Wednesday, October 04, 2017

The Sand Creek Massacre Worse than Las Vegas

On November 29, 1864, a brutal massacre of women, children and the elderly occurred in eastern Colorado, near a sometimes dry river bed called Sand Creek. People are calling Sunday night's horrible massacre in Las Vegas the worst gun massacre in modern American history.

The Sand Creek Massacre is worse than Las Vegas.

The Sand Creek Massacre exceeds Las Vegas in brutality, horror and the number of innocents killed, including women and children. The United States government believes we should be aware of Sand Creek.  That's why President George W. Bush authorized the opening of the Sand Creek Massacre National Historic Park on April 27, 2007.

Alexa Roberts, the site superintendent for Sand Creek, says, “We’re the only unit in the National Park Service that has ‘massacre’ in its name."  Usually, she notes, signs for national historic sites lead to a presidential birthplace or patriotic monument. “So a lot of people are startled by what they find here.

The United States Park Service manages 412 properties. Each park tells a story of America’s past. Some are memorials to the discovery and preservation of natural landmarks and landscape.  Others commemorate lives and national moments that have shaped American identity. No park, however, tells a story as dark as Sand Creek.  

Today, less than one person per square mile inhabits this arid region of eastern Colorado. But in November of 1864, there were over 1,000 Cheyenne and Arapaho Native Americans who lived in tepees along Sand Creek.

When hundreds of United States cavalrymen suddenly appeared at the Cheyenne camp on a  frosty November morning, the massacre of the women, children and the elderly began.

Before departing, the American men burned the village and mutilated the dead, carrying off body parts as trophies. It mattered not that the Cheyenne Chief Black Kettle had raised the Stars and Stripes above his lodge. It mattered not that the women and children were waving peace flags. The American troops replied with heavy volleys of carbine and cannon fire, killing nearly 200 Native Americans, mostly women, children and the elderly. What the American men then did to mutilate the bodies of the women and children and elderly is a nauseating piece of American history that we ought never forget. It will humble us.

U.S. Army Colonel John Chivington led 425 men from the 3rd Colorado Cavalry, 250 men from the 1st Colorado Cavalry, and a dozen men from the 1st Regiment New Mexico Volunteer Infantry in the massacre of the Cheyennes. The Sand Creek Massacre is sometimes referred to as the Chivington Massacre.

The Cheyennes looked to the peaceful Cheyenne Chief Black Kettle as their leader that November morning.  Most of the Cheyenne men were out hunting for food. Chief Black Kettle considered the United States his friend.  Black Kettle told his people the American soldiers were coming in peace.

When Colonel Chivington gave the order to attack the camp, two officers, Captain Silas Soule and Lieutenant Joseph Cramer, commanding Companies D and  K of the First Colorado Cavalry, refused to obey the Colonel's order. These courageous officers told their men to hold their fire. There was nothing to attack but "women and children." 

Captain Soule is the one who would later estimate that 200 peaceful Cheyennes were massacred, all but 60 of them women and children. He would later testify before Congress how the soldiers not only scalped the dead but cut off the “ears and privates” of some and that  “Squaws snatches were cut out for trophies.”

Squaws' snatches taken as trophies. Think about that for a moment, and let me introduce you to one of the squaws who resisted her snatch being taken.

Her name was Mochi. She hid in her tent after witnessing her unarmed mother being shot and killed with a pistol shot to the forehead. Mochi was hiding when an American man entered her tent and attempted to rape her. Mochi killed her attacker. She managed to escape the tent and run for her life.

According to Mochi's later testimony, it was the massacre which turned her against the United States. Mochi became a warrior. To this day she is the only Native American woman ever incarcerated by the United States Army as a prisoner of war (in Fort Marion, Florida). The Sand Creek Massacre turned Black Kettle, Mochi, and the rest of the Cheyenne tribe against the United States.

What happened at Sand Creek is a revelation to all Americans as to why massacres occur.  It's about what's in the human heart. Let that sink in.

