tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post116904898039822715..comments2024-03-10T03:46:08.735-05:00Comments on <center>Istoria Ministries Article Archive</center>: Sheri Klouda: Gender Discrimination, Federal Law and the Law of Christ in the SBC and SWBTSWade Burlesonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01968442835088008681noreply@blogger.comBlogger380125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-87022793875868033032018-05-31T10:49:30.301-05:002018-05-31T10:49:30.301-05:00I'm late to this discussion (I think), but, I ...I'm late to this discussion (I think), but, I wanted to agree with you here. I would only add that even with my agreement, if the Seminary hired those last(which they did), and if Paige promised not to seek to make her gender an issue (which it appears he did), and this lady made significant investments in the community effecting her family (which seems pretty obvious), then this is, in my mind, more of an issue of being people of high moral integrity and keeping one's word. If assurances were made, then those assurances should be kept, or the Seminary should bear some responsibility for the predicament the Klouda family is in.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09417398210948007002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-52956858156580446332018-05-31T10:34:41.475-05:002018-05-31T10:34:41.475-05:00Wade, I took Hebrew 3 from Dr. Klouda right before...Wade, I took Hebrew 3 from Dr. Klouda right before she was fired. I, and many other students in that class were given a failing grade because Dr. Klouda refused to give us a grading rubric for our final 25 page Hebrew exegesis paper. She refused to give us an example paper, to discuss the basic requirements in class, or to answer basic questions about the paper. She told us to “do your best, and we can work it out later if we need to.” Because of her refusal to provide us with instructions and a grading rubric multiple students were forced to rewrite their papers after the semester was over. I was one staff at a church and had a busy schedule. After two failed meetings (one on her part, and one on mine) to discuss my paper (because she refused to provide written comments to me via email) I arrived to a third meeting with her only to be informed that 1) I would not be allowed to revise the paper, 2) she would not grade the paper “as-is,” 3) instead, she would give me a 0 for my completed 25 page paper and I would fail the class. I was not the only student to suffer this fate. This was by far the worst experience in my academic career. To be given no guidance ahead of time, only to be penalized for her refusal to provide a grading rubric with a failing grade was utterly humiliating.<br /><br />Dr. Klouda’s personal life also interfered with her class time (she was late to class and/or cancelled one class because of it) and she spend valuable class time discussing her relationship with her husband, who was a truck driver. She spent more time discussing her marriage than the grading rubric for our assignments. When I asked the administration if I could file a complaint and ask for a review of her decision to fail me, I was told that I could not because the administration was in the process of reviewing her position at the school; i.e., firing her.<br /><br />Dr. Klouda was by far the worst professor I had during my time at SWBTS, indeed during my entire time in school. My opinion of her as a professor has nothing to do with her gender, but is entirely due to her failures in the classroom. However, I firmly believe that the administration and Patterson fired her because she was a woman. But, aside from their awful rationale she was a bad professor. Because of her failures in the classroom she deserved at the least to be reprimanded and reviewed, and at the least fired.Aaron Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14493630613537243959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-74562380332353023032010-07-25T07:38:35.805-05:002010-07-25T07:38:35.805-05:00Very interesting and well spoken closing argument....Very interesting and well spoken closing argument.Oklahoma Lawyerhttp://www.wirthlawoffice.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-87384863716373084452010-05-13T22:01:46.647-05:002010-05-13T22:01:46.647-05:00Great article! It is refreshing to find a man will...Great article! It is refreshing to find a man willing to stand up for woman's rights. I included you in my Hall of Praise. Here is the link:<br /><a href="http://godandbutterfly.net/?p=666" rel="nofollow">Thank you, Wade Burleson</a>Rosehttp://godandbutterfly.