"I went to Jerusalem to become acquainted (Gk. istoria) with Cephas" - Paul's words from Galatians 1:18.

SWBTS Donors and the Folly of Funding Scrolls and Museums Instead of Scholars and Ministries

Offices of Square Mile Energy (Gary Loveless) in Houston
The new leadership of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary is worthy of Southern Baptist's full confidence.  College graduates from our church who are interested in ministry are now considering enrolling at Southwestern, the first time SWBTS has been a viable option for over a dozen years. The future is bright.

However, there remain a few people who need to completely sever ties with Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Some of them are employed by the school. The new administrative leadership will handle the resolution of their employment with professional courtesy and class.

Others who need to completely sever ties with the school are financial donors. Seventeen donors to Southwestern to be exact

These SWBTS donors have made a tragic mistake that could have ongoing consequences for both the school and for them personally.

They have signed a letter written by Houston oilman Gary Loveless, a letter in which Mr. Loveless lambasts the Executive Committee of Southwestern for their unanimous vote to sever ties with former SWBTS President Paige Patterson. Mr. Loveless is a close personal friend of Paige Patterson, a former trustee at SWBTS, and a previous multi-million dollar donor to SWBTS. 

Many news outlets have published Gary Loveless' letter.

I have three serious questions that I'd like to ask Mr. Loveless about his letter. I've called his office in Houston (twice) and left my personal cell number. I've not heard back from him  I have friends in North Carolina who have also read the letter. Megan and Vincent Lively have asked me what I thought of it. I told them that before I wrote a response, I wanted to speak with Gary Loveless. Another friend from North Carolina, a man named Wade Smith,  has also visited with me about the letter.  I think Mr. Loveless and the other SWBTS donors would rather this Wade (me) ask questions more so than the other Wade

Meet Gary Loveless


Gary and Stephanie Loveless
Gary and Stephanie Loveless seem like a nice couple. They are members of Second Baptist, Houston, Texas. They are involved in philanthropic work around the world. They are people who give evidence of desiring to serve Christ and His Kingdom.

But they seem to me to be a tad naive. 

Or, to be more specific, Gary and Stephanie Loveless may be guilty of "hero-worship,"

Hero-worship is the deadly disease that plagues many Southern Baptists, particularly since 1979 and the beginning of the Southern Baptist Conservative Resurgence.

Scottish philosopher Thomas Carlisle (1795-1881) says hero-worship is a part of human societies throughout the world:
"Society is founded on Hero-worship. Human association rests on what we may call a Hero-archy (a Government of Heroes). Society everywhere is some representation, not insupportably inaccurate, of a graduated Worship of Heroes—reverence and obedience done to men."
Carlyle is correct about societies in this world.

But Christ's Kingdom is not of this world. Christians are called to worship none but Christ.

Gary Loveless gave over a million dollars to Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary to purchase fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls. He also assisted in the fundraising required to permanently display those fragments at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Gary did so because Paige and Dorothy Patterson told Gary that the scroll fragments were real Dead Sea Scroll fragments. The Seminary, the Pattersons told Gary Loveless, would benefit from having them.

Gary believed his heroes.

The Houston Chronicle reported six years ago how Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary came into possession of the scrolls. It all started when Gary and Stephanie Loveless were on a tour of Israel with Paige and Dorothy Patterson in 2009.
Gary Loveless said they were busy visiting the usual sights of Holy Land travelers, and the group stopped at Kando's Shop, now run by Mr. Kando's son, William Kando Jr. Stephanie Loveless purchased a small oil lamp, and the couple returned to the tour bus, with her husband thinking he'd just gotten out of a pricey store with way more money in his pocket than he expected.
Then the Pattersons waved at him to return to the shop. Kando had just made them an offer they couldn't refuse: His family had decided that their Dead Sea Scroll fragments, locked away in a Swiss vault for decades, should be on public display. And they wanted them to be exhibited with his treasured friends at Southwestern Baptist.
The Lovelesses knew it was time for the important work of Christian charity - and they ultimately became the major sponsors of the exhibit with their $1 million donation.
 Let that visual sink in.