Consider the testimony of some Americans who witnessed the Sand Creek Massacre.
I saw the bodies of those shot cut all to pieces, worsely mutilated than any I ever saw before; the women cut all to pieces ... With knives; scalped; their brains knocked out; children two or three months old; all ages lying there, from sucking infants up to warriors ... By whom were they mutilated? By the United States troops ...— John S. Smith, Congressional Testimony of Mr. John S. Smith, 1865
I saw one squaw lying on the bank, whose leg had been broken. A soldier came up to her with a drawn sabre. She raised her arm to protect herself; he struck, breaking her arm. She rolled over, and raised her other arm; he struck, breaking that, and then left her with out killing her. I saw one squaw cut open, with an unborn child lying by her side.— Robert Bent, New York Tribune, 1879
There was one little child, probably three years old, just big enough to walk through the sand. The Indians had gone ahead, and this little child was behind, following after them. The little fellow was perfectly naked, travelling in the sand. I saw one man get off his horse at a distance of about seventy-five yards and draw up his rifle and fire. He missed the child. Another man came up and said, 'let me try the son of a b-. I can hit him.' He got down off his horse, kneeled down, and fired at the little child, but he missed him. A third man came up, and made a similar remark, and fired, and the little fellow dropped.— Major Anthony, New York Tribune, 1879
Oklahoma historian Stan Hoig, a man for whom exaggeration had no place in his superb historical writing, tells what the American soldiers did with a few of the body parts.
Fingers and ears were cut off the bodies for the jewelry they carried. The body of White Antelope, lying solitarily in the creek bed, was a prime target. Besides scalping him the soldiers cut off his nose, ears, and testicles-the last for a tobacco pouch ...— Stan Hoig
Kit Carson
Kit Carson, a frontiersman, U.S. army officer, and Indian agent - known for being one of the fiercest soldiers in American history - had this to say about the Americans who massacred the women and children on that day in 1864. Pay close attention to Kit's words:
Jis' to think of that dog Chivington and his dirty hounds, up thar at Sand Creek. His men shot down squaws, and blew the brains out of little innocent children. You call sich soldiers Christians, do ye? And Indians savages? What der yer s'pose our Heavenly Father, who made both them and us, thinks of these things? I tell you what, I don't like a hostile red skin any more than you do. And when they are hostile, I've fought 'em, hard as any man. But I never yet drew a bead on a squaw or papoose, and I despise the man who would.— Kit Carson to Col. James Rusling

Silas Soule, the young American officer who refused to participate in the massacre of the women and children by ordering his men to stand down, in direct contradiction to Chivington's order to attack, paid the price for his courage. After making the rest of America aware of the Sand Creek massacre by his testimony before Congress, Silas Soule was shot and killed by assassins in downtown Denver. Silas was walking with his wife to their home when he was shot in the back of the head just 80 days after his testimony before Congress.

Did you not know about Sand Creek?  Of course not. Those who do not know history are destined to repeat it. 

1. Guns don't murder people. People murder people.
2. The heart of the problem is the problem of the human heart.
3. There is nothing new under the sun.
4. There will come a day of judgment for the evil perpetrated.
5. You can't legislate human goodness.

Sand Creek and Las Vegas are lessons about the evil which resides within man.

Thank God for those of His creation whose hearts have been rescued from this evil. 


Stan said...

The massacre of the Cheyenne did not end there. Less than a week prior to the 4th anniversary of the Sand Creek Massacre, Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer, lead his 7th Calvary Regiment to attack the winter camp of Chief Black Kettle and his village on the Washita River in Western Oklahoma. Custer's troops killed over 100 on that day including Chief Black Kettle and his wife. This location is the Black Kettle National Grassland in Roger Mills County. The site is just west of Cheyenne, OK.

stevenstarkmusic said...

Thanks for remembering Sand Creek.

People do kill people, but guns make it way easier. That's why people want them. I guess nuclear weapons don't kill people either, but I'm glad they're illegal.

BTW, I don't support outlawing all guns. Few Americans do. But we need universal background checks, reasonable restrictions on weapons that can cause mass casualties quickly, and thorough licensing procedures.

RB Kuter said...

Wade, love the information in the post, but wondering a bit more about the context or intent of its timing. Your truths about the human heart, etc. are of course, true, but can you elaborate a bit more as to your purpose and message given today's society/events?

Wade Burleson said...


Thanks for the comment. What is true in the microworld of gun control is also true in the macroworld of weapons of mass destruction that already exist. The problem of evil lies in the hearts of those who hold the weapons.

Wade Burleson said...


The stated intention of my post is to remind people that evil is within the heart of man. To project evil on inanimate weapons avoids the real issue (in my opinion).

Wade Burleson said...

That's right, Stan.

