Saturday, May 17, 2014

The Morality, Mormon, Muslim Mess at SWBTS

Yesterday I wrote a post about Dr. Paige Patterson clearing the way for Muslims to enroll in the School of Theology at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and the termination of the Director of the Center for Cultural Engagement at SWBTS, postulating that the wrong person might have been released from his duties last week. I was specific in my post with information about the Muslim Ph.D. student obtaining his degree at SWBTS, knowing from previous experiences that there would be official denials from administration,  and the only way to prevent this was to be as specific as possible. The written response to my post has been voluminous, with many people from around the country writing me about some of their own recent experiences at SWBTS. Most assume, wrongly, that they are telling me something I don't already know.

For example, a commenter asked this question:
"I am glad that someone has finally picked up on this. However, you neglected to mention the two Mormon students who are also on campus: one at the master's level and one at the PhD level, both in archaeology as well. Shouldn't the Board of Trustees also be addressing that issue as well?"
I've been told by several people in the last few months that Southwestern is becoming a training ground for Muslims and Mormons, but I only posted the specific details of one man to draw an admission from SWBTS administration, rather than denials. Sure enough, late yesterday Dr. Patterson admitted that there it has been his practice to admit non-believers, and in giving his reasoning for why he allows people who deny Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior into SWBTS, Patterson says something quite startling about the observant Muslim of whom I wrote yesterday:

    "He accepted the necessity of abiding by our moral code of conduct."

Patterson's statement above makes me feel like Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary has officially entered the Twilight Zone. Seriously.

The President of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary---in direct violation of the School of
Theology's Mission Statement, not to mention the stated will of the Southern Baptist Convention, which both clearly mandate that SBC seminaries should prepare "God-called Christian men and women" for gospel service around the world---has now changed by his personal fiat the qualifications for admittance into Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Think about this. According to President Patterson, one no longer has to accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior to be a student at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, but one must accept "our moral code of conduct."

In other words, Paige Patterson deems it more important for prospective students of Southwestern to agree to avoid the "use and possession of alcohol and tobacco" than to affirm their acceptance of Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Some might say, "No, no, no - that's not true!! Dr. Patterson WANTS those Muslims and Mormons who come to Southwestern to come to faith in Jesus Christ WHILE they are in seminary."

Well, for heaven's sake, if that's the case, then why in the name of God-given common sense would you not allow professing believers in Jesus Christ who smoke a little and drink a little to enter the seminary and convince them of the importance of total abstinence WHILE they are in seminary?

I'll tell you why. In the strange mindset that has overtaken Southwestern Seminary, the acceptance of a uniform moral code governing the student body is more important than the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of the world. That's why Mormons and Muslims are now accepted at SWBTS. They don't drink. They don't smoke. They are moral people.

Forget what they think about Jesus! We will give them degrees at our Southern Baptist seminary, a school funded by the Cooperative Program, as long as those Mormons and Muslims who attend promise not to smoke and drink.

Good heavens. I am not done writing about this fiasco. I'm just getting started. But in closing this post, may I suggest some title changes to the songs sung in chapel at SWBTS. To be consistent with the neo-fundamentalistic, anti-Christ movement occurring in the administration of SWBTS, I suggest the appropriate song titles should be:

"All Hail the Power of Moral Claim"

"Holy, Holy, Holy Is Morality"

"At the Name of Moral Living"

"My Moral Behavior, I Love Thee"

"Morality Saves!"

Well, you get the picture. In the next post, I will show how absurd it is for Southwestern administration to shift the focus away from hiding and concealing the allowance of practicing and observing Mormons and Muslims to enter the school's theological training. The reasoning I've heard from administration for justifying this practice includes:

(1). They aren't 'devout' Mormons or Muslims, just 'observant' or  'practicing' Mormons and Muslims.
(2). We are concerned for the 'safety' of our Muslim and Mormon friends, that's why we didn't tell anybody we were letting them enter our Baptist seminary.
(3). Relax everyone! They are moral Muslims and Mormons before we take them into our seminary, and as we give them theological training, we hope that they will become Christians. They are making 'progress' and all you parents of missionaries in third world countries who have sons and daughters on the mission field - TRUST US - they are safe because everyone we bring to our school, including all the Muslims, are peaceable!