Khallil Kando at his Jerusalem Shop
The President and First Lady of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary are running out of a souvenir trinket shop in Jerusalem with hands raised, shouting at their millionaire friend (Mr. Loveless) to come and hear of "Dead Sea Scroll fragments locked away in a Swiss vault for decades."

Cynthia Loveless must have been rubbing her recently purchased oil lamp and a Hebrew genie popped out.

Gary Loveless didn't seem bothered by the fact Mr. Kando kept these artifacts a secret for decades.

Nobody seemed to question why a souvenir gift shop owner, known for "making deals" might suddenly want to make a deal with a rich Texas oilman.

The Hebrew scrolls were real. The Pattersons said so.

I've considered running into Square Mile Energy in Houston with my hand raised, breathlessly shouting:
"Mr. Loveless, the Ark of the Covenant is hidden in my basement in a safe I bought from Lowes and I'm wondering if you'll buy it from me for two million dollars? If you position it properly at SWBTS, you may be able to replicate the Shekina glory as the sun shines through the stained-glass windows"
Think I'm being harsh?

Do you think that questioning the authenticity of SWBTS Hebrew scrolls is off-limits to proper Christian decorum?

CBS News doesn't think so.

Hebrew manuscript scholars don't think so.

The Research Project administered by the University of Agder, Norway, doesn't think so.

But Paige and Dorothy Patterson say they’re real. Dorothy Patterson authenticated them on five trips to Zurich.

Her son, Armour Patterson, wrote the story of the intense negotiations for the scrolls in a self-published e-book entitled Much Clean Paper for Little Dirty Paper.

Southwestern Seminary Buys Hebrew Scroll Fragments (Thanks Gary!)



In 2011/2012, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary - through the generosity of donor Gary Loveless and under the leadership of Paige and Dorothy Patterson - dedicated a 3,500 seat chapel with stained-glassed images of the Pattersons and other SBC Conservative Resurgence leaders, opened an exhibt space for the recently purchased Hebrew scrolls, and began charging $25.00 per person to come see what God has done.

Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary would later deem the Dead Sea Scroll Exhibit a success.
Self-proclaimed successes always remind me of the Iraqi Minister of Information.

SWBTS was in serious financial trouble during the years 2008-2012, the same time seminary donors and trustees like Gary Loveless were busy building monuments and dedicating museums. For example:
1. SWBTS student enrollment declined to historic lows.
2. Southwestern Seminary stopped contributing to professor's retirement to save money.
3. The SWBTS Counseling Program was closed in 2010 due to a budget shortfall.
4. Faculty positions were cut.
5. The Dead Sea Scroll fragments eventually cost the school millions of dollars. 
As Gary Loveless was contributing millions of dollars to Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary to build museums and monuments in honor of the Battle for the Bible led by the Pattersons,  the seminary contined to struggle financially. Even if the fragments were actually real, is it wise for seminary leaders to lose focus of the school’s chartered mission?

Fiduciary responsibility for Southwestern Seminary and oversight of ministry training at SWBTS didn't seem nearly as important to SWBTS trustee Gary Loveless as purchasing and displaying the Dead Sea Scroll fragments.

I wrote about Southwestern trustee Gary Loveless over eight years ago. In a post dated January 29, 2010, I expressed concern over the closing of the SWBTS Counseling Program, a center for training pastors how to effectively counsel those in emotional and spiritual need. In that post, I directed readers to an interview with CBS News (link now removed), Gary Loveless revealed his motive for giving the money to purchase the Dead Sea Scroll fragments (quote):
"One day, when we are all standing before Him (Jesus Christ), and we got millions of people out there, when I hold my hand up, He will know who I am. That's really, for me, you know, what it is all about."
Mr. Loveless, there's a lot more people besides Jesus who now know who you are.

Additional information regarding Gary Loveless and his connections to Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, including how he led the capital campaign for the now-defunct SWBTS Houston campus (note: the facilities, not the school), can be found in this SWBTS article (page 43).

As someone recently said to me, "Gary Loveless has been the captain of every sinking ship SWBTS has launched in the last dozen years." Gary Loveless' threat of withdrawal from involvement in SWBTS matters may, in the end, be helpful for future seminary accreditation.