And, interestingly, my cousin David Tinker pointed out to me via text the absurd number of "Medal of Honor" recipients at the Battle of Wounded Knee. What many Americans don't understand is that Sand Creek caused the Cheyenne to declare war on the United States (even though Chief Black Kettle opposed the war), and Dog Soldiers from the Cheyenne joined forces with the Apache, Comanche, Kiowa and other historical ENEMIES to fight the United States. The Indian Wars on the Plains from the late 1860's until their conclusion at Wounded Knee were precipitated by a massacre.

Sand Creek - to - Little Big Horn - to - Wounded Knee.

Heroes are made during war, but sometimes we should ask the question, "Why the war?"

Pege' said...

Wade, I am sad I did not know about this. I have no words.

Christiane said...

In less than ten minutes, almost 600 people were either killed or wounded. The body count of victims is 58. The wounded are from gun fire or trampling in the panic to escape from the killing, not knowing where the bullets were coming from.

I agree that the sickness is within the heart of the deranged man who did this and then killed himself,
but the technology involved needs to be addressed. . . . the technology that is now legal that permits a weapon to be accommodated to serve as a weapon of war intended to kill humans with rapid fire, not for hunting.

When a 'free' society issues those kinds of killing weapons to mentally and emotionally ill people, without regard for consequences, I think we have issues to deal with, yes.
We have become a society where 'culling' of the innocent by disturbed people is now anticipated as 'to be expected' in a 'free society', and I take exception to that.

We spend billions on the defense of the nation, and still our political leaders promote the NRA's goals in order to get their A+ NRA rating . . . . maybe we need to rethink something here. Is it LOGICAL to ask our young military men and women to be put in harms way to defend a way of life where their families at home are left defenseless to gun nuts by Congress on the homefront?????

What price 'freedom'? People, our Homeland is NOT a killing field. Issues of contention are around screening for those who are not fit to own guns AND also the fierce progression of the NRA in pushing weaponry accommodations to turn 'guns' into war weapons for the culling of our citizenry on their own homeland.
We need to be sensible. There will come a place of 'enough' eventually. But by then, how many deaths?

Christiane said...

When I read of the slaughter of the smallest of the Sand Creek innocents, I thought of this:

From a poem by Malcolm Guite, an Anglican priest/poet:


" .... He is with a million displaced people
On the long road of weariness and want.
For even as we sing our final carol
His family is up and on that road,

Fleeing the wrath of someone else’s quarrel,
Glancing behind and shouldering their load.
Whilst Herod rages still from his dark tower
Christ clings to Mary, fingers tightly curled,

The lambs are slaughtered by the men of power,
And death squads spread their curse across the world.
But every Herod dies, and comes alone
To stand before the Lamb upon the throne."

Rex Ray said...


Thanks for the advice.

“Sand Creek Massacre” makes the shooter at Los Vegas look like a Saint.

RB Kuter said...

Thanks for helping me understand more about the intended message, Wade, and for sure, it all comes down to it being a matter of the corrupt heart of man. One thing that continually amazes me in this regard is the hesitancy we all seem to have to attribute Satan's role in all of this. It seems easy for people to quickly recognize and profess that "evil" is the only cause that can explain such atrocities, but we never hear, even religious leaders, attribute "evil" being associated with the very real work of the person, Satan.

One other strange result of the misguided strategy of the US in the past was when President Eisenhower ignored Ho Chi Minh's request for US involvement and assistance in pushing the truly imperialist French out of Viet Nam. The US could not go against its French ally, even if they were bent on exploiting Southeast Asia for their own colonist pursuits at the expense of the nationals of those nations, Cambodia and Viet Nam. The US refusal to ally with Ho Chi Minh, even diplomatically to achieve their gaining sovereignty of their own country, resulted in Minh's pursuit of allies elsewhere. The Eisenhower administration's rejection was prior to Minh's effectively being pushed to ally with Communist China and Russia and adaptation of their ideologies, eventually resulting in direct combat against the US for a couple of decades; 60,000 Americans lost, hundreds of thousands of Viet Namese, Cambodians, and Laotians.

Anonymous said...

what you can do without guns.

RB Kuter said...

Granted, Satan will be active and leading people to perform grievous acts of murder until Jesus comes back, but allowing people to purchase assault weapons with "bumper" stocks capable of carrying hundreds of rounds without re-loading is insane. I heard they are now pushing legislation to free up sales of gun "silencers". Right now! You can already buy them in a lot of pawn and gun shops along with fully automatic rifles.