I'll address that kind of thinking in the next post.


  1. Pastor Wade, I agree with you completely. Several of my friends have been fired under Page Patterson because they did not conform to his personal criteria. It is also important to the SBC that what was once a theological flagship of our fine convention. As has been noted by several insiders Page Patterson is not so much concerned with a person's faith or faithfulness as his is with how you outwardly act. The biblical condemnation of whitewashed tombs leaps to mind. It is obvious that there needs to be both an investigation as well as a new president at SWBTS.

  2. Bravo Wade,
    I once inherited a deacon in a church who could not articulate his salvation, could not pray out loud or do ministry. I learned that other deacons had made him a deacon so he would clean up his life and quit drinking. You don't set apart leaders to convert them or get them right.
    If this is true, Mr. Patterson has assumed authority not granted to him and he knew this could be controversial by intimidating people not to speaks of it , much less alert you.
    This is absolute power and a serious violation which should be result in serious rebuke or even termination. Thanks Wade for boldness to stand for truth in the face of the inevitable attacks.

  3. This is a fine example of the take over of the "moral gospel" in many SBC institutions and churches.... but never mind that the "moral gospel" is a FALSE gospel

  4. Pastor Wade, can you please bring a motion to the floor of the SBC convention in Baltimore regarding this matter?

  5. I am a graduate of Southwestern and this revelation makes me sick but not surprised. I have also worked with Paige Patterson in the past and this is normal way of doing things.

    The only people with any authority to change things are the Board of Trustees. You should be printing the name and email address of the Chairman of the Board so we can begin writing him and asking for some accountability or at least an investigation into what Paige is doing.

    Of course, the trustees aren't going to be too surprised since they know how he operates. In the past, Paige has given his personal approval to people who were appointed the Board so just imagine who they are going to support.

    Just another sad day for Baptists.

  6. A seminary is not a church. It's an educational institution.

    True churches should seek a regenerate membership, practice church discipline and seek that each of their members are growing disciples of Jesus.

    But an educational institution must only insure that the students are not disruptive to the mission of the institution. Allowing professed unbelievers in as students doesn't necessarily mean that the institution has abandoned it's mission to train others for the ministry.

    A key question is whether the professed unbelievers are having to pay full tuition or are they getting the subsidized rates of Baptists and other financial aid intended for training the ministry.

    John Carpenter

  7. John Carpenter,

    "A key question is whether the professed unbelievers are having to pay full tuition or are they getting the subsidized rates of Baptists and other financial aid intended for training the ministry."

    Are you kidding?


    Listen to the Convention's OFFICIAL proclamation of the reason the Cooperative Program sponsors SEMINARY EDUCATION.

    "The Convention has committed itself to provide seminary education and training at the lowest cost possible so graduates are not burdened with debt as they embark on this noble quest."

    When we reduce our admissions standards to allow Muslims and Mormons to enter SWBTS, then we are FUNDING Muslim and Mormon education. Every time a doctoral mentor spends time with a Muslim or Mormon student, then that professor's valuable time is taken away from Southern Baptist students.

    In addition, you argue that SWBTS is NOT A CHURCH. I agree. Strange, is it not, that the ATTORNEYS for SWBTS argued (and Dr. Patterson supported) the idea that SWBTS WAS a church, so the female Dr. Klouda was terminated because she was 'teaching the Bible (Hebrew) to men.' In addition, a BAPTISTRY was installed at SWBTS. For heaven's sake.

    In my experience, argumentation from administration at SWBTS is based on expedience, not principle.

    SWBTS want the money (full tuition) for Muslims and Mormons, so they will argue 'we are not a church,' but SWBTS doesn't want a female teaching Hebrew so they will argue 'we are a church.'

    Can't have it both ways.

    I'm calling them out on this one.

  8. I am asking that if anyone has the names, addresses and phone numbers of trustees to forward them to me ASAP.

    I know several of them (and have spoken to a few), but I don't have the entire list.

  9. How is it that Mormons are not Christians?

  10. Protestants - yes, even Baptists -sorry to say, have their Popes as well.

  11. Scott,

    Ask a Mormon if they believe that deliverance from the guilt, condemnation and stain of sin is by grace alone through faith alone in the Person and work of Christ alone.