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-14350700111828115012010-05-09T14:44:39.840-05:002010-05-09T14:44:39.840-05:00This makes me quite sad. I am certain that God is ...This makes me quite sad. I am certain that God is not pleased by this. Paige Patterson says that there is no greater calling than motherhood? Then what happens when we marry a man that cannot have children? Is our calling somehow less? <br /><br />Frustrated w/SBC & Sad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-84401062356542885192008-09-12T11:09:00.000-05:002008-09-12T11:09:00.000-05:00Is Paige Patterson an example of what Southern Bap...Is Paige Patterson an example of what Southern Baptist people consider to be a just and righteous person?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-52591804952560252162008-09-12T11:03:00.000-05:002008-09-12T11:03:00.000-05:00What is Dr Klouda's situation now? Was she ever c...What is Dr Klouda's situation now? Was she ever compensated by the Christian community for what she and her family were forced to endure?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-2643537739259491302008-07-08T18:20:00.000-05:002008-07-08T18:20:00.000-05:00I remember the incident concerning Dr. Sheri Kloud...I remember the incident concerning Dr. Sheri Klouda at Southwestern. I believe that Southwestern has misinterpreted 1 Timothy 2:11-15. In the passage, the aposlte Paul is discussing the issue of leadership in the Church, not the seminary which is not the church, but a para-church organization. While it is true in the church men are to lead the worship, the passage is not discussing the Seminary. The bible can be intepreted in any age or culture, it is unfortunate when scholars do not understand basic principles of hermeneutics and exegesis. When properly done, there is no way someone can come up with the interpretation that women cannot serve on the faculty at the Seminary. <BR/><BR/>The problem of the lawsuit is an acute one in the courts. Religious cases usually are favored in the courts towards the religious institutions in past and recent judgments. The courts are not enthusiastic too get involved with religious matters and I think rightly so in most cases. If Southwestern wants to solve the problem, they should offer Ms. Klouda an apology to her and her family for all the pain they put through as a christian. The second solution is that they should pay her a financial settlement for wrong termination and discrimination, which clearly happened in this case. This would resolve the problem and peace can be created between two christians, Ms. Klouda and Southwestern. Other seminaries have it correct at such places as Dallas Seminary where Dr. Dorian Coover-Cox is a professor of Hebrew. This does not violate Paul's command in 1 Timothy of men teaching women. I met Dr. Klouda at a ETS conference where she was presenting a paper and highly respect her scholarship in Evangelicalism. I do pray for her and hope a solution can be found in the matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-6906273934663260742008-06-10T04:21:00.000-05:002008-06-10T04:21:00.000-05:00Hi Bryan Riley In response to your "Are you really...Hi Bryan Riley In response to your <BR/>"Are you really thinking that God's character is such that no woman anywhere may ever teach any man anywhere or anything? And, how does that comport with so many other texts in scripture?? This has been debated extensively throughout the centuries and has not been only questioned in recent history. It also has been debated extensively on the blogosphere, and I have found a great many devout men and women who have a wide variety of interpretations of these and other passages regarding the role of women in the ministry and in the world." <BR/>I am such a blogger over in England and looking into what Reform are trying to do to our churches and theological colleges based on their reading of 1 Timothy 2 11-15. You can find me here: <BR/>http://hrht-revisingreform.blogspot.comRev R Marszalekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831340057673771787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-11966342985357757142008-03-22T21:44:00.000-05:002008-03-22T21:44:00.000-05:00If anyone has Dr. Klouda's contact information, pl...If anyone has Dr. Klouda's contact information, please pass this on: I would encourage her to apply at Sterling College in Sterling, KS. We are a Christian College in Sterling, KS, and we're looking for an Old Testament professor.<BR/><BR/>http://www.sterling.eduAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-13709776188855966592008-03-22T09:04:00.000-05:002008-03-22T09:04:00.000-05:00It's a shame. In my Systematic II class, I was on...It's a shame. In my Systematic II class, I was on a team in 2006 that had to defend the position of "women could not be pastors in the Southern Baptist Church" against another team defending the opposite position. In our research for our defense, we researched the issue of expecting it would be the source of a question from the other team. One of our resources to support our answer <B>was from a video tape of a sermon preached by Paige Patterson in chapel at SWBTS sometime after he was hired and sometime before fall of 2006</B>. He <B>defended</B> the very issue of women teachers at Seminary and taught that the reason that SWBTS had female professors was that SWBTS was not a church and the passage in 1 Timothy talked about teaching in "church", not a Seminary. <B>That was Paige's public interpretation of the Scriptures to chapel that day.