"I went to Jerusalem to become acquainted (Gk. istoria) with Cephas" - Paul's words from Galatians 1:18.

Should a Christian Always Obey the Government?

I have a fairly high profile in the city where I serve as a pastor (Enid, Oklahoma). When you live in the same city for thirty years, people get to know you, and you get to know them.

Mayor George Pankonin and I are friends, as are City Manager Jerald Gilbert and I.  George, Jerald, and U.S. Senator James Lankford, were my guests on a live online broadcast three weeks ago. Enid Councilman David Mason will be my guest next week. Senator Lankford and Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt have each come to Enid at my invitation to speak to civic clubs or to the church I serve.

That's why it probably stings a little when I'm vocal against Emergency Orders issued by our state and local government leaders. I've spoken with all of them privately about my feelings, but I sensed (and saw) last Tuesday night at the Enid City Council meeting that our local leaders are being pressured by some to extend the city's Emergency Order.

My opposition to an Emergency Order is not personal; it is based upon principle. Besides the disparity of allowing national chains to remain open while our local small business owners suffer, there are two major issues with government Emergency Orders.
1. The government encroachment into private businesses, ordering them closed without due process, is supremely unconstitutional, especially when there's been no "emergency" in a shortage of hospital ICU capacity (the original reason given for the EO).
2. The thousands of lives being wrecked and destroyed in the effort to save "even one life" from Covid-19 is immoral, for we unintentionally destroy far more lives in the cure than does the disease itself.
But Doesn't Romans 13 Tell Christians to Obey the Government Authorities?  

Some of my Christian friends are asking, "As a Christian, aren't we supposed to obey the government? Isn't that what Romans 13 teaches?"

No. The Scripture nowhere teaches that Christians are to obey leaders. We are called to respect them.

Howard Zinn (1922-2010), a socialist leader in the Civil Rights movement once made this accurate observation:
"Historically, the most terrible things: war, genocide, and slavery, have resulted not from disobedience, but from obedience." 
But doesn't Romans 13:1 tell us to obey government authorities? It reads:
"Everyone must submit to the governing authorities."  
Most Christians wrongly think that the word "submit" means "obey."  It doesn't.

Paul escaping the governor of Damascus
The Apostle Paul wrote Romans 13:1.

He had been living in the city of Damascus, Syria. A local governor issued an order for Paul's arrest.

Paul found out about the order to turn himself into governing authorities.

Did Paul obey them? No. He hid in a basket as friends lowered him down from atop the city wall, and Paul escaped (see Acts 9:23-31).

That doesn't sound like obedience to governing authorities, does it?

The Apostle Peter wrote something similar to Paul. "Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men" (I Peter 2:13).

Yet Peter, arrested by King Herod for "crimes against the state" and ordered to stand trial, escaped from jail the night prior to the trial. Does that sound like obedience to government authorities?

Are Paul and Peter hypocrites? No, they are not.

The word submit used in Romans 13:1 and I Peter 2:13 does not mean "to obey."  It's the same word used in Ephesians 5:21 when Christians are called to submit to "one another," and in Ephesians 5:22, "wives (submit) to husbands."  Christian men and women, Christian husbands and wives, are to submit to one another like Christians are to submit to governing authorities.

The Greek word translated submit is hupo-tasso.  It literally means to arrange stuff respectfully in an "orderly manner underneath." Submission means I am respectful to those that God places in my life, voluntarily yielding to them when I am persuaded by their arguments.  

Christian husbands must persuade their wives and Christian wives must persuade their husbands. Likewise, governments must persuade their subjects. Submit means that Christians respect those placed in their lives by God for the purpose of social order, but it never means blind obedience. Submission involves a voluntary act of one's will. 

A Christian can submit to authority while disobeying authority. For obedience to occur, a  Christian must be convinced of the propriety, legality, and beneficiality of an action. "To obey" is completely different than "to submit."

Respectful Dissent and the Willingness to Pay the Price Is Submission

A Christian activist may protest a law, ordinance, or Emergency Order through a social media campaign, a sit-in, or outright disobedience.

For a Christian to submit (Romans 13:1) while disobeying government authorities means that the Christian is respectful and civil, but unconvinced of the morality of the action demanded, and is willing to pay the price for the dissent.

The Christian understands authorities may wish to arrest him. The Christian doesn't fear losing friends who don't understand because he's protesting for the betterment of his friends and other people, not himself. The Christian doesn't worry about being shut out from future honors or appointments.  The Christian always speaks kindly of those who disagree.

That's submission. 
Submission is a respectful attitude, an engaged mind, and a willing participation. 
Blind obedience is the opposite of Christian living, whether it be blind obedience at your church, in your home, or participating in your civic duty. 

Blind obedience is, in fact, detrimental to society and harmful personally. Tyranny forces to obedience. Liberty persuades to compliance. 

Government officials are appointed by God to bring about order and we respect them for their role.

But there may come a time in our lives when we. on the basis of principle, may disobey governing authorities.

Let's all be submissive about it when we do. 

64 comments:

Donald Johnson said...

I agree with your article as far as it goes. But I also think that obeying is one way to practice submission (just not the only way), I think you may also and just did not mention that, perhaps it was obvious.

Wade Burleson said...

Of course, Donald. I prefer the phrase, "deference through persuasion." Of course, I soldier must obey, children are called to "obey their parents" (a different word than hupatasso), and employees are called to obey their employers.

Thanks!

Gerald Polmateer said...

There is a reason why communists do not want Christians. Communists want power and control. what they don't realize is they don't know the one who is in control. Daniel knew who is in control and Nebuchadnezzar realized that later.

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

Will you ever STOP confusing GOVERNMENT with RELIGIOUS LEADERS?

You showed a picture of Paul escaping from the governor of Damascus as recorded in Acts 13:1. (The Scripture is recorded in Acts 9:23 and 2 Corinthians 11:33)

“After a while the Jewish leaders determined to hill him…So during the night some of his converts let him down in a basket through an opening in the city wall.” (Acts 9:23-25 Living)

“After a while some of the Jews plotted together to kill him…So during the night some of the other believers lowered him in a large basket through an opening in the city wall.” Acts 9:23-25 NLT)

In 2 Corinthians the word “governor” is used, but wouldn’t he be one of the Jewish leaders?

Can’t you see how you twisted this Scripture to fit your agenda?

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

You probably won’t reply to this. My step-son-in-law lives within a 30-minute drive to New York. I’ll bring our ‘Fannin County Tent' to you and you can put it up in his back-yard for an “Old-time-tent-Revival”. :)

Wade Burleson said...

Rex,

Throughout history, religious leaders (regardless of the religion) were always the political leaders

Only in America has there been a separation of church and state.

Thanks for your comments.

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

I see your point that history religious leaders were political leaders, but in America there’s separation of church and state.

So, along that line, Paul shouldn’t be an example of “Should a Christian Always Obey the Government?”

Christiane said...

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2020/03/the-ultimate-and-the-penultimate-an-important-distinction-in-christian-ethics/

obedience in the Holy Gospels was often 'reworded' by Our Lord to mean 'sure, follow the Law, but not at the expense of the innocent'

but also, on another level, this:
'he who is without sin, cast the first stone'

so many examples in the Holy Gospels of departing from mindless 'obeying' and instead assuming an active assent to humane and humble ways of living, where 'do not do unto others that which you would not want done to yourself'

moral conscience: a 'universal' gift of God to human beings that guides us towards what is good and away from what is evil;
but we must 'choose' our pathway and then we will be held accountable for what we did that was evil and what we did not do that would have been a moral response to a situation where instead, we turned away, grew silent, walked on by . . .

moral conscience, guided by God, points us to obey a 'higher law' and that takes humility and courage and selflessness

Mercy and Truth said...