What possible purpose for personal safety or sports hunting could these weapons accomplish? The NRA is behind all of this tremendous pressure on politicians by buying them out at election time. This is why we see armor piercing bullets capable of killing policemen wearing kevlar vests. Honestly, it would not surprise me in the least to see Congress passing legislation allowing the sales of M-79 grenade launchers. Why not?

Between NRA and the oil monopolies, "Average Joe" citizen doesn't stand a chance for having a government sympathetic to his welfare. Years ago I was briefly a member of the NRA until I received their ridiculous campaign literature constantly playing on the fears of gun owners to create paranoia regarding the Government's taking away our guns. True, the idiom "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile" applies to Government and leftist socialists, but for crying out loud, stop trying to advance to the point of our one day driving tanks to work!!

Scott Shaver said...

Christiane.Using this tragedy like a political opportunist to rail against the NRA is a pretty disgusting move. No class whatsoever

RB Kuter said...

Scott, I agree that one gets a foul taste in his mouth when politicians' first response to a tragedy like these mass murder incidents is obviously used for their political purposes. You don't hear them ranting and raving about gun control for months and then they begin to attack NRA and gun control to gain attention and support for their next election when we have these heinous acts of terror causing tremendous suffering and loss. All of them have been involved in politics for decades and have done nothing to provide "meaningful" laws that display some level of sanity to the issue.

However, I do think it is timely to address the issue and have productive, reflective, dialogue when the tragic events are recent and still hot topics for discussion. It's kind of like it being appropriate and perhaps productive to discuss airplane or traffic controller safety soon after a crash. Seems calloused, but the reality is, the audience is usually more attentive and the message more pointed when such failures in the system make it obvious that we have a problem with the current structure. I suppose it is a matter of one's purpose and heart when they address it and for sure, politicians' motives are too often twisted.

We will always have murder. But when you hear the amazing firepower legally placed in the hands of the murderer, you know that if the law had only allowed him to have a semi-automatic hunting rifle (one round per "pull of the trigger" and 5 or 10 round capacity) hundreds of casualties would have been averted. Doesn't that seem to make sense to you? We continue to have our guns for sports, hunting and personal safety but not for acts of mass murder.

NRA functions like a perverted union would that fights against safety rules being applied to aircraft to avoid crashes. Their argument is so far beyond reason as to make it one bizarre organization, yet with tremendous political power. To me, that is pretty perverted.

Scott Shaver said...

You would think by reading some of these comments that a perfectly ligitimate American "association" of citizens rather than a madman was responsible for pulling the trigger in Las Vegas.

Scott Shaver said...

Dont talk to me about "perverted unions" unless you are willing to address them all. We can begin with the NEA and move onto the Teamsters etc.

Scott Shaver said...

So you are of the opinion that outlawing certain designs of firearms will prevent those with the technological knowledge to self-manufacture their own weapons from doing so? Those tigers are already out of their cages. Ever heard of IEDs etc?

Scott Shaver said...

Stop looking for Government to protect you. If you are concerned about your safety, take measures to protect yourself and quit crying for nanny state measures

Rex Ray said...


"Six flags over Texas" is the slogan used to describe the six nations that have had sovereignty over some or all of the current territory of the state of Texas

1. Spain (1519–1685; 1690–1821)

2. France (1685–1690).

3. Mexico (1821–1836)

4. Republic of Texas (1836–1845)

5. Confederate States of America (1861–1865)

6. United States (1845 ---present)

The Texas Fair in Dallas has always displayed these six flags, but this year there are only six flags of the United States.

It’s another step to wipe out history.

What’s wrong with America today is the tail is wagging the dog.

stevenstarkmusic said...

Man is certainly capable of great good and great evil. Reasonable restrictions on deadly weapons would seem prudent. No one is projecting evil onto inanimate objects. When folks say "guns kill", we know what they mean - that guns facilitate humans killing other humans. To argue otherwise is to be pedantic.

100,000 people are shot in the US each year, mostly in "hot-blooded" interactions. Guns make it easy. That's the issue. How easy do we want to make it for the "evil in the heart of man" to react quickly with devastating consequences?

Also, We tend to want to see a difference in principle at play here, but everyone wants some restrictions on deadly weapons, and no one wants restrictions on all potentially deadly objects. So it comes down to what we think the proper balance is. Unfortunately that discussion isn't as sexy as a false binary.

Christiane said...

