"I went to Jerusalem to become acquainted (Gk. istoria) with Cephas" - Paul's words from Galatians 1:18.

The History/Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man

I will sometimes look at the metrics of Blogger and be surprised at the number of hits certain blogposts receive. In 2014 I wrote a post entitled The Rich Man and Lazarus: A Warning to Preachers and was recently surprised at the large number of unique "hits" this post has received. I've gone back and read this post and realized it is also one of my favorites.

In an effort to connect with some folks who may have missed this post when first published, I'm re-posting with a couple of edits. My hope is that those who are truly interested in Scripture will consider the caution Jesus gives to the professionally religious from this parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Jesus didn't intend this parable as a doctrinal dissertation on the nature of hell. Rather, He was issuing a strong warning to the religious leaders of His day who used their positions of "authority" to fleece and abuse God’s people.

Here is the parable from Luke 16:19-31. I have emphasized in italicized bold the words deserving of your special attention:
"(19) Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. (20) And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, (21) and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. (22) Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. (23) and in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. (24) And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ (25) But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. (26) And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ (27) And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— (28) for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ (29) But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ (30) But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ (31) But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’” (Luke 16:19-31)
It is a given that those who seek diamonds must be experts at moving dirt. Digging in dirt is never enjoyable, but the anticipation of reward makes the effort bearable. So it is with Bible study. If you wish to find a diamond, you must work. So, bear with me, and let's do just a little work. It's worth it, I promise.

To understand the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus you must be familiar with a very obscure passage of Scripture that mentions seven political and religious leaders of Jesus day. It's found in Luke 3:1-2.
"Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, and Herod was tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip was tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene,  in the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness." (Luke 3:1-2).
Luke is introducing two Roman rulers, three Hebrew political leaders, and two Jewish religious leaders who were the chief antagonists of Jesus Christ throughout His earthly ministry. One cannot understand the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus without an understanding that Jesus tells this parable in order to rebuke the religious leaders of His day while at the same ignoring the political leaders. Frankly, we would be wise to model ourselves after Christ.

Principle: Quit worrying over the character and the abuse of power of our political leaders (they will always be corrupt), but never hesitate to rebuke those religious leaders who fleece God's people (they should not be corrupt).

(A). The Roman Rulers: Tiberius was the adopted son and sole heir of Augustus Caesar. He was the emperor of Rome (Caesar) throughout Jesus ministry. He became co-regent of the Roman Empire in AD 12 when his ailing adoptive father (Augustus)  became bedridden and could no longer function as emperor. Luke gives the date for the beginning of John the Baptist's ministry as 'the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar' (AD 26/27). Jesus once answered a question about paying taxes to Rome by saying, "Render to Caesar what is Caesar's." The Caesar to whom He referred was this Tiberius in Luke 3. Augustus Caesar was emperor over the Roman empire when Christ was born at Bethlehem. Augustus' son, Tiberius Caesar, was emperor over the Roman empire when Christ was crucified. The second Roman official named in this text is the infamous Pontius Pilate, governor of Judea. He is the Roman official who presides over the trial and execution of Jesus Christ. The American modern equivalent to Tiberius Caesar would be the President of the United States, and Pontius Pilate would be a state governor.

(B). The Hebrew Political Leaders: Luke then names three Hebrew political officials who ruled during Jesus' ministry in Judea - Herod, Philip the Tetrarch (Herod's brother), and Lysanias. Who are these three men? They are the 'leaders' of the ethnic Jews in Jesus day. They were also the sons and political heirs of Herod the Great, the former 'king of the Jews' who died in 4 BC. Herod the Great went ballistic when the wise men asked him "Where is He who is born king of the Jews?" because he (Herod the Great) was already king of the Jews. Herod died shortly after the birth of Jesus Christ. His political kingdom was then divided into regional fourths (Greek: tetrarchys) and distributed among his surviving sons to rule (tetrarchs). Leaders of the Judean tetrarchy mentioned in Luke 3 included Herod (nicknamed Antipas), Philip (often called Philip the Tetrarch), and Lysanias. These men were powerful among the Jews, but they couldn't do anything without Rome's permission

At the birth of Jesus, we read in Matthew 2 that Herod the Great was 'king of the Jews.' Thirty-three years later when Jesus is crucified, we read in Luke 23 that Herod orders soldiers to beat Christ and take him to Pilate. This 'Herod' at Christ's crucifixion is the Herod mentioned in Luke 3. He is the son of Herod the Great and is sometimes called Herod Antipas. The quarter of the region Herod was given to 'rule' as tetrarch included Galilee, the land where both John and Jesus based their ministries.  Herod Antipas is the one who had John the Baptist beheaded (picture).

In the ethnic melting pot we call the United States, it is difficult to find a modern equivalent to the tetrarchy positions held by Herod, Philip, and Lysanias. The closest equivalent might be those men who rule over individual political parties, major corporations, unions, and other powerful economic, political, and cultural entities within America. These positions aren't the highest of authority, for they must answer to 'Caesar,' but they have a great deal of influence over a specific category of people.

(C). The Jewish Religious Leaders: Two Wealthy, Powerful Priests. The final two men named by Luke in Luke 3:1-3 are  religious leaders who served as high priests of Israel.  Their names are Annas and Caiaphas. Modern Christians know very little about these two men. Annas was high priest over Israel for ten years (AD 6-15), until at the age of 36, he was removed by the Roman governor Guratus, the predecessor to Pontius Pilate. The other man, Caiaphas, served as high priest over Israel from AD 18 to AD 36, a time period that encompassed all of Jesus adult life and public ministry.

Annas had five sons and one daughter. His daughter married Caiaphas. Interestingly, every one of Annas five sons--as well as his son-in-law Caiaphas--served as the high priest of Israel during Annas' lifetime. Though Caiaphas was high priest during the time of Jesus, Luke names both Annas and Caiaphas because Annas was the power behind the high priest of Israel. It was said that "Annas ruled the religious world," even though his own children were the chief priests of Israel and each had their turn as 'high priest.' It was to Annas that the people first brought Jesus after our Lord's arrest. Only after being questioned by Annas was Jesus sent to Caiaphas for official trial by the Sanhedrin. Modern religious leaders, like Annas, have a tendency to want to control and run things 'behind the scenes.'

Annas and Caiaphas hated everything to do with Christ. Caiaphas particularly was the chief antagonist of our Lord. Caiaphas lived in a palatial mansion inside the walls of Jerusalem. He served as President of the Sanhedrin. If you saw Caiaphas walking around the streets of Jerusalem, he would always have his servants and attendants around him, and he would be dressed in the finest purple and fine linen. He ate the most sumptuous meals, drank the finest wines, always traveled first class, and lived better than the 'common Jew.' The modern equivalent of Caiaphas would be the wealthy religious leaders in America who take a spiritual position of authority and power over the common people of the land.

Jesus Condemns the Religious Leaders and Ignores the Political Leaders

It is striking to discover that Jesus says very little about the corrupt Roman and Judean political leaders of His day. These leaders--men like Tiberius Caesar, Herod Antipas, and Pontius Pilate--were all evil men. Yet, Jesus says very little publicly about any of them. In fact, when questioned about the supreme political leader (Caesar), Jesus simply says "Give back to Caesar what belongs to Caesar." Jesus is also completely silent before Herod during His trial. Instead of railing against Herod's abuse of political power, Jesus says nothing. It seems Jesus had little to say about politics.

Yet, Jesus boldly and soundly condemned Annas and Caiaphas, the 'rich' religious leaders of His day.

Ironic, is it not, that modern evangelicals often rail against political leaders, but there is an appalling silence when it comes to religious leaders who become rich off the money given by God's people?