The Scriptures teach that we should obey God rather than man.

I like the definition of submission you gave, Pastor Burleson. Arranging things in an orderly manner underneath authority can be seen as making sure everything lines up. Every authority needs to be in alignment under the Ultimate Authority - God. There are Spiritual Authorities and earthly authorities, (sometimes they are one and the same). When authorities are out of alignment with God, we continue to follow God. Paul said, "Follow me as I follow Christ", he didn't say, "Follow me as you follow Christ". When the leaders stop following Christ, we are to stay the course; and accept the consequences. As much as lies in us, we should live peaceable with all men, however the time may come when following what God has called us to do is out of line with the earthly authorities. We should be wise as serpents, (foreseeing the traps the Old Serpent, the devil would use to destroy us), and harmless as doves, (doing ALL things in love). And we should obey God rather than man. GBY

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

I don’t know how you keep track of comments made on you post, but this is the way I do it. At present, I have three pages stapled together. (With a close pin on them so it’s easy to find.) The posts are listed by dates with the latest at the bottom of the page. As comments are made, I add the number to the list.

At present, there are 44 post listed. It takes about five minutes to see if any new comment has been made.

I noticed last night on post 4-21-20 that Christiane has asked for prayer for her 82-year-old husband who has cancer, and her son is coming from Alaska.

Also on post 4-20-20 the last post was made by a guy advertising his games.

Christiane said...

hello REX RAY

my husband will be taken off the ventilator today, signs are poor, not much hope given

two days ago, before he was taken to hospital, he told me there was a bunny in the back yard,
and sure enough, I look out this morning, and there the little rabbit is sitting there . . . . . . God comes near :) God comes near.

Today will be a hard one. My son is home from Alaska to be with us at this time. For this, I thank God.

Stay safe, God Bless

P.S. My husband does NOT have the virus, his situation is much worse
Please say a prayer for us at this time and I thank you. Stay safe.

Wade Burleson said...

Rex,

Thank you for your comment. I had not read about Christiane's husband.

Christiane, I just now read your comment. Oh my.

My prayers are with you today (Saturday, April 25). May the Lord give you peace, and may the Lord give your husband special grace.

Our prayers are with you and your family!

Muff Potter said...

Well put together and well said Wade.

Anonymous said...

Should a Christian always obey the government? Of course not, not when obeying the government is disobeying Christ.

That said, when the government calls on people to accept drastic measures in the middle of an epidemic it is not government overreach. It is sanity, and when we obey them we obey our Lord who tells us to love our neighbor as ourselves.

We can get our daily dose of republican politics on fox news.

Seriously wish I could get you 72 hours on the front lines in New York, New Jersey, or Colorado, all of which we have relatives. Seriously wish you could kiss your wife goodby tonight and go clean up the diarrhea and vomit from a covid patient, do a few dozen intubations, repeat repeat repeat working a triple (3 24 hr days without a break), then go sleep in your camper parked where they take the dead bodies so you do not go home and infect your family.

Then and only then would you have something to say about government overreach in asking us all to stand down for a time.

linda

Anonymous said...

^Wow, is bitterness a fruit of the spirit? Asking for a friend.

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

WOW! After Linda’s comment, you know what it like if you were on the “Harper Valley PTA”. :)

Christiane said...

Dear WADE and good people:

Please remember in the midst of all this trouble to tell your loved ones you love them and to keep them close. So Important.

All the OTHER upset is also important, but PLEASE hold your loved ones close, and make that a priority. God Bless!

Thanks for all prayers.
So grateful.
Will update.

RB Kuter said...

I believe your addressing this issue of how we should position our response to the governmental authorities as followers of Jesus is very timely. The manner in which government has usurped its authority in this current crisis situation is likely a forerunner to what we will be forced to deal with as believers in the not so far future. Today's government application of control under the premises of a global health crisis is indeed a picture of how it could occur under other premises in future days.

I don't know your perspective on this, Wade, but personally, I believe that the extremity of global crisis in this generation is an indicator of our living within the "end times" as Jesus described in Matthew 24 that precedes The Great Tribulation and the subsequent Return of the Messiah.

I acknowledge that we have always had extreme conflict, depression, plagues and wars on a global basis in the past that surpass what we see today in many aspects. But I believe the one indicator that exceeds that of the past is the spiritual depravity of mankind with the associated decadence of societies, especially those once identified as being God-fearing.

I do not believe there has ever been a time in the modern era (last century) when there was such blatant heresy, open blasphemy against God, and total abandonment of Godly principles and lifestyle to the point of even promoting, propagating and defending it as exists today. Even with all of the accounts of genocide in WW II Germany, Rwanda, Bosnia and other places, there has NEVER been anything on the level of disdain for innocent human life as has been taking place in the past 4 decades with government sponsored infanticide on a global basis. The failure of the church to collectively and boldly protest the unraveling of society to the point of accommodating, sympathizing and even affirming the decadence is also unprecedented and another visual indicator of the degree to which we have fallen.

This rotten condition of the core of society leads me to personally conclude that the stage is set for the imminent arise of those elements that introduce The Great Tribulation period promised by God to take place.

By no means am I proposing any specific time for the unveiling of this final chapter in God's plan to occur. But at my house right now, there is lightning on the horizon, dark clouds moving in rapidly and thunder rolling. I don't need my weather alert signal alarm sounding off to tell me that a storm is imminent and I need to unplug my TV before going to bed.

Rex Ray said...

RB Kuter,

What’s happened to you? I’ve always admired your logic and wisdom in the past, but now, if I read you right, you’re predicting Matthew 24 is about to happen; the Great Tribulation period promised by God.

You said, we have always had extreme conflict, depression, plagues and wars (World War II) on a global basis in the past that SURPASS what we see today in many aspects. You said you believe the one indicator that exceeds that of the past is the spiritual depravity of mankind…especially those once identified as being God-fearing.

WHAT? If Hitler didn’t fear God; why did his soldiers’ belt buckles have, “In God we trust”.

You said our government has USURPED its authority.

Does that mean Trump has established ‘rules’ in trying to stop the virus? Judy’s in a quilting club, but they’ve changed from quilts to face masks.

Mark Friesland said...