Three Serious Questions about Mr. Loveless' Letter to SWBTS Trustees


With that background regarding Mr. Gary Loveless,  I am asking three serious questions of him regarding his letter to SWBTS trustees. The letter is public, so my questions to Mr. Gary Loveless are appropriately public.
1. Who disclosed to you that Dr. Patterson "has no recollection" of the 2003 rape allegation at Southeastern Seminary, that there is "no proof" that he is speaking dishonestly, and that the 2003 "alleged victim" has given "contradictory statements?"
2. Who disclosed to you that the 2015 SWBTS female seminary student you reference in your letter (p. 5) "had engaged in consensual sexual activiites on more than one occasion and those acts had taken place in public buildings at the Seminary, and that campus security were shown the nude pictures she texted to the male student....(and) that she begged Dr. Patterson to not call the police"?
3.  Who led you to believe that "Chairman Ueckert ...acted in a premeditated manner and with malice aforethought to intentionally mislead others, while simulteanerously defaming and disparaging the honorable name of Dr. Patterson"?
Mr. Loveless, these are serious questions. I tried to get a response privately, and it's unfortunate we've not connected.

Your letter causes several concerns. It is possible that some very privileged information in student files may have been released to you without the students' consent. It also seems the letter publicly demeans the character and testimony of an "alleged" (your word) rape victim. Finally, if you are truly concerned about Southwestern Seminary, particularly as a recent SWBTS trustee (2007-2017), then you should know that public statements impugning the motives and character of  SWBTS trustee chairman Kevin Ueckert, while at the same time publicly declaring SWBTS trustee Bart Barber's comments to the 2018 Southern Baptist Convention "false and slanderous," are detrimental to the institution you once served.

I will not presume to answer the three questions for you Mr. Loveless, but after examining your ten-year legacy of serving as a trustee of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, it seems that Dr. and Mrs. Paige Patterson have again waved their hands and asked you to come and listen.

And like all followers in hero-archy societies, you seem to want to believe your heroes to the neglect of both logic and evidence.

45 comments:

drstevej said...

Doesn't look like you'll be getting your own stained glass window in the Chapel Shrine.

Christiane said...


"One day, when we are all standing before Him (Jesus Christ), and we got millions of people out there, when I hold my hand up, He will know who I am. That's really, for me, you know, what it is all about."
Something very sad about this. As if the man felt he needed to 'purchase' Our Lord's attention on the Last Day. The poor man doesn't understand.

Years ago, 'gifts' given to corrupt Church leaders were made by people who TRUSTED that those gifts would benefit their immortal souls and the souls of their loved-ones in purgatory. But this corruption ended, or so I thought.


Jn Meadow said...

Thank you Wade. I've been waiting for something like what you just posted.

Anonymous said...

Ultimately, the matter here is the apparent privaledged information this man has. It would seem, he has come to these allegations and “evidences” by way of Paige Patterson.

Did Paige Patterson verbally tell him or hand over record? If so, Paige Patterson is now a felon for breaking FERPA law.

Anonymous said...

Powerful message in your post, Wade, and equally troubling are the actions and intent of the aforementioned individual.

But the English major is me in wondering one thing: should the word determinantal have been detrimental?

Keep up the good work.

A.Non A'Mouse

David said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Debbie Kaufman said...

This post says it all and so informative. The questions are delicious.

Jacque said...

I would REALLY LIKE to see the answers to your questions.

Bonnie said...

Wade,

Thank-you for this great article and for exposing the Gary Loveless letter for what it is-an attempt at extortion. I did some research on him also, but was unable to articulate my findings as well as you did here. You have consistently led me to the truth since I first became aware of you in May this year. I even bought your book, "Hardball Religion" and read it the night before I was leaving the country on a missions trip with SWBTS. I found your book informative and helpful reading. As a current student I believe we are headed in the right direction with Dr. Bingham at the helm. I have confidence in the faculty and the trustees.

Shawn C. Madden said...

The true marks of the lambs of the Shepherd are found in Matt 25, not in a donor's slip or a stained glass window.

Christiane said...