  12. This is crazy. I agree, Wade, something HAS to be done. A motion in the SBC convention would be a good thing. Spreading the word around to others in our denomination might help, also. Also, when you put the moral code ahead of the Gospel, the Christian students lose, too. Anyone know of a church that is led by a pastor who puts the moral code ahead of the Gospel? Isn't the result a legalistic church? We do not need students who are going in the ministry being taught that a moral code is more important than the Gospel.

  13. Why sir do you continue to belong to and support theSBC?

  14. @ Wade Burleson,

    First, I believe (though I am not sure) that the SBC seminaries have a two-tiered tuition system, a subsidized one for students from SBC churches and a non-subsidized one for those who are not. Before you jump to conclusions, you need to investigate whether this is so and whether the non-believing students are given the subsidized or non-subsidized tuition.

    To me it's only a significant issue if SBC dollars are going to subsidize the education of non-believers. I agree with you that that would be a travesty. But if they are charged a non-subsidized tuition, then they could actually make money for the seminary.

    I agree with you that a seminary has no business baptizing anyone. That right belongs to the church. It's a matter of debate whether a woman can teach in a seminary, since it isn't a church. I agree with you that they are wrong if Patterson argued that SWBTS is functionally the same as a church.

    The heart of a seminary, unlike a church, is the faculty. It would be a major problem if they hired unbelievers as faculty -- for example, a Muslim to teach classes on Islam -- because the faculty has a significant impact on the ministry of the seminary. But I don't see that there is a problem with allowing unbelievers to take classes at a Christian seminary as long as they are not taking financial aid intended for supporting the ministry.

    John Carpenter

  15. For good or bad, many churches see the degree from a SBC seminary as a sort of endorsement. After all, look how many pastoral job requirements list a seminary education.

    If SWBTS will not deal with this issue, then I hope they are prepared to let all the churches know that graduates from their schools are not necessarily Christians and for that matter, not necessarily trained for Christian ministry.

  16. Jesus Christ is central to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which bears His name. Members of the Church believe Jesus is the Son of God, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh (John 3:16). Latter-day Saints accept the prophetic declarations in the Old Testament that refer directly and powerfully to the coming of the Messiah, the Savior of all mankind. Church members also accept the New Testament accounts of the birth, life and ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    Every prayer in the home and every sermon in a chapel closes in the name of Jesus Christ. The emblems of the sacrament (similar to communion) that are taken weekly in worship services are symbols of His atonement. Christ, like His Father, has a physical body — the same body that walked out of the tomb after His resurrection, and which He invited His apostles to “handle … and see” (Luke 24:39).

    As the only perfect man who ever lived, Jesus set the example in His life for all to follow. Because humans fall short, Christ’s atoning sacrifice pays the price of sin on condition of individual repentance. His sacrifice also allows all humankind to be resurrected into immortality. He is the Savior, and in a future time will be the Judge.

    If you REALLY want to know and understand what Mormons believe about Jesus Christ - ask a Mormon! Visit and chat with one online. Mormons most definitely believe in Jesus Christ, and will testify that He is the Saviour and Redeemer of the World.

    We need to create bridges between religions and preserve and strengthen religious freedom. Religious freedom, or freedom of conscience, is critical to the health of a diverse society. It allows different faiths and beliefs to flourish. Religious freedom protects the rights of all groups and individuals, including the most vulnerable, whether religious or not.

    Please watch this short clip that highlights the importance of religious freedom and how it may apply to the situation you speak of above.

  17. If you want a real experience in life, just call Paige Patterson's office and ask for a list of the trustees and their contact information.

    I did and it was "unique" to say the least.

  18. Scott:

    Mormons are not Christian since they deny that Jesus Christ is eternal and equal with God from the beginning.

    They believe that Jesus became God by his goodness, not that He was God in eternity. Jesus was God's Son and a created being.

    They also believe that Mormons can become Gods by being good etc.

    Christians believe that Jesus was not a created being, but that he was God and eternal. This is part of the mystery of the Trinity.


  19. So I make a prediction. In Baltimore, someone will make a motion to change the mission and charge of our seminaries in order for Patterson to save face. It is quite ridiculous (but unfortunately painfully predictable) that adherence to a man made moral code trumps the call of Christ upon a persons life. If one were to read EY Mullins a century ago (who Al Mohler criticized for "shaky" theology), this was easily predicted when the preference is controling power rather than disciplemaking.

  20. John Carpenter:

    All of the SBC seminaries, by their own charters, bylaws and history, exist to train Christians in ministry. The SBC documents and related documents also state the same thing.

    If the SBC seminaries want to become divinity schools without any requirement of calling for admission, that is a direction that can be pursued, but it is not a direction under which these seminaries were founded and have been operated over many decades.

    The way to do that is for the trustees of the institutions to propose those changes, and for the seminaries to pursue a program change as they relate to the SBC.

    The people of the SBC, through their elected trustees and then through changing whatever SBC documents need to be altered to change the purposes of the seminary, can do that. But to date, they have not done that.

    An administration, acting alone and without clear warrant or even a declaration (they have never come out and said this is what they are going to start doing), cannot do this.

    It would require trustee and SBC action.

    I do not believe that the SBC will go for this.

    But people who want to do this should propose the change openly and let the SBC decide.

    Don't you agree with that approach and procedure?


  21. As I sit here puffing on a little bit of Presbyterian Mixture in my pipe, and thinking ahead to cooking dinner, which will be accompanied by a glass of inexpensive table wine, I'd like to say that I'm shocked by the notion that THOSE THINGS might be greater obstacles to my admission to a Southern Baptist seminary than whether or not I have faith in Christ.

    But I'm not shocked in the slightest.

  22. Chris,

    Southern Baptists better understand what you just wrote or Baltimore will be a train wreck when viewed by future historians.

    Well said.

  23. Louis, you wrote "people who want to do this should propose the change openly and let the SBC decide." I totally agree with you. But has this been the process in order of business in the SBC since 1979? Most of the change has been done and then condoned after the fact. That in a nutshell is the problem with current day political fundamentalism. Call them "executive orders" or whatever, the SBC has not been congregational as a national body since the early 90's when the last "liberal" was removed from the boards.

  24. Chris,

    Bingo. Golden 'apple of the day' for you.

    This time, they stepped into it big time.

  25. A motion will probably never maker it to the floor. Might wanna write a resolution, too.

  26. I believe they should not be partial to students and begin having "Call to Prayer" broadcast over loudspeakers on campus 5 times each day.

  27. It's good to see some people inquiring as to why Mormons are considered to be a definite cult and are NOT legitimate followers of THE Jesus Christ. "LoLa's" response is very typical of the manipulative and deceptive approach Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses take to project themselves as being legitimate Christians. Don’t believe it!! In the case of Mormons they believe that God and His wife had sex, gave birth to both Jesus and his brother Lucifer. They believe that God was previously a man and that good-standing Mormons will be gods over their own planets living in eternal matrimony with their wives with whom they will give birth to all the souls of their planet. All of this blasphemous ideology originates with an American named Joseph Smith who claimed to get this inside information from an angel who gave him “Golden Tablets” which were never seen by anyone else. A strange language was used which Joseph could only understand by looking through special stones that the angel also provided. I have met MANY times for many hours with Mormon elders to discuss these things so this is not contrived or based strictly from non-Mormon sources. Like Jehovah Witnesses, they are not forthwith in providing those radical beliefs they have upfront but rather insist on saying that their position is the same as other followers of Christ. BEWARE!!! I encourage EVERYONE to do your homework on this extremely dangerous and aggressive cult. God help them.

  28. Is it true that the cigar in the hand of Dr. B.H. Caroll that hangs in one of the buildings of SWBTS was painted out? So I was told.

  29. Hello

    Really what sin is Mr. Patterson committing? Are people being precious in their condemnation of what Mr. Patterson is doing at Southwestern. If Mr. Patterson is sinning/has sinned, have the Board of trustees also joined him in his sin. Have the people who support Mr. Patterson also joined him in his sin?

    Wade, in rising up against Mr. Patterson in the manner presented, is the same "sinful" nature of Mr. Patterson also characterised in your actions? For the people who love you and support you with respect to this blog, have they also joined you in your "sin" with respect to your method of approaching this matter.