I stand on my comments. If they offend someone, that was NOT my intention. My feelings about the NRA are personal to me, but I own them and I cannot see the NRA other than the way I see it as a political lobby that has changed over the years from the time when it represented sensible, law-abiding Americans and it cared about reasonable gun laws to what it is now: a fear-mongering agent of gun manufacturers and salesmen that appeals to the worst elements of division and hatred and fearfulness, so much so that I am thinking that it is anti-American in both its purpose and its end. It was not always this way, the NRA. We were not always such a divided country.

What happened?

Did you know about the attempts of a foreign country to use our social media to PROMOTE
the divisions we have and acerbate them and deepen them? That same foreign country has targeted many western European nations as well. The goal is the same: destroy from within the trust of a people in each other and in their own government, reek havoc, and undermine national unity. I am not putting the NRA in that same class, but I wonder if, when it went crazy to the far right, it may have been a 'useful fool' for the work of that foreign power. Same with certain talk-show hosts, and any and all 'bots' that have promoted and seeded conspiracy theories designed to appeal to those who already are known to harbor hatreds and prejudices. I'm over it.

Scott Shaver, you speak for you and those who support you. Good. And I speak for me. And I say 'good' that we can both express ourselves, because in that enemy country that is now targeting our social media, people are afraid to speak out.

Take a look now closely at those who need to 'shut others up', and ask yourself, is that what we really want in our land, or can we return to being a civil society where reasonable people of good will can work together to solve problems and to better the common good we all benefit from? We're the best country in the world for freedom. But we can lose it if we become fearful and hateful and destructive and the day we lose our good will and the mutual support we have for one another's freedoms, that's a bad day. I don't think the people of this country are 'helpless' against slaughter, no.
We didn't start out that way. And we will NOT give in to the hundred or less crazed and homicidal individuals who have reeked mass killings of innocents in our country. We CAN and WILL sort this out. WE are not 'helpless' because WE are a free nation, and WE don't need to stockpile artillery to prove it or to drive tanks down the street either. The NRA doesn't have the 'answers', does it? The slaughter has continued under its influences and its rule over our legislatures. WE need to use our common sense and reason to find 'the better way' to curb the slaughter of our innocents and WE the people need to do it while we still can as a free self-determining people of good will and common sense who are far from 'helpless'.
End of rant.

Rex Ray said...

Wonder how big the ‘howl’ was when the ‘sword’ replaced the ‘club’ and the ‘bow and arrow’ replaced the sword? :)

Scott Shaver said...

As short and sweet as I can say it Christiane, I do not possess your desire to police and restrict honest citizens in this or any other country. I do not subscribe nor lend much "common sense" credibility to religio-political part from my own religious convictions. "Rant" away friend.

Scott Shaver said...

Rex, I know some hog hunters more lethal with a bow than rifles at distances up to 80 yards. You would be surprised how quickly they can restring one or two arrows at a time and fire again

Aussie John said...

"Sand Creek and Las Vegas are lessons about the evil which resides within man.
Thank God for those of His creation whose hearts have been rescued from this evil".

A timely reminder that but for the grace of God there go I, and every other human being.

Sadly we often forget that when such words as yours are found disagreeable and bring forth ungracious thoughts.

"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart (the innermost being); and they defile the man".

Words, whether written or spoken come from the heart (innermost being), their intent and the spirit in which they are expressed are conceived and formed there,and then are often expressed as unwise or useless words, foolishness, sarcasm, offensive, ungracious, speaking and writing and as they are expressed, either soken or written, defile the one from whom they are expressed. Jesus made clear that the heart is the corrupt fountain from whence all defilement flows. Sinful words and actions are the impure flow,which spring from words,both written and spoken.

RB Kuter said...

Scott, I see your argument as laughable. The point is somehow lost in the ambiguity. For instance, you say, " I do not possess your desire to police and restrict honest citizens in this or any other country."

We are ALL "policed and restricted" by the LAW. Driven 120 MPH downtown lately? You would say, "Yeah, but I'm an honest citizen. I wouldn't do that!"

If you were not "policed and restricted" you could drive like a maniac and still be "honest". What's your point? Do you suggest that we remove Laws, restrictions, policing? Let everybody from all countries come across our borders without being "policed and restricted". Let your neighbor upstairs play his profane, hate, rap music at full volume at 3:00 AM if he wants to. Shoot, let North Korea make and sell nuclear weapons to ISIS, just don't police and restrict them! Let everyone pack a grenade launcher who is an "honest citizen". But you can't restrict and police who buys them. Who are you to say who is "honest"? For that matter, why restrict and police pedophiles? If you don't police and restrict them THEN THEY ARE HONEST CITIZENS!!