</B> It's kind of dramatic turnaround in theology to teach something one month and claim the contrary is true the next. Unfortunately, I guess it might be a possibility to be allowed to serve at SWBTS and misrepresent your beliefs and what you think the Scriptures are saying because it's suits you in front of folks. I do know how God feels on that subject. Proverbs 12:22 <BR/><BR/>Upon hearing this, I wouldn't be surprised if that VHS tape is no longer in existence at the time of this writing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-30440022387871177272008-02-22T00:42:00.000-06:002008-02-22T00:42:00.000-06:00This denomination is scarily oppressive. You're bo...This denomination is scarily oppressive. You're both missing the boat and not walking on water.<BR/><BR/>It's getting late; work this out in love for G-d's sake.<BR/><BR/><BR/>-some Jewish kid, observing youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-23648225410998792972007-11-10T16:22:00.000-06:002007-11-10T16:22:00.000-06:00Sadly I feel that the conservative movement in the...Sadly I feel that the conservative movement in the SBC has taken a wrong turn somewhere. As Cal Thomas has stated it must start from the bottom-up. When one looks at the passage on a woman not having authority or to mentor a man (which is this meaning here of "to teach"), this is the priority of discipleship of men in formative stages. It is documented that boys in their teen years need to have a male role model and mentor in order to learn formative tasks. This is the same manner in which Paul is speaking lest he would be contradicting himself in other passages. Klouda was not serving in any capacity in mentoring the students not should she be. Hers was in teaching out of her expertise and knowledge of the Hebrew language.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-22638077923416688722007-09-19T08:15:00.000-05:002007-09-19T08:15:00.000-05:00Now that this sad case is back in the news, I thou...Now that this sad case is back in the news, I thought I'd put my two cents in.<BR/><BR/>1: I don't know if a woman teaching men Hebrew falls under the Biblical proscription or not, but I do know a seminary president is invested by the trustees to make decisions in these matters.<BR/><BR/>2: Dr. Patterson, having inherited a situation he felt required fixing, has mishandled the whole thing terribly. The right thing to do is compensate the lady for the wrong done to her by the institution. Regardless of which president one agrees with, Southwestern <B><I>did</B></I>. promise her a job which she performed more than adequately and then withdrew the promise and the job. <BR/><BR/>When an honest businessman finds he cannot live up to the contract of his word, whether sealed by signatures or a hand shake, he will make compensation to the other party. Can a Southern Baptist seminary do any less?<BR/><BR/>Southwestern needs to put this dreary matter behind it by offering just compensation, make that generous compensation, and stop dragging the faith through the courts.<BR/><BR/>Jack Winter<BR/>Clearwater, FLJohn Winterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07945683554994289527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-56429071514163593812007-06-18T21:35:00.000-05:002007-06-18T21:35:00.000-05:00Quote from comments: "Women are not to teach or ha...Quote from comments: "Women are not to teach or have authority over men within the realm of the Christian church in matters pertaining to theology."<BR/><BR/>Could someone PLEASE tell me what this 'authority' is? What EXACTLY does having this 'authority' mean?<BR/><BR/>(Please define this OUTSIDE of of a marriage relationship)<BR/><BR/>Be specific<BR/><BR/>Thank you.anyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05343646311912027638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-80747435387250922242007-06-13T04:51:00.000-05:002007-06-13T04:51:00.000-05:00I agree with you completely. As a SWBTS PhD studen...I agree with you completely. As a SWBTS PhD student, I believe the mishandling of this situation causes the school and our convention to see its light dim. It dims not because of its stand on doctrines; it dims because it enforces the doctrines badly.<BR/><BR/>I do not agree with Dr. Patterson's reading of 1 Tim 2:12. Also, I cannot see an institution which is accredited by secular organizations, is designed as an educational facility, and does not actively practice many of the standard religious practices found in Southern Baptist churches as a church or para-church. It is an institution of higher learning founded by a denomination and private donations.