In Matthew 24:36, Jesus said, "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only." All people who have predicted the end times in the past have been disappointed and have become objects of ridicule. We should all be prepared to die now rather than waiting for Jesus to come again. Every Sunday in my church, we say during communion: "Christ has died. Christ is risen. Christ will come again."
Don't forget the many more apocalyptic times in the past which didn't take place in the Last Days; all wars, for example. the many outbreaks of the plague killed millions. The word "plague" comes from the Latin word "plaga" which means "stroke" During plague outbreaks, people were dropping dead in the streets. Some people imagined that plague victims received a quick "stroke" on their backs from the angel of death. Some even said they could see the blue handprint of the angel of death on the backs of those who died.
The H1N1 influenza virus (subtype A/H1N1), started in 1918. It was much more lethal than COVID-19. It is more likely that it started in Kansas at a military base, rather than in Spain. It is endemic in pigs. The swine influenza virus is transmitted to humans via contact with infected pigs or in environments contaminated with the Swine influenza viruses. It is rapidly transmitted from person to person. Nearly one third of the world population was infected with the H1N1 virus. As many as fifty million people died worldwide from the influenza of 1918-1920.
One Army assignment was in a rapid-deployment unit, the 101st Airborne Division at Ft. Campbell, KY. We could be almost anywhere in the world in 18 hours. If many soldiers get sick or die from the flu on base, we could no longer deploy. The 2,100 bed hospital with 30 ICU beds would be overwhelmed quickly. The flu would spread rapidly in the barracks. This would be a severe threat to national security. The only other rapid-deployment unit is the 82nd Airborne at Ft. Bragg, NC. The number of COVID-19 cases in the military are top secret.
παρουσία is in the LXX. The word "rapture" isn't in any modern English Bible. John Darby was the first translator to use the word "rapture" in his English translation of the Bible, in 1833. If you used the word "rapture," up until 1832, Christians would not have understood what you meant. ἁρπάζω, means "to snatch away" or "to seize." That word comes closer to mean being abducted (to be put into slavery) than for people to be gently drawn into Heaven by a benevolent Jesus. The ancient Greek word for "rapture" is ἔκστασις. In the early church, Chiliastic teaching was the dominant view.
We may get a vaccine some time next year. I am willing to volunteer for tests of a vaccine. When I lived in Atlanta, I volunteered with the CDC to be tested with an experimental Ebola Vaccine. The tests weren't successful, but nobody get sick. What is troubling is that another, horribly lethal virus (actually two lentiviruses) has eluded the pursuit of vaccinologists for decades. That virus is the Human Immunodeficiency Virus.
The governors of Florida and Georgia have re-opened businesses and beaches. You are free to go out and get infected or to infect and kill other people. Cash means more than human life in FL and GA. Even Trump has said publicly that he disagrees with Republican Governor, Brian Kemp, in re-opening Georgia's economy. Things will be fine in FL and GA for 2 or 3 weeks. Then there will be massive outbreaks with many deaths in GA and FL,

Rex Ray said...

Mark Friesland,

PREACH ON BROTHER, PREACH ON!

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

Today’s newspaper headlines: “Grayson County confirms new cases of COVID-19”

Same paper stated: “Homeless people at greater risk from COVID-19. An estimated 553,000 people experience homelessness in the United States, a dangerous living situation that’s being exacerbated by the coronavirus outbreak.”

“Fort Collins, Colorado. Dozens of men and women are making their tents more stable as they prepare for a storm to drop 10 inches of snow.”

“We have a situation that’s suddenly at the front of people’s minds because they recognize the health of their neighbor has immense impact on their own health.” (Commissioner Kenneth Hodder; Western District commander, Salvation Army.”

Long ago, my sister was shopping with a new member of their church that said, “This is expensive; I don’t know if I should buy it or not.”
“You might as well; if you don’t, the second wife will.”
“I AM THE SECOND WIFE!”

My brother let things grow naturally like eyebrows. After visiting new members, he was about to leave. He was sitting on a couch, and their three-year-old got so close to him, he thought she was going to give him a kiss, but she said, “Mr. Ray, why does your nose grow weeds?”

Anonymous said...

"WHAT? If Hitler didn’t fear God; why did his soldiers’ belt buckles have, “In God we trust”. "

Rex, they were inscribed with "GOTT MIT UNS" or "God with us". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns

"The governors of Florida and Georgia have re-opened businesses and beaches. You are free to go out and get infected or to infect and kill other people. Cash means more than human life in FL and GA"

Mark, if you are believing what the official narrative is, then of course you will arrive at these extreme conclusions. On the other hand, if you are searching for truth (that gets censored quickly in social media outlets these days) that allows one to see the forest instead of the trees, then I think one can safely conclude something else is going on here - like a world wide plandemic that entails an economic apocalypse and subsequent hunger games.

More docs that have a conscience and integrity are coming forwards with information that flatly contradicts the official narrative: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLVxx_lBLU

Farmers are being told to shut down dairy farms (cockroach milk is coming), throw away crops, kill livestock: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m4jr0wkt7HY

Yes, once again, Billy (Gates) is involved in more than just the vaccine industry.

Wake up America!! A huge storm is coming!

Ken

Anonymous said...

As far as the original thought of what obedience to gov't is - I agree it's a voluntary aligning under when necessitated, but a lot more could be unpacked in these verses regarding what true government is, and is not, to make the issue of obedience a bit more clear.

Far too many gov't, pastors/elders, and parents have abused bible verses calling people into submission of their tyrannical wills, and far too many people have needlessly suffered. It won't stop until the Good Shepherd puts an end to the insanity of the wolves and makes all things new - hopefully in the very near future. :)

Ken

bunkababy said...

Linda

For some the reality you or others face is not real and they just cannot comprehend the utter base devastation experienced by those on the front lines.

The disregard for humanity speaks loudly, especially when some coin that with "bitterness". Ignorance is a state in which some choose to live and back it up with every argument they can find as a defence. Like an armour in which to shield themselves. Until this virus comes after them. Then they feel every emotion possible and the utter helplessness that goes with it. IT rips down all their defences and they are left with what others have known all along.

The piety in which these attitudes lives is putrid. And I almost can imagine Jesus saying, move along you never knew me. Linda, don't waste your time typing. Some people can never see stuff for what it is because they have too much pride in their beliefs to lay it down.



RB Kuter said...

Rex Ray; Allow me to explain my reasoning in saying that past global crisis HAVE overshadowed any we have today.

There has been NO war or skirmish that compares to the two World Wars. Consider the tremendous global war machines activated for the immense production of war weapons used. Consider that "millions", not "thousands" of lives were taken in those wars, many military, but more civilian lives were extinguished than any time since. Nothing even comes close to comparing to the extent of devastation of those global events.

Then consider the level of re-structuring of global boundaries subsequent to the WWs and the domination over those former sovereign nations that was done by the victorious global power players following their winning control of the world.

Think of the many nations in Africa, Asia and eastern Europe whose sovereignty was stolen by the takeover of the foreign imperialist nations that had been the victors of WWI and WWII. Consider the alterations in traditional national borders, creation of the Soviet Union, colonization of African and Asian nations as their being the spoils of war for the victors. Unprecedented since the days of the Roman Empire and nothing has approached that level since.

Regarding "Hitler" and his fearing God with belt buckles having inscriptions, "In God we trust"; If Hitler "feared" God it was in the same aspect of Satan and his demons "fearing God" and trembling while being bent on defying all that is Godly. Like Satan, Hitler was consumed with undermining all that is Godly. His attempt to annihilate the Jews, persecution of the church and evangelism resulting in the imprisonment and martyrdom of believers portray his demonic persona.

If there were inscriptions on belt buckles of Hitler’s hordes reading “In God we trust”, it was because Hitler, like the Roman emperors of those former "Reichs", positioned himself as being "a god" worthy of the worship and sacrifice of all of his people and his military troops; hence, “Hail HITLER!”

So, yes, the level of chaos, war, crisis, during those days exceeded anything that has happened since in terms of man-made turmoil and catastrophe.

BUT in spite of the evil of Hitler and other global power players, the pain and destruction implemented during those times, the depravity of humankind and decadence in those societies didn’t come close to the low level in existence in the world today.

The outright defiance and open, prideful, boastful rebellion against God has never approached today’s level since the beginnings of the church age. Boastful self-identification as Satanists, witches, atheists, and enemies against the church and all things Godly has never been tolerated as it is today.

The disregard of life by those evil world forces of the past was deplorable but ideologies, no matter how twisted, were used to defend their actions. Today no ideology or reasoning, other than the pleasure and narcissistic convenience of human beings, is offered in support for the slaughter of tens of “millions” of innocent infants.

And today's corrupt societies have so infiltrated the global “church” that it has become co-advocates in support of much of the depravity taking place around us instead of being the salt and light that contrasts it.

Anyway, RR, this is my perspective on things. Not sure that it can be attributed to “age” though. I believe I would have taken this same position on things when I was in my 20s!! So I may be a hopeless case!

Anonymous said...