Notice the anger and greed of the religiously rich in Jesus' day. The Bible tells us in John 12 that after Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, Caiaphas and Annas sought to kill Lazarus 'because many people were going away and were believing in Jesus.' These people 'going away' from the religious institutions--entities governed by Annas and Caiaphas--did so because they had seen Lazarus, a former dead man, walking around regenerated and enlivened by the power of Christ. These people had seen the power of Christ, and they were now uninterested in institutional religion. John the Apostle puts it like this:
"The large crowd of the Jews then learned that He was there; and they came, not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might also see Lazarus, whom He raised from the dead. But the chief priests planned to put Lazarus to death also; because on account of him many of the Jews were going away and were believing in Jesus. (John 12:9-11)
There are many places that Jesus condemns the religiously rich (i.e. 'the chief priests')  throughout the New Testament, but the most striking example is found in this parable that is more than a parable. Let's read the parable again and see the High Priest of the Jews (Caiaphas) is the Rich Man Jesus is condemning:

 "The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus."
“(19) Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. (20) And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, (21) and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. (22) Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. (23) and in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. (24) And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ (25) But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. (26) And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ (27) And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— (28) for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ (29) But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ (30) But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ (31) But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Caiaphas, the High Priest of Israel, is the rich man in Jesus parable. Caiaphas is the man "who lifted up his eyes in hell."  Caiaphas, the equivalent to a modern religious leader who becomes rich through his religious service, is the man condemned by Jesus Christ. How do we know this to be true?


  • The rich man wears the robes the color of the High Priest (purple and fine linen).
  • The rich man mistreats the poor man named Lazarus (just as Caiaphas sought to kill Lazarus).
  • The rich man asks a messenger to go to his 'father's house' (Annas' house).
  • The rich man had five brothers (Annas had five sons, Caiaphas was his son-in-law and considered his brothers-in-law to be his brothers).
  • The rich man desires a warning to be given to his five brothers about their behavior (all five of Caiaphas' brothers--the sons of Annas--followed him as 'chief priest' of Israel).
  • The rich man is told that they will not believe "even if someone rises from the dead" (just as Caiaphas, his father Annas, and his five brothers refused to believe in Jesus after Lazarus had been raised from the dead).

If you are a topical preacher you might pick the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus and wax eloquent on the subject of 'hell.' You might say something like (1). Hell is real, (2). Hell is rough. (3). Hell is ready. Then you might give the following application: "If you don't let go of your riches and willingly give your tithes and offerings to the church, you may find yourself waking up one day in hell, wanting to warn others to 'repent' and let go of their riches. Don't wait until it is too late! Give to the Kingdom of God today by giving your tithes and offerings!"

That, my friend, is the sorry state of evangelical preaching today. It's taking a text (the Rich Man and Lazarus) out of its context (the resurrection of Lazarus and the chief priests desire to kill Lazarus and stop others from believing on Christ) and turning it into a pretext (a false conclusion).

The lessons of the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus are only obtained when you systematically and intentionally learn the Scriptures, take texts in their contexts, and focus on the life transforming truth from God's word. The lessons of the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus are as follows:

(1). Any of us who are working in professional religious ministry in order to become rich through our religious services may wake up one day in hell, facing the holy judgment of God.
(2). Instead of railing against the world and our American culture--be it politics, business, Hollywood or some other segment of society--we preachers ought to reserve our harshest words for the religious who seek to become rich by abusing God's people, and focus more on giving the Bread of Life to those who are hungry, regardless of the cost.
(3). We do our Sunday morning crowd a favor when we teach the Scriptures verse by verse because we create a safeguard from misapplications which arrive out of false conclusions of a text, and we will give our hearer a better appreciation of the Person of Jesus Christ and His power to transform lives.

Those, in my opinion, are the lessons of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

50 comments:

SJ Reidhead said...

Okay, I'm impressed with your history and grasp of sociology of the day. What an amazing post!

Rhonda Montgomery said...

Refreshing! Thank you. Looking forward to more, as I reread all of your old posts.

Bob Cleveland said...

"amazing" .. "refreshing" ... "love this" ... "GREAT POST!".

All true, and let me add my thanks for an inspiring post.

Don said...

I think those are some great insights that are very plausible. Using a hinting method of referring to someone that it would be dangerous to be explicit about is a way for the insiders to know more than the outsiders.

I offer the following as a possible way to take this even deeper in some way. From my studies into Jewish cultural context, the Hebrew sheol was the abode of the dead, this in turn was translated into the Greek hades as the closest word in Greek (but of course without any of the Greek mythology attached) which then gets translated into the English hell. However, there were 2 parts of sheol, the abode of the righteous dead, called Abraham's bosom or paradise, and the remainder for the unrighteous.

Christiane said...

In my Church it has been said that ‘hell’ is when a person has willingly “destroyed himself or herself so that they no longer have any element upon which the love of God can rest, and they no longer have the slightest capacity to love within themselves”;
but that in Christ, there remains hope for “souls that are wounded and sick, as is the experience of all, need . . . a true renewal, which can come only from the power of God, from the power of crucified Love”

I think ‘hell’ is real because I think our human kind have been given choices as a part of our having been formed in the image of God. But I believe God’s love may be far more powerful and effective than many Christian people have believed it to be, and that is what engenders hope in the great mercy and compassion of God towards those that are ‘lost, and confused, and without a Shepherd’.

RRR said...

Wade,
Thanks a lot for the in-depth portrayal of so much historical detail related to the times prior to the crucifixion.

Although our Lord could have indeed painted this portrait with the contemporary religious leaders in mind, I see no reason at all for not gleaning much from the insight into life after death. There are many truths given by Christ related to this which is not depicted in other places:
- I have heard, and consider, that this is NOT a "parable" but a portrayal of an actual event. The basis for this argument is that in no other "parable" did Jesus refer to the characters by "name". Not sure about this one but it's food for thought.

- We will identify each other as we knew them in this world following death
- We will be aware of those we left behind in the world after we die
- We will not be able to return to the world following death (except, of course, at the
Second Coming of Christ)
-Those in heaven will be aware of those who go to hell and vice versa.
- Hell is no place to be. It is a place of unimaginable torment

I agree that there is no clear reference as to the basic failure of the Rich Man that got him into hell or that got Lazarus into heaven. Certainly not because one was rich and the other was poor. For that truth we would need to rely upon other Scripture.

RB Kuter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RB Kuter said...

Wade,
I did not read the beginning explanation on this post explaining that it was reminiscing of a former one that you had written so I was confused initially. Now I understand.

You're right in saying it did attract a lot of interest. It was a great piece.

Rex Ray said...

RRR,

Good to hear you again. You said, “I have heard, and consider, that this is NOT a "parable" but a portrayal of an actual event. The basis for this argument is that in no other "parable" did Jesus refer to the characters by "name".

I believe you and Wade agree since Wade stated: “Caiaphas, the High Priest of Israel, is the rich man in Jesus parable. Caiaphas is the man “who lifted up his eyes in hell.”
Also, see Wade’s six statements how the parable ‘fits’ Caiaphas.

Since Caiaphas lived longer than Jesus on earth, this is not an event that happened, but one that would happen. I believe it’s a prophesy by Jesus.

I believe those in hell may know of loved ones in heaven, but I don’t believe anyone in heaven will know of their loved ones in hell. (Could you be happy knowing your mother etc. was in hell?) In fact when God wipes away our tears we may not know there is a hell or that our loved ones not there ever existed.

Christiane said...

These posts, like seeds planted, may have changed hearts and minds.

There is no doubt in my own mind that at some point, in some way, minds and hearts were changed . . . that people became embarrassed by the 'excess' of the Pattersons at the expense of 'the mission' of the seminary.