<BR/><BR/>There are certain questions that come to my mind:<BR/><BR/>1. Does it matter if someone is in the school of education, theology, music, or evangelism?<BR/><BR/>My response is that it does not matter unless you want to play legalistic semantical games. No matter what school you are in, as a professor, you are teaching others how to apply Scripture correctly. If you really think about it, this requires, by definition, the professor teaches some level of theology. Theology is found in music (Are the lyrics scriptural? Does the worship service glorify God?); theology is found in the education school (How did Jesus teach? What methods did Paul use to teach others?); theology is found in the evangelism school (What is the gospel? How did Jesus share it?); theology is, naturally, found in the theology school (How do you preach the Old Testament? What is the Biblical theology of Christ?). Therefore, if women cannot teach theology, then they are disqualified from teaching in any part of the seminary.<BR/><BR/>2. If SWBTS is an SBC church, why don't we offer evangelistic invitations after every chapel? Why don't we offer the Lord's Supper? Why don't we offer Sunday services for those in the community?<BR/><BR/>The answer is because there are 'churches' out there who are called to do these things. That means that that SWBTS is not a church, or else it is failing to do what it is called to do.<BR/><BR/>3. How would the school respond to other texts dealing with opulence (see the new 'chapel' that's being promoted)?<BR/><BR/>Jesus talked about storing up treasures in heaven. Therefore, the school is wanting to built a $16 million (or more) chapel that is the state of the art facility. It will house treasures of renowned pastors' libraries, ornate features, etc. All the while, the evangelism school is not getting the attention or professors I believe it deserves. The Spring Evangelism Practicum is needing more funds on a regular basis (traveling costs go up all the time). If the school is to be known for evangelism (which the President says it should be), then why focus on a glamorous chapel and not evangelism?<BR/><BR/>There are others, but I don't want this comment to go much longer than it is so far.<BR/><BR/>My point is this: while some at SWBTS may consider me a 'liberal' because I have no problem with Klouda teaching Hebrew and Hebrew exegesis, I say that this discussion is needed in the SBC. I believe Klouda's firing should serve as a catalyst to spawn greater debate. The debate should not be simply a recitation of dogma (as I've seen some of in the comments here), but a careful consideration of the various viewpoints.John L. Rothrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04019027318073795824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-74239084746266954722007-06-04T22:16:00.000-05:002007-06-04T22:16:00.000-05:00I know Paige well enough to know that his decision...I know Paige well enough to know that his decision had little or nothing to do with his view of the Bible. By this, I don't mean he doesn't love the Lord, or he doesn't try to be as Biblical (in his mind) as possible. What I mean is that sometimes he lives in the past ... sees friends and people as "liberal enemies" on the battlefield when they are just as conservative as him trying to accomplish the same goals. Somewhere in his mind he was convicnced that Sheri was a threat to something, and because of his power, had her removed. Believe me, I have seen it before from him. He just doesn't realize that he's won ... the convention is conservative ... people like Sheri, Wade, me, are all conservative. <BR/>I can say for myself, even though Paige and I agree theologically on 99.9% of things, he still sees me as his enemy. I'm not. It's sad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-11466732578110371742007-05-20T15:50:00.000-05:002007-05-20T15:50:00.000-05:00SWBTS needs to stop allowing women in. It is uneth...SWBTS needs to stop allowing women in. It is unethical for them to take tuition money from women if they believe they cannot use their education...even teaching classes in a seminary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-37521847570961026552007-05-20T15:44:00.000-05:002007-05-20T15:44:00.000-05:00I have not had time to read all the comments but o...I have not had time to read all the comments but one thing that really stands out to me in this situation is the deceptive tactics of Paige Patterson in this situation. He should never have led all the professors to believe their jobs were secure. He deceived her.<BR/><BR/>The second thing that stands out is his lack of understanding of what this would do to her financially. Or perhaps he did not care? I am aware that Paige Patterson has few monetary worries. <BR/><BR/>So, he is a great man of God who follows scripture to the letter of the law as he interprets it, yet has to sin to do so? <BR/><BR/>Color me confused.