So, go ahead, Scott, have your NRA, argue against any sane controls over what is sold in the pawn shops, support 100 round magazines, armor-piercing bullets, silencers so you can go shoot a deer in the woods without disturbing the other hunter, or whatever. Shoot, let's put machine guns on drone aircraft for sale at Best Buy, maybe with little bags of resin to spray over concerts! Who could argue against that? On what basis? Nobody wants to be policed or restricted, right?

Fruitless discussion at this point. One thing that is made clear to me, we are all arguing about assault weapons manufactured and sold in every little US town that are being sold throughout the world to facilitate wars and mass killings when we, in fact, are refusing to acknowledge the huge white elephant standing in the room which is "3 MILLION BABIES MURDERED EVERY YEAR IN THE UNITED STATES"! Why aren't we getting outraged over that?

They get no press, no outrage, no national grieving, no political support because their lobby in Washington does not pack the power of Planned Parenthood, NRA and others.Somebody's brother, sister, son, daughter, grandchild, cousin, can be torn apart before their entry into the walking, talking world and thrown out with the garbage so who cares? If it's not in your face then it must not be happening. 1,000 babies will die in the United States tomorrow, and Saturday. The numbers may be a bit off on Sunday due to the Clinics being closed, but they'll make up for it on Monday and kill 3,000.

I'll concede the absurd NRA argument and let you have it. I am going back to writing my Congressman about the babies.

Anonymous said...

RRR - what do you think of this short vid?


Scott Shaver said...

Touchy subject regardless of my "laughable" views...this much is obvious. I see while we are still on abberant lobby groups and anti-american associations, neither you nor Christiane were willing to examine with me the last 30 years of effect the NEA or others. Just the gun group. Hate to tell you but your congressman is tuned into the lobbyists.

Scott Shaver said...

A final note. I never said that I was against legislation to control the sale and use of devices which quickly convert semi-autos to fully-auto

Scott Shaver said...

A significant percentage of gun deaths in the US are self-inflicted (i.e. suicides etc). Statistics are funny things

Scott Shaver said...

And your attempt RRR to label me as anarchist is really the laughable thing in this exchange. Allow me to clarify: I do not share the confidence you and Christiane seem to have in knowing what's best for everybody else.....especially when it detracts from our liberty as Americans

Rex Ray said...

My brother-in-law used to live in Los Vegas and was told of the low crime rate.

He laughed and said, “That’s because there’s nothing illegal here.”

stevenstarkmusic said...

That is true - and using guns makes a suicide attempt far more likely to be successful. Usually these things happen in a desperate, irrational moment.

RB Kuter said...

Scott, I apologize for the tone of my response to you above. It did not show respect to one I suppose is my brother and if I fail to do that then the rest of anything I write is meaningless. No, worse than that, counterproductive. Plus, this is not even my blog site so it is also not respectful to the site owner, Wade, to write in a spirit that I am sure is not consistent that he would prefer.

As you also point out, I am jumping the "gun" on a lot of things I suggest about your position, such as portraying you as being an anarchist. Even if I did not use that term, you are right in that the description I gave as being yours would have been that of an anarchist.

Hope you accept my apologies. I will attempt to be more civil.

RB Kuter said...

Ken, sorry but I am hesitant to go to sites proposed by someone I don't know. Guess I'm paranoid about viruses and such.

Anonymous said...

I might point out that the perpetrator at the Sand Creek Massacre was a militia that was not well-regulated. How might the situation have been different if the Cheyenne had been well armed? Do not dictators use their militaries to control the citizens? I dare say the NRA membership would be very difficult for a rogue leader to control, which I believe is the quite obvious purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

To follow up on the points Scott made, I find it interesting that one side of the debate has so much feigned outrage and fear of the NRA. The political left has just as much if not more representation by lobbyists as the right - NEA, AARP, NAACP, PETA, Consumer Reports, Planned Parenthood, most labor unions, and George Soros are left wing, just to name a few.


Unknown said...

It is a constitutional RIGHT to own guns in the USA, and it SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED... Those that do not want to own a gun, then don't... no problem. Problem comes from those people, and the people who are elitists that are protected by guns and HAVE guns, that do not want the general citizenry to HAVE guns. The movement to "restrict" is only baby steps towards the ultimate goal of complete registration and then confiscation. Seen it in other countries, and the unarmed are ultimately killed by the millions. USA is unique, and we shall NEVER become Europe. We've had to save their "tails" more than once!