And in time, the shocking contrasts awakened many more, as the severity of unkindnesses towards women grew, especially cruel in a setting that was supposed to prepare people to minister and teach others of the love of Christ.







Rex Ray said...

UT OH

“…some of the believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees…” (Acts 15:5)

I believe it’s a possibility that some of these Pharisees may have been priest.

I also believe that one of them could have been the High Priest Caiaphas because of Matthew 26:64.

That’s when Jesus told him: “…in the future you will see the Son of Man seated in the place of power at God’s right hand…”

I think any fool would believe in Jesus if they saw him at the right hand of God.

Scott Shaver said...

This is good stuff. Remember sharing with others when originally posted. Thanks for resharing, especially in this age of "proof text" poundings where The Bible is misused as a hammer to break and divide.

RB Kuter said...

Rex Ray,

Good to be back.

Not sure where you saw me as "agreeing" with Wade on. I do concede to his right to have his interpretation as to the motive of Christ in giving this portrayal. Personally, I think that his view is conjecture as to what Jesus might have meant to say. I do "concede" to Wade's right to have his interpretation which is meant to say that I concede to his being able to come to his own conclusions, not that I "agree" with his conclusions.

I have no reason (and Wade's information gives me no basis for having one) to believe that Jesus was depicting anything other than the factual portrayal of what occurs when we leave this world. For me, the politics going on at the time have no bearing on the truths implanted in His parables or accounts of real circumstances that occur beyond our realm of experience.

Plus, Jesus seldom, if ever, cloaked His disdain and condemnation of the religious leaders and their hypocritical piety nor did ever express in my opinion, any interest in becoming involved in the secular politics of the Roman invaders.

So I just take this story as it is laid out and glean from it the insights provided by the only One who knows; which I personally believe to have been His motive.

Scott Shaver said...

Love this rationale RB, last three paragraphs are classic.

Best thing of all, both the view of Wade and yourself work equally well for me.

Tom Ross said...

In your previous blog in 2014 I posted the following: -

“Tom Ross said...
It is so sad that our traditions blur the lines between man's ponderings about God and God's reality for mankind.

Our ponderings on God's word has meant that the true understanding of what was meant has become lost in the overburden of mankind's fears and lack of comprehension and our own self-righteousness.

Shalom

Tue Jun 24, 11:11:00 PM 2014


Nothing, in my opinion, has changed since I posted the above comment in 2014.

The consequences of our belief systems can be modified if we are prepared to renew our mind about our understanding of God, such that it falls in line with what God’s understandings, as set out in His word, is. After renewing our mind, we are also required to put on the renewed mantle of man as God intended us to be from the beginning of time/creation.

We all should remember that judgement belongs to the Lord.

There is a time when the poking of the bear must stop. Continuing the rage is not beneficial for all as it only eats you up as the forgiveness is withheld.

The time has come to turn our focus back towards God and what he has done and what He is doing in our lives. It is time for us to individually consider our relationship with God and let God deal with others and their relationship to Him.

May the Lord continue to include all to Himself, giving each the opportunity to respond within their own individual circumstances.

Shalom

Rex Ray said...

OFF TOPIC BUT HISTORY

Our SS lesson today has two names, President Lincoln and Dr. Samuel Mudd. “Descendants of Mudd are still attempting to clear their family name.”

Wonder how long the descendants of Oswald will attempt to clear their name?

James Tague book page numbers as (#) and my comments in [ ] will prove Oswald innocent.
1. Photograph of Texas Department of Public Safety showed two spent rounds and one live round in the ‘sniper’s nest’. (#279) [“live” means the rifle firing pin had not made a dent in the round; only the lead and powder had been removed.]
2. [No one knew JFK would pass the School Book Depository at 12:30] Four employees saw Oswald reading a newspaper on the first floor at 11:50. (#47)
3. Oswald asked James Jarman JR. why people were gathering outside. Jarman answered, and Oswald said, “Oh, I see.” (#46)
4. Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald eating in the lunchroom on the second floor at 12:15 which was 15 minutes before JFK was killed. (#47).
5. Marrion Baker, policeman, thought the shooter was on the roof but had to take the stairs because the two elevators were at the 5th floor and the electricity was off for 3 minutes (which let assassins hide their guns and escape on the elevator.) Baker pulled a gun on Oswald in the lunchroom on the 2th floor 75 seconds after the first shot was fired. Oswald appeared calm. Afterwards, Oswald bought a soda from a soft-drink-machine. (#44) Baker continued up the stairs to the 5th floor and saw one elevator had gone down. He took the other elevator to the 7th floor. (#373)
6. Vickie Adams and Sandra Styles were watching through a window on the 4th floor as shots were fired. They immediately went down the stairs and outside without seeing anyone. (#214)
7. If Oswald had shot Kennedy from the 6th floor, he’d had to hide his rifle on the 5th floor, and be in the lunchroom in 75 seconds without being out of breath. Also, since the women had a head start of two floors, he would have the impossible task of running past them without being seen. (#217)
8. After drinking the soda, Oswald casually walked out of the front door and caught a bus. After the bus got stalled in traffic, he got a taxi but not before waiting for the bus driver to give him a transfer that was stamped 12:40 which was on him when he was arrested.) (#95) [Would a killer on the run wait for a bus transfer?]

Rex Ray said...

9. Attorney General of Texas, Waggoner Carr, said Oswald was hired by the FBI in September 1962 as an informant with a salary of $200 a month. (#179)
10. Oswald got a job at the Texas State Depository Building (October 15, 1963…five weeks before the assassination. (#205)
11. E. Howard Hunt was a former CIA agent who served 33 months in prison for Watergate. Oswald believed he was in charge and wrote a letter two weeks before the assassination: “Dear Mr. Hunt, I would like information concluding my position. I am asking only for information. I am suggesting that we discuss the matter fully before any steps are taken by me or anyone else. Thank You, Lee Harvey Oswald.”
http://johnsonbushandnixonkilljohnfkennedy.blogspot.com/
[Oswald should have known Paul Newman’s statement: “If you're playing poker and look around the table and can't tell who the sucker is, it's you.”]
12. Tague wrote (#97): “It is evident to me that the taxi ride to Oak Cliff [to his apartment] gave Oswald a moment to think. Oswald knew he had been put at TSBD for a certain reason; now in the taxi, he figured things out and he panicked knowing he was a patsy.” [TV quoted him saying: “I’m a patsy.”]
13. Oswald rushed in and out of his room so fast, his landlady, Earlene Roberts said, “My, you’re sure in a hurry.” (#95) [He probably got his pistol. He was accused of shooting a policeman, but the bullets did not match.]
14. “A theater cashier called police and reported a suspicious wild-looking man had entered the Texas Theater.” (#96) [In the lunchroom, Oswald faced a policeman’s gun and stayed clam because he hadn’t done anything wrong, but now fear of being a ‘patsy’ had him looking for someplace to hide.]

Anonymous said...

Just a probably meaningless random thought, but in nearly 70 years cannot recall the passage ever preached that we should learn from the rich man and pay our tithes. Rather, that we should learn and take care of the less fortunate among us. But that isn't very pertinent and is just my experience:)

linda

Christiane said...

I see the parable as being in the family of sacred Scriptures that speaks of the coming of God's justice. For example, we read in Isaiah 40:23,

"He brings the princes to nothing
and makes the judges of the earth meaningless."

What is it with us when we glorify power and wealth that afflicts abuse and inhumane treatment on those who are vulnerable ???

well, there is a chasm of distance between the young preacher with the mega-church and a million plus dollar home-gated community; and the ox which needs not to be muzzled, so that it can glean from the grain of its work

I suppose money is more important to some than to others, and in our worldly society it has a position that commands respect and implies 'authority';
EXCEPT when we see a pastor fall into the worldly love of money, something happens to negate the thinking of others concerning 'respect' and 'authority' of such an individual . . . the big house and new car become an embarrassment, not a symbol of 'importance' in the Church . . .

better to live simply, and drive an old car, preferably donated by a Church member, and conserve the resources of the Church for unselfish purposes (only after decency in living arrangements, and proper care of children is secured).