"And today's corrupt societies have so infiltrated the global “church” that it has become co-advocates in support of much of the depravity taking place around us instead of being the salt and light that contrasts it."

true words - the misogyny in some churches that treats women so poorly is a crime against their humanity

Mark Friesland said...

Hello Anonymous, It is hard to take you seriously when you don't identify yourself with your name.

Mark Friesland said...

Hello Anonymous, I don't believe any official narrative, especially Trump's incoherent, contradictory, and bizarre daily briefings. Can you imagine injecting Lysol to fend off or heal the novel coronavirus? That is part of the "official narrative." I embrace science and draw my own conclusions - inductive reasoning. I have always looked at social media with the hermeneutic lenses of suspicion. I also value peer-reviewed research. Please give me a specific example of the truth being censored in social media. Name the person who had their "truth" censored. Name the individual(s) who censored it. In our pursuit of truth, let's deal with reality and verifiable facts.
There were over 58,000 Americans killed in Vietnam and countless wounded in the ten-thousand day war. We are reaching over 50,000 deaths, since January, from COVID-19 in our country, almost as many who were killed in Vietnam. That is the "something" that is "going on here" but no παρουσίας.
In terms of "hunger games,+ about 20% of children in our country are living with food insecurity. Because the schools are closed, more children are living with food insecurity, being deprived of school lunches. It's been like that since Republicans have worked for decades to eliminate FDR's New Deal and Johnson's Great Society. Hunger has been a serious problem since time immemorial. Something has been going on because of famine. The problem isn't a lack of an adequate food supply. There is anough food for everyone. It isn't about supply; it's about intentional atraategies of delivery. Something has been going on there, but no παρουσίας.
Let's chat in three weeks and we'll see if more people get infected (with some dying) in Florida and Georgia. Florida will be worse because of that state's demographics. The elderly retirees (especially those with significant health problems) might be more vulnerable to the novel coronavirus. My expectations are based on facts and solid research; not "extreme conclusions." Making tough personal sacrifices during this dreadful pandemic fulfills Christ's teaching: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. (Matthew 12:30-31). If you love your neighbor, you won't support flawed public health policy that puts people at risk of infection and death.
The two world wars were awful, especially the use of atomic weapons on a civilian population. ] but there were also events like the Thirty Years War. (1618- 1648. As an Army veteran, I believe all war is the result of human sin. With so many wars, something has been going on there, but no παρουσίας.
What about the Holocaust? Something was going on there, too. But, no παρουσίας.
In terms of an "apocalyptic economy," there was a worldwide depression from 1929, heading into the beginning of U.S. involvement in World War ll. There was something going on there, but no παρουσίας. Jesus said, "Occupy until I come." (Luke 19). We can anticipate the παρουσίας.

bunkababy said...

Using anonymous as a sign off is irrelevant. My name on here proves nothing. I could be Dingbat Donald Duck. Who cares how they sign their name...it doesn't negate an opinion that is truth, smart or dumb.

Rex Ray said...

Ken,

Yes, I was wrong in saying, “German soldier’s belt buckles had God is with us.” Google said German soldier’s belt buckles had “God is with us”. I guess my father told me they had “In God we trust”. (He couldn’t read German.) I know he counseled with some American Catholic soldiers that were upset in killing ‘fellow’ Catholics.

RB Kuter,

Yes, Hitler was a ‘mad-man’. He wanted to create a ‘Master Race’ that would rule the world. And as “Hail Hitler” he would be the ‘king’. He set out to kill all that did not fit his approval with his concentration camps.

Did you know before the War, many Christians thought Hitler was a very devout Christian; he didn’t even allow German women to wear lipstick:

https://theculturetrip.com/north-america/usa/articles/the-little-known-lipstick-battle-of-world-war-ii/


https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/adolf-hitler-commits-suicide

“On April 30, 1945, Hitler committed suicide in his underground bunker in Berlin. The day before, he married his long-time mistress Eva Braun one day before. They both swallow cyanide capsules, and Hitler shot himself in the head with a pistol.”

There was a huge opening above the bunker that overlooked the countryside. Our father took a picture of my brother and me standing in it. (We were 16.)

Kuter, you said, all the sin of the past was never as bad as it is today. HUH? I don’t know where you live, but I was brought up in the ‘Bible belt’, and never even heard of a witch etc.

I agree with you about babies being murdered. Google states: “Around 56 million abortions are performed each year in the world.”

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

Do you like this? “Load and apply for good games. Many from good service providers Choose to play games that are easy to play…”? (Last comment on post 4-20-20)

RB Kuter said...

Mark, you give a lot of information and thanks for that. But when you make statements like, "Can you imagine injecting Lysol to fend off or heal the novel coronavirus?" it projects that you actually swallow the media hype and distortion of context and actually believe that Trump proposed that people inject Lysol. Doing so undermines the credibility of other statements that you make by showing you don't view things objectively. It leads me to believe that all of your other opinions are as biased and meaningless as that statement.

If I say, "It rained cats and dogs last night", an opponent could say, "RB Kuter in insane! He believes animals fall from the skies!". I might be insane, but better to use some credible fact associated with me than a statement taken out of context and baseless. Like, you might say, "RB Kuter is insane! His best friend was born in a manger!" Now THAT would be credible!

Sure wish we all could tone down our political bias just a notch or two in order to turn up quality of our dialogue up a notch or two. Yeah, me too.

Rex Ray, I had heard about Hitler's proposed demise. Seems the Russians destroyed a lot of the evidence that may have made that conclusive leaving open the possibilities that Hitler's body wasn't among the burnt carcasses found. I don't know, but I hear that he lived the final few decades of his life with "Eva Anna Paula" sipping wine in Argentina and going by the alias of "Adolfo Valentino Hernandez" or something like that.

RB Kuter said...

"Google states: “Around 56 million abortions are performed each year in the world.”

I don't get it. All the craziness about a virus that kills one in every 4 or 5 million that we are limited in controlling, although we can strive to distance ourselves from it, and NOTHING about stopping the intentional murder of tens of millions of otherwise healthy, innocent, beautiful, gifted, children with the potential for discovering the cure for cancer, being the greatest opera singer in history, and serving God as the next Billy Graham! Silence! No bills signed to finance huge media campaigns, sonograms for all schools, colleges, businesses to show pregnant Moms the child inside them. Nothing! Only the sounds of the crickets.

In heaven there may be some who ask God, "Why didn't you send us a cure for diabetes?"

God: "I did, and you killed her."

RB Kuter said...

In addition to the "sign" of the "end times" of the unprecedented extremity of the level of depravity of humankind in the world today, Jesus also gave the prophecy of what must have seemed an insane possibility at the time as he taught those few hundreds of peasant followers in Galilee. He said, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations (ethnic groups/tribes), and then the end will come."

Friends living in very rural area of Thailand who planted a church and meet in a makeshift farm implement shed in the middle of their sugar cane fields sent me a picture of their meeting in a "ZOOM" session for Bible study. Due largely to today's technology, Jesus' insane prophecy has become a reality.

RB Kuter said...

Humor me.

Let's get real about what is really important.

Check out these two VDOs that are pretty demonstrative of the situation. I think you will be impressed.

1. (Scroll down to view this recent testimony of celebrity name's ad featured multiple times during Democratic Debates aired nationally): https://www.lifesitenews.com/pulse/cnn-democrat-debate-features-atheist-commercial-mocking-burning-in-hell-christianity-god

2.Then this brief VDO dramatization that I love to show. (Don't get bogged down or be distracted by the brief reference of the "Six thousand years later" debate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck6aji4bdWU

GladsomeHeart said...

RB Kuter,

You said, "tens of millions of otherwise healthy, innocent, beautiful, gifted, children with the potential for discovering the cure for cancer, being the greatest opera singer in history, and serving God as the next Billy Graham".