Hello Shawn Madden,

you read my mind

The Baptist Blogger said...

Interesting byline on this article about Southwestern's Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit. Apparently, SWBTS anticipated 400,000 people to come see the scrolls. I wonder how many actually came? I know the seminary was about $5 million in the red after the exhibit closed.

http://www.bpnews.net/38149/dead-sea-scrolls-bible-history-brought-to-life-in-seminary-exhibit

Sharayah we hardly knew ya.

Clif Cummings said...

Wade,
The SWBTS Houston Campus is not defunct. It is named after Dalton Havard, former Pastor and Pastor emeritus of Sugar Creek Baptist Church. It is named Southwestern Seminary’s Havard School of Theological Studies.
You have been misinformed.
Clif

Wade Burleson said...

Clif,

I believe my wording has been misleading.

The Houston campus (buildings and faciliites) no longer exist. See here: https://swbts.edu/news/releases/luncheon-celebrates-exciting-vision-southwestern-s-houston-campus/

SWBTS sold the property (Park Place) and now the extension is meeting in a local Southern Baptist Churches facitliies.

I apologize for the confusion.

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

We were out of town and didn’t read your post until we got home. I had written this before your last post was printed:

CRYBABY DONORS demands are in newspapers.

You threaten to withhold your money unless you get your way in having Patterson reinstated from being fired for breaking the law.

You have drunk Patterson’s Kool Aid. You don’t care if SWBTS may be closed for lack of funds.

You don’t care if there’s less God called people to carry out the Great Commission.

You want to runover the SBC when they voted 90% NOT to do what you want done.

SHAME ON YOU.

To paraphrase your demands: We’re going to bomb SWBTS unless we get our way.

Go ahead and do what you want because the Lord will provide more than the amount of your money to carry out His work.
Fri Jul 06, 09:06:00 AM 2018

www.newsweek.com/2016/10/28/dead-sea-scroll-fragments-fake-experts-suspect-511224.html
This link states:

“American Steve Green, the evangelical Christian heir to the Hobby Lobby craft chain fortune and the force behind the Museum of the Bible, an endeavor Newsweek covered earlier this year, has spent millions on the new finds. One fragment sold to the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary conveniently refers to the biblical prohibition against homosexuality in the Book of Leviticus.

The problem is, experts suspect many of these sensational and pricy new fragments are expertly crafted fakes. For example, the fragment references passages in Leviticus 18 and 20 that contain the two strongest condemnations of homosexuality in the Bible. Such a strong coincidence is a flag of fakery.”

Nancy2 said...

So, all that money Loveless "donated" to SWBTS was not to support the seminary, but to buy cheap trinkets at high prices to glorify and please Paige and Dotty? Hmmmmm.

Julie Anne said...

Wade, thank you for being a steady drip highlighting the mess that has been going on for years in the SBC, now specifically concerning Paige Patterson, SBTS, and the goings on. I feel a special dripping kinship with you :)

Rex Ray said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mirele said...

Wade,

I'd just point out that the "scrolls" aren't scrolls as we think of them--long pieces of parchment rolled up. These are very literally fragments, smaller than a sticky note or a credit card, yet selling for half a million dollars.

The scholars who run the Lying Pen of Scribes website have done amazing work categorizing the various fragments which have emerged onto the market since 2002, which includes the fragments at SWBTS. They call these post-2002 fragments "Dead Sea Scroll-like", which indicates they do not have enough confidence in the fragments to call them authentic.

Here's a list of the DSS-like fragments with known or reasonably ascertained prices:

https://lyingpen.com/2018/03/27/the-post-2002-dss-like-fragments-a-price-list/

Number 16 would be of interest to people who are curious about what is going on at SWBTS. Apparently a family donated $500,000 to buy these very tiny scraps of parchment which may actually be fakes. Astonishing.

Bill Jones said...

"One day, when we are all standing before Him (Jesus Christ), and we got millions of people out there, when I hold my hand up, He will know who I am. That's really, for me, you know, what it is all about."