The 'bling' cardinals, the fancy library, the flying first class to serve the poor in a foreign country, the hiring of 'pastry chefs' for entertaining purposes . . . all these things don't work for good in view of the world, for those in the world are looking to hope in a leadership that has humility before God and who is a servant-model for the community.

Our Lord didn't have a place to rest His Head . . . and He has asked for people to follow Him in His Way. No money needed. Just enough love to endure hardship in order to present Him to the world as He truly was when He was among us. Such is the paradox of our faith. All is grace. All is love. Kindness is not expensive. A peaceful heart cannot be bought with money or donations. Christ is sufficient.


Christiane said...

I agree with this comment from Tom Ross:

"We all should remember that judgement belongs to the Lord."

but my heart broke for what was done to Dr. Sherri Klouda . . . Did Patterson ever grieve over the suffering he caused her? I imagine if he had done this, or if he had shown any remorse for the harm done to the missionaries, his situation might have come to a better end..... people are forgiving . . . but in Dr. Klouda's case this did not happen and instead of justice, she was handed over to suffering, she who had served the seminary faithfully and was much regarded by her students . . .

was it in the 'nature' of a Christian seminary leader to do such a thing to someone like Dr. Klouda? No. Not of a 'Christian' leader, of course not. Words were used from sacred Scripture to 'justify' removing her from her position at a very difficult time in her family's life.

In the Book of Amos-the-prophet, we find these words:
6:12 "Do horses run on the rocky crags?
Does one plow the sea with oxen?
But you have turned justice into poison
and the fruit of righteousness into bitterness"

A Christian leader used scripture to turn justice for Sherri Klouda into poison.
Like Debbie, I am glad he will no longer be able to do this to another woman. We need Christian leaders in the whole Church who are formed according to the mind and heart of Christ.

Maybe, if the circumstances surrounding Dr. Patterson's removal were the result of the Body of Christ acting in response to the prompting of the Holy Spirit on their consciences, was God's justice was being served?

RB Kuter said...

Rex Ray, you just cannot give it up, can you?

I sure wish we could learn the truth of what happened in the JFK assassination. Sure aggravates me too, but I conclude that there is nothing I can do to uncloak that mystery and the cover-up must run so deep into the invisible stealth system of control of global affairs that we'll never find the answers.

Many often speculate that perhaps LBJ was behind it, that it was the Mafia trying to get back at the Kennedys for reneging on the promises made to them for their support in the Bay of Pigs operation, that it was Castro, and I have even heard that it may have been because Marilyn Monroe was both JFK's and a Mafia boss' girlfriend.

If it was any of these, I think that they might have revealed the truth after 50 or 60 years due to none of those people or things being in existence now. But if it was a hidden establishment of control of some sort that orchestrates global events, wars, crisis, and controls who will be top politicians in nations, etc., then that might explain why the truth is never revealed.

Anyone who concludes there was NO cover-up has to be the real "patsy" given all of the extraordinary circumstances of Jack Ruby's involvement, Oswald's suspicious flirtation with the Soviet Union, his connections with the CIA and others, the mysterious cover-up of JFK's autopsy, Bobby Kennedy's subsequent assassination, and on and on. Something other than the joke propagated by the Warren Commission was certainly at play.

It is so frustrating that it could drive me crazy in not knowing the truth given it will never be revealed by the deep state players, so I conclude that it will be one immense mystery forever and I may as well move along.

Tom Ross said...

In the parable of the Prodigal Son, both sons needed attention from their father to meet their individual needs.

In the events surrounding people's needs to care and bless those with whom we rub shoulders with, not everybody can help the people who are hurting or deal with the underlying cause for the people who bring grief upon others and bring restoration into that person's life.

What happens in the SBC, is really of no concern of mine as I live around 12-15 hrs in time in front of the events happening within the region of the SBC's influence. All I can do is lift up the people and pray that God has included the names of all of the people within the influence of the SBC within those who he is drawing to himself after which I must begin giving thanks that God is drawing all of those who I have included or indicated within my prayer.

I cannot begin to start telling God what must happen, otherwise I am no better than those who set themselves as God within their life as well as within the lives of those that I/they may have influence over. Scripture also tells me that even people who had a heart after God's hearty failed in this area and God had to challenge him some 8 or so years later after being given a chance to repent of his sin. Sadly, this leader/person often draws other people into committing the same sin of turning away from God.

Even the prophet who came to challenge the leader of the people though that he also knew what the primary sin was and what the consequences would be for that sin, but my sense is that this prophet missed seeing that the leader/person missed the primary sin that manifested in all of the other sins that were committed by this person.

We must all be careful that in our zeal to "fix" the problem that we too do not sin.

God is looking for people who have His hearth and His discernment to help those who sin, by helping them to restore their life such that they do come into a right relationship with God before it is too late.

Yes, judgement does belong with the Lord, but it is everybody's responsibility to do what they can to bring restoration to those who have fallen from God's grace should that opportunity presents itself to them. To know when they should step in to offer a hand back up, and also know, when it is time to gracefully with draw and to all God to take over in the work of restoration.


May we all gain God wisdom and insight in this important work.

Shalom

Rex Ray said...

RB Kuter,

Thanks for the reply. You said, “I sure wish we could learn the truth of what happened in the JFK assassination.” Jesus said, “You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.”

“Where there’s smoke there’s fire.” There’s many books written that involve LBJ with the murder of Kennedy, and none indicating LBJ was innocent.

Mrs. Kennedy did not change her bloody cloths flying back to Washington. Later, she said she regretted washing the blood from her hands and face because she wanted to show THEM what THEY had done to Jack. (RB, who was “THEM” if not someone on the airplane?) She wanted to fly on a different plane, but LBJ insisted she be next to him when he was taking the oath to be President as it would help unite the country.

On the runway, the Judge apologized to LBJ she would not be able to swear him in as President because she couldn’t remember the exact oath necessary to be legal. He gave her a copy of the oath from has pocket and said, “If anyone says they saw that I’ll call you a liar!”

Mrs. Kennedy died in 1994. Her daughter, Caroline, release her mother’s tapes to ABC News in 2011 from the Kennedy family vault. Her oral recordings on tapes state: “It’s very clear to her that others were involved; including President Lyndon Johnson.”

Jon L. Estes said...

Wade -

Interesting.

1 - I believe there is a spiritual/reason God did not give the rich man a name. He wants us to understand that those who are not His... He does not know.

2 - I believe there is a spiritual/biblical reason we receive the picture of someone in hell... It is real.

3 - I believe there is a spiritual/biblical reason we see that this unnamed man wanted someone to go back to tell his family... He wanted them to be saved from the torment he knows he will experience for eternity.

One of the greatest lessons in this, for me, is... Do the people in hell want the lost world to be reached for Christ more than the Christians on the planet? Do the people in hell care more about the lost than the church?

That you give the rich man a name is interesting, not that you can't - you prove you can because you did - rather, I find it interesting because God chose not to give him a name.

Rex Ray said...

RB,

On my bucket list is to change “LBJ Freeway” in Dallas, Texas to ‘JFK Freeway.

Bill O’Reilly stopped his TV adds of his book on “Killing Kennedy” after I sent him two emails why Oswald was innocent.