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-60624630917039437582007-03-17T16:33:00.000-05:002007-03-17T16:33:00.000-05:00I am the daughter of a retired Southern Baptist Pr...I am the daughter of a retired Southern Baptist Preacher. He told me once, quite naively, that nobody is hurt by the way things have always been for Southern Baptists as he perceives it. Therefore “people” should just let it be and stop causing division. Dr. Klouda is one example in a long list of walking wounded women and men, including this preacher's kid who can't seem to muster up the courage to walk back into a Southern Baptist church after leaving there for the last time in tears. Theologians debate and position papers are written, and all the while people in the local churches are hurting because of it. Dr. Klouda's experience is important because people with big voices know of the injustice. God bless you for speaking out so that all might see and know, and consider and understand, that to do nothing is to perpetuate a corporate sin that is committed in the name of God.<BR/><BR/>Preacher's KidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-83092267975479474032007-03-17T13:11:00.000-05:002007-03-17T13:11:00.000-05:00I've spent all afternoon reading every one of the ...I've spent all afternoon reading every one of the comments on this posting. There is no doubt that Sheri Klouda was treated disgracefully, and I thank God for Wade and others who are prepared to stand up and be counted as they speak out against this.<BR/><BR/>Some things are apparent:<BR/><BR/>Whether we like it or not, theological 'sides' are taken, and it's unlikely we will ever agree - some can't even agree to disagree in a Christ-like fashion. Adding 'I love y'all' to a comment doesn't absolve you from responsibility for how you say things, no matter how strongly you feel.<BR/><BR/>I read a lot of blogs on women in the church, and it's the SBC-based ones that show the least grace, humility and love in the tone of the comments posted, and where there is much heat and very little light. It shocks me to think that some of you are Pastors. It is possible to make honest comments and hold strong convictions and STILL be respectful, loving and graceful - something you guys could certainly learn from us women - yes LEARN.<BR/><BR/>As a Baptist, I am ashamed to share my denominational name with the SBC, and even here in the UK I find I have to dissociate my Baptist Union from yours - the repercussions of the fundamentalist, narrow and restrictive male 'domination' of the some of the leaders of the SBC bring it into disrepute and we are all tarnished, indeed it sets back the Kingdom.<BR/><BR/>I have no crystal ball, but it would be no surprise to me (and would give me no pleasure) if the SBC came to a sticky end, consumed by its own Pharasaical leagalism.<BR/><BR/>My mind turns to a poem. I have addded my own verse. The version inscribed at the New England Holocaust Memorial in Boston, Massachusetts reads:<BR/><BR/>They came first for the Communists, <BR/>and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. <BR/>Then they came for the Jews, <BR/>and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. <BR/>Then they came for the trade unionists, <BR/>and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. <BR/>Then they came for the Catholics, <BR/>and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. <BR/>Then they 'came for' the women, and I didn't speak up because I was a man.<BR/>Then they came for me, <BR/>and by that time no one was left to speak up. <BR/><BR/>I thank God for men like Wade. You might be next...if you think differently in any way from your 'leaders', you WILL be next, and you'll wish there were more Wades.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-58500584098490101272007-03-14T13:43:00.000-05:002007-03-14T13:43:00.000-05:00I have a couple issues with the people who take 1 ...I have a couple issues with the people who take 1 Tim. 2:12 and say that all women should not be teaching doctrine to men. Here are my issues:<BR/><BR/>1) This book was written to Timothy regarding ministry to the people in Ephesus. The women there had been corrupted by false teachings and were bringing those false teaching into the church. It was this issue that Paul was mentoring Timothy on. He also mentioned men bringing false teaching in 1 Tim. 1:3. He also speaks to the women's deception in verse 14. You see at the tree the woman was deceived and spoke through that deceit. But let me ask you, was Adam deceived? No, just rebellious. He was not deceived, yet ate. Who was really weaker? Those that sin out of being deceived or those that sin out of a clear mind and purpose...that is another issue all together, because the man was standing right there allowing his wife to be deceived. (Gen 3:6 "...with her...")