(1) I know Jesus in this life, and He knows me. Thus, He will know me in the next.
(2) However, I don't desire to stand out from the crowd. Christ taught that all we do should be done with the intent to serve others and bring glory to God, not to ourselves.
(3) Mr. Loveless apparently thinks that Jesus is as shallow as he himself is, that He would be impressed by his million-dollar purchase of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Remember the widow's mite?
(4) If he believes he has to do something like this for Jesus to "know" who he is, then he is saying that Jesus doesn't yet know who he is. So I have to conclude that Mr. Loveless doesn't yet know Jesus.

Anonymous said...

Hi Wade (and all!),

I have read you for quite some time, first as a student at SWBTS and now as one of its alumni. The Loveless letter lived up to its name. Our motivation for philanthropy should be the love for the Kingdom and for our neighbors, not from vainglorious attempts to purchase favor from the God who lacks nothing.

I would like to clarify a bit, however, regarding the DSS fragments. You are correct in shading doubt around the authenticity of the SWBTS fragments (the late Peter Flint refereed to them as the "Dead Sea Scraps") in as much as Eibert Tigchelaar and his modest research group have essayed to prove the fabrication of 21st century fragments. The ABC article is a reprint from a LiveScience article--itself dependent on Tigchelaar's claims (as you can see from Jarus's October 10, 2016 LiveScience article).The other major critic is Justnes, who builds upon Tigchelaar's claims. These claims center on circumstantial arguments. One is about provenance--a very important matter in authenticating. Fragments from the Kando family are regarded by the majority of scholars as authentic until proven otherwise (none have ever been proven forgeries). Those that are not from the Kando family are considered spurious until proven otherwise. Tigchelaar has labeled scraps from the Kando family as unprovenanced because they were not a part of the original release of fragments in the mid-20th century. His label of unprovenanced, however, is not the same as forgery. It is just a clever technique to engender debate. The second piece of evidence is the content of the scraps. They have argued that one of the SWBTS fragments contains Lev 18's prohibition against homosexuality. He has suggested that they were sold to baptist because baptist are homophobic. Not true. The scrap does come from Lev 18, but the itty-bitty fragment does not contain the verses about homosexuality. You wouldn't know that unless you've held them and read them--something neither Tigchelaar nor Justnes has done. They just know the press release and exhibit catalog.

I would suggest caution in falling for shoddy scholarship. Both Tigchelaar's and Justnes's critiques are weak to persuade against the reputation of the Kando family and of the scraps themselves. Be patient and wait for the Brill volume on the SWBTS fragments to be published--if they are forgeries, it will come out in the wash.

Wade Burleson said...

Anonymous,

Good comment! I will take your caution to heart.

Thank you.

Christiane said...

"Our motivation for philanthropy should be the love for the Kingdom and for our neighbors, not from vainglorious attempts to purchase favor from the God who lacks nothing."


My first thought when I heard was this:

"Imagine all of these 'supporters' who are 'wealthy' (in the material sense) using their money in 'support' of the person who had fired Dr. Sheri Klouda, who then sold her own blood to help pay the medical bills for her sick husband . . . .

I get a headache thinking about this. "


I don't know what Mr. Loveless's faith includes, and I am aware that he and his wife do involve themselves in philanthropic charities which speaks well for them;

but he does seem not to realize how close Our Lord IS to him, and always has been, and always will be.

I have to think he needs some spiritual counseling because of the content of this, his quote:
""One day, when we are all standing before Him (Jesus Christ), and we got millions of people out there, when I hold my hand up, He will know who I am. That's really, for me, you know, what it is all about."

I hope someone helps him. I don't think Paige Patterson is the one to do it, no.

Rex Ray said...

Bill Jones,

There’s many Christians that believe false beliefs like those who believe you MUST be baptize to be saved; and if you’re baptized without believing that, you’re still lost. But they do know Christ.

So I think Loveless is saved regardless of him believing his ‘works’ will make him known to Christ.


OFF TOPIC REVISION
The newspaper said the trapped soccer team were 6 miles into the cave, but Google said 2 ½ miles. They showed a ‘vertical map’ of the cave which revealed where it was under water in sections. The sections went from where they are to the next ‘dry area.’

I scaled the map from the boys and it looked like this with Water being (W) and land or mud being (L). Measurements are in feet.