President Trump has not replied to my two letters pleading for him to pardon Sirhan in his conviction of killing Robert Kennedy because he had been hypnotized to think he was shooting at targets on a gun range and did not harm Kennedy. After firing two shots (missing Kennedy) Sirhan’s arm was held down on a table by others where he wounded five people. Sirhan cannot remember anything that took place.

The autopsy revealed powder burns behind Kennedy’s ear and two in the center of his back, but Sirhan was in front of Kennedy.

A reporter’s tape recorder revealed 13 shots, but Sirhan’s gun only held 8 bullets. The sounds were different indicating one gun made a louder noise. Also some sounds were so close together it would be impossible to pull a trigger that fast.

It cannot be proved that LBJ hired someone to hypnotized Sirhan, but it could be proved that he furnished Sirhan with lawyers. They tricked Sirhan into pleading guilty, but later he realized what they had done and said he was innocent.

Did LBJ use his Presidential powers to prevent the autopsy being shown to the jury? The bullets from Kennedy and others were different size, but the jury didn’t see them because ‘substitute bullets’ were shown that looked the same.

RB, do you think LBJ wanted Robert Kennedy to become president when he knew Robert still had evidence he obtained as Attorney General that LBJ received a $100,000 kickback from General Dynamics, thousands from Bobby Baker, and Billie Sol Estes. Most of all Robert had slammed his fist into a concrete pillar near LBJ and said, “Why did you have my brother killed?”

RB Kuter said...

Rex Ray, all of these "Kennedy" episodes are cloaked in a lot more mystery, in my opinion, than the story of the "Poor man, Lazarus, and the Rich Man", which seems to me to have a very clear and obvious intent.

It is extremely unlikely that these assassinations, JFK, Oswald, Police Officer J.D. Tippit (supposedly shot by Oswald while searching for him), and Robert Kennedy, (Marilyn Monroe?) were simply coincidental and disconnected.

That was an extraordinarily violent time as evidenced even further by the MLK assassination, shooting of George Wallace, Larry Flint and probably others who escape my memory. But I do not accept that the "violence" and social-ideological extremities of the times explain away the glaring voids and unanswered questions of the Kennedy murders and cover-up. The killings surrounding the Kennedys involved such high profile personalities and offered no substantive motive by the assassins so that it defies the acceptance of the explanations offered by the political establishment then and since that time.

Those in control of the information must have some kind of amazing leverage in order to keep subsequent Presidents from pursuing an openness and unveiling of all of the information and buried details. They have never even offered their intent in keeping the information buried deep in the vault of kept secrets.

Still, I believe it is important for people who lived through those times to continue to present the case for alternative answers so as to not allow it to completely disappear as vapor blown by the wind, which is what somebody is hoping will happen. So I really appreciate your being a bulldog in not letting go of this matter. As you do so, I would encourage you to give as much detail as to your sources for these details you cite so as to add to their credibility. Do not simply cite an institution or individual who is the source of this testimony or that, but give actual "book, chapter, page, and verse", or "newspaper, date of publication, article title, and author", etc., where it was quoted or written. Then anyone whose interest is pricked by the logic of it can go to observe the details and evidence for themselves. This will minimize it being shrugged off as simply being another "conspiracy theory", or coming from an unreliable source like occurs so often with the alien spacecraft claims, Bigfoot, etc.

I believe someone was involved in those high crimes who was never identified or held accountable. I believe that whoever it was had to have immense power and control over multi-faceted agencies to create and maintain the coverup that has followed. If that is the case, then it is an extremely dangerous and threatening presence that should be of concern to us all.

Guess we have gotten WAY off of Wade's post's topic. He is a really nice guy to allow you and I to kind of violate the intent of his Blog!

Rex Ray said...

RB,

Most of my information comes from the book “LBJ and the Kennedy Killing” by James T. Tague that he wrote in 2013. His book became so popular he was interview on TV etc. that I believe the “powers that be” silenced him three months after his book was published.

From my hometown, he became my friend. I was one of 16 people that attended his funeral. I condensed his book of 433 pages into nine pages. I have one book left after I gave 12 others away.

You said, “Guess we have gotten WAY off of Wade's post's topic. He is a really nice guy to allow you and I to kind of violate the intent of his Blog!” (Wade has one of Tague’s books.)

Wade Burleson said...

RB,

Rex's book he mentions "LBJ and the Kennedy Killing" is tremendous.

Rex has peaked my interest in it too!

Christiane said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RB Kuter said...

Thank you and Rex Ray, Wade.

This is why I believe your passion about this topic is important:

Contemporary accusations about the injustice imposed by the US government gets public attention and huge recognition and exposure in the media. The reports create great outpourings and expressions of outrage and anger as the public's emotions are manipulated by the mainstream press and social media machine. The most visible force behind the propaganda machine is the social elite and this operates within a news network monopoly and not independent thinkers and news outlets. This anomaly is evidenced by the huge news giants (Reuters, AP, etc.) and the choreographed manipulation of what is to be played as the major news interests of the day. We who allow ourselves to be bamboozled and stirred up in support of their banner waving crusades are made dupes in their propaganda game and fodder for their causes.

But still, this contemporary media power-playing is much less harmful in terms of being a real threat to our free society than are the conspiracies and tactics being played out beneath the surface and under the radar screen, like the Kennedy fiascos. A person would have to be a fool to swallow all the swill being publicly broadcast in the mainstream media, but everyone is susceptible to being victimized by the secret, more stealth antics being acted out behind the curtains and whose players are intentionally hidden and avoid attention being drawn to them.

This is, and has always been, the greatest threat and danger. It is the injustice being imposed that is cloaked in secrecy and made obscure so as to render the public media indifferent to its existence. There are definitely forces at play who determine what will remain a mystery and what is to dominate the psyche of society's moral police.

I was just watching the "Voices of the Martyred" movie, "Tortured for Christ". It is about the cruel persecution of the church in Romania by the Communist regime of the Soviet Union following the end of WWII. That type of oppressive phenomenon seemed to be an impossibility to occur in the United States just a few years ago. However, when a person views that process of progression by the demonic rulers of the Soviet Union's Communist regime to oppress the proclamation of The Gospel message and freedom found in Christ, one can see parallels to many things occurring in today's societies, even in the western world.

The post-WWII Soviet Union party primarily operated in secrecy, cloaked by the abduction of Christian leaders in the darkness of night so as to not draw attention from the public world. They took care not to stir up resistance and revolt against their Gestapo tactics. They wanted things to continue to operate as though nothing was happening. Kind of like a frog in a kettle of water on the stove burner which is gradually made hotter.

We see similar things at play today as were seen in the post-WWII Soviet Union and they are becoming more apparent here at home. To keep our heads in the sand only accommodates their manipulation of the winds of change that undermine our basic freedoms and democracy. That is why it is so important that Rex Ray-types not be silent or shrugged off by those who snidely chuckle at his insistence that the powers at play are not always obvious and openly exposed.

Christiane said...

Hello Mr. Kuter,
I am sorry if my comment seemed offensive. It was not intended to be. I hold both Wade and Rex Ray in high regard and would not want to imply otherwise ever. What I do know is that everyone engages in speculation about 'what REALLY happened' in certain situations, but that it is also very important to check out sources of information as these days, some entities are sowing conspiracy theories designed to divide our country and to destroy our faith in our form of government under the Constitution. I do trust both Wade and Rex Ray to be Christian people who value truth in the end.

I once had a conspiracy theory myself, and in the end felt a bit silly about it, but at the time, it seemed quite plausible to me because of prior events related to the branch of military service involved. We all speculate. But we all need to check sources out and be wary of the agendas of certain entities (some known as enemies of our country) who are not favorable to our American way of governing.

Rex Ray is a very dear person and I would not 'insult' him, no. If I do smile about his theories, it's because he enjoys speculating about them so much and I am happy for him. I hope this helps.