While I agree with you completely regarding abortion and the sanctity of life, I don't agree with this statement. It sickens and enrages me to hear it. ALL CHILDREN, regardless of whether or not they will be brilliant, gifted, beautiful, or an evangelist, should be born. We shouldn't be trying to justify children not being murdered by listing what characteristics they might have. How awful. We are buying then into the world's definition of what determines a person's worth. When will we Christians stop doing this? I can't imagine how it must break God's heart.

Anonymous said...

"Let's chat in three weeks and we'll see if more people get infected (with some dying) in Florida and Georgia. Florida will be worse because of that state's demographics. The elderly retirees (especially those with significant health problems) might be more vulnerable to the novel coronavirus. My expectations are based on facts and solid research; not "extreme conclusions."

Mark,

Did you watch the video I posted in response to you about Dr. Erickson and his colleague's stats they've collected from the past two months of 9 clinics with several hundred employees they operate in CA? Their conclusions (quit social distancing, get back to work to strengthen your immune system, etc) vastly differ from your opinion (and the official narrative), and they are not alone.

"Facts", "stats", and test reliabilities are so muddied in this plandemic that it's almost useless to draw accurate conclusions from any of the large scale data bases. Listen to these doctors (ones a senator) who are coming forward revealing the nonsense:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/video-montana-physician-dr-annie-bukacek-discusses-how-covid-19-death-certificates-manipulated/5709062

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-big-lie-senator-jensen-hospitals-receive-13000-for-a-covid-19-diagnosis-39000-for-treatment-with-a-ventilator/5710960

"“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” CIA director William Casey

Hard to believe? Read below what an eye-witness has attested to:

“I am the source for this quote, which was indeed said by CIA Director William Casey at an early February 1981 meeting of the newly elected President Reagan with his new cabinet secretaries to report to him on what they had learned about their agencies in the first couple of weeks of the administration. The meeting was in the Roosevelt Room in the West Wing of the White House, not far from the Cabinet Room. I was present at the meeting as Assistant to the Chief Domestic Policy Adviser to the President.

As he did to all the other secretaries of their departments and agencies, Reagan asked Casey what he saw as his goal as director for the CIA, to which he replied with this quote, which I recorded in my notes of the meeting as he said it. Shortly thereafter I told Senior White House correspondent Sarah McClendon, who was a close friend and colleague, who in turn made it public.” Barbara Honegger

Being in the military I'm sure you've heard of a PSYOP? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXnKawtgShw

Good time to plant a bunch of vegetable and Gospel seeds in some fertile soil. :)

Ken

Anonymous said...

Had it not been for the mass selling of vaccines, Pasteur's Germ Theory of disease would have collapsed into obscurity." --- E. Douglas Hume

“Medical doctors are working on the germ theory of disease... But the germ theory is already weakening and is due for being thrown aside. Dr. Fraser of Canada and Dr. Powell of California have experimented with billions of germs of all varieties, but they have been unable to produce a single disease by the introduction of germs into human subjects. Dr. Waite tried for years to prove the germ theory, but he could not do so. During the World War an experiment was conducted at Gallop's Island Massachusetts, in which millions of influenza germs were injected into over one hundred men at the Government hospital, and no one got the flu. Germs are scavengers.” -- Principles and Practice of Naturopathy. E.W. Cordingley, M.D

“... viruses are the excretions of a toxic cell. Viruses are pieces of DNA or RNA, with a few other proteins. They butt out from the cell. They happen when the cell is poisoned. They are not the cause of anything.” - Thomas Cowan MD on Rudolf Steiner's insights.

"We must infer that at least some and probably all three of those Russian peasants died because of Pasteur’s vaccine, as did uncounted people later on....Only one thing is sure: ever since Pasteur developed his "vaccine," the cases of death from rabies have increased, not diminished." - Hans Ruesch

“If the Germ Theory were true, no one would be alive to believe it.” BJ Palmer, D.C.

“In 1915, another medical doctor wrote an article for the top British medical journal Lancet. Dr. Montais studied 21 cases of tetanus, each of whom had received Pasteurian inoculation. The conclusion of the article, which appeared in the 23 Oct 1915 issue, was that in every case, the tetanus had been caused by the inoculation. Dr. Montais said that "Pasteur had created a new form of disease." -- The Post-Antibiotic Age: Germ Theory by Tim O'Shea

“The culprit however, is not the microbe. It is the level of toxicity you have in your own blood stream.” -- Good-Bye Germ Theory, Dr. William P. Trebing 2006

“You’re working under a wrong premise to begin with and you’re never going to find the answer if you do that. Viruses have no nucleus. There’s no respiratory system. There’s no circulatory system. There’s no digestive system. Viruses are not alive. That’s like saying soap is alive. They’re not alive. They are solvents. They are soaps. However, more accurately, they are enzymes to fractionate tissue for waste elimination.” – Aajonus Vonderplanitz

“We agree with those members of the profession who hold that no germ causes tuberculosis. Germs do not cause any disease. Further, we agree that there is more harm in the fear of germs than there is in the germs themselves.” -- Timely Truths on Human Health - Simon Louis Katzoff, M.D. 1921

Anonymous said...

“We must look rationally at the bacterial issue. Consider the fact that many tribes ate primarily unsalted raw meat, unsalted raw fats and/or unsalted raw dairy products from the beginning. They did not wash their hands or sterilize their food before eating. Every form of natural bacteria, including salmonella, E. coli and campylobacter were eaten with their food abundantly and constantly. Why were they vibrant, healthy and disease free if microbes are the culprits?” _ Aajonus Vonderplanitz (1947) The Recipe for Living Without Disease

“The general public have been told that we do not become ill except when germs penetrate into from without. The germ theory of disease is ridiculous.” -- Bechamp or Pasteur, A lost chapter in the History of Biology - E. Douglas Hume

"Germs cannot be the cause of disease, because disease germs are also found in healthy bodies.” -- Nature Cure, H. Lindlahr,M.D.

“The entire fabric of the germ theory of disease rests upon assumptions which not only have not been proved, but which are incapable of proof, and many of them can be proved to be the reverse of truth. The basic one of the unproven assumptions, wholly due to Pasteur, is the hypothesis that all the so-called infections and contagious disorder are caused by germs.” - M.L. Leverson, M.D

“Any kind of flu is the same thing. When the climate and temperature are right, certain tissues will cleanse. They may have a 7-years cycle. They may have a 6-months cycle. It depends upon the tissue and how contaminated it is. If certain tissue needs to cleanse every two years, our bodies will create, if waste tissue is too toxic for mircrobes, our bodies will create a solvent (a virus) that fractionates and cleanses that particular tissue every two years, every 6 months, every 3 months, every 7 years, every 12 years, depending upon that tissue and how contaminated it is. The myth that herpes is contagious is pharmaceutical industry fiction to scare you into taking medication.