W=264; L=1,676; W=1,154; L=1,914; W=1,418; L=4,954; W=1,188; L=660.

P.S. I’ve removed my most hair brain rescue I’ve ever heard in my life. :)

Ron West said...

Wade,
If, as I have read, the millions given by this letter signers have gone to building the stained glass window shrine to the conservative resurgence, the questionable Dead Sea scroll scraps and the Patterson retirement home, SWBTS would be better off if they never gave another cent. All of these gifts are an embarrassment to those who love SWBTS and want it to return to its history as a conservative theologically sound seminary training pastors. At a time when the enrollment was dropping and staff were being let go, it is disappointing that they would direct their money to be used in that way and that the trustees allowed it.
I am encouraged by the fact that Dr. Bingham is in his position. I was impressed by his humble, transparent report at the convention and even more impressed after I had the chance to talk to him in person later that day.

Wade Burleson said...

Ron,

Well stated.

I agree. Even if the scraps are real.

Clif Cummings said...

No apologies necessary. I’ve since found out from a good friend and SWBTS alum that apparently in the midst of all the PP news, the Houston Campus which was an old church site has been sold at a significantly reduced rate and the Campus Dean, Denny Autrey resigned shortly thereafter. The Houston extension campus has been moved to Sagemont Baptist Church.

David said...

Clif, I asked Denny Autrey about this yesterday. Old Park Place site is for sale, but not yet sold. School will move to Sagemont in late July. He didn’t say anything about having resigned.

Anonymous said...

Just a perspective but I really don't the hear much of the Gospel of the "Kingdom" being preached very well in Western culture. It's not based on how well a person tithes like Patterson espouses. On many occasions, Jesus's teaching on giving actually went against tithing logic (Matthew 14) and not everyone needed to tithe, just the farmers. In the Kingdom age, the martyrs are given great authority because they have given up so much in this life. I tend to think when the rewards in heaven come, many will be surprise. People like Richard Wurmbrand will given much more than Christians who live like the elites and tithe.

Anonymous said...

I would add an additional question for Loveless and others: On what grounds do they find it acceptable that they above others should appoint five members to their desired committee? This would set an awful precedent in our denomination to allow money to steer us so flagrantly. I am not assuming that pecuniary motives have not in the past to some degree directed out paths, but surely this would be an unprecedented affront to our polity and our integrity. This suggestion alone is all one needs to hear to throw out the letter entirely. Perhaps without putting this requirement forward, it would be permissible for those invested (financially or otherwise) to challenge the board in an open letter, but the motives are self-serving: "We are furious at the executive board and cannot bring about the change we want as is, so we are demanding equal authority as the board in appointing our own five members to a special committee with the pretext of reappointing Patterson's benefits." There's no humility here. Only pride. And we know what the Good Book teaches us about pride.

Anonymous said...

I don't believe anyone has mentioned the 1978 Antiquities law in Israel. It is illegal to remove any manmade object older than 1700.

Was the shop owner a licensed dealer (there are very few). Were the fragments documented as being legally obtained? Jesus told us to respect civil authorities and obey laws.

In addition, I don't believe the Bible would see this as a wise purchase without consulting experts. “Without counsel plans fail, but with many advisers they succeed.” Proverbs 15:22 (ESV).

Anonymous said...

The tickets to see the scrolls at SWBTS were $40. I was disappointed at the outrageous price. There are Dead Sea scrolls abailable for viewing not nn Denver for $9 + processing fee.

Christiane said...

To Anonymous Who Wrote, this:

"Just a perspective but I really don't the hear much of the Gospel of the "Kingdom" being preached very well in Western culture."

my understanding is that many evangelicals are turning towards Russia and Putin as they turn away from 'western' Christianity and 'western' civilization. One of the leaders of this movement is Franklin Graham.
It appears to be a 'Christian nation'/political movement, rather than anything remotely related to the Kingdom of Our Lord.

To be honest, the spirituality of eastern Christianity is very profound in its Christian humility before the Lord;
but what Putin is dishing out seems more of a 'culture war' attack against the 'others' that the Christian Right in our own country see as 'the enemy'. Putin wants an alliance with the American Christian Right, but it is not for the purposes of 'the Kingdom of Our Lord', no. Apparently the process has already begun.




