"I went to Jerusalem to become acquainted (Gk. istoria) with Cephas" - Paul's words from Galatians 1:18.

The Evil that Comes from Ignorance: Obama's ISIS

Barak Obama has put our nation and the world at risk.

The President has failed to identify ISIS as a religiously motived Islamic movement bent on world domination. He prefers the acronym ISIL, and calls ISIS a 'cult.' Our President is so fearful that some might identify ISIS fighters as  highly devoted to the Muslim religion that he cautions Christians not to get on our moral "high horse," reminding us that there have been "terrible deeds done in the name of Christ."

This nonsensical attempt at moral equivalency between ISIS and Christianity would be sad were it not so dangerous. It is impossible to name just one person who claims to follow Christ, one Christian organization, or one Christian movement in the world -- as well as any other religion -- that beheads non-believers,  buys and sells women and children as concubines and slaves, and uses inhumane torture as a means of advancing their cause. ISIS stands alone. In his attempt to defend Islam as a religion, Mr. Obama is miscalculating ISIS as a threat.

ISIS publishes a monthly magazine--a slick, full-color periodical--called Dabiq, that has become the instrument of recruitment for ISIS worldwide. One only has to read this magazine to know ISIS' attempt at world domination is religiously motivated. ISIS is Islamic to its very core. Truth be known, the reason many Muslims are scared of ISIS is because they know ISIS considers them apostates from the true teachings of Muhammad and the real Muslim faith.

Don't believe me?

Check out Volume 7 of Dabiq, entitled From Hypocrisy to Apostasy where ISIS leaders celebrate the burning alive of the Jordanian pilot, crow over the cold-blooded murders in Paris of the French journalists who "mocked Islam," and call for the future deaths of any Islamic hypocrites who speak out against ISIS. Dabiq boldly declares of ISIS:  "We are the religion of the sword." The Arabic word Islam means "submission," and Muhammad taught his followers to use the sword to bring people into submission to God (Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Number 4294). ISIS believes anyone who professes to be a Muslim but doesn't support ISIS is actually a hypocrite turned apostate. And, according to the true teachings of Islam, all apostates to the faith are to be put to death. That's what ISIS believes. They are religiously motivated.

But it gets worse.

In the October 2014 issue of Dabiq there is an article called “The Revival of Slavery Before the Hour," a reporter details a conference convened by ISIS to determine whether Yazidis-- Kurds who borrow elements of Islam but resist the Islamic State--are apostate Muslims, and therefore marked for death, or merely pagans and therefore fair game for enslavement. The conference convened by ISIS determined:
Yazidi women and children [are to be] divided according to the Shariah amongst the fighters of the Islamic State who participated in the Sinjar operations [in northern Iraq] … Enslaving the families of the kuffar [infidels] and taking their women as concubines is a firmly established aspect of the Shariah that if one were to deny or mock, he would be denying or mocking the verses of the Koran and the narrations of the Prophetand thereby apostatizing from Islam (emphasis mine).
Mr. President, during college exams one of my roommates was given an F because he didn't reference the primary sources on the subject of which he was writing. The primary sources for what ISIS believes are found in Dabiq. It seems that neither you nor anyone in your administration has read the source material. Your bizarre attempt at moral equivalency is revealing your own ignorance of the dangers facing the world through ISIS.
"The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding." Albert Camus
There will be some who read this post and wrongly claim I am against the President. The New Testