"I went to Jerusalem to become acquainted (Gk. istoria) with Cephas" - Paul's words from Galatians 1:18.

The Greatest Man of the 20th Century Is Who?

Located at 1047 Amsterdam Avenue New York, NY is St. John the Divine Cathedral, shown to the left, which claims to be the largest Anglican church in the world. Construction on the Cathedral began with the laying of the cornerstone on December 27, 1892, otherwise known as St. John's Day. The foundation was completed at enormous expense, largely because bedrock was not struck until the excavation had reached 72 feet. For almost nine decades construction continued, often delayed because of world wars, the Great Depression, and other economic burdens for the Anglicans of New York. In 1979, at the dedication of the completed Cathedral of St. John the Divine, Mayor Ed Koch quipped "I am told that some of the great cathedrals took over five hundred years to build. But I would like to remind you that we are only in our first hundred years."

Throughout the century of construction worship services were still held every Sunday. Forty years into the work, sometime during the 1930's, leaders at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine decided to honor the great men of the Christian era. They commissioned an artist to handmake a collection of figurines which they housed for display under the communion table. Each figurine represented the greatest Christian man of each century in the Christian era. The men included were:

. 1st Century – St. Paul
. 2nd Century – Saint Justin the Martyr
. 3rd Century – St. Clement of Alexandria
. 4th Century – Athanasius
. 5th Century – St. Augustine
. 6th Century – St. Benedict
. 7th Century – St. Gregory the Good
. 8th Century - Charles Martel
. 9th Century - Charlemagne
10th Century – King Alfred
11th Century – Godfrey of Bouillon
12th Century – St. Bernard
13th Century – St. Francis of Assisi
14th Century – John Wycliffe
15th Century – Christopher Columbus
16th Century – Archbishop Cramer
17th Century – William Shakespeare
18th Century – George Washington
19th Century – Abraham Lincoln

I was curious as to which person leadership at St. John the Divine considered the greatest man of the 20th Century. My secretary has placed a call to the old cathedral and the receptionist said she was not sure who was chosen, but promised to get back with us shortly with an answer to our query. Until she does, it would be interesting to hear who you believe to be the greatest man of the 20th Century. Some may wonder the definition of the adjective "greatest," but without going into specifics of the criteria for the word, I would simply like you to answer with the name of the first man that comes to mind when you are asked the following:

Who, in your opinion, was the greatest man to live in the 20th Century?"

In His Grace,


P.S. As you can tell I am working on a new format for this blog. I am categorizing 700 posts and it will take me several weeks to complete the task. I lost most of my links to other blogs and am rebuilding them. If you would like for me to link with your blog, please send me an email with your blog address and I will be happy to link up.


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Glen Alan Woods said...

Biblically speaking, Wade is a saint. :)

As for guessing the answer to this question. Wow, I am not sure. lol. Let me make an attempt: If it could be a woman, I would guess at Mother Theresa. But since it has to be a man I will say...I don't know. :) But for the fun of it, Deitrich Bonhoeffer.

Scotte Hodel said...

Glen: you beat me to it. I also first thought of Mother Teresa. While I have no R. Catholic background, her life of service and sacrifice for the poorest of the poor speaks volumes to all of us.

I suspect there are many others like her but who did not achieve notoriety.

Thy Peace said...

Mahatma Gandhi.

Wikipedia: Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

Mahatma Gandhi

davidbmclaughlin.com said...


Rex Ray said...

Has any name received more money than Lottie Moon?

Anonymous said...

Winston Churchill,

Without his dogged determination and resolve all of Europe and possibly the US would be speaking German today.

Brent Hobbs said...

C. S. Lewis probably gets my vote.

Other possibilities Billy Graham, Eisenhower, Churchill, Martin Luther King, F.D.R., Reagan perhaps?

The original list seems very geared toward westerners and English-speakers in particular.

Bob Cleveland said...

Somebody ought to say Billy Graham, so I guess I will. But for my money, it's Charlie Spicer, who was the most influential mentor I ever had.

Oh, he also raised millions and millions for Christian Theological Education, for schools all over the world, through the Overseas Council, which he personally founded and built.

Bob Cleveland said...

Incidentally, I toured the Cathedral of St. John the Divine in the Spring of 1956. Our senior class had a trip to NYC and I didn't go on it, but Dad had to be in NYC on business so Mom & I went along. And I crashed the bus trip to the Cathedral with my class.

With permission.

Anonymous said...

Josephene Skaggs

posted by wtreat@centuryte.net

Rex Ray said...

Oh! It has to be a MAN…they come a dime a dozen. He may be revealed by Snow White.

She thought everyone was dead when she found the Seven Dwarfs’ mine had caved in. After calling a long time she heard singing: “Vote for________” She praised God saying: “At least Dopey is alive.”

Elisabeth said...

Billy Graham.

Rex Ray said...

BTW, How did Paul outrank Jesus in the first Century?

Rex Ray said...

BTW, How did Paul outrank Jesus in the first Century?

Chris said...

If it has to be a man then hands down (imho) Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

If women can be put up for nomination then Mother Theresa is certainly a viable contender.

It seems like Glen and I see eye to eye here. Glen, you must be a very intelligent person.

Of course, these nominations rely on us looking at them for their Christian contributions. But judging by the list, they don't have to have been that great of Christians to be the greatest Christian of their century (I mean, scholars still debate if George Washington was a Christian at all!).

Chris said...


Paul outranks Jesus because we're Protestant.

There's a reason we spend three quarters of our time in the pulpit exegeting Paul, three quarters of what's left in the OT and we ocassionally get around to Jesus at Christmas and Easter.

ForTruth said...

Head and shoulders above any other;Billy Graham.

Steve said...

Churchill sounds pretty good, as does Ronald Reagan; we all so thoroughly dissect all American political and sports figures, but Reagan endures. Billy Graham is hard to say "no" to also. What about John Steinbeck for his literature, or Faulkner, or Papa Hemingway? William F. Buckley?

I know! Bear Bryant!

Anonymous said...

Albert Einstein

Inventions galore in only half the time. (Died in 1955)

Of course, there is always Michael Jordan.

Anonymous said...

KMC would get my vote, but he wasn't born in the 20th century.

Maybe Century 21 KMC?

Of course, the way things are going, by that time "The Greatest Man of the 20th Century" will probably go to a woman.

In which case Lumpkins would get my vote.

NativeVermonter said...

Churchill or FDR would receive my vote. I would hope that a true Believer in Christ would decline such an "honor." For every award the world has, it seems like we're following right behind.

Wanda said...

Billy Graham was the first person who came to mind, and I see other bloggers have already submitted his name.

I'm proud that he hails from my native state of North Carolina!

Anonymous said...

In my opinion the greatest man to live in the 20th century was Ronald Wilson Reagan.

KevinB said...

You might as well go ahead and put down 21st Century: Barack Obama.

I hear he is already in some school text books.

Ray said...

My vote would be Martin Luther King Jr. We might be seeing part of his legacy continued on November 4.

Rex Ray said...

Ahhh, good answer to why Paul outranks Jesus. The next question: why do preachers spend so much time on the OT and exegeting Paul?

Could it be in doing that, they accomplish ‘look at me’ on what I’ve done. Could it be that ‘lifting up’ Jesus gets boring and causes ‘preacher burnout’, but as long as it’s ‘look at me’, they can go on forever.

Maybe that’s why we have less baptisms because the people don’t hear Jesus, and maybe because some preachers preach once a week instead of three times a week.

John Wallace said...

Billy Graham is my personal favorite but I suspect that history will dub Pope John Paul II.

Wade Burleson said...

The previous first comment in this post has been deleted. The alleged author contacted me and told me he did not write it, but someone posing as him. Shame on the person who misrepresented the truth, and I would encourage all to avoiod such behavior on the internet.

Frank (or Chip) said...

Churchill. One man, who by his will and leadership stood against a seemingly unstoppable wave of evil; holding on by his fingernails until the rest of the world decided to stand with him.

Stephen said...

My father. He was a great pastor and shepherd to his flock. Always on call to meet the needs of his church members. Unlike some pastors of today, he served his flock 24 x 7......rarely a time when he could not be contacted. I saw him on many occasions minister to the unheard of, abused, and neglected of the community. He is my hero.

Anonymous said...

Mother Teresa: fragile, very tiny woman, such a weak vessel, so filled with God's love for the poor. That contrast was so great, and so powerful. What an inspiration to the world for service to the least of His.

If you list a MAN: Gandhi, a non-Christian, who lived the Christian values of peaceful, non-violence. He led his home country of India to independence and inspired our own country to begin the Civil Rights Movement, and so to begin the long road towards our own moral healing as a nation.

Thy Peace said...

I already voted earlier.

Ideas flow freely across nations.

Example: Wikipedia: Civil Disobedience

Henry David Thoreau wrote about his in 1849. Though Gandhi later said, he had formed this idea independently, but only "borrowed" the term to explain to english readers. He preferred Civil Resistance.

My view is both the American and Indian (distinct from native american) cultural ideas were flowing freely for a long time in both directions.

Anonymous said...

Paige Patterson

Thy Peace said...

Dietrich Bonhoeffer wanted to go "badly" to India to see for himself, what Gandhi was doing.

I do not think he got that chance. Of course, he was caught up in resisting the Nazis. He was a very brave man.

Wikipedia: Dietrich Bonhoeffer

the hubbub bub? said...

I would cast my vote for MLK.

Wade Burleson said...

The previous first comment in this comment stream has been deleted. The alleged author contacted me and told me he did not write it, but someone posing as him. I would encourage all post only under right name and/or, and only your name and/or, not somebody elses.

David Robbins said...

Theologian - Barth (can't disagree with several Childs, Stott)
Preacher - Donald Barnhouse
Evangelist - Billy Graham
Missiologist - Avery Willis

At least that's what I think...

Anonymous said...

Is Mother Teresa in heaven?

Thy Peace said...

"Is Mother Teresa in heaven?

While Mother Teresa was here on earth, she was in heaven already.

Anonymous said...

Dietrich Bonhoeffer: a libersl

"He was among those who called for wider church resistance to Hitler's treatment of the Jews."

A liberal.
Like those who want the hatred of persecution of gays to stop in our own country. This persecution is defined by the perpetrators as 'Christian concern for famiy values'. Give me a break!
Hate, too thinly veiled, recognizable hate.

A liberal. Bonhoeffer?
Vilified. and eventually placed in a concentration camp and executed.

One less liberal in the world?
One more saint in heaven.

Chris said...


According to your post, one of the qualifiers for the honor was that it had to be a "century of the Christian era." But can the 20th Century really qualify as a part of the Christian era? What with the wide influence of Freud, Neitzche, and Marx (and then later Lyotard, Foucault, Rorty, and Derrida) the thought patterns of Western culture at large have been far from orthodox, evangelical Christian. Or an I reading in too much and Christian era simply refers to "since the church was founded"?


I don't know that the answer to that question is quite as insiduous as all that (but it could be). I think it is far more likely that because Protestantism came to be at the same time as the Enlightenment era and has developed largely through the course of Modernity we are just more comfortable with propositions. Paul and the OT are much more proposition heavy than the Gospels are. Therefore, they are easier to preach. It takes an entirely different mindset to look at the narratives of the Gospels and not pull out three propositions that should have been explicitely stated instead of going through all the trouble of telling the story.

However, I do agree with you that the reason the church isn't baptizing people anymore is because the aren't hearing Jesus. They are just hearing Paul's theological interpretation of Him, but it is hard to grasp and love an incarnational God when we never actually hear about the incarnation. It is even harder to let God become incarnate (loosely applied) within you when you aren't examing the life of the True Incarnation of God.

Rick said...

Eric Liddell, and he was even Anglican!

Thy Peace said...

Pastor Wade, I think you should have changed the wording to mean, the Greatest Person, instead of Greatest Man. You are not allowing 52% of the humans to be considered as the Greatest.

May be, in the future you will probably ask for the Greatest Woman.

I understand, you were going by what was being asked at the St. John the Divine Cathedral.

Pastor Mark said...

For me I would have to say Adrian Rogers.

He was decidedly a man of God, a dynamic preacher, church builder, statesman and mentor to thousands of pastors.

Three years after his death “Love worth finding” is continuing to broadcast his sermons all over the planet.

I met him on four different occasions; he was warm and gracious and as kind as any person I have ever met.

He would look you in the eyes….and the impression it left was that you were of high value to him. He modeled what a pastor should

1 A man after Gods own heart
2 A man of the word
3 A man who love his family and
4.A man who loved Gods people
5.A man who loved Southern Baptists

Anonymous said...

Rex Ray said "BTW, How did Paul outrank Jesus in the first Century?"

Easy one: St. Paul speaks OUR language. We can use his words to argue about who gets to go to heaven and who is damned to hell.

But Jesus? His Words can only be understood fully by the heart, not the mind. Our spirits feel the power of His Words. He speaks to our souls. He speaks to our consciences. He reaches into the inner most places of our pride and our sin with His Words. His Words convict and burn and sear and cauterize and heal and comfort and give great peace. Sometimes, we want to set Him aside, out of shame for how we have treated others. And the simplicity of His lessons? Lessons understood best by only the wisest among us: our young children. Ask a child to tell you about the Lamb of God: The first thing they will do is to smile. :)

Anonymous said...

Rex Ray said "BTW, How did Paul outrank Jesus in the first Century?"

Easy one: St. Paul speaks OUR language. We can use his words to argue about who gets to go to heaven and who is damned to hell.

But Jesus? His Words can only be understood fully by the heart, not the mind. Our spirits feel the power of His Words. He speaks to our souls. He speaks to our consciences. He reaches into the inner most places of our pride and our sin with His Words. His Words convict and burn and sear and cauterize and heal and comfort and give great peace. Sometimes, we want to set Him aside, out of shame for how we have treated others. And the simplicity of His lessons? Lessons understood best by only the wisest among us: our young children. Ask a child to tell you about the Lamb of God: The first thing they will do is to smile. :)

Anonymous said...

Good morning, Thy Peace

You wrote,

""Is Mother Teresa in heaven?

While Mother Teresa was here on earth, she was in heaven already."

In Ireland, it is said that there are holy places where the air 'thins' and the boundaries that separate us from His Presence are not so great as in most places. And if one seeks Him in these holy places, He comes to them quickly and abides with them.

Maybe there are places like that
in India.

I never understood how such a weak, tiny person as Mother could do so much, until I realized that she was just a vessel of His Love overflowing and pouring into the world.

Thy Peace said...

"Maybe there are places like that
in India. "

I am great fan of Celtic mythology and folklore. Also of Native American and Indian.

Sadly, it's not the "places".

It's in the heart. Once Jesus Christ is born in once heart and made a new creation, then the fruits exhibited by that person reveals the Kingdom of God within.

Anyway, that's my thinking. Places are passive, where as what happens in the heart is active.

Mother Teresa's heaven was exhibited in her service.

Anonymous said...

Pastor Mark said,

"For me I would have to say Adrian Rogers."

Well, I can tell you that Adrian Rogers' remarks have certainly made an impression on my wife!

Prof. Wimsey Dumbledorff

Benji Ramsaur said...

I think Reagan comes to mind first.

And as far as I can remember, I grew up favoring the democratic party.

Anonymous said...

Dear Thy Peace,

You said, "Places are passive"

and I understand. But it is the Lord who sometimes brings us to where we can receive His healing best:

"He maketh me to lie down in green pastures"
"He leadeth me beside the still waters, He restoreth my soul."

Once I felt His presence at night in the mountains near Flagstaff.
Six months later, I returned to that place, but I did not have the same experience. It was not the place. It was Him. It was myself.
It was a blessing. I will remember it always, and be grateful.

Years later, a friend from that part of the country told me that in another century, Indians used to go to those same mountains to pray.
They considered those mountains to be a holy place. Who knows? God is where He wants to be. We do know that there are 'places in the Heart' that only He can fill. L's

Thy Peace said...

Sorry, I missed the "Christian era" part of the question.

But if you look at the last three people selected at St. John the Divine Cathedral:

- William Shakespeare: There is lot of debate if it's one person or multiple person who comprised William Shakespeare. Or if he is real.

- George Washington: Questions about him being a Christian.

- Abraham Lincoln: Questions about him being a Christian.

Thy Peace said...


I know lot of Indians do pilgrimages to holy places. So do lot of Europeans. See how many visit the Holy Land in Israel - Jerusalem. Same with Muslims. Lot of Native Americans did this too. Same with Celtics. Same with Buddhists.

I think this behavior is universal in ALL cultures.

We try to find permanence in places of importance, to either [re]experience what happened at these places.

At least, for me it is. I find change so much in my life and outside of my life. And lot of times, I try to find solace in places that have not changed.

But I am trying to tell myself, that it's not the places where this is to be found, but in Jesus Christ, Our Lord. This is where the true permanence is to be found.

NOT KMC said...

Wade, and KMC,
My apologies for misrepresenting myself as Kevin in the first post -- I wasn't intending to defraud or cause any problems; I just thought it was funny and was confident Kevin would correct the record and there would be no harm. But I can see where it might offend him for others to think he said something nice about you, and I can see where it would concern you that people would misrepresent themselves on your blog. I'm sorry, and I won't do it again.

Robert I Masters said...

Seems like a double standard! Your response to this first poster and your response to me several articles back.
Maybe he took a que from your response to me in past posts?
No partiality please.

In Grace
Robert Masters

NativeVermonter said...

Upon further reflection, I propose a collective award for this past Century: To the Saints who have furthered the Gospel at the cost of their own blood.

The polls are now closed.

Pastor Bob Farmer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Native Vermonter said,

"Upon further reflection, I propose a collective award for this past Century: To the Saints who have furthered the Gospel at the cost of their own blood."

YES !!!
I agree, as long as we can include Dr. Klouda in this group. Because of the persecution and the corresponding economic hardship she endured: because she needed to support her ailing husband: she had to sell her own blood. That makes her a Christian martyr in my eyes.

Pastor Bob Farmer said...

Teddy Roosevelt, a man's man. Warrior, President, Adventurer, Husband, Father, Author and Calvinist! "walk softly and carry a big stick".

John Moeller said...

lets think outside the box...

Paul Crouch, for creating TBN...

It broadcasts Christianity into the homes of millions of people around the world and caused all Christian ministries to move into multi-media/Satellite/internet technologies...

I may not agree with everything TBN broadcasts, but it did change the way all of us "broadcast" the gospel.

Anonymous said...

Ouside of the Lord Jesus Christ in the first century no one is greatest.Some acheived more that others but if there were a greatest you would not know his name. It will be interesting to find out in heaven how many of these choices are there when the Book is opened. Want to br great read Matthew 18:4.
Jim Sadler

r. grannemann said...

In science Albert Einstein.

In religion Reinhold Niebuhr.

r. grannemann said...

In science Albert Einstein.

In religion Reinhold Niebuhr.

Robert I Masters said...

For his ministry in calling the church back to The faith once for all delivered to the saints.

In Grace
Robert I Masters

Bob Cleveland said...

Hey anonymous ... Paul didn't speak our language. I'm not sure English was even around, then.

Anonymous said...

Thy Peace,

You wrote: 'I try to find solace in places that have not changed.'

In eternity, we will find 'rest for our souls'.

In the meantime, I seek quiet, rustic places, where the animals far outnumber the people, and where I can hear the breezes and the movement of water. In such solitude, and I am able to follow the command of the Holy One to



P.S. These places are fast disappearing and sadly, soon may be gone, I think. :(

B Nettles said...

Before reading the comments I settled on Winston Churchill for the sheer scope of his service to general political freedom during 2 WW's and the courage to make difficult, almost damning, decisions during WW II (the Enigma stories...read Bodyguard of Lies and A Man Called Intrepid).

With Churchill not being a strong man of faith, I also thought of Billy Graham for time and distance of a consistent ministry.

John Paul II and Mother Teresa? Don't think an Anglican church is going to install them, but "one never knows, does one?"

I'm very surprised that William Wilberforce didn't make the 18th or 19th century spot, but maybe the focus of "greatness" shifted to American leaders. And if women were chosen, Queen Victoria would certainly capture the 19th century.

Anonymous said...

Bob Cleveland said

"Paul didn't speak our language. I'm not sure English was even around, then."

Well, not as we speak it, no. English is an amalgam of Latin, some Greek, Celtic, Anglo-Saxon dialects, Scandinavian, French, I'm sure I've left something out.

The British Isles were home to the Celts and Britons, Roman soldiers invaded and stayed in England for about 400 years, enriching the language; then came the Anglo-Saxon warriors: from Germany, bringing the weird spellings in so many anglicized words. At this point, Britain was renamed
'Angle Land: the land of the Ango-Saxons' which soon shortened to 'England'. The Viking invasions came bringing Scandinavian terms like 'hand' and 'arm' and the names of our days after their Norse 'gods':
"Tiu's Day' ; 'Woden's Day' ;
Thor's Day ; Freya's Day' ;
and then there were the French: Norman conquerors bringing in French terms like 'government' and 'reign' and 'sovereign'.

And so, we have this rich language: the Brit's colonized America and brought with them their language of 'English'.

I wish Dr. Klouda was here to tell us about the language of Paul. L's

Wanda said...

Pastor Mark said...

"For me I would have to say Adrian Rogers."

Adrian Rogers would be very high on my list as well. I began listening to his sermons through Love Worth Finding two decades ago, and they transformed my life. I still listen to him on the radio, and whenever I hear his voice it warms my heart.

Anonymous said...

Jerry Falwell

Anonymous said...

George W. Bush.

Thy Peace said...

Wikipedia: 20th century

Anonymous said...

Jerry Falwell?

Jerry Falwell launched on the warpath against civil rights four years after the Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education decision to desegregate public schools with a sermon titled

Segregation or Integration: Which?

"If Chief Justice Warren and his associates had known God's word and had desired to do the Lord's will, I am quite confident that the 1954 decision would never have been made," Falwell boomed from above his congregation in Lynchburg. "The facilities should be separate. When God has drawn a line of distinction, we should not attempt to cross that line."

Wanda said...

To Whom It May Concern:

If you are going to nominiate the likes of Paige Patterson and Jerry Falwell, at least have the courage to sign your first name.

Anonymous said...

Adrain Rogers or Jerry Falwell could be on my "long" list, but not my short one. I liked them sincerely.

One problem is that Adrian said "reformed theology" was heresy even before Falwell said it.

That's a shame indeed. But they know differently now.

God bless them nonetheless.

On a side note, I couldn't vote for Ghandi. He walked around barefooted all the time and due to his meager diet he was weak and thin. In fact, the strict diet of certain herbs and spices contributed to even very bad breath for him. Furthermore, he had an affection for the "spirit world".

So you could say he was a "super calloused fragile mystic hexed with halitosis."


I had to work for that one, but it was fun.


Anonymous said...

Rosa Parks is my favorite:
another example of courage in the face of insanity

Anonymous said...

Pastor John Hagee

Anonymous said...

I nominate
Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu:
in religion, Mother Teresa
Now, called
Blessed Teresa of Calcutta

Lin said...

My vote is for Whittaker Chambers who wrote "Witness". Best book (his writing is excellent, too) of the 20th Century and a must read for students of US history.

He was a Communist in the underground who became a Christian.

Karen in OK said...

A very strong candidate would be Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

Anonymous said...


"Lord, give us righteous judges who will not try to legislate and dominate this society. Take control, Lord! We ask for additional vacancies on the court." –Pat Robertson

Thy Peace said...

Off topic:

Please check this wonderful article by Cheryl Schatz:

Anne Graham Lotz and 800 pastors’ shame

Anonymous said...


Most creative award goes to you.

Great idea on nominating Chambers.

Everyone who reads this blog should have read "Witness."

I am sure you know Chamber's most well-known contribution to English literature?

The translation of "Bambi", from Danish or German into English.


Anonymous said...

Every time he spoke, I heard that Muhammed Ali was the greatest. Put him up on the wall!

Lin said...

"I am sure you know Chamber's most well-known contribution to English literature?

The translation of "Bambi", from Danish or German into English."

Yes! When he broke with the communist underground, his entire family was in danger and he had no income. He was able to secure this translation job while hiding his family in a shack on Symrna beach in Fla. He wrote at night, while his family was asleep, with a gun by his side.

Anonymous said...

It is interesting to see who is taking part in this, and who is not.


Anonymous said...

Jay Vivian Chambers????

A man opposed to the New Deal and opposed to Social Security.

NOW I understand why this man is a hero to the Republican Party. If he could have done it, there would never have been any Social Security program. As it is, Bush and cronies have done all they could to try to get it privatized: which means 'into the stock market' and you know what happened there.

of the 20th Century ?

only for the far-far-far right.

Anonymous said...

Ray said

"My vote would be Martin Luther King Jr. We might be seeing part of his legacy continued on November 4. "

"I have a dream" will become
"the dream unfolds" and the long nightmare for so many will begin to be over. Thank God for this.

Anonymous said...

Slim wrote:
"So you could say he was a "super calloused fragile mystic hexed with halitosis."

Slim, were you typing with your toes while brushing your teeth???

Anonymous said...

"Slim, were you typing with your toes while brushing your teeth???"

I have no idea what that means. Dumb it down for me and perhaps I'll get it.

In the meantime, if you need help with "super calloused fragile mystic hexed with halitosis"...think "My Fair Lady".

Even though the sound of it is really quite atrocious.

I think you'll get it.



Anonymous said...

I vote for Francis Schaeffer

Anonymous said...

Athanasius put forward the belief that the Son of God, the eternal Word through whom God created the world, entered that world in human form to lead men back into the harmony from which they had earlier fallen away.

Anonymous said...


"According to church tradition Justin suffered martyrdom at Rome under the Emperor Marcus Aurelius when Junius Rusticus was prefect of the city (between 162 and 168). He called himself a Samaritan, but his father and grandfather were probably Greek or Roman, and he was brought up a pagan. It seems that St Justin had property, studied philosophy, converted to Christianity, and devoted the rest of his life to teaching what he considered the true philosophy, still wearing his philosopher's gown to indicate that he had attained the truth. He probably traveled widely and ultimately settled in Rome as a Christian teacher."

Thy Peace said...

"In the meantime, if you need help with "super calloused fragile mystic hexed with halitosis"...think "My Fair Lady"."

Mary Poppins


Anonymous said...


"In Roman Catholic Church and the Anglican Communion, he is a saint and pre-eminent Doctor of the Church, and the patron of the Augustinian religious order; his memorial is celebrated 28 August. Many Protestants, especially Calvinists, consider him to be one of the theological fathers of Reformation teaching on salvation and divine grace. In the Eastern Orthodox Church he is blessed, and his feast day is celebrated on 15 June, though a minority are of the opinion that he is a heretic, primarily because of his statements concerning what became known as the filioque clause. Among the Orthodox he is called Blessed Augustine, or St. Augustine the Blessed.

Anonymous said...


"“with his life and work, St. Benedict exercised a fundamental influence on the development of European civilization and culture” and helped Europe to emerge from the "dark night of history" that followed the fall of the Roman empire."

Anonymous said...


"It was less as an administrator, or an organizer, than as a man of saintly life and of oratorical gifts famous throughout the Eastern Church, that Gregory was asked, and consented, to undertake his difficult mission; and he had to exercise those gifts in combating not one but numerous heresies which had been dividing and desolating Constantinople for many years. Arianism in every form and degree, incipient, moderate, and extreme, was of course the great enemy,"

Anonymous said...

(known as Charles 'the Hammer')

"”The battle of Tours, or Poitiers, as it should be called, is regarded as one of the decisive battles of the world. It decided that Christians, and not Moslems, should be the ruling power in Europe. Charles Martel is especially celebrated as the hero of this battle.”

Anonymous said...


"Today he is regarded not only as the founding father of both French and German monarchies, but also as the father of Europe: his empire united most of Western Europe for the first time since the Romans, and the Carolingian renaissance encouraged the formation of a common European identity.[1] Pierre Riché reflects:

“ . . . he enjoyed an exceptional destiny, and by the length of his reign, by his conquests, legislation and legendary stature, he also profoundly marked the history of western Europe "

Anonymous said...


"king of the southern Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Wessex from 871 to 899. Alfred is noted for his defence of the kingdom against the Danish Vikings, becoming the only English King to be awarded the epithet "the Great".[1] Alfred was the first King of the West Saxons to style himself "King of the English". Details of his life are discussed in a work by the Welsh scholar Asser. Alfred was a learned man, and encouraged education and improved his kingdom's law system as well as its military structure."

Anonymous said...


"It was in Jerusalem that the legend of Godfrey of Bouillon was born. The army reached the city in June 1099 and built wooden ladders to climb over the walls. The major attack took place on July 14 and 15, 1099. Godfrey and some of his knights were the first to get over the walls and enter the city. Once inside, the Crusaders killed many of the city's inhabitants; at the time, it was common practice with any captured city. It was an end to three years of fighting by the Crusaders, but they had finally done what they had set out to do in 1096—namely, to recapture the Holy Land and, in particular, the city of Jerusalem and its holy sites, such as the Holy Sepulchre, the tomb of Jesus Christ."

Anonymous said...


"The Last of the Fathers." Bernard did not reject human philosophy which is genuine philosophy, which leads to God; he differentiates different kind of knowledge, the highest being theological.'

Anonymous said...


"He spent much time in lonely places, asking God for enlightenment. By degrees he took to nursing lepers, the most repulsive victims in the lazar houses near Assisi. After a pilgrimage to Rome, where he begged at the church doors for the poor, he said he had had a mystical vision of Jesus Christ in the Church of San Damiano just outside of Assisi, in which the Icon of Christ Crucified came alive and said to him three times, "Francis, Francis, go and repair My house which, as you can see, is falling into ruins".

Anonymous said...


"Wycliffe was an early advocate for translation of the Bible directly from the Vulgate into vernacular English in the year 1382, now known as the Wycliffe Bible. It is believed that he personally translated the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; and it is possible he translated the entire New Testament, while his associates translated the Old Testament. Wycliff's Bible appears to have been completed by 1384, with additional updated versions being done by Wycliffe's assistant John Purvey and others in 1388 and 1395"

Lin said...

Jay Vivian Chambers????

A man opposed to the New Deal and opposed to Social Security.

NOW I understand why this man is a hero to the Republican Party. If he could have done it, there would never have been any Social Security program. As it is, Bush and cronies have done all they could to try to get it privatized: which means 'into the stock market' and you know what happened there.

of the 20th Century ?

only for the far-far-far right.

Fri Oct 24, 07:15:00 PM 2008

Chambers said when he broke with communism that he was leaving the winning side for the losing side.

He was right in many respects. Remember, his role in the underground was as a go between for communists who had infiltrated our government at very high levels. Now we have terrorists like Bill Ayers masquerading as education experts and teaching in our universities when he is unrepentent and says he should have done more bombing. That is now the norm.

Anon, do you know who Henry Wallace was? That is how bad it got...and democrats in the Senate had to tell FDR they would not support him unless he ditched Wallace.

Anonymous said...


"During Cranmer's tenure as archbishop, he was responsible for establishing the first doctrinal and liturgical structures of the Church of England.
He wrote and compiled the first two editions of the Book of Common Prayer, a complete liturgy for the English Church.
Cranmer was tried for treason and heresy when Mary I came to the throne. Imprisoned for over two years and under pressure from the Church authorities, he made several recantations and reconciled himself with the Catholic faith. However, on the day of his execution, he dramatically withdrew his recantations and died as a Protestant martyr. His legacy lives on within the Church of England through the Book of Common Prayer and the Thirty-Nine Articles, an Anglican statement of faith derived from his work.

Anonymous said...

Lin said "Now we have terrorists like Bill Ayers masquerading as education experts and teaching in our universities when he is unrepentent and says he should have done more bombing."

Who wuz it said 'bomb, bomb, bomb,
bomb-bomb Iran'?

AND THE BEAT GOES ON . . . . . .

Anonymous said...

"Internal reviews by The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time magazine, The Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The New Republic "have said that their reporting does not support the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship".

William C. Ibershof, the lead federal prosecutor of the Weather Underground case noted, "I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child."

Anonymous said...

I nominate Rush Limbaugh

Anonymous said...


CRITERIA: great, Christian, twentieth century (1900-1999),

CANDIDATES: Billy Graham, Mother Teresa


S U B O R D I N A T I O N ????

Anonymous said...

"Slim, were you typing with your toes while brushing your teeth???"

I have no idea what that means. Dumb it down for me and perhaps I'll get it.

Slim, were you typing with your teeth while brushing your feet?

It's okay to dish it out, but some people just can't take it. Are we there yet?

Anonymous said...


Winston Churchill's 'We shall never surrender" was all that stood against Hitler. At least for almost a century we have not had to live under Nazism, thanks to Churchill. Until now.

The Nazis are back. They are waiting: For the coming of the so-called "Christian Nation".
Who will be our Churchill in THIS century?

Anonymous said...

And WHO will be this century's Hitler?

Thy Peace said...

"And WHO will be this century's Hitler?"


Yes, RFID devices. They will soon implant them in our bodies. Some companies already do this as part of employment.

Sad. Very sad.

Thy Peace said...

I streched the "WHO" there, but it fits.

Thy Peace said...

We are getting very close to 666.

God have mercy on us.

Anonymous said...

Slim, were you typing with your teeth while brushing your feet?

It's okay to dish it out, but some people just can't take it. Are we there yet?"

Dumb it down more please.

I don't if I can "take" what you are saying or not. You see, I have no idea what you are talking about.

As far as "dishing" it. It's a joke! See Thy Peace's wiki link above. Maybe that will help.

In the meantime, my feet and teeth are squeaky clean! :)


Rex Ray said...

Thanks for mentioning Archbishop Thomas Cranmer.

He recanted for signing a creed. (I hope none of our missionaries feel as bad as him.)

He held his signature hand closer to the fire so it burned first.

Legalistic authority had dictated new doctrine like leaders today…nitpicking over controversial doctrinal issues.

No wonder Jesus said, “…beware of teachers of religion.” (Mark 12:38 Living)

Anna A said...

Though their names have been mentioned earlier, I'm still sharing my opinion.

Winston Churchill and Mother Teresa of Calcutta

Anonymous said...

With all the 'choices' to pick from, and some of the 'less prominent' choices showing up,
I thought it would be a good idea to look at some of the characteristics of those on the original list of 'greatest' from past centuries to see what the reason might be for THEIR selections.

Cranmer was burned at the stake by Mary Tudor. Elizabeth the First also burned many 'martyrs', actually many more.

Today's martyrs are 'burned' in other ways: but they are still burned. The recent 'firings' (excuse the pun) of missionaries and others prove the point.

Someday, the Light will overcome the darkness of these 'firings'.

In the meantime, look for HONORABLE, ETHICAL integrity in those you choose for leadership. Will we be 'burned' if we stand up for what is just? You can COUNT ON IT. Don't forget, the Dominionists are biding their time. Fires will rage throughout what is left of our nation when THEY rule. We still have to stand up to keep our souls.

Anonymous said...

"An RFID tag is an object that can be applied to or incorporated into a product, animal, or person for the purpose of identification and tracking using radio waves. Some tags can be read from several meters away and beyond the line of sight of the reader."

Anonymous said...


Thy Peace said...

Wikipedia: Thomas Cranmer

Cranmer had three more days to live. He was told that he would be able to make a final recantation but this time in public during a service at the University Church. He wrote and submitted the speech in advance and it was published after his death. At the pulpit on the day of his execution, he opened with a prayer and an exhortation to obey the king and queen, but he ended his sermon totally unexpectedly, deviating from the prepared script. He renounced the recantations that he had written or signed with his own hand since his degradation and as such he stated his hand would be punished by being burnt first. He then said, "And as for the pope, I refuse him, as Christ's enemy, and Antichrist with all his false doctrine." He was pulled from the pulpit and taken to where Latimer and Ridley had been burnt six months before. As the flames drew around him, he fulfilled his promise by placing his right hand into the heart of the fire and his dying words were, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit... I see the heavens open and Jesus standing at the right hand of God."

Thy Peace said...

RFID and Workplace Privacy

Thanks to Anon 10:29am

Jesse said...

First choice for greates man is Winston Churchill. But greatest Christian man would be either Bonhoeffer or Graham.

lin - I can't believe you are laying the blame for the current stock crisis at the feet of republicans. It was the liberals' (read Socialist) insistence on bad home mortgage lending practices which led to our current economic debacle. Check the Congressional record for who tried to rein it and who opposed the reining in. While we're on conspiracy theories, the horrendous energy costs were, IMHO, engineered by liberals. Now there's a conspiracy theory for you!


Anonymous said...

Thanks, Thy Peace,
for the details of Wikipedia.

This man's martyrdom is mirrored in the refusal of the seventy-seven missionaries to sign the
2000 BF&M , thus effectively ending their chances to work in the field for the SBC. I'm sure that the Good Lord has rehired them elsewhere for His service. And I'm very sure He will hold to account those who tormented them.

A 'smaller death' or 'less painful'? I rather think that they must have suffered much but they came out of it intact with their souls. As did Cranmer, when he obeyed his conscience at very great cost. That's honorable integrity. Would that more such people could be found in the SBC.

Anonymous said...

Was it the libs who worked so hard for deregulation?

I smell a FOX. Or is it just another breath of 'fresh' air from Limbaugh?

Take another look at the history of deregulation: start with Reagan and the Savings and Loans fiasco (Keating Five). Look at the entire history: Greenspan AND McCain's economic guru from Texas.
Don't be out FOXED. Get educated before you put yourself out there on a blog read by the public.

So like the 'right wing' to blame the ignorant poor for the greediness of others. Wanting people to have a chance is not the same as condoning the theft of the retirement accounts of the middle class. Greenspan recently said that he was 'surprised and shocked' that his philosophy had not worked. And what of the tax policies where the profits DIDN'T tricke down, this time? People are out of work: their jobs are gone. And they are VOTING the culprits out of office bigtime. If you want to get a real education about what is going on: try C-SPAN and get the goods fresh, not the spin from the usual suspects. The people have already awakened. They are not 'libs', they just want their country back.

Anonymous said...

I read the list and wondered at the criteria, thought I suppose it's arrogance to judge people of an earlier time by our present-day standards. Especially since King David was said to be a man after God's own heart and he certainly had his flaws.

Some were good religious leaders - saints - others military or political leaders, then Columbus and Shakespeare, who don't fit either category but one must consider what they did great. It does seem obvious that these have been considered great by many, even though some of them do not fit the Matthew 18:4 criteria mentioned here.

I wonder at Paul rather than Jesus unless they were leaving out Jesus to differentiate Him from those who are only human, and not also divine.

I will agree that any of those on their list could be called great, though I'm not sure my list would be the same. For one thing, I find it hard to choose just one person from such artificial categories as centuries when there are many that could qualify as great in any time. And there might be two or more hard to choose from in one such time period and in the next be faced with no one who comes close to their stature. I rather like the idea that Time's person of the year is sometimes a group.

As for the nominations of my fellow commenters, while agreeing with some on the greatness of their nominees, I was torn between laughter and stunned amazement, almost horror at some of those proposed, knowing some were probably serious. I do hope at least Rush Limbaugh's name was a joke. I could say the same about several others but I don't want to be blasted out of here so I won't name any more such names.

My thoughts? I am going to guess they will choose Churchill, for reasons mentioned and because I sense that is the way their list is going. I would nominate Billy Graham or Mother Theresa or Martin Luther King, possibly others I will think of right after I send this comment. Gandhi is another, but I sense their list, as another has said, is westocentric (is that a word?) so he isn't likely to make it.


Anonymous said...


You telling me the Oil people are liberals? All those Texans, and Bushes, and all their cronies are liberals. Oh . . . where do they get this stuff ???


Anonymous said...

I have seen some interesting suggestions for great historical figures.

But isn't the nominee supposed to have lived in the 20th Century?

Isn't that the point?

Also, I have seen some criticisms of other people's choices.

It's much more appealing to nominate a 20th Century figure, than to pick at other people's choices, especially with half-baked comments.


Anonymous said...

I have come to the conclusion that I am to conflicted to come up with "the" name.

There are so many great suggestions here. There are too many fields, to many different types of contributions, and we have only scratched the surface since most, though not all, of the suggestions are from our Anglo-American orbit.

This has been a really positive exchange (for the most part). It is neat seeing the different names mentioned.


Thy Peace said...

Some may wonder the definition of the adjective "greatest," but without going into specifics of the criteria for the word, ,I would simply like you to answer with the name of the first man that comes to mind when you are asked the following:

Who, in your opinion, was the greatest man to live in the 20th Century?"

Anonymous said...

Miep Gies currently lives in the Dutch province of Noord-Holland

Anonymous said...

I would like to nominate Miep Gies.

She can serve as a representative for the many Christians who are listed on the Avenue of the Righteous. These Christians saved many Jews from extermination, at the risk of their own lives.

"Greater love hath no man ...."

Why Miep Gies? She is known by many as the one who helped Anne Frank's family and saved Anne's diary to give to Anne's father, Otto Frank.

Without Miep, Anne's voice would never have been heard.

If you watch the movie, 'Freedom Writers', you can learn about Miep Gies.

She represents so many true Christians in the 20th Century. They deserve to be recognized by Christians and well as Jews.

I vote for Miep Gies.
To stand for those on the Avenue of the Righteous.

Miep Gies currently lives in the Dutch province of Noord-Holland.

Anonymous said...

I vote for John R. Rice. A sound theologian, great preacher, fervent soul winner, and humble servant of Christ.

Dr. Jim Roebuck

Anonymous said...

How many Jews in this country today are alive because of those on The Avenue of The Righteous?

That would include the Jews who were saved and ALL of their descendants.

I wonder how many people were saved in ALL by these TRUE Christians?

Just 'good works', meaning nothing?
Don't tell that to someone who is alive today because of those 'good works'.

'Greater LOVE hath no man . . "

Anonymous said...

Good Works OR FAITH???

Some people's good works ARE their testament of faith in the Lord.

Anonymous said...

How do you define
'greatest Christian' ?

Anonymous said...

The really interesting thing to me was the 'long list' I had, how I worked through it, and why I chose the person I chose.

It told me a lot about who I am and what I really value in others.

Anonymous said...

To the comment about people "voting the culprits out of office": not likely. At least two reasons:

Those who want to stay in office manage to convince some voters that some things - that are not likely to change no matter who is elected - are the most important things and you have one-issue voters.

Also there have been questions about the last two presidential elections and already there are reports of voting machines changing people's votes - fortunately in some cases the voters recognized what happened and complained, but one wonders what happened to the votes that were switched, whether they were also counted. This is besides the whole issue of machines which provide no paper record of votes that can be checked. We've all heard of computer hackers, but what if the machines themselves are programmed to give specific results no matter the expected input. At least one voting machine manufacturer is a big donor to one party (the one that provided our current two-term president). At least in Oklahoma we have a paper trail and I hope that won't change.


Anonymous said...


Miep Gies is a great nomination.

I have to admit that I know the profile, but not the person.

BTW, are there 2 or 3 Anons on this thread? Maybe you guys could come up with some fun moniker so we can distinguish.

L's Gran did this. She was using about 4 or 5 different names, and it got really confusing. She finally settled on L's Gran, so now we know with whom we are talking.

Hey, you could be "Friend of Miep" or something like that.


Anonymous said...

Jim Roebuck:

John R. Rice is an interesting suggestion.

He was a very sweet man. I heard him preach once, and I met some of his children.

I believe it was Dallas Willard (sp?) on a page at the beginning of one of his books who placed at the top of the page, "In those days there were giants in the land", and then listed several men whom most people today would not know. John R. Rice was on that list. So was Lee Roberson, another great independent Baptist preacher.

I have to say that much of the cultural emphasis of these men was an unhelpful distraction to the church, in my opinion. And that has severely hurt the independent Baptist movement.

On the other hand, the independent Baptist movement provided some of the most faith filled preachers of the 20th Century. They bucked the theologically liberal tide of the 1920-1950 that hurt many denominations. They influenced the public and held a high standard for the Bible's truth.

Their contributions are much overlooked today.


Anonymous said...

This is slightly off-topic concerning multiple anonymous commentators, but why not use the Name/URL feature instead of signing your name at the bottom (I mean, pick some moniker that's unique; it doesn't have to be real, and don't put an URL)? And anyone who just speaks anonymously with no name should not necessarily expect a response. I do not think that is asking too much.

Byroniac said...

SORRY! that was me...

This is slightly off-topic concerning multiple anonymous commentators, but why not use the Name/URL feature instead of signing your name at the bottom (I mean, pick some moniker that's unique; it doesn't have to be real, and don't put an URL)? And anyone who just speaks anonymously with no name should not necessarily expect a response. I do not think that is asking too much.

Anonymous said...

How about anonymous for greatest man of the 20th century?

Not you Byron! :)

I, like Louis, enjoy reading everyone's nominees. It's making me think through it. I like that.

On a side note, the criteria is so simple that is being missed by many.

Several nominees for this "20th century" man did not live in the 20th century.

Several nominees for this 20th century "man" are not actually men.

I still like my nominee of Einstein. I also didn't even know that TIME had him on their list as well. Go me!

If we are going to include heathens, should we actually consider Hitler?




Wanda said...

Anonymous said...
"This is slightly off-topic concerning multiple anonymous commentators, but why not use the Name/URL feature instead of signing your name at the bottom (I mean, pick some moniker that's unique; it doesn't have to be real, and don't put an URL)?"

Great advice Anonymous! So what's your handle?

I'm brave enough to use my real first name. Why are some who post here so fearful? It really makes me wonder. Are you afraid that Big Brother in the SBC may be spying on you?

Anonymous said...

Einstein is a good choice.
Our modern technology flows from his genius.


Anonymous said...

Slim said,
"If we are going to include heathens, should we actually consider Hitler?"

Say you didn't mean this.

Anonymous said...

What's worse, the real Hitler, or
Hitler wannabe's posing as 'Christians'?

Byroniac said...

I thought about Einstein too, but he was not a Christian. But another good scientist candidate in my opinion would be Nikola Tesla, who fascinates me (I want to study his work more).

Benji Ramsaur said...

As far as the greatest "preacher", I think it was Lloyd-Jones.

Anonymous said...

Tesla is a genius.
Was any of his work based on Einstein's theories?

Anonymous said...

Tesla is a good choice, Byroniac.

Look at this from Wikipedia:

"Tesla is often described as the most important scientist and inventor of the modern age, a man who "shed light over the face of Earth".[3] He is best known for many revolutionary contributions in the field of electricity and magnetism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Tesla's patents and theoretical work formed the basis of modern alternating current electric power (AC) systems, including the polyphase power distribution systems and the AC motor, with which he helped usher in the Second Industrial Revolution. Contemporary biographers of Tesla have regarded him as "The Father of Physics", "The man who invented the twentieth century"[4] and "the patron saint of modern electricity."[5]"

It is sad that he died not being recognized for his genius.

Thy Peace said...

Off topic

Please check these two blog posts:

The Hope Blog: Christian Weddings and the Bridezilla Phenomenon

Reformed SHEology: Bridezillas Beware!

Jerald said...

How about someone still living - Liu Zhenying, aka Brother Yun?

NativeVermonter said...

Not to be rude but I don't usually read anonymous comments. If you can't "man-up," then it really isn't worth my time.

Anonymous said...

Herschel Hobbs "Mr. Baptist" is my choice. He was booed off of the stage by the fundamentalists.

1967 -- Seminary Doctoral student Paige Patterson and Judge Paul Pressler met at Cafe du Monde in New Orleans and discussed a long term strategy for fundamentalist domination of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC).

1974 -- Baptist Faith and Message Fellowship identified inerrancy as the issue to be used in their struggle against moderates in the SBC.

1979 -- Patterson, Pressler and others ran a "get out the vote" campaign in 15 states prior to the Convention, urging a defeat of the moderates in the SBC. Voters were bussed to the convention in mass numbers but left after the vote for president. Fundamentalist pastor Adrian Rogers was elected president.

1980 -- Judge Pressler publicly announced the strategy of the fundamentalist takeover, which was to elect the SBC president a sufficient number of times to gain a fundamentalist majority on the boards and agencies of the Convention. This was to be accomplished through the president's power to make appointments. Fundamentalists successfully elected all presidents of the SBC from 1979 to the present.

1985 -- SBC formed a Peace Committee to investigate the growing conflict and make recommendations for conflict resolution. Dominated by fundamentalists the committee failed to approach reconciliation. Cecil Sherman resigned from the committee in 1985, followed by Winfred Moore in 1986 because he did not feel he could participate in a "police committee."

1986 -- Home Mission Board (HMB) trustees became controlled by fundamentalists. Trustees barred women from receiving pastoral assistance in mission churches supported by HMB. Seminary presidents attempted peace in the "Glorietta statement" but to no avail.

1987 -- Peace Committee report was adopted, recommending that hiring practices of boards and agencies reflect "the most commonly held beliefs" in the denomination. Moderates charged that creedalism became official SBC policy through this action. Southeastern Board of Trustees became controlled by fundamentalists. They took the faculty out of the process for hiring new instructors, and placed this power solely in the hands of the president, who used the Peace Committee document as a doctrinal guide for hiring. President of Southeastern Seminary, Randall Lolley, resigned in protest. HMB voted to forbid missionary appointment to persons who speak in tongues and divorced persons, unless the divorce fell within strict guidelines.

1988 -- HMB used the Peace Committee report to enforce creedalism in hiring practices. SBC meeting in San Antonio passed a resolution elevating strong pastoral authority and denigrating the priesthood of all believers by a vote of 10,950 to 9,050. Richard Land, a fundamentalist leader, became President of the Christian Life Commission. Foreign Mission Board (FMB) fired moderate missionary Michael Willett after a fundamentalist missionary reported on Willett's opinions.

1989 -- Fundamentalist leaders gave the Christian Life Commission greater responsibility for dealing with church and state issues in order to circumvent working with the more moderate Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs.

1990 -- Southern Seminary Board of Trustees became controlled by fundamentalists. Trustees gave students permission to openly tape classes. Trustee Jerry Johnson of Colorado accused Southern Seminary President Roy Honeycutt and many faculty of heresy. Baptist Press editors Al Shackleford and Dan Martin were fired by the SBC Executive Committee due to their reporting on the fundamentalist takeover effort and their refusal to cease writing such stories. Associated Baptist Press was formed in order to maintain a free press for Baptist news. Daniel Vestal called a national level meeting of moderate Baptists in Atlanta. 3,000 people showed up and vowed to meet again the following year. This was the birth of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (CBF).

1991 -- Southeastern Seminary published a new statement of purpose and the doctrine of inerrancy became official policy. Moderate Sunday School Board President Lloyd Elder was forced to resign due to a hostile board of trustees. Fundamentalist leader Jimmy Draper became President of the Sunday School Board. FMB voted to defund Rushlikon Seminary in Europe because of moderate professors. 6,000 Baptists in Atlanta formally organized the CBF. Moderates no longer offered an alternative candidate for President of the SBC.

1992 -- Paige Patterson became President of Southeastern Seminary. Career missionary and President of the FMB, Keith Parks, resigned in protest against a hostile fundamentalist board of trustees. Parks became missions director for the CBF.

1993 -- President of Southern Seminary, Roy Honeycutt, resigned due to a hostile fundamentalist board of trustees. Al Mohler, a leading fundamentalist, became President of Southern Seminary. SBC voted to cease giving funds to the Baptist Joint Committee for Public Affairs because it would not cooperate with the fundamentalist agenda to restore publicly-led prayer in schools, government vouchers to attend religious schools and other right wing political and religious goals. Fundamentalists attempted to refuse seating for messengers from the church where President Clinton had his church membership. SBC affirmed a report critical of membership in Freemasons. Gary Leazer was fired from the HMB for explaining the meaning of that vote to Masons at a Masonic meeting.

1994 -- SBC Executive Committee leaders commanded SBC Seminaries to cease hosting booths at CBF meetings. Moderate Professor Molly Marshall was forced to resign from Southern Seminary. A hostile board of fundamentalist trustees at Southwestern Seminary fired President Russell Dilday and changed the locks on his office. SBC meeting in Orlando voted to refuse CBF funds designated for missionaries and other SBC agencies. SBC Executive Committee requested that State Conventions cut all ties to CBF.

1995 -- Diana Garland was fired as Dean of Carver School of Social work by seminary president A1 Mohler. FMB President Jerry Rankin sent a letter to 40,000 pastors and Women's Missionary Union (WMU) Directors urging them to pray that the National WMU would cease cooperating with the CBF. John Jackson, chairman of the Board of Trustees for the FMB, compared the WMU's cooperation with the CBF with the acts of an adulterous woman.

1996 -- Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia formed into a rival state convention in protest of the moderate nature of the existing state convention which cooperated with the CBF and other moderate Baptists. Southwestern Seminary president Ken Hemphill canceled an edition of its theological journal and the editor, Jeff B. Poole, was removed from teaching.

1997 -- Carver School of Social Work was cut from the curriculum at Southern Seminary and transferred to another college. Paul Debusman, librarian at Southern for 35 years, was fired over the content of a personal letter to Tom Ellif, the SBC President. New Orleans seminary withdrew invitations to teach from two adjunct instructors due to their ties with the CBF. The 1997 SBC meeting in Dallas called for a boycott of Disney Company and related companies because of immorality in movies and business policies friendly to homosexuals.

1998 -- Jerry Falwell attended SBC as a messenger for the first time and identified SBC seminaries as fundamentalist. Fundamentalist Baptists in Texas formed Southern Baptists of Texas to serve as a rival state convention in protest against the Baptist General Convention of Texas. SBC passed a new article on the family as an amendment to the Baptist Faith and Message statement of 1963. The amendment emphasized female submission to the husband. Paige Patterson, early leader of the fundamentalist takeover, was elected President of the SBC.

1999 -- Southwestern Seminary professors Alan Brehm and Dan Kent resigned after the seminary required faculty to sign off on the SBC amendment of the Baptist Faith and Message which emphasized female submission. SBC Messengers commissioned a panel to reexamine the Baptist Faith and Message Statement with a view toward revising it to reflect unambiguous fundamentalist language.

2000 - SBC approved a new Baptist Faith and Message which elevated the Bible above Christ, failed to safeguard Baptist distinctives of soul liberty and priesthood of the believer, and violated local-church autonomy by stating that the office of pastor must be limited to men. Former President Jimmy Carter left the Southern Baptist Convention. Texas Baptists approved a proposal to reduce SBC funding.

2001 - South Main of Houston severed ties with the SBC. Two professors at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary refused to sign the new Baptist Faith and Message and lost their jobs. Former President Jimmy Carter urged estranged moderates to forget the conservative-led Southern Baptist Convention and form new partnerships to advance traditional Baptist views. Registrations numbered 5,100 at the annual CBF Convention in Atlanta, a new record. Fundamentalists in Texas held their convention at the same time as the BGCT annual convention which was peaceful and without controversy (only about 50 votes in favor of the new Baptist Faith and Message out of the thousands that attended).

2002 - Texas Baptists established a rescue fund for disenfranchised SBC missionaries.

Anonymous said...

Don't ever waste your time.

Anonymous said...

Herschel Hobbs

" The messengers refused to hear an explanation about the Broadman Bible Commentary from the head of the Sunday School Board. Messengers actually booed Herschel H. Hobbs, the respected elder statesman and former president of the SBC, when he urged restraint

Also coming out of the 1979 Houston Convention was a well organized political campaign, using precinct style politics, to wrest control of the SBC. Judge Pressler and theologian Patterson directed the affairs of the 1979 meeting from sky boxes high above the Astrodome where the SBC was meeting."

Jesse said...

I retract my earlier suggestion of Graham and Bonhoeffer and replace Graham with A.W. Tozer.

Of course, those liberal oil barons will probably suggest dubya.

Steve said...

I haven't seen this many "anonymous'es" since the time I looked over the register at a Washington D. C. hotel!

Wanda said...

Anonymous said...
"Herschel Hobbs "Mr. Baptist" is my choice. He was booed off of the stage by the fundamentalists."

Dear Anonymous,

Thank you for sharing the recent history of the SBC with us. It was very painful to read! I have only been in the Southern Baptist denomination for eight years, so I missed much of what you included in your comments.

I became a Baptist because I had been in a mainline denomination that was too lukewarm for me. I was drawn to a Southern Baptist church because they believed in the inerrancy of Scripture.

I had been led to believe that the liberals and moderates in the SBC were heretics and had to be driven out from seminaries and pulpits. While there may have been some, I'm coming to the realization that some of the moderates who were driven out of leadership positons were actually strong Christians.

The truth is that this takeover was a power grab and "inerrancy of Scripture" was merely a smokescreen -- a way to enlist the masses to support the conservative takeover (as they were bussed in to vote and left immediately afterwards).

Time has a way of revealing the truth. I am saddened by all of this historical information.

The SBC is now beginning to reap what it has sown for almost three decades.



Thy Peace said...

Off topic

Please check these blog posts by Cindy:

Brain Versus Soul: Being Better Stewards of Our Minds

Describing Methods of Manipulation

A Brief History of the Doctrine of the Kenosis

New Trinity Video Challenges the Doctrine of Eternal Subordination of Christ

Robert I Masters said...

Thy peace,
re: cindy's articles

Can you say narcissistic.....If I wanted to go to a shrink. I would go.

from the Southern Baptist Geneva
Robert I Masters

Anonymous said...

Jesse said, "Of course, those liberal oil barons will probably suggest dubya." Actually, someone already has. :)

Anonymous said...

Since the cathedral is Episcopalian, do you think they might choose her majestry, Queen Elizabeth II ? She IS the Head of the Church of England. The Episcopalians and Anglicans have strong ties.

The Queen, whose family has certainly NOT modeled the faith in all cases, is, herself, an exemplary Christian woman.


Anonymous said...

Okay, taking in all the nominees I went back and reread the post again. With a clear head and without lingering too long, I can't keep Einstein from popping up right away. Reagan is indeed a close second.

Byron, I hear you about Einstein, but I am only going by Wade's closing statement of the "greatest man".

I would also second the motion for all the anony's to give yourself a nick.

People call me Slim even though it's actually SL1M, but that's okay. Just call yourself something.

You can even be a little "brave" like Wanda and use your first name (even if it's her mother's name) or a lot brave like Bob Cleveland and use both names. But just make it something.


Anonymous said...

Wanda, is 'inerrancy' a code word for 'infallibility'? Who decides what something means in the Bible?
Is this really a Baptist belief or did the Patterson/Pressler group just make it all up?


Robert I Masters said...

Oct 2008:
Southern Baptist Convention gets new name ...changes to Fundamentalist Convention of America.

Fundamentalist Ed Stetzer becomes the first president in 2009.

Name was chosen after anonymous carefully described the new tenor of the convention in Wade Burlesons blog called CarelessCharis

From the Southern Baptist Geneva
Robert I Masters

Inerrantist Calvinist Baptist said...

Now there's an interesting irony ... Robert I Masters calling someone else "narcissistic".

Robert, no offense, but it might not hurt if you did see a shrink. Or at least spend some time learning aoout the psychology of manipulation and spiritual abuse, and how to discern truth. Clearly you could learn a lot of truth about God and the Bible from Cindy.

Wayne Smith said...


As of today's win over OK.

Colt McCoy

Wayne Bonham TX

Bob Cleveland said...

I don't understand why there'd be any controversy over "inerrancy". Inerrant simply means free from error.

Wanda said...

Leah and Bob Cleveland,

Actually, I like the term "inerrancy". What I have a problem with is one's narrow interpretation that cannot be substantiated by the text.

And SL1M, I do use my real name. One day I hope you will be courageous enough to share your first name with us.

Also SL1M, what I greatly admired about Adrian Rogers was his refusal to accept a Calvinistic approach to Christianity. One of his favorite words was "whosoever". We can agree to disagree on that matter. I consider myself to be a 3-point Calvinist (I'm at neither extreme, which is a safe place to be as a Christian.)



Byroniac said...


I apologize, as I was the "anonymous" who posted that, and then I posted the "Sorry that was me" right after that. I had clicked on the name/url radio button to make sure it did not require a url or have any restrictions on the name, and then forgot to click the Google/Blogger radio button before I posted that. That is what I get for trying to think! LOL!!

Anonymous said...

Inerrancy is free from error. What about errors of translators? And interpretations? If there are two different interpretations, how is this to be decided?

Anonymous said...

”When Christ said: "I was hungry and you fed me," he didn't mean only the hunger for bread and for food; he also meant the hunger to be loved. Jesus himself experienced this loneliness. He came amongst his own and his own received him not, and it hurt him then and it has kept on hurting him. The same hunger, the same loneliness, the same having no one to be accepted by and to be loved and wanted by. Every human being in that case resembles Christ in his loneliness; and that is the hardest part, that's real hunger.”
~ Mother Teresa ~

”We need to find God, and he cannot be found in noise and restlessness. God is the friend of silence. See how nature - trees, flowers, grass- grows in silence; see the stars, the moon and the sun, how they move in silence... We need silence to be able to touch souls.”
~ Mother Teresa ~

”We think sometimes that poverty is only being hungry, naked and homeless. The poverty of being unwanted, unloved and uncared for is the greatest poverty. We must start in our own homes to remedy this kind of poverty.”
~ Mother Teresa ~

We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.”
~ Mother Teresa ~

Anonymous said...

"Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."

Albert Einstein

Anonymous said...

"Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."

Albert Einstein

Wanda said...

Anonymous said...
"Inerrancy is free from error. What about errors of translators? And interpretations? If there are two different interpretations, how is this to be decided?"

Very thoughtful questions. I am not a theologian, but when I want to interpret a passage of Scripture for myself, I read the text, consult reliable commentaries, and pray for the Holy Spirit (who guides my life 24/7) to give me clear discernment.


Thanks for the explanation. I'm sorry I missed your follow-up comment. Thank you for taking the time to share with us key events in recent SBC history.



Jesse said...

I'll toss out another name for consideration, Jim Elliot.

On a tangential note: interpretation of scripture must be narrow as there is only one correct interpretation of scripture (but likely multiple applications). Identifying the correct interpretation is the beauty and joy of hermeneutics. Just because I'm occasionally right when interpreting scripture doesn't necessarily make me mean, narrow-minded in the negative sense, or bigoted when I refuse to budge from that interpretation. It just means I'm trying to stand on the interpretation of a particular scripture.

However, I must be careful about being too adamant regarding applications.

Byroniac said...

Wanda, that was not me giving the history of the SBC. I have only posted anonymously here once, and that by accident. It is interesting discussion here though, which I have not completely followed. My mind is left wondering, how do you pick a single person to represent an entire century? I suppose that is why you have so many categories, such as Christian, or religious in general, or scientific, or military, or so forth. In truth, as great as these people mentioned have been, the greatest might not be known by name to us or historical records at all, but have to await the judgment seat of Christ in eternity.

But, for now, Nikola Tesla will do quite nicely. ;)

Stephen Pruett said...

If we really have internalized the biblical world view that we claim, the most humble among us would be the "greatest". Mother Teresa lived by choice under the most humble of circumstances, helping the "least of these" Hard to argue against her. However, Herschel Hobbs was also a humble man (I didn't know him, but from all accounts I have read he was a real Christian gentleman). He preached a gospel with which most of us would be comfortable, and he was a masterful teacher. I used his commentaries for years teaching a Sunday School class. If he was booed at the SBC annual meeting, this should have indicated way back then that the "resurgence" was not a worthy movement.

Anonymous said...

I find that list of SBC history to be like a most inspirational Hallmark Card. It was wonder to be reminded of the glorious defeat of evil. May God's glory once again shine in this present age of evil as the lame CBF types attempt a new coupe. Falwell's 11th hour reentry into the fold was a sign from the Father in heaven of a job well done.