What’s happening is, like I said, we have colds, which are mainly bacterial, which go feed on toxic tissue that’s been damaged – we don’t eat well enough, we don’t eat all raw and therefore we accumulate toxicity. So bacteria have to come in and eat that waste product because we can’t keep up with all the waste. OK. So that’s what a cold is. Flu is mainly viral. Some bacteria may be active during flu. Some areas of our bodies may not be so contaminated that bacteria – the natural way that we cleanse with bacteria when we’re overloaded with toxicity or waste products, will help us. But when we are so toxic that the bacteria are poisoned by the tissue, from chemical inundation, then we have to make solvents. Each cell makes a solvent. Each cell makes a soap to help clean itself. And it’s a union. It’s like a factory. All the particular cells get together and say, “Let’s make this to help clean ourselves.” So they make enzymes which we will call soap to do that. So there’s nothing dormant about it. It’s just that when the accumulation of industrially contaminated waste is so great and you can’t use microbes then the cells make solvents, that is, viruses we call flu.”- Aajonus Vonderplanitz

“Three criteria are, according to the scientific method needed to properly identify a virus. It must be isolated from a host cell. As of 2016 this has never been accomplished in humans. It must be photographed and it’s diameter measured. As of 2016 this has never been accomplished in humans. It must be biochemically characterized. As of 2016 this has never been accomplished in humans. This has never been done with any virus (herpes, hepatitis, h1n1, bird flu, swine flu, influenza, polio, measles) let alone HIV, HPV, SARS, Zika or Ebola.”- Viruses. How Much is that Dogma in the Window? – New Medicine Online

Anonymous said...

My apologies for the two long posts above. I offer them as counter perspective.

What may be really inflicting us is our chemical ladened foods (glyphosates etc), poor air quality, high exposure to EMF's via cellphones, cell towers, smart electronics and coming 5g, stress, lack of exercise, obesity, etc. etc. etc. But it all gets blamed on a virus so they can sell you the supposed cure.

Ken

Mark Friesland said...

Hi Anonymous,
Air quality has actually improved a great deal because not many people are driving or flying these days. Los Angeles has some of the worst polluted air in the USA. Now we are in the top five for the cleanest air in a large, American city. Hardly anyone is driving, flying, or taking Amtrak. Nashville, TN (where I used to live) used to be called "Smokey Joe." It sits in a big bowl. They used to have awful air quality. When I lived there, in order to get a license tag renewal and a new expiration sticker, you had to pass a car emissions test every year. This really cleaned up the air. The emissions test was around $6, but I was glad to pay it in order to have clean air where I lived.

We eat mostly organic food and stay away from meat and pre-processed food. I am negative for the COVID-19 virus, but I am being treated for bacterial pneumonia. I am 6'2" and have lost weight. I am only 142 pounds. I caught hell from my doctor for being underweight, so I am pigging out and violating my regular diet rules. I have gained three pounds in a week. I was pleased with that. But eating junkier food makes me feel icky.

The vovel coronavirus is a virus, not a bacteria. The quote you shared by E. Douglas Hume dates from four years ago. What peer-reviewed scientific journal is E. Douglas Hume's article from? The same information is requested for H. Lindlahr, M.D.

Also, some viruses are difficult to treat and even the flu vaccine is only about 33% effective, but I have taken the flu vaccine since 1991. it was mandatory in the Army. Since I began taking the flu vaccine, it has protected me from getting sick with the flu. So I am pleased with the results of the annual flu vaccine.

You wrote:
"What may be really inflicting us is our chemical ladened foods (glyphosates etc), poor air quality, high exposure to EMF's via cellphones, cell towers, smart electronics and coming 5g, stress, lack of exercise, obesity, etc. etc. etc. But it all gets blamed on a virus so they can sell you the supposed cure." I am curious where you studied medicine and public health? The novel coronavirus has been scientifically identified as the source of COVID-19. Of course, unhealthy living doesn't help. But unhealthy living doesn't cause COVID-19. Some very healthy young people (who work out, eat well, etc.) are dying from COVID-19. The H1Ni virus of 1918-1920 seemd to target younger and healthy people. Soldiers are in usually peak condition. Many of the victims of the H1N1 virus of 1918-1920 were military personnel. That virus caused a cytokine storm. When the cytokines that raise immune activity become too abundant, the immune system may not be able to stop itself. Immune cells spread beyond infected body parts and start attacking healthy tissues, gobbling up red and white blood cells and damaging the liver. Blood vessel walls open up to let immune cells into surrounding tissues, but the vessels get so leaky that the lungs may fill with fluid, and blood pressure drops. Blood clots throughout the body, further choking blood flow. When organs don’t get enough blood, a person can go into shock, risking permanent organ damage or death. It may be possible that healthier victims of COVID-19 are experiencing a cytokine storm, but that is my personal speculation and has not been published in a scientific, peer-revied journal. Physicians in Wuhan, China claim they have found (in a study of 29 patients), that higher levels of the cytokines IL-2R and IL-6 are present in people afflicted with COVID-19. I would love for American scientists to replicate and report on these findings from China. The presence of excess cytokines doesn't make China "look bad," But I am skeptical of medical research reports from China.

Mark Friesland said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark Friesland said...

Hi R.D. Kuetr, You wrote: "Check out these two VDOs that are pretty demonstrative of the situation. I think you will be impressed." I am more impressed by peer-reviewed research published in academic or scientific journals.

Mark Friesland said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark Friesland said...

R.B. Kutler, Republicans had a hissy fit over President Obama's Affordable Care Act, saying that plan would involve "death panels."

R.B. Kutler, You wrote: "I don't get it. All the craziness about a virus that kills one in every 4 or 5 million that we are limited in controlling"

We have lost nearly as many of our fellow Americans from COVID-19 in four months than we lost during the entire 10,000 days of the Vietnam War. Don't those over 50,000 deaths from COVID-19 deaths matter to you? How many more deaths will it take to matter to you?

Republicans, who said President Obama's Affordable Health Care Act, said this Act would involve "death panels" have a different viewpoint when it comes to COVID-19. They are not pro-life beyond abortion. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/republicans-are-anti-life-party/

Adults matter as much as unborn children. All human life is sacred. How many women expecting a baby, who plan on getting an abortion, have you contacted, offering to take their children, once they are born, into your household? That would be proof you are pro-life.

Mark Friesland said...

R.B. Kuter. I just became aware that I misspelled your name. I apologize. People I encounter sometimes misspell or mispronounce my name.

Your wrote, But when you make statements like, 'Can you imagine injecting Lysol to fend off or heal the novel coronavirus?" it projects that you actually swallow the media hype and distortion of context and actually believe that Trump proposed that people inject Lysol.' "

Trump suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light treatments. Here is the video. If he was being "sarcastic" I must say only a real evil person would tell a joke during serious daily briefing about a virus that has killed over 50,000 Americans and numerous others worldwide.

Trump seems very serious here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qhrV2Ty3bM

If Trump wasn't serious, why did the surgeon general, the CDC, Dr. Birx, and Dr. Fauci make a point of telling people NOT to inject themselves with home cleaning chemicals?

Why are emergency rooms seeing so many people who have ingested or injected disinfectants? Why are poison control centers getting increased calls from people who have ingested or injected household disinfectants?

Here is a story about calls to poison control from the conservative publication Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/04/25/calls-to-poison-centers-spike--after-the-presidents-comments-about-using-disinfectants-to-treat-coronavirus/#4cd331111157

Here is news from Bloomberg,a conservative organization: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-20/coronavirus-cleaning-goes-haywire-with-grim-surge-in-poisonings

Anonymous said...

yes, this

https://youtu.be/9-VjyxgWNoo

RB Kuter said...

Mark, why would you think that any death would not "matter" to me? Why would you insinuate from anything that I wrote that it wouldn't?

You wrote; "We have lost nearly as many of our fellow Americans from COVID-19 in four months than we lost during the entire 10,000 days of the Vietnam War. Don't those over 50,000 deaths from COVID-19 deaths matter to you?"

My question to you is, "Where were you when 45 MILLION Americans had the flu in 2017 flu season?

Where were you when 61,000 DIED from the flu in 207-18? (probably a great underestimate given the low level of data keeping then as compared to this year)

Where was all of the craziness and incessant panic going on during those years?

Why not "shut downs"? "Shelter in place"? or $2 TRILLION dollar tax bills demanded in every other year when we had equal number of deaths due to the anonymous "flu" that kills Americans?