<BR/><BR/>2)If you take verse 12 and say that women can not teach doctrine. You must take the following as well:<BR/><BR/>vs. 9 - your wife can't braid her hair, wear pearls or gold or buy expensive clothes. <BR/><BR/>or how about<BR/><BR/>vs. 12 - 'women will be saved through childbearing'...hm, tell your wife that!! I am pretty sure this is where the Mormons base their doctine on women bearing children to gain access to their husband's planet when we die. Sure is interested how we like to choose our verses. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-56032150304653312792007-03-12T23:07:00.000-05:002007-03-12T23:07:00.000-05:00Everyone, I am sorry if I say something that has a...Everyone, I am sorry if I say something that has already been said. I am late to the discussion, and I did not take the time to read all 363 comments, although I did read many of them. I read enough to know that there are many discussions going on here. I am deeply troubled by the way SWBTS treated Dr. Klouda. I am also deeply troubled by the SBC's policies of late. But it also troubles me that this issue will be decided by the state. Personally I think a broader version of Matthew 18 would have to apply to Mrs. Klouda's situation, and her case against SWBTS. <BR/><BR/>My #1 question would be, "Should the state have control over the policies and decisions of SBC seminaries?" Even if Patterson's, and Southwestern's interpretation of the Bible in regard to women (orany other issue), I am not ready to turn over authority to the state in regard to Seminary policy. Someone made a good point early on in this discussion. What about policies regarding homosexuals? Could a homosexual man (or woman) apply for a position with SWBTS as a professor, push the issue and get a meeting with Patterson (thereby getting him to clearly state that he would not hire them because of their sexual lifestyle, which would inevitably happen), and then follow the same course of action as Dr. Klouda is following (albeit reluctantly)? Could not this homosexual file the same kind of suit? If Dr. Klouda is justified in her action, would not a homosexual who had been turned down for a job based on sexual preference be justified in the same? Mr. Burleson, am I wrong? Are you, Mr. Burleson, ready to give full authority over the seminary to the federal government of the U.S.? <BR/><BR/>Me second question is, "why is anyone looking for charity, or virtue, or least of all consistency from Leighton Paige Patterson. He is nothing more (and nothing less) than a pampered, aristocratic politician. I have taken his classes. I know how inconsistent he is in all kinds of areas. I am convinced that he himself is the standard by which he judges all things. Don't look for anything consistent to come from Paige. We can only trust him to be who he is. <BR/><BR/>My last question gets back to the earlier comment (by me) regarding a broad version of Matt. 18 to be considered. Why is this matter not being settled by the SBC? If Dr. Klouda could not work it out with Patterson, and if she could not work it out with the trustees and the administration of Southwestern, then shouldn't there be some kind of undertaking by the SBTC in this case? Shouldn't there some kind of interest on the part of the SBTC to settle this, and to keep it out of the court, thereby keeping Christ's name out of the dirt of this nation's legal system (not a comment against you attorneys reading this, I love you and what you do (some of you))? I am for justice being done in regard to Dr. Klouda and her family. But I am more concerned with the name of Christ. Shouldn't we all be? Shouldn't we all be ready to be defrauded for the sake of the name (surely I don't have to quote the verse, look it up)? This case should never see the courtroom. <BR/><BR/>With much respect and concern for all involved, <BR/><BR/>Soli Deo Gloria.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-18824321435959125072007-03-10T17:57:00.000-06:002007-03-10T17:57:00.000-06:00I have been attending SBC churches since I was fiv...I have been attending SBC churches since I was five and was saved when I was nine. Not in all my over fifty years as a SBC have I been more ashamed of my denomination. Truly the tile being circulated on the West Coast fits, we have become the Pharisees of the 21st Century......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19615457.post-3970544426207454282007-02-17T08:29:00.000-06:002007-02-17T08:29:00.000-06:00I havent the time to read the entire blog thread; ...I havent the time to read the entire blog thread; however, it is interesting that we havent heard about removing women from trustee positions. If the trustees have an accountability authority over an institution that would mean they are "over" even the institution head. I guess we ought not to baptize woman in the company of men since that baptism might convict a man and "teach" him something. This is getting ridiculous. But let's admit there are a number of areas where it is expidient for us to allow something. I believe the classroom is one such area.MikeLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06530611008368462045noreply@blogger.com