Dale said...

I am with Christiane on this topic. In the country in which I live I am 20 times more likely to die by gunshot wound than the country of my ancestors in Europe. Something we are doing is not working and needs to be fixed. I have a member of my extended family who was attending the concert in Las Vegas. He and his wife and friends were seated in box seats when the shooting started, but his two teenage daughters were upfront by the stage. As soon as the shooting started he texted his daughters and ran toward the stage. There he met an off-duty police officer and his daughters. At the request of the officer he helped an older couple and his wife to safety, along with his daughters. They had to step over the slain bodies of other concert goers to get to safety. Even the NRA recognizes the danger of allowing free access to bump stocks at least. I find Wade's points one and five to be an incomplete understanding of the problem. They seem to me to be slogans.

Dale said...

1. Guns that were legally purchased were used to commit a mass slaughter
2.The heart of the problem is too free access to weapons
3.Bump stocks were not available when the Preacher wrote Ecclesiastes
4. God has instituted the governing authorities for our protection that we might live in peace
5. You can enact laws that will restrain illegal behavior

Scott Shaver said...

No worries RRR. Likewise my tone on this subject could use some modification in favor of sensitivity. You are my brother.

Scott Shaver said...

Slogans or not, Second Amendment stands...for very good reasons demonstrated throughout the history of this nation.

Scott Shaver said...

The more laws we codify, the more creative the nut jobs become in working around the law. Firearms are a last line of defense for the innocents that the left claims they want to protect.

Scott Shaver said...

Guns are no more successful than psychotropic drugs and prescribing psychiatrists in aiding "desperate irrationals" to self-inflicted demise. The method of suicide is irrelevant to the manifestation and progression of mental illness.

Scott Shaver said...

The NRA does not exist to provide "solutions" or answers for homicidal maniacs. The association exists, as I understand, to defend the second amendment and to educate/train the owners of firearems in their use and safety.

Scott Shaver said...

No "law" can prevent maniacal or homicidal behavior. At that point it boils down to physics and force being met with an equal and opposite reaction.

Anonymous said...

No worries, RRR. Copy and paste the link I provided in will show you it's simply a Youtube video.

Dale - if you use critical thinking regarding the facts, any reasonable person should be able to see there is a purposeful coverup from the authorities who are "investigating" the Nevada shooting.

Very little of what we've initially been told by them makes sense (or is even accurate for that matter), especially in light of all the videos from those that were there that day. They have been changing their story little by little as they realize the public in general is not buying it.

The alleged perp owned a couple planes and had his pilot license. He could have taken out ten to twenty times the amount of people with a plane than he could with a gun, but that's only if his supposed motive was to kill as many people as he could.

Tons of other facts that don't add up, but you'll have to put in the seat time to see them.


Scott Shaver said...

Outlaw or regulate simple inertia device like a plastic bumpstock and then you will have the problem of "unregulated access" to 3-D printers.

RB Kuter said...

Okay, Ken, I watched the video. Very telling, "When Do You Have The Right To Shoot a Cop."

Circumstances given might have seemed unfathomable in times past. I appreciate your providing a perspective I had not considered. Thought-provoking.

Allen said...

So, that would be a Union regiment not confederate.

Scott Shaver said...

By the way Wade, your article on the Sand Creek Massacre at this time has opened the eyes of my wife and daughters ... Especially in the realm of a hyper-political America.

Kenn said...

Scott, it is the government's fundamental job to protect us. Most Americans do not want a return to the wild west days of the 19th century where everyone carried guns. We want a modern, safe society, free of unstable crazies freely carrying lethal weapons.

Anonymous said...

When people say gun control advocates only "rant and rave" after mass shooting tragedies, they simply are not paying attention.

Unknown said...

I think it's sad how many people get this wrong. What we need is for the police to be allowed to actually enforce the laws we have. We can't add new laws if those we already have aren't obeyed!

Unknown said...

I agree with Scott. The Las Vegas shooter had every approval needed. He had no record of mental illness. This action proved the evil of his heart. Like so many of us he hid his true heart from those who knew him. This shooting shows us one thing loud and gun control will change anything. Evil is simply evil. There is no political way to solve evil. That can only be done by God.