Doesn't "FLU" deaths matter to you? Is it only the deaths of those that die from a flu that has a "name" and label on it that matters to you?

Of course it would matter to you IF you had recognized the contradiction in response this year as opposed to every other year when we have tens of thousands of flu deaths that remain under the media radar screen. But we get caught up in the hype and propaganda and election year politicization of it all we get sucked in to their scam sensationalism.

You care about the deaths, and so do I. The alarm I am sounding is that something very weird and intentional is going on to intensify the impact of this year's flu epidemic and it's on-going. The media is milking it for a long as possible. I can only offer conjecture as to why, but I see a ton of players who are benefiting from this media hype and hyper sensationalism. WHY IS THIS YEAR DIFFERENT?

But please, don't get so caught up and enlisted into whatever their cause or motive is to the point of going around saying that someone doesn't care about the deaths of victims because they bring into question the inconsistencies being applied.

RECORD OF FLU IMPACT IN RECENT YEARS FROM CDC:
2018-19 USA FLU CASES: 35.5 MILLION
HOSPITALIZED: 490,600
ASSOC DEATHS: 34,200


2017-18 USA FLU CASES: 45 MILLION
HOSPITALIZED: 810,000
ASSOC DEATHS: 61,000

2016-17 USA FLU CASES: 29 MILLION
HOSPITALIZED: 500,000
DEATHS: 38,000

CORONA VIRUS A/O TODAY (APRIL 14)
USA: HOSPITALIZED: 890,000
DEATHS: 50,272

WORLD: HOSPITALIZED 2,729,274
DEATHS: 191,614

RB Kuter said...

Mark, thank you for that video link to Trump's reference to using cleaning liquid as a possible remedy for the flu. I had heard about it but had not seen it. I wish you had offered it from some other source than one highlighting Whoopi Goldberg! Talk about bias!

But nevertheless, you are correct in his asking the scientists and doctors there with him if there was any logic or possibility that something like that taken internally would be a possibility given its impact effectiveness as a topical agent. AND given how some other off the cuff comments, like his similar question regarding whether chloro-quin being a preventative and then some lunatic thereafter ingesting fish tank agents with chlorine and dying, it is troubling that he would do it again. BUT for Whoopi or you or any of the other Trump haters to then promote this as his seriously saying that injected cleansing fluid is a cure is as stupid as his asking the question of doctors in a public forum.

I mean, get real. Is this the way you digest conversation in every day life? When I ask, "If California fell into the ocean would real estate in Arizona become premium beach front property??" do you go around saying that RB believes California is going to fall into the ocean and is telling everyone to invest in Arizona property!"??? NO! Of course not.

Trump's biggest problem is that he is obviously NOT a polished, career "politician" like we're all accustomed to having. Unlike ALL "politicians", he is totally transparent. He vocalizes, or Tweets, what he is thinking to the level of it being a fault, and it's his greatest fault.

BUT don't you have enough intelligence and discernment to recognize that he was not saying that in a manner that directed anyone to do anything regarding it?

Can you not tell the difference between someone making an inquisitive reference rather than their being committed to it as being a viable option?

You and Whoopi and all the Trump haters ARE right in that he should apply more discernment and discretion and recognize the possible impact of his casual comments.

But he will never follow suit of those beloved, "Presidential-looking", talking head politicians who say what you want to hear, never answer a question straightforwardly, always measure any response to a question based upon what the political polls and ramifications might be. I understand that he is a different breed of government office holder than we have EVER seen and that you and Whoopi love and cherish.

But amazingly, there are a lot of people who are being won over by his genuineness, transparency and awkward directness. Why? "Trust". If he makes a promise, you can bet he is going all out to keep it. Steadfastness. He will stay the course. If you watch an interview with him on Larry King 30 years ago, it is the very same Trump you see today in regards to his position on America and his passion for seeing the nation be all it can be.

Sorry to campaign, Mark. It really is not my intention but I did feel I should respond to your comments.

Mark Friesland said...

R.B. Kuter, you wrote, "Where were you when 45 MILLION Americans had the flu in 2017 flu season?"

I have savings and a retirement pension from the Army. I don't have a paying job.
I do several types of volunteer work. (1) I do pro-bono legal work. I assist some very sick people; (2) I volunteer at a VA hospital to assist with patients, including flu cases; (3) I deliver meals to sick and elderly people, some are flu victims and some have COVID-19. Some have cancer. Some are disabled. Some have HIV/AIDS; (4) I have assisted with giving injections of the flu vaccine. It doesn't require much training; (5) I am a licensed lay minister of my church. I pray with people and take them, Holy Communion in their homes or in the hospital. Our church has divided into tens for worship in our homes. You have to be tested to participate. If you have respiratory complaints or a fever, we'll come see you at your home. I am preaching and leading worship in my home. Our priest baptized a man in our swimming pool today. Are you preaching the Gospel and leading in worship in your home? Are you visiting people with the flu or COVID-19 in there homes. Are you making sure that shut-ins have something to eat?

Any person who asserts that we are making too much out of COVID-19 or protesting to end shelte-at-home policies obviously doesn't care ay all about people being infected and dying. Republicans are no longer a pro-life political party. Remember their bellyaching over "death panels" in the ACA? https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/republicans-are-anti-life-party/


What are YOU doing for the elderly and for disabled people, flu victms and people with COVID-19? How do you help out people with cancer or HIV/AIDS?

The good thing is that there is a vaccine for the flu. COVID-19 and the flu are both respiratory illnesses. While there’s a lot of overlap between them, there are also key differences to look out for. The novel coronavirus is not a flu virus, as Trump says.

Many common symptoms of the flu aren’t common in cases of COVID-19. Flu symptoms also develop suddenly while COVID-19 symptoms develop gradually. Additionally, the incubation period for the flu is shorter.

COVID-19 also appears to cause more severe illness compared to the flu, with a larger percentage of people requiring hospitalization. The virus that causes COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2, also seems to transmit more readily in the population.

The good thing is that there are very effective vaccines for the flu. There is no vaccine for the novel coronavirus. Most people who get the flu vaccine don't get the flu. How many people who have died of the flu refused to get a flu vaccine? The flu vaccine is available for free at most health department clinics. God willing, we'll soon have a vaccine for the novel coronavirus

There have been tests for the flu for several decades. There have only been tests for the novel coronavirus for a few months.

RB Kuter said...

Gladsomeheart wrote: "It sickens and enrages me to hear it. ALL CHILDREN, regardless of whether or not they will be brilliant, gifted, beautiful, or an evangelist, should be born."

You may want to consider changing your handle from "Gladsome heart". If you consistently take a person's comments out of context in an attempt to portray it as some conceived wicked portrayal as in this case of my comment, you must be a very cynical, depressed, angry person; anything but "gladsome".

To extract my reference to God's beautiful gifts of children that is being discarded as waste by the killing of those millions of infants being slaughtered and proposing that I am thus suggesting that ALL of those children are not precious in His sight is as twisted and perverted as those campaigning for abortion. There is nothing in my comment that would suggest I believe that ANY of those infants are not treasures being denied to humanity and their being vaporized is anything but a demonic travesty.

Perhaps your perverted tactic can successfully intimidate some to not passionately campaign for the lives of ALL of those babies, but not here.

RB Kuter said...

Sorry, Wade. Perhaps I need to take another reprieve from interaction on your awesome blog site. Seems my comments get a bit too provocative and lead to my behaving in a manner less than the standard of love our Lord intended for us to have. I know, I should learn and do better, but after all of these years, not sure that is going to happen. I will indeed pray about it, though. God bless! Do enjoy your great posts, though.

Mark Friesland said...