Anonymous said...

Christiane,

By all means Russia was not considered to be the anti-thesis of that comment. Was thinking more of indigenous churches in other countries that are willing to endure persecution,not Eastern Orthodoxy.

Christiane said...

Hello Anonymous,

Yes, I see. Thank you for clarifying that. My apologies for assuming otherwise.

Christiane said...

FINALLY, an answer to prayer

pushback against evil:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/politics/senate-nato-vote-trump/index.html

Anonymous said...

It appears that the Loveless seven page letter to SWBTS Trustees may have been written by an attorney sourced by PP.

Happy to B Alive said...

Anonymous, can you give any links documenting that the Loveless seven page letter may have been written by an attorney? Tried checking on the web but didn't find anything. Anything more you can share would be appreciated.

Anonymous said...

And the beat goes on . . . separate from the DDS themselves is another interesting line of inquiry one could pursue: At what other universities and colleges are these 17 signers also serving as trustees? To what other schools do they donate money? And what trail to they leave behind them? What other women have been discriminated against and hurt? Gina Headrick, for instance, is a trustee at Cedarville University, appointed a couple of years after Patterson loyalist and protege Thomas White was appointed as President. As a CU alumnus, I would like to see her removed from that board, now that we know how her husband and she operate (strangely their last name was misspelled as "Hendrick" on the Loveless letter, but it should be "Headrick"). She has no place on a board at a Christ-centered institution, which doesn't claim to be Patterson-centered.

dar win said...

1. Who disclosed to you that Dr. Patterson "has no recollection" of the 2003 rape allegation at Southeastern Seminary, that there is "no proof" that he is speaking dishonestly, and that the 2003 "alleged victim" has given "contradictory statements?" If you were to have read their letter, they ask for evidence or an apology. Is that too logical for people to understand? Btw, the media disclosed :has no recollection" but they may have heard it from Patterson himself. It does not matter, Mrs. Colter's letters proves that she lied about the whole thing and that the executive trustees at #SWBTS acted prematurely when they vetoed the general boards vote. Not to mention that what they did was unbiblical, unethical, and unlawful.

dar win said...

2. Who disclosed to you that the 2015 SWBTS female seminary student you reference in your letter (p. 5) "had engaged in consensual sexual activiites on more than one occasion and those acts had taken place in public buildings at the Seminary, and that campus security were shown the nude pictures she texted to the male student....(and) that she begged Dr. Patterson to not call the police"? There was a day that Baptist called this fornication. Let me ask you a couple of questions, "Are you ok with seminary students sleeping around? Do you believe seminary students are above practicing fornication? Sending nude photos?

dar win said...

3. "Who led you to believe that "Chairman Ueckert ...acted in a premeditated manner and with malice aforethought to intentionally mislead others, while Who led you to believe that "Chairman Ueckert ...acted in a premeditated manner and with malice aforethought to intentionally mislead others, while simultaneously defaming and disparaging the honorable name of Dr. Patterson" I think this is obvious, Chairman Uerkert led them to believe this by his own actions and the actions of the executive board that consists of about 10 who overruled and vetoed the decision of about 40.

dar win said...

Great article about why this a bad decision by the executive board of trustees. Article by Norman Geisler. http://normangeisler.com/why-firing-paige-patterson-was-a-mistake/

Anonymous said...

I can't stop laughing that Patterson convinced his friend to buy them for him! Patterson is a crook. Seriously the guy ran things like a criminal. Southern Baptists are some of the most mean-spirited people I know. I have no way of understanding how they can take verses out of the Bible that are not that harsh and spin them into a type of scripture that kills the spirit and soul of a person. The conclusions that they come to and the type of theology they spin is mind-boggling to me.

Anonymous said...

From talking to the trustees, it seems there are no documents that prove that Patterson and Miss Megan Nichols ever met. Some feel this is a political move by the executive trustees that want to appoint a new president before they have to rotate off. I have said from the get go that the true motive behind all of this will be revealed when the new president is named.