    Somehow, my sense is that the SBC members will see no difference between the two camps and will resolve to keep the status quo and it will be presumed that Mr. Patterson has won the day and can continue down the same path he has chosen.

    The Best weapon/approach for situations like this where "God" seems to be absent in the fundamental operations of a "Christian" organisation is to unselfishly engage in prayer seeking God's "Face" and his revelation on the expressed concerns for our beloved organisation. Sadly, when people use the "power of prayer" to pray into a situation, they already have decided the solution and only want God's endorsement for their chosen course of action to resolve the situation.

    The best form of praying into a situation like this is to prayerfully hand the situation completely over to God and for the people praying to remove their hands from off of their expressed concerns and reactions and desired solutions so that God can take control to do His own thing.

    Perhaps, God will speak to us while we are in a continual attitude of prayer to lead us through this situation such that His outcome will be worked out through His power and Glory.

    This sadly seems to be the last course of action of many "Christian people." It seems that they believe that God will not come up with the right solution and the way forward to show His Glory.

    Oh Well, it seems that the Church should start again at the "Christianity 101" entry level in the seminary of coal face hard knocks where belief, faith and trust are the primary tools of being transparent in our lives for God.


    Tom Ross

  30. It's been ages since I've been to your blog and I just read today about SWBTS and was slow to think anything wrong of what they have done until I read more...your points on the issue.

    We've continued down a scary trend of ignoring Truth and being inconsistent as you have noted. The SBC seems to be falling apart.

    We're living in a bubble of belief that we should have blind trust of men and end up denying Biblical truth because we take man's word over God's. Simply scary..

  31. 30 years ago Southern Baptists sowed the wind. Now they are reaping the whirlwind.

  32. Thanks, Wade, Lola, Louis, and RRR. Some very interesting and helpful responses. I guess I'm still unsure of why the definition of "Christian" many of you employ seems gerrymandered to your personal beliefs about Christ. It's interesting. I've never met a Mormon who went out of the way to show why the nuances of different religions' doctrines disqualify the religion from being considered Christian, or warn another person about other religions being dangerous or evil. This whole exchange has been quite insightful. I also looked at the website and youtube clip that Lola mentioned. That's some good stuff. Not sure why there are the haters. Anyway, thanks again. Not sure I came closer to a conclusion yet, but the comments were all very helpful.

  33. Wade,
    Is there anywhere that we can find the names of the trustees so that we can contact them asking for action? If you have these names, would you mind publishing them on your blog so that Christian pastors who are Southern Baptist and who encourage cooperative program giving could start calling and demanding action? It would be greatly appreciated.
    Ray Earley
    John 15:16

  34. Still thinking through this. Regarding the formation of Southern Seminary John Broadus said, "In our Seminary the student will not be required, at the beginning or the end, to accept any given symbol or doctrine."

    Maybe all he had in mind were the differences and distinctions between Christian denominations. Or perhaps he thought the seminary should be open to anybody regardless of belief or unbelief.

    Nevertheless, if SBTS, SWBTS, or any other SBC seminary has a stated policy and/or purpose of training CHRISTIAN ministers then it would seem that only Christians should be admitted.

    Btw, here's the list of SWBTS trustees:

  35. Much ado about nothing and then, after repeatedly being asked to think clearly, I have to wonder whether there is intentional obfuscation going on here.

    An SBC seminary allowing non-Christians to study there no more undermines the purpose of the institution than a medical school (for training doctors) allowing nurses to take some classes. It's a complete non-sequitor. It doesn't mean their purpose has changed. Maybe they are making money off of having non-Christian students (which they can use to fund their main purpose) and maybe they think having non-Christian students to interact with makes for a more interesting environment so that people know what Muslims and Mormons are like first-hand. Meanwhile, maybe some of the non-Christians will actually be converted.

    No one has dealt with the issue of whether the non-Christian students are being charged an unsubsidized tuition. If they are and the seminary is making a profit off of their attendance (thus helping to fund SBC students) how is that not good?

    John Carpenter

  36. Patterson approves of non-Christians as long as they are ...

    1. NOT adherents of the doctrines of grace (Calvinists)

    2. Divorced

    To Patterson these are the unforgivable sins according to his law, not His Law.

