"I went to Jerusalem to become acquainted (Gk. istoria) with Cephas" - Paul's words from Galatians 1:18.

Spirit of the Living God, Ashton Davis, Enid, OK

This song, sung by Asthon Davis at Emmanuel Enid's REFUGE worship service on October 15, 2017, moved me when I heard it live, but its just as moving hearing it again on YouTube. Our church is blessed with some talented folks. Ashton is a senior at Enid High School and is called to lead out in worship for the Kingdom of Christ. ------

12 comments:

Rex Ray said...

OFF TOPIC

I don’t have speakers that work. It’s a shame for no comments. A couple of days ago I put this on Martin Luther’s post. Probably no one will ever see it so I’ll put it here.

Baptists are NOT Protestants because they were never part of the Catholic Church. They protested baptizing babies for salvation and their opponents named them Anabaptist. They eventually became known as Baptist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptism states Anabaptist were persecuted by Protestants and Catholics during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.

One town had the head of an Anabaptist on ever fence post for 15 miles.

Wade Burleson said...

Rex,

I am aware of the two competng views of the origin of Baptists. Many, like Paige Patterson (and you) believe Baptists were never part of the Roman Catholic Church, but were rather “Ana-Baptists,” dissenters of Roman Catholic teacher throughout the Dark Ages (AD 500-1500). Others, like Baptist historian Tom Nettles, believe that Baptists were part of the Anglican Church in England and “separated” over doctrinal issues. Of course, Anglicans are an off-shoot of Roman Catholics.

Many Baptists disagree over the origin of Baptists, but I sure understand your position and am sympathetic to it - thought I see both sides.

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

http://jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/trail_of_blood_jm_carroll.htm

"THE TRAIL OF BLOOD" or Following the Christians Down Through the Centuries From The Days of Christ to the Present Time.”

http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/carroll.j.m.bio.html

“J. M. Carroll is most noted for his booklet The Trail of Blood, a series of notes he used in giving lectures on Baptist history that was first published in 1931. The Trail of Blood Chart is here.”

Wade, when Carroll died in 1931, his large library of history was given to SWBTS. His picture and historical chart of all denominations was portrayed on one of the walls of SWBTS. They were removed when Fundamentalists high jacked the SBC.

I believe Baptists were revealed when Peter said, “We believe that we are all saved the same way, by the undeserved grace of the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 15:11)

I never thought I would agree with Paige Patterson on anything. :)

Rex Ray said...

Dr. Brent Cook, a theology professor at Bob Jones University found, while performing research for his doctoral dissertation, that none of the documents cited in The Trail of Blood exist in any of the libraries in the world, so every quote or reference is essentially falsified, making the booklet a hoax.

Wade, My sisters went to Bob Jones University and wondered why they made fun of Baptist.

They were expelled which is not too bad since Billy Graham was expelled before they were.

Wade Burleson said...

Rex,

I thought you’d get a kick about “agreeing with P. Patterson.” :)

I am very familiar with the Trail of Blood by B.H. Carroll - read it several times. Don’t agree with Carroll’s conclusions, but respect him.

Interesting tidbit about Dr. Cook. I never heard it before.

Will do some more research into it.

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

I see the roots of Baptists and Catholics at the First Church Counsel in Acts 15.

Peter, Paul, and Barnabas had ‘Jesus plus nothing’, and the others had Jesus plus rules.

Yes, you sort of yanked my chain with Patterson. :)

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

One reason I believe Baptists were never Protestants is from the authority I respect the most; my father. :)

Have you heard of the book “The Baptist story…THE TRAIL OF BLOOD by A. A. Davis, Pastor First Baptist Church Nowata, Oklahoma?

My father has written notes in the copy I have.

His book was written 1952 and contains J.M. Carroll’s chart. He has added things such as “Great Jerusalem Conference”, “Paul – Barnabas – Mark First Journey”. “Paul – Silas Second Journey”, and “Paul’s Third Journey”. He shows Ana Baptists from 151 A.D. to about 1500 A.D. where it changes to Baptists. He shows Catholics split in 869 A.D. into Greek Catholics and Roman Catholics. He shows “Hard Shell Baptists” (didn’t believe in missions) started in 1832.

Wade Burleson said...

Rex,

I have not read A.A. Davis' book - but look forward to getting it and reading it.

Rex Ray said...

Wade,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptists#Anabaptist_influence_view

1. After selecting this link:
2. Select the first “Baptist Wikipedia”.
3. Go to “Contents”.
4. Select “1 Origins”.
5. Select “1.2 Anabaptist influence view”.
6. Read “Perpetuity and Succession View” which states:

Perpetuity and succession view
Main article: Baptist secessionism
“Prior to the 20th century, some Baptist historians wrote from the PERPETUITY that Baptists had existed since the time of Christ. However, the Southern Baptist Convention passed resolutions rejecting this view in 1859...

The PERPETUITY view is often identified with The Trail of Blood, a booklet of five lectures by J.M. Carroll published in 1931. Other Baptist writers who advocate the successionist theory of Baptist origins are John T. Christian, Thomas Crosby, G. H. Orchard, J. M. Cramp, William Cathcart, Adam Taylor and D. B. Ray .

This view was also held by English Baptist preacher, Charles Spurgeon as well as Jesse Mercer, the namesake of Mercer University.”

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Rex Ray said...

Wade,

I have never liked to eat ‘crow’ but here I will. A favorite TV show we like to watch is “Monk”. Often he will look at something and say: “It’s here but I can’t see it; why can’t I see it?”

That’s the way I looked at J.M. Carroll’s chart about Anabaptist; the most hated name at that time in the world. They were killed by the thousands.

I thought Anabaptist became Baptists, but that’s NOT what Carroll’s chart shows. His “dots” are Baptists that start in the days of Jesus and NOT after Anabaptist.

One belief I didn’t like about Anabaptist is they practiced polygamy as shown in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptism

Anabaptist still exists today but with different names as shown by:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptism#Today

Some names are Hutterites, Amish, and Mennonites.

Carroll’s chart shows that Baptists were called “Paulicians” during the dark ages (about 450 A.D. to 1620 A.D.)

Wade Burleson said...

Rex,

You, among all men, are wise indeed.

You will eat crow, while others avoid the dish as if their lives depended on it! :)

The "Ana-Baptists became Baptists" is a common mantra of many, including our friend PP.

I don't agree with the assessment - drawing the same conclusion you have expertly stated in this comment.

But I find it meaningless to argue over this matter. It is of little consequence to me, but I find if you challenge the "Ana-Baptist became Baptist" mantra, you must be prepared for argumentation ad-infinitum. So typically I just remain quiet.

Thanks for the comment.