RB, You wrote, "Mark, thank you for that video link to Trump's reference to using cleaning liquid as a possible remedy for the flu. I had heard about it but had not seen it. I wish you had offered it from some other source than one highlighting Whoopi Goldberg! Talk about bias!"

Do you think Trump is unbiased? Didn't you just love Whoopi in "Sister Act"? LOL

Here is a shorter video of Trump's encouraging people to inject disinfectants and have UV treatments to cure COVID-19. This video doesn't include the progressive and conservative women from "The View." Meghan McCain, Senator McCain's daughter, is a Republican on "The View" and is fairly conservative. This video original video I am sharing is from Reuters. They are more conservative (actually center-right). Reuters has been around since 1851. I've never heard any complaints about Reuters. Reuters is very conservative fiscally. There have complaints that UPI has a too conservative bias (especially in the 60s and early 70s. AP is probably more progressive, but I haven't heard any complaints about the AP. Obviously, CNN and MSNBC don't make conservatives too happy. FOX doesn't bring much joy to progressives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6f0DkdQ5Ns

Mark Friesland said...

R.B. You wrote "Perhaps your perverted tactic can successfully intimidate some to not passionately campaign for the lives of ALL of those babies, but not here."

Are you doing anything to campaign for assistance to people sick and dying of COVID-10. Some of those who are sick and died are well under two-years-old Covid-19 is very painful. I watched.

It is sad that the Republican Party is no longer pro-life" Some members of the GOP what said President Obamas ACA legislation would involve death panels. There are Republicans in the media and in elected offices are saying that older Americans should be willing to die to save the U.S. Economy. As a Republican, do you share that view? Republican Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, has said that grandparents are willing to die for US economy."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/24/covid-19-texas-official-suggests-elderly-willing-die-economy/2905990001/

The GOP is no longer a pro-life https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/republicans-are-anti-life-party/

Rex Ray said...

KB Kuter and Mark Friesland,

This is how COVID-19 and Flu affected me last month. Judy and I with my sister, and her husband had tickets to fly to Seattle to visit my twin brother, Hez, for our 88th birthday on March 10. He had the flu.

Hez was living with his daughter, Melody, who in fear of the Virus, asked us not to come. Hez and I would always end our phone calls with “has-ta la vis-ta. The last time we talked, he could only say half the word as he met Jesus seven days after our birthday.

Anonymous said...

" I am curious where you studied medicine and public health? The novel coronavirus has been scientifically identified as the source of COVID-19"

Mark, I am a simple hillbilly that's a nobody that knows somebody. :)

Be careful putting that much stock in peer reviewed studies, especially after the editor of the NEJM (Dr. Marcia Angell) after twenty years in 2005 says they are not trustworthy sources of unbiased science. They are full of fraudulent opinions and research. No doubt they are much worse fifteen years later.

"“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.”

"Harvard Medical School’s Dr. Marcia Angell is the author of The Truth About the Drug Companies: How They Deceive Us and What to Do About It. But more to the point, she’s also the former Editor-in-Chief at the New England Journal of Medicine, arguably one of the most respected medical journals on earth. But after reading her article in the New York Review of Books called Drug Companies & Doctors: A Story of Corruption, one wonders if any medical journal on earth is worth anybody’s respect anymore."

The systems that govern our health in the USA are riddled with corruption, greed, power, and fear mongering.

Dr. Kaufman at the 13:45 min mark walks you through the fraud involved with the papers that supposedly isolated covid-19 as the cause of illness in Wuhan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-NcxqeqSvU

Also, every time you get vaccinated you get a bunch of mercury and aluminum injected into your system. It's insane to argue those elements would be good for your health.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-04-27-injecting-disinfectants-thimerosal-every-time-you-get-a-flu-shot.html

Ken

Wade Burleson said...

RB,

You are always welcome. You display love and respect even when folks disagree.

Hang in there.

Not everyone understands the process is even more important than the outcome. I learned a long time ago it's not my job to convince somebody I'm right. I'm to love them when they remain wrong and not worry about changing anybody's mind. :)

Anonymous said...

Huge lawsuit coming against CDC and NIH (provided we are still intact - Trump might be the last President if they get their way). It would behoove everyone to listen and understand how they are committing a conspiracy against the people of the Divided States.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2CsNqHFx68

Ken

Mark Friesland said...

Hello Anonymous!
That was a long video, but I watched it. Where did David E. Martin get his law degree? Where was he trained in public health? Where did he get his J.D.; M.D.; or MPH? I don't find him credible. His commentary is just as whacked as Trump's ideas about injecting household disinfectants. Even though ERs are seeing serious illness and death from people who are ingesting, injecting, or who have had enemas of products like Lysol, Trump is still president and he claims "full authority" with "no responsibility." He is free to say an do what he wants (even if his words or inaction are and have been causing multiple deaths).

You are not under house arrest. You are free to leave your home 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Essential businesses are open. Some states are re-opening non-essential businesses on May 1. Even during the shelter-at-home guidelines, you could still go to to Florida and attend WWE pro-wrestling in a stadium with thousands (which the Republican governor decreed was an essential business). As a Californian, I support our governor's stringent health laws, which are laws, not suggested.

Have you been arrested for leaving your home? Has the government locked ,your doors with a padlock blocking your egress?

Attorney General William Barr, with Trump's support, has ordered federal prosecutors across the country to monitor state and local policies and restrictions, to take action if these policies and restrictions unconstitutional. FOX News has reported this directive from Barr: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/barr-tells-federal-prosecutors-to-report-restrictive-coronavirus-shutdown-orders

Attorneys for two Baptist pastors in Kansas, Pastor Stephen Ormond and Pastor Aaron Harris, convinced U.S. District Judge John Broomes that churches cannot be blocked from having larger gatherings in their church buildings.

Dear Anonymous, Please don't try to convince me of your viewpoints using far-right, extremist, and non credentialed individuals with videos on youtube. I respect peer-reviewed research, case law, federal, state and local statutes. I am reality-based. Also, many Republicans (especially Republican governors and Republicans in Congress, support current strict public health policies and laws)

Mark Friesland

Anonymous said...

"Where did David E. Martin get his law degree? Where was he trained in public health? Where did he get his J.D.; M.D.; or MPH? I don't find him credible. His commentary is just as whacked as Trump's ideas about injecting household disinfectants"

Good question, and I dunno. His blue bow tie made him appear professional enough for me. He might've been wearing shorts too :) Kidding aside, sometimes the folks that are self taught, and not indoctrinated by the system (law/theology/medicine, etc.), are the most keen in understanding and seeing the bigger picture.

Thought for sure someone would call me out for not qualifying conspiracy as "an alleged". Dr. Martin may not make much traction in the court of law even if he's correct in his understanding since there is so much propaganda and deceit floating around.

“In this age, in this country, public sentiment is everything. With it, nothing can fail; against it, nothing can succeed. Whoever molds public sentiment goes deeper than he who enacts statutes, or pronounces judicial decisions.”
― Abraham Lincoln

Ken

Anonymous said...

Corruption exposed in CDC by one PhD who was employed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgnBldI7KPY

GladsomeHeart said...

R.B.,

What an ugly and extremely personal and demeaning comment you have made about me. Wade you are wrong about his interactions being respectful. He's like a snarling dog who because he thinks he's being attacked tears free from his chain and goes for the kill. If you are a Christian, I want no part of your brand, for you in no way represent Jesus Christ. I stand by what I said. Read what you wrote and examine your heart.

Rex Ray said...

GladsomeHeart,

Maybe, your comment about R.B. describes how ‘thin’ your skin is in that YOU become that “snarling dog” in attacking Wade by telling him he doesn’t represent Jesus. (Do you believe your actions represent Jesus?)