  37. Might want to look into the finances as well. At least my good driend says so.

    Just saying

  38. John Carpenter:

    Then why not admit students who smoke or drink?

    Why have a conduct code at all?


  39. Robert Hutchinson:

    That is a great question. Really.

    I have read both the History of Southern Seminary and the biography of James P. Boyce within the last 2 to 3 years.

    You are correct. Broadus and Boyce said that with respect to the Abstract of Principles, which is a detailed confession of faith for the seminary.

    They were not going to deny a degree to someone who came through all of the studies, but then determined that he did not agree with a provision or two of the Abstract.

    The Abstract applied to the faculty.

    But the seminary was for the training of Christian ministers and workers.

    The SBC seminaries have always been that way, both by internal statement and process, by principle, and by relation to the SBC.


  40. Hi Pastor Wade,

    I do agree with you completely, yet I still want you to be careful in your motion to SBC. As a former sister-friend of him, I think you will be safer to assume that he already has the majority of the leaders in his pocket not to mention all "his" trustees in "his" seminary. Who has the guts to reject his decision for Muslims in "his" seminary? No one indeed. Otherwise she/he will be fired like many others already have been.

    Matthew 10:16. Good luck, brother.

  41. Scott:
    You said: "I've never met a Mormon who went out of the way to show why the nuances of different religions' doctrines disqualify the religion from being considered Christian, or warn another person about other religions being dangerous or evil."

    Neither have I; however, I have met many Mormons who will tell you how to reach "heaven." And if you will listen to them in their description of how you will reach their "heaven" they will tell you quite clearly how other religions disqualify themselves. If you will invite the Jehovah's Witness into your house and talk with them you will hear from them what is dangerous about other religions.

    I do not want to detract from Wade's post but if you are serious about seeking answers you should begin with honest logic. EVERY religions teaching will show the exclusion of others. The glory of being a believer in Christ is that I don't have to wait until step 3, or step 12, or step 377; I begin at step 1. Because my relationship with God is absolutely, fully and completely dependent upon what Jesus Christ has done for me and if I reject what Christ has done for me for any reason at all I have chosen not to have a relationship with the One True God.

  42. The following is the text of an email, which I sent to Mr. Marv Knox at the Baptist Standard:

    Dear Marv,

    I am an MDiv graduate of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. In light of the fact that SWBTS is now enrolling Muslims, are there any contacts yet for an organized move to return diplomas to
    the school? I would appreciate any assistance you could offer me. The Calvinist/Arminian controversy has illustrated disagreements within the convention about what Jesus accomplished when He died on the cross. My impression is that there is now a serious division at SWBTS over who Jesus is. Would that seem to be your impression as well?

    Trusting Him,

    George W. Seevers, Jr.

  43. The Lord Jesus would not be allowed to be a SWBTS student because he drank, recommended and manufactured "beverage alcohol".

    John Carpenter

  44. SWBTS Alumnus said...
    Dear Pastor Wade and everyone who reads or who may read this blog. I was one of the students that contacted Pastor Wade on this matter and have been concerned about this for some time. I did not contact Pastor Wade because I was afraid of the repercussions and treatment I would receive at SWBTS. I support Pastor Wade and agree with his ministry and believe he is both a man of God and a man of courage to stand up against the corruption in the SBC. I, on the other hand, am a coward and did not say anything about this because I was not a man enough to say anything. I am just concerned about unbelievers attending an CP and SBC funded school. I am just not convinced this is the right thing. In life sometimes a man has to take a stand, and my stand was contacting pastor Wade. I agree with his ministry and support this stand he is taking,

  45. Most Southern Baptists claim to be inerrantists but refuse to acknowledge that Deuteronomy 14:26is in the Bible

    Yes, it says that if you drink wine or strong drink, do it to the glory of God.

    There is actually a whiskey cellar at SBTS in L'ville, but most do not want to be confused with the facts. Also there was a previous president at SWBTS that was either holding a pipe or a cigarette in his hand which was painted over in the Rotunda at SWBTS

  46. Anon at 5:58,
    That's was B.H. Carroll who had his picture painted over so the cigar is now gone.
    They also do not tell you the old B. H. had divorced his first wife.
    He was the founder of SWBTS.