Rex Ray said...

CHRISTIANE,

OLD FRIEND, you don’t have to guess why I’m addressing this comment to you. :)

On the back cover of Tague’s book is written by Robert Groden: Staff Photographic Consultant to the House Select Committee on Assassinations, Washington, DC.

“I have known James Tague for more than thirty years. He is a historic figure in the study of the assignation of President Kennedy. His story of the events in Dealey Plaza has not changed in all these years and his being wounded by a stray shot truly changed the course of the investigation of the crime of the century…This book is a must read for any student of the assassination. If you believe the Warren Report now, you will not after reading this book.”

Teague’s book (p.353-356) “The famed Clint Murchison Sr. party and the secret meeting afterwards was on November 21, 1963 supposedly to honor FBI Director Hoover…in Dallas. Murchison, a close friend to Johnson, was a co-conspirator in the plot to assassinate Kennedy who had plans to do away with the oil depletion allowance which would cost him and other oilmen millions of dollars. After mid-night there was a meeting of 25 people (Mac Wallace has his name identified as, assassin”) [Years later his fingerprints were identified in the “Sniper’s window”.] to make sure all the bases had been covered…for everyone to know their part in the cover-up on the murder of Kennedy that was to take place in hours. Hoover said, “Any information that gets out will have to come through me, and I’ll have it wired from the Police Force to the CIA.” (p.157) “November 24, FBI memo: Convince the public Oswald is the assassin.” (p. 321) “Madeline Brown, showed me a picture of her son…was hers and LBJ’s.” (p.385) “Brown said the affair lasted from 1949 to 1960’s. After the private meeting, LBJ growled into her ear, “After tomorrow those (expletive) Kennedy’s will never embarrass me again. That’s no threat, that’s a promise.” Hours later, on November 22, Kennedy was dead.”

Christiane said...

Hello there, REX RAY

it's an interesting theory, I give you that. . . . I always hoped that the Warren Commission was an honest effort was on the level, and the truth is, I didn't like LBJ in those days, although I do think he had some good progressive ideas for the country.

I hate to get into conspiracy theories here, after all those comments we made about 'bears' (gosh, that was fun!) but WADE says he's interested. So you are in the clear. Wade is a very kind (very patient) person, and he may encourage you in your theories, but I am hesitant to do so for a thousand reasons, none of them sensible, LOL.

I've heard a lot of theories about the Kennedy assasination also, one being that an FBI agent slipped and his gun went off and killed Kennedy by accident, and then a whole coverup was done to protect the agent and the reputation of the FBI. I never believed it, but it WAS interesting. . . .

I remember that day when he was killed. I was in school. The nuns let us go down to the chapel to pray. Days like that get seared into your memory. Yep.
Take care.

Rex Ray said...

CHRISTIANE,

(p.193) “A senior counsel was named; he hired 15 lawyers…Rankin’s 15 lawyers meet…”

Well, that’s one of the things that grips me about Teague’s book. I’ve just now gone to Google to find out this guy’s name was J. Lee Rankin, former Solicitor for the United States. When Teague told me another addition of his book was going to be published, I suggested that the many mis-spellings, wrong dates, more information etc. be corrected and I gave him a long list.

In that Google search, I ran across a ‘report’ that was longer than Tague’s book. I didn’t read it all but one thing ‘jumped at me’ “…poor dumb cop.” Someone had overheard the words of Officer Tippet’s killer when Tippet tried to arrest him. Those words would fit a mobster telling James Files, “I had to waste a cop to avoid being arrested.”

AH, Tague died before James Files made the scene. http://jfkmurdersolved.com/filestruth.htm

When he was 21 years old, Files was a ‘hit man’ for the Mob. He confessed shooting Kennedy when he was behind the ‘picket fence’, and leaving his ‘calling card’ by biting the end of shell and leaving it. Many years later, it was found accidently with a metal detector. He went to prison for another crime for 50 years and was paroled in 2016.

Christiane said...

Hello Rex Ray,

sounds like you would have made a great editor for Tague

I remember Officer Tippet's murder also...... a day of tragedy for sure

Rex Ray said...

CHRISTIANE,

Tague was a good automobile salesman, but NOT a writer. The East window on the 6th floor was known as the “Sniper’s window”, but why did he wait next to the last chapter to name the shooter in the ‘West window’? (p.415) “Lawrence Loy Factor was the dark-skin person seen on the sixth floor from the far West window …he was a full-blooded Indian with the reputation of being an expert marksman…The angle line up for this West window to be the shot that hit John Connally. Years later, he was found in a hospital and admitted he was on the sixth floor that day, but denied shooting. He had a plate in his head from World War Two, a wooden leg from a snake bite, and was a diabetic with hepatitis. He was convicted of manslaughter for killing his wife.”

(p.416-418) “Factor’s story started in Bonham, Texas, for the funeral of U.S. House of Representatives speaker Sam Rayburn November 18, 1961. Every living President was there including Kennedy. [Two years and six days before he was killed.] Factor took his wife and children to see Kennedy. While there he started talking to a stranger about his marksmanship. The man got Factor’s address and said he might have a job for him in the future. The man gave him $20 to buy something for his children. Over a year later the man came and asked for a demonstration of his marksmanship. The stranger was Mac Wallace. (p.406) his fingerprints were identified in the Sniper’s window. Wallace said he had a job for him and it might be in a year…the job paid $10,000 and gave Factor a down payment of $2,000. In the hospital, Factor describe their escape.

Christian, Tague got the ‘hospital information’ from a book, “The men on the sixth floor”. (p.417) Tague said the book at one time sold for $999 on Amazon. On the same page, Tague wrote, “In 1993, Factor was found in a hospital. He described his escape down the STAIRS.”

Christiane, did Tague forget he proved no one used the stairs but two women, and the assassins used the ELEVATOR?

RB Kuter said...

Christiane: "I am sorry if my comment seemed offensive."
Not sure why you thought I considered you making any comment that was offensive to me. Any comments I made in the stream were not intended to directly address your conversation with Rex Ray or Wade.

RB Kuter said...

Rex Ray, the most telling comment you made for me, anyway, was "Murchison, a close friend to Johnson, was a co-conspirator in the plot to assassinate Kennedy who had plans to do away with the oil depletion allowance which would cost him and other oilmen millions of dollars."

I will have to buy Tague's book. I believe the oil monopolies and the cronies that are in control of that has control over most of what occurs in the world. Consider that wars are initiated that involve oil-rich nations, fossil fuel burning car engines continue to reign even though we have had the technology to replace them decades ago. I was very relieved when Tillerson left the post of Secretary of State. That was really scary to me.

It would make sense that any President who took a position that threatened the control of those oil monopolies would be a target.

Rex Ray said...

RB,

How’s this for the “fox guarding the hen house”; (p.195) “President Johnson ordered every document concerning the assassination of Kennedy to be locked up for 75 Years.”
Also, “Every FBI agent knew he would be fired if he talked about any of the FBI’s business.”

(p.191) “Hoover’s ego though he and the FBI were more important than Congress or the President, and referred itself as “Seat-of-Government”. He told Gerald Ford, “…So I, or my seat-of-government staff, have to approve ever one…”

(p.188) “Hoover kept politicians in line by having 17,000 pages of any ‘dirt’ on them. He hid evidence that kept men in prison over 30 years. Congressman Hale Boggs was on the Warren Commission and questioned why leads other that Oswald were not investigated. The leader, Lee Rankin, would say, “We’re here to close doors; not to open them.” Many lawyers quit. Boggs was trying to enforce the mandatory retirement age on Hoover. [Kennedy tried the same and see what happened to him.]

“When the plane was lost in Alaska that Boggs was on, a 39 day search was made by 40 military and 20 civilian aircraft. Two days after the crash Hoover received a Telex that pinpointed the downed plane and that there were at least two survivors, but he deleted the information. That plane or anyone on it has ever been found. It’s interesting to note that Bill Clinton took Boggs to the airport.”

Tague wrote (p.359) “Hoover was one of the most morally corrupt men to ever serve our country.”

(p.181) “After reluctantly signing off on the Warren report, Senator Russell went to President Johnson in the Oval Office and stated to him that he “Did not believe a word in the report.” And Johnson replied, “I don’t either”, and changed the subject. These comments were taped and still exist today.”

Christiane said...

Hello Mr. Kuter,
Thank you for your response. Rex Ray and I go back a ways and often don't see things the same way, but be assured he is very dear to me as a person. My regard and respect for Wade and his ministries transcend boundaries of political and theological differences and I consider him a blessing to those he serves and helps.

I admit I'm not a 'deep state' believer. I tend more to see the Russians as the enemy of our country in the person of Putin and his cronies. I do think our law enforcement, our military, and our CIA and FBI are trust-worthy. As for politics, I hope to vote for Biden in 2020, and I am more of a fan of Rachel Maddow than certain Fox News shock jock-types, so my 'sources' of info are more main-stream than isolated. But I believe that IN THIS COUNTRY, people are more free to think and feel and speak their minds than in any other country in the world and I welcome our diversity as a wholesome and healthy sign of a messy but necessary dialogue and debate that attempts to work out differences among us in ways that are productive and contribute towards the good of all of our people. I also believe that people are infinitely more important than any differences that divide them, which comes out of my faith that teaches me to 'listen to' and 'respect' persons I may disagree with, that they too may have a voice in our land and not be harassed or silenced.

It's complicated.

I did appreciate your response.

Rex Ray said...

(p.395) “While LBJ was a Senator, he gave Estes inside Government information that made Estes a multi-millionaire.”

(349) “The best information I have indicates the planning of JFK’s assignation started with LBJ and Edward Clark, LBJ’s main attorney about two years before the assignation. A string of murders that LBJ ordered began with Mac Wallace killing John Kinser [LBJ’s sister’s boyfriend] in 1951. Financial kickbacks with Billie Sol Estes was catching up with Vice President LBJ. The most prominent murder victim was of Federal Agriculture agent Henry Marshall.”

(p.350) Henry Marshall was looking into Billie Sol Estes’ dealings with LBJ, and when Marshall would not accept a bribe, Vice President LBJ ordered Mac Wallace to “take care” of Marshall.”

(p.396) “A short time later, Marshall was found dead on his ranch with a bolt-action rifle by his side. He was shot five times in his side. Sheriff Howard Stegall told the undertaker, Manley Jones to put suicide on the death certificate.” “LBJ as Vice President used his influence to get Texas authorities to cover up the murder.”

(p.389) “In 1962, Federal Marshall Clint Peoples was asked by Colonel Homer Garrison, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety to look into the mysterious death of Henry Marshall. Peoples interviewed Nolan Griffin, a gas station attendant near Marshall’s ranch. Griffin stated on the day of Marshall’s death a stranger had asked directions to Marshall’s ranch. Griffin described the man to a Texas Ranger artist. The picture was Mac Wallace. Peoples had investigated Mac Wallace at his murder trial in killing John Kinser.

(p.390) “In 1974, Clint Peoples retired from the Teas Ranges, and President Richard Nixon appointed Peoples as a U.S. Marshall of the Northern District of Texas. He continued to investigate Henry Marshall’s death and visited Billie Sole Estes in prison."

"On June 19,1963, Clint Peoples went public and stated that he had documentary evidence that Mac Wallace, Lyndon Johnson’s hit man, was one of the gunmen in the Texas School Depository in Dealey Plaza when President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas on November 22, 1963. Four days later he was killed in a one car accident.”

(p.406) “There was an unidentified fingerprint in the “Sniper’s Nest”. In 1998, it was found to be Mac Wallace’s.”

Rex Ray said...

Events not in the book.

This link is about LBJ’s ‘revenge’ for being caught hunting illegally. (Game warden wants to shoot their tires out as they flee.)
https://tpwmagazine.com/archive/2012/may/LLL-Simpson/

I believe this link is a ‘cover up’ of the same story.
https://tpwmagazine.com/archive/2013/mar/atissue/

People that are waiting hours for their doctor’s appointment is a good place to pass out an 8 page version of Tague’s book. On one occasion, a woman said, “My father went to grade school with LBJ. It was a known fact if you didn’t watch your lunch sack, LBJ would steel it.

I wonder how LBJ’s sister felt after she worked hard to get his “landslide win” to be a Senator, and with his ‘big money’ would not loan her and her boyfriend $5,000. But most of all, when she ‘knew’ he had her boyfriend murdered, her life went so far downhill it embarrassed LBJ so much it led to her murder which the book will tell.

Rex Ray said...

(p.411-412)

“LBJ’s sister, Josefa Johnson, was hospitalized several times for being an alcoholic. She was divorced after being married three times. Several legislators that knew LBJ went to a whorehouse where she worked as a prostitute. Her life style and loose lips had become a serious liability for Johnson’s political ambitions. She knew too many of her brother’s secrets. She died on December 25, 1961 after returning home from a Christmas party at the Vice President’s ranch. The death certificate was signed by a doctor who was not there. There was no autopsy, no inquest, no examination, embalmed the same day, and buried the next day. A continuing embarrassment for LBJ was now gone.”

“In 1984, Billie Sol Estes, who had been given immunity, told a Grand Jury about Cliff Carter and Mac Wallace bragging about how Wallace had killed Josefa Johnson on orders from her brother.”

Rex Ray said...

RB,

Were you able to find Tague’s book? This morning I found a link I’d overlooked. It looks like it’s length would be longer than Tague’s book. I skimmed through it for an hour. I've written some of it below the link.

http://johnsonbushandnixonkilljohnfkennedy.blogspot.com/

A former CIA agent, and Watergate conspirator E. Howard Hunt had a "deathbed confession" where he names the men who killed Kennedy. Hunt alleges on the tape that then Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson was involved in the planning and cover-up of the assassination, stating that LBJ, "Had an almost maniacal urge to become president, and he regarded JFK as an obstacle to achieving that."

Madeleine Brown tells a story of when she met with her lover Lyndon Johnson. "Lyndon, you know that a lot of people believe you had something to do with President Kennedy's assassination."
He shot up out the bed and began pacing and waving his arms screaming like a madman. I was scared.
"That's BS, Madeleine Brown!" he yelled. Don't tell me you believe that crap."
"Of course not," I answered meekly, trying to cool his temper.
"It was Texas oil and those! @#$% Renegade intelligence! @#$%&$ in Washington."

"What are you talking about?" I asked, my eyes bulging.
Hell, that! @#__$%_#__!@#$% Irish Mafia Kennedy - with advice from the Invisible Government - came out for suicidal cuts in the oil depletion allowance. More than 280 million dollars per year! He stopped half dozen mergers under the Anti-Trust Act. In '62's snag, the market dropped one hundred and thirty-seven billion! @#$% dollars. Steel fell fifty percent, and he had the impertinence to talk about 'rollback of prices or worse, a freeze. This was war, Madeleine, to some rich, fat cats in Texas you and I both know. He campaigned on an increased defense budget. Then he made plans to close fifty-two bases in 25 states, plus 25 overseas bases, and he was getting ready to quit in Southeast Asia. And for the first time in history, he had sent in one intelligence agency, the FBI, to dismember another agency, the CIA. America simply could not have this!"