Anonymous said...

"He preached a gospel with which most of us would be comfortable"

SP: Maybe this was the problem.

Anonymous said...

This took a couple of minutes to think about. I had to ponder ong the notables that were mentioned. C. S. Lewish would have to defintely be up there. Then Richard Wurmbrand, founder of Voice of the Martyrs, came to mind. He would have to be the most influential for me.
Somewhere west of Enid

Anonymous said...

Another funny thing about Wurmbrand is that in the initial stages of communism in his country, as I remember his testimony, it was his wife warned him to not buy into the ideology.

Anonymous said...

No matter how many quotes are given about Mother Teresa, she still will never the greatest MAN of the 20th century.

Upon further review, if Spurgeon had lived even one day into the 20th century he would have my vote. Missed it by 8 years.

Wanda, you sound angry and I'm not sure why? I gave you props for using your first name. I simply referred to perhaps it being your mother's name to show other people that it doesn't even have to be their truthful name. Just something for all of us to go by instead of just anonymous.

As far as calling for me to be more courageous, again you seem to always be looking for trouble. Why? Is it like I would be full of courage if I called myself Steve Smith from Tupelo Mississippi?

Furthermore, why are you only courageous enough to use your first name? Does that make you feel better? Do you know there must be at least 10,000 Wanda's out there? Come on Wanda, man up and give us your complete name. Maybe even really impress us and through in your address and bank account number?

You give yourself way too much credit and you deny others a speck. Address comments and quit worrying about other peoples courage.

Can I ask you to engage my comments and stop trying to pick a bone with me? Please?

Adrian Rogers said Calvinism is heresy. So did Falwell. You can make it all better by assigning yourself a number, but at the end of the day you are practicing heresy in his/their eyes.

And this coming from someone who liked them both. A shame indeed.

By the way, you can still call me Slim even though it's SL1M. That stands for:


While it is not level 3, in our context I feel it best to not use my real first name. Thanks for saying I don't have courage and thanks for understanding. Maybe?


Anonymous said...


Slim said to Wanda: "As far as calling for me to be more courageous, again you seem to always be looking for trouble. Why?"

Wanda, don't let this little bully get to you.

Anonymous said...

S. behave yourself. This is a CHRISTIAN blog. The venom doesn't work well here.

Anonymous said...


Are you the type that the B.I. people want? It figures.

Thy Peace said...

Pastor Wade, your organizing the posts by labels is a great help, for new comers like me.


Anonymous said...


"there is only one correct interpretation of scripture"

Yours? Who interprets God's word correctly so we 'idiots' understand it?

Old Timer

Byroniac said...


Adrian Rogers meant a lot to me for someone I never had the opportunity to meet or correspond. I listened to his sermons on Love Worth Finding almost every morning on my way to work for about a year some time back, until the radio station up and decided to move it to a very inconvenient time slot for me. He remains one of the best preachers I have ever heard, perhaps one of the very best SBC preachers ever. The day I heard he died I got very emotional, and I am sorry that his personal Christian ministry on Earth is over.

I am sure there is much to respect and even admire about both Falwell and Rogers, but they were also dead wrong on some things. Calvinism for them was a heresy, and this precluded fellowship with untold scores of believers. This issue is important enough to me that it becomes a fellowship issue when Christians charge this as heresy. But usually, I am not the one who wants to break fellowship, or to question the genuineness of someone's Christianity. And though I hope and have good reason to believe both are in heaven, I sincerely hope the SBC does not continue in their direction.

Old Timer:

There is only one God, and one Word, so there is only one interpretation, which is the Holy Spirit's interpretation. Whenever two groups appear with two different interpretations of Scripture, we know from 2 Peter 1:20 that one of those interpretations has to be wrong. That does not mean that every believer has full revelation from God as to the meaning of every Scripture, but we do have the Holy Spirit who teaches us and guides us in His Word.

What Jesse spoke of is the problem that happens between many believers (and I have been guilty as well), of differing applications. But it mystifies me why there is not more unity among Christian believers on Christian blogs. The following Scripture came to mind while writing this, from James 1:19 (KJV) "Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:" which speaks to me especially. There is also the very next verse to keep in mind, "For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God."

Anonymous said...


I agree completely about Adrian Rogers. I loved his program, kearned much from him, and he even seemed "fatherly" or "grandfatherly" (depending on one's age) to many...including me.

His view on the DoG was indeed unfortunate, but WOW what a preacher!


Anna A said...


Since you state that there is only one correct interpretation for every Scripture, how do you decide what it is.

Example: Are Paul's words about women keeping quiet in church for that church alone, or all churches at all times.

Anonymous said...

Translations: Byron, which one is correct or 'inerrant'? Which translations meet with YOUR approval? Which ones don't? Now we are going to see if you know what you are talking about.
Old T.

Rex Ray said...

Many people reference the Chicago Statement on Inerrancy for the definition of ‘inerrancy’. It states:

Page 5. “Inerrancy is vital to sound understanding and conformity to the image of Christ.”
[Is that saying us ‘non-inerrancy people’ can NOT understand and cannot conform to Christ?]

Page 5. “If inerrancy is rejected, there will be grave consequences.”
[Does that mean the firry-furnace, fired, booted out, or the highway?]

If no solution, trust to be an illusion.

Page 10. “Transmission and Translation
Since God has nowhere promised an inerrant transmission of Scripture,
it is necessary to affirm that only the autographic text of the original
documents was inspired and to maintain the need of textual criticism as
a means of detecting any slips that may have crept into the text in the
course of its transmission. The verdict of this science, however, is
that the Hebrew and Greek text appears to be amazingly well preserved,
so that we are amply justified in affirming, with the Westminster
Confession, a singular providence of God in this matter and in declaring
that the authority of Scripture is in no way jeopardized by the fact
that the copies we possess are not entirely error-free.”

“The copies we possess are not entirely error-free.” Huh? Please tell me where these errors are and why they’re not errors.

Fundamentalist coined ‘Inerrancy’ in the early 1900’s.
I believe the devil has never used one word that has caused more friction and hurt among Christians than the word ‘inerrant’, and I wish it would go back to his smiling lips and choke him.

Anonymous said...

Franklin D. Roosevelt

"He was a central figure of the 20th century during a time of worldwide economic crisis and world war.

During the Great Depression of the 1930s, Roosevelt created the New Deal to provide relief for the unemployed, recovery of the economy, and reform of the economic and banking systems.[1] Although recovery of the economy was incomplete until almost 1940, the programs he initiated such as the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), and the United States Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) continue to have instrumental roles in the nation's commerce. One of his most important legacies is the Social Security system.

As Britain warred with Nazi Germany, Roosevelt provided Lend-Lease aid to Winston Churchill and the British war effort before America's entry into World War II in December, 1941. On the home front he introduced price controls and rationing, and relocation camps for 120,000 Japanese-Americans. Roosevelt led the United States as it became the 'Arsenal of Democracy'. Roosevelt, working closely with his aide Harry Hopkins, made the United States the principal arms supplier and financier of the Allies. America had a vast expansion of industry, the achievement of full employment, and new opportunities opened for African-Americans and women. The new Conservative coalition argued unemployment disappeared and closed most relief programs like the Works Progress Administration (WPA) and Civilian Conservation Corps. As the Allies neared victory, Roosevelt played a critical role in shaping the post-war world, particularly through the Yalta Conference and the creation of the United Nations. Later, alongside the United States, the Allies defeated Germany, Italy and Japan.

Roosevelt caused a realignment political scientists call the Fifth Party System. His aggressive use of the federal government created a New Deal Coalition which dominated the Democratic Party until the late 1960s. Roosevelt introduced new taxes that affected all income groups. Conservatives vehemently fought back, but Roosevelt usually prevailed until he tried to pack the Supreme Court in 1937. He and his wife, Eleanor Roosevelt, remain touchstones for modern American liberalism. Roosevelt's administration redefined American liberalism and realigned the Democratic Party based on his New Deal coalition of labor unions; farmers; ethnic, religious and racial minorities; intellectuals;[2] the South; big city machines; and the poor and workers on relief."

Byroniac said...

Anna A and Old T:

Both of those questions are side issues. There is only one Holy Spirit. I believe He will guide the believer as He sees fit. I heard one preacher say, "we all operate at different levels of ignorance." Ouch, but it's a true statement, and it's one I've seen in my own life.

Anna, you asked how one is to "decide" which interpretation is the correct one. As a believer, that is not up for me to decide, but to simply agree with what the Holy Spirit teaches me. If I have one interpretation, and someone else has another, it is safe to say that at least one (if not both) of us are wrong. That does not explain why we disagree or who's right, which may occur for a number of reasons I suppose. I'm not trying to say this so it can turn into a series of debating points on specific issues; I'm just speaking in terms of spiritual truth I have learned. I mean, I can tell you what I believe, and we can discuss how much agreement we have together (or not), but five years down the road the situation may be completely different. Who knows?

Anonymous said...

FDR might be a very good contender for the position. Personally, I would pick Mother Teresa, but FDR did SO MUCH during the post-Depression Era and during the War To End All Wars, that his accomplishments indicate a great vision and a great stewardship of his position as President.

Wade, you WILL let us know the choice when you find out? :)
I would not be surprised if he was the one chosen. L's Gran :)

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