  47. John Carpenter: Now you have a secularized school with no Calvinists. That is not a SBC school any longer. If non-believers gain entrance but those who have not been baptized in an SBC church or someone who is divorced is not allowed to enter, but non-believers and those not even in Christian religions are allowed in then it is now a secular school and should be funded and treated as such.

  48. Hi Debbie Kaufman,

    See my comments above. What makes for the nature of a seminary (or any educational institution) is not the student body but the faculty. A seminary is not a church and should not have the expectations placed on it of a church. Statements of faith (like "Abstract of Principles", etc.) of a seminary are those that are required of the faculty (and should be enforced). Students are not required to believe anything.

    I wonder if some of the same people who resist following the Lord Jesus' instructions about church discipline, the NT pattern of a regenerate church membership, church covenants etc., are those feigning out-rage because an educational institution purportedly wants to admit non-Christian students.

    As above, this is only an issue if the non-Christian students are receiving subsidized tuition intended for ministerial students.

  49. John:

    You said:"Students are not required to believe anything."

    You are kidding--right?

    If that is true then surely this place of education is not a Seminary IMO.

    I have been a SB for 40 years and have never heard of a SB seminary admitting a non-Christian until Wade pointed it out in this blog.

  50. Three points John and both of these have already been pointed out by Wade and others so they did not originate with me, 1. I can attest to this personally, because I read the court transcript from beginning to end. In the Sheri Klouda suite the whole argument from Paige was that SWBTS was like a church. Now it's not a convenient argument and you and a few others argue now that SWBTS is not like a church. Which is it. Regardless, it is a SBC entity. It is a training ground for missionaries, and those going into ministry. This has been pointed out several times and not addressed.

    2. If you go to the SWBTS website for enrollment, you must give a testimony of coming to faith in Christ and it is written that this is a very important part of the application process.

    3. Those who have been fired or not accepted to SWBTS in the past several years to the present, have been based on supposed non-adherence to strict theological guidelines. You are wrong, students must or that should be did have to have faith in Christ as the way to salvation to be admitted. That goes for any of the other SBC seminaries and as far as I know all our schools. To say it is just for the faculty is factually untrue.

    Does it then make sense to suddenly allow non-Christians and those from other religions that are anti-Christian to be admitted as students at SWBTS. Sorry but I don't see how that is logical or even ethical.

    There is a well written post on Paul Burleson's blog that perfectly conveys my frustration. It's worth the read and should be food for thought. I hope Paul doesn't mind if I post this link.

  51. If memory serves me right the student applicant had to be baptized in a Southern Baptist church, and be recommended by a Southern Baptist church in order to gain admittance to SWBTS. If I am wrong on this I am sure someone will correct me.

    If you look at the application page the headlines says "I am called to Ministry...what next?" That is the emphasis.

  52. I also found this SWBTS blog

    Quite interesting.

  53. Headless Unicorn GuyTue May 20, 02:23:00 PM 2014

    When it comes to Public Morality, the Mormons and Muslims will always be able to outdo us. And the X-Treme Muslims will always be able to outdo the Mormons and Muslims (op cit Saudi & Talibanistan).

  54. It is a sad day when one of our top theological institutions is training Muslims rather than believers in Jesus Christ. This Muslim student will open the way for more Muslim students to attend. It makes the possibility of an extreme muslim attending at this seminary very likely. What would the questionnaire to Muslims seeking to go to the seminary include? Questions like:
    "Do you have extremist Muslim views?" This will not be answered accurately. We have opened the door, and an extremist Muslim is very likely to want to attend, perhaps even to pretend that he has converted, in order to get into the classes that are more theological in nature. Then, he can show churches his degree in Theology at a trusted Baptist seminary. We have opened the door to this disreputable conduct. Now, can you tell me that this would never happen? Some people still don't believe 9/11 happened.
    Why would we fail to understand that the Koran proclaims that it
    is honorable to wipe out the infidels (Christians and others who do not hold to the Muslim faith), and allow Muslim students to attend and have easy access to where they have rooms full of men training to become Christian ministers?
    The absurdity of the risks we take, and with the excuse that we
    are trying to reach Muslims with the Gospel, when in fact, the sole purpose of a seminary should be to train believers in Christ for the ministry! Kathy


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