"Who were the Texas oil men, Lyndon? Who are we talking about?" I asked boldly.
He turned and looked me straight in the eyes with a cold glare, saying, "Behind every success there is a crime. Do you remember what I told you years ago, Madeleine? You see nothing, you hear nothing, and you say nothing." As he stormed off to the bathroom, he added, "I can see that I've already told you too much. I should have listened to my own advice."
Madeleine Duncan Brown has no doubt that Lyndon told her the truth. She believes that LBJ and the Texas oil cartel did what they felt they had to do to protect their own interests.

Christiane said...

In light of how it is known that we will reap what we sow, I am wondering about the evangelical Christian take on this important topic from the Jewish tradition:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara


I had a conspiracy theory once and in the end, I felt I had jumped to conclusions that were based on some information that came from a past incident, and not on present facts. What was at the base of my 'theory' was fear and dread of possible mis-use of nuclear power in the hands of people with a radical agenda who had access to nuclear weapons in the Air Force, and my fears were fueled by some anti-Semitic goings-on at the Air Force Academy in Colorado which have since been corrected. There WAS an unfortunate incident involving the mis-handling of nuclear weaponry aboard Air Force craft being flown over the mainland of the continental USA. . . . and I put two and two together and came out with my own idea that the Air Force had within it some anti-American extremists seeking to do harm to our Constitutional system of government and therefore, to our American way of life.


So, for a while, I also was caught up in my own version of 'conspiracy' theory which now makes me more understanding of how it is that this can happen to other Americans when fear and dread of extremism takes over our own rational way of examining facts and considering proof and evidence that is verifiably credible.

But still, the ethics and morality of use of 'the evil speech' (Lashon ha ra) is something I am looking at for myself and in this regard, I am examining my own conscience, which I have been trained to do from a young age . . . I am responsible for my own words, and that is a heavy responsibility indeed. So for me, 'conspiracy theories' may be amusing and entertaining, but I cannot indulge in them for any serious purposes or foster them as 'the truth' when I have no verifiable proof.

I hope to understand what the evangelical community believes as to how we Christian people are responsible to God and to other persons for the nature of our speech because I think we have need now to consider our own part in any dialogue that targets innocent people. I admit my own weaknesses for speaking and writing without thinking things through, and I ask pardon of anyone I have injured along the way. I will need God's help to be more thoughtful before I speak or write in future myself. I must reckon my own part in the negativity that is so prevalent among people who may not realize the consequences of that negativity. This will not be easy to do.




Rex Ray said...

CHRISTIANE,

You said, “There was an unfortunate incident involving the mis-handling of nuclear weaponry aboard Air Force craft being flown over the mainland of the continental USA.”

I remember this subject came up long ago on Wade’s blog. Some Lieutenant in charge didn’t know it was a ‘live nuclear warhead’ and allowed it to be loaded on the plane that flew across the United States. They considered court-martialing the Base Commander, but because of his long record of service they let him retire. The reason I know is because his father was our neighbor.

I read your link about making untrue remarks, slander, gossip etc. Did you read my link of?

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/filestruth.htm

Has your past experience of believing a false conspiracy made you like the person that said, “My mind’s made up; don’t confuse me with the facts.” :) Or do you believe no one could be that evil?

The only time I remember hearing Johnson talk on the radio was in 1969 when he said he would not run again to be President; “IF ELECTED, I WILL NOT SERVE.”

I’m glad you made a comment; I was about to believe I was talking to the wind, or everybody had died. :)

Rex Ray said...

CHRISTIANE,

Teague’s book ends (p.426): “…may be as many as five shooters…complete mechanics of the killing I will leave to others…I try to present my story so you will understand the crime and think about what must be done.”

(p.419) JFK liked secret service Abraham Bolden, a black man, and behind closed doors became known as a “nigger lover”. “When Bolden tried to tell the Warren Commission about warnings of an attempt to be made on JFK’s life, Bolden was framed and sent to prison for five years. He wrote a book, “The Echo From Dealey Plaza”…read it and see how corrupt our government can get.”

(p.395-407) “Billie Sol Estes at age 18 was presented with an award by President Roosevelt for being America’s most outstanding farmer. He was a church-going Christian and known as Robin Hood to the poor. He did not allow boys and girls to swim in his pool at the same time. He helped pay for hundreds of young men’s college expenses; many were Black. He was worth $400 million in 1962, and funneled millions back to Johnson.

He and his three employees were indicted in April 1962. Cliff Carter was given orders to have Mac Wallace to get rid of the employees. They committed ‘suicide by carbon dioxide poising in their automobiles. [Wallace killed many by routing exhausted fumes into their cars.] “Estes told me that Cliff Carter bragged to him that he knew Wallace killed 17 people. Kyle Brown of Brady, Texas was present also.” “Estes went to prison and kept his mouth shut. He swears that what kept him alive was some old recorded telephone conversations with Johnson he had taped.”

(p.310) “In 1970, Wallace was pressing Clark for more money. It was decided he needed to be eliminated. His car was rigged so that exhaust fumes flowed into his car. He died when his car hit a bridge a mile from Tague’s property.”

Story of Dallas County Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig.

(p.145-146) “Craig heard a shrill whistle and saw a white male running down the Grassy Knoll and jump into a Nash Rambler station wagon.” “Marvin C. Robinson saw a man run down the Grassy Knoll and jump into a Nash Rambler station wagon. A picture taken, shows the Rambler’s passenger door is open near the Grassy Knoll on Elm Street.”

“Moments before, Richard Car saw a Rambler wagon picked up a man on a street that would lead to Elm Street.”

“Craig said the Warren Commission changed his story. Sherriff Decker (He was on the list that attended the “secret meeting” on page 355) fired him in 1967 because he would not stop telling his story.” “In 1967, a bullet grazed Craig’s head in a parking lot. In 1973, a car forced him off the road causing back injury. In 1974, he was shot by a shotgun. In early 1975, he was seriously injured when his car engine blew up. Later in 1975, he did a series of radio talk shows telling his story. Soon afterwards, May 15, 1975, he was found dead of a “self-inflicted’ gunshot wound.”

Headless Unicorn Guy said...

How did this blog become The Rex Ray Show?
(All Conspiracy, All the Time)?

As far as I'm concerned, "The Deep State" is just the latest Proper Code Words for [reverb] "The Jews" [end reverb].

"Oh, the more it changes
The more it stays the same;
And the Hand just rearranges
The players in the game."
-- Al Stewart, "Nostradamus", 1973(?)

Headless Unicorn Guy said...

Wade, I never knew that "The Rich Man and Lazarus" was code words for "Who REALLY Shot JFK?"

SO LET'S GET BACK ON-SUBJECT!

This interpretation-by-context of the parable makes the most sense of any I've heard. (As well as showing us just how snarky that Rabbi from Nazareth could get. A masterpiece of making a point.)

Rex Ray said...

Headless Unicorn Guy,

Why do you want to get back on the subject? I’ve made two comments on it, and you’ve made NONE. I believe you’re like a smart lawyer when he cannot refute facts of a witness, he attacks the witness.

How is this for facts? People believe the location of shots are the ones they hear.

(p.44) “Policeman Marrion Baker was five cars behind Kennedy. When he heard shots and saw pigeons fly from the roof, he believed shots were from the flat roof. On the way there, he pulled his gun on Oswald in the lunch room.”

(p.17) “Dallas Chief of police, Jesse Curry drove the lead car that was near the underpass when shots were fired. His commands were recorded on the police radio channel: “Get men on top of the underpass, see what has happened up there. Go up on the overpass. Put everyone of my men there…Notify station five to move all men available out of my department back into the railroad yards and try to determine what happened and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators can get in there.”

Headless Guy, since the CIA doesn’t want Trump to release all the files on the assignation, do you think they might not like me talking? Do you think they check all bloggers?