that Dr. Eitel and Dr. Patterson be held accountable for the inaccuracies of their charges.
There are no inaccuracies. The concerns were valid at the time, but since then have been addressed.
Respectfully,
Informed M
Informed M,
Nothing wrong with disagreeing is there?
Thanks for your opinion.
Wade,
I've been following your blog from the beginning. Why? Because you and I agree on more than you realize.
However, there is merit to Keith Eitel's White Paper.
Was there some ulterior motives and politicing in play when the paper was released in 2003? You bet. But please don't throw the concerns out the window with the dirty bath water.
Informed M
Would you be in favor of relocating the IMB to another city, perhaps more centrally located?
Thanks for the chance to ask questions this weekend. You're #1 in our books.
Anonymous,
You ask,
Would you be in favor of relocating the IMB to another city, perhaps more centrally located?
I like a more central location just because Richmond is difficult to reach by plane.
However, I think a cost analysis would need to be done, and with the ILC property, I think it might be very, very difficult to duplicate what we already have somewhere else.
So . . .
In my humble opinion the IMB in Richmond is here to stay.
Dorcas asked about frequent flyer miles and the trustees, my question is: Why does RLT,use their frequent miles on themselves and their family? This I know for a fact. I believe that first all their travel is paid by the IMB, Second, they travel more than any other missionary and last they use the miles on themselves for personal trips instead of helping out the budget and giving those miles to their budget in the region they can go back to the US at board expense and for personal use. This is a know fact! I do not believe it is good stewardship.
Wade,
In response to a question about the convention in San Antonio, you said, "The Resolutions Committee will not allow debate on third tier doctrines or issues."
When I asked you a question about who should determine which tier doctrines should fall, you indicated that was a good question and had not been decided.
How, then might the Resolution Committee make the determiniation of third tier doctrines if we haven't addressed any tier as of yet?
Are there plans to allocate doctrine to tiers before the San Antonio convention? If so, who gets to make those decisions?
Regards,
Les
Did you read the "Sword of the Lord" when you were starting out, and what kind of influece (good and/or bad) do you think it has had on Fundamentalism?
Les,
You say,
Wade,
In response to a question about the convention in San Antonio, you said, "The Resolutions Committee will not allow debate on third tier doctrines or issues."
When I asked you a question about who should determine which tier doctrines should fall, you indicated that was a good question and had not been decided.
How, then might the Resolution Committee make the determiniation of third tier doctrines if we haven't addressed any tier as of yet?
Are there plans to allocate doctrine to tiers before the San Antonio convention? If so, who gets to make those decisions?
There is a possibility that there will be an attempt to identify those issues over which SB should not divide prior to San Antonio. I think that the President of the Convention might possible appoint a blue ribbon panel of theologians and SBC leaders to help determine the tiers of doctrine.
I do know that he has been asked, by someone other than me, to do this.
Stephen,
I did not read the Sword of the Lord growing up. I read Spurgeon's "The Sword and the Trowel."
I wouldn't know how much influence the Sword of the Lord has had upon the SBC --- but I would imagine that it has had some.
Informed M,
I've read the documents. We may just agree to disagree on this one.
wade, how many hours a week do you spend blogging in a week and how does your church feel about your time spent online?
Wade,
Just wondering if you see (or would like to see)the SBC ever rejoining the BWA and if so, what, if any, changes would need to be made by either party?
Blessings,
Dave
(and thanks for the Q and A session)
Wade,
I see that besides questions, you allow ‘preaching’ on this post, so I will join in with a question later.
You wrote: “A conservative Baptist is one who believes the Bible is the Word of God, without error, able to be trusted, and believes it sufficient for all questions of life and faith practice. A conservative Baptist refuses to place his creeds, traditions or confessions on the same level of the Word of God, and will fellowship with any believer who holds to the fundamentals of the faith, but gives plenty of room for interpretations of the Bible regarding third tier doctrines.”
In my opinion, you have described a ‘moderate Baptist.’ There is nothing in what you wrote that they disagree with. So with your definition of ‘conservative Baptist’ you have identified ‘moderate Baptist’ also. You write:
“A moderate Baptist is one who holds to the fundamentals of the faith, but has a hard time using the word "inerrant" to describe the Bible (I don't have a problem), not because he does not believe the Bible, but because the word says too much about the Bible.”
This is the first time I’ve heard that ‘moderate Baptist’ complain about any word saying too much about the Bible. You write:
“The moderate Baptist would also say that Baptists who divide over "inerrancy" are missing the point. Christ Jesus and our fellowship with Him is the point of the Bible, and if are angry and mean-spirited with each other, then we deny the very Bible we both say we believe. I am a conservative, but have no problem calling a moderate Baptist my brother in Christ. By the way, the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message left the word "inerrant" out, but affirmed the veracity and authority of Scripture, so that moderate Baptists and conservative Baptists could cooperate together (see the Peace Report).”
Now you add more to the definition of ‘conservative Baptist’ by telling that Moderates complain how they are treated. Paraphrased: Conservatives divide over “inerrancy” and are angry and mean-spirited with moderates by excluding Moderates from being missionaries, seminary teachers, or any positions Conservatives control.
My one question is: Since “inerrancy” has been used to divide Baptists, what is so important about “inerrancy” that Conservatives don’t erase the word out of Baptist vocabulary?
Rex Ray
Wade,
did you have ANY clue how many questions you'd be drilled with in a 24 hour period when you came up with this idea? when are you planning another "drill wade with 212 posts in 24 hours"? this is great fun!
Basically my pastor dictates to us what we should do. I would fall out of my chair if he came into my office sat down and asked how I was doing with out handing out an assignment. My question is this should I be concerned about his leadership if it is not affecting our church in a positive manner? Should I bring his leadership style to his attention and the detriment that it has on our staff and our church?
If the hokey pokey IS what it's all about, funerals are going to get really really interesting.
They'll put your left foot in, and then the fun will begin.....
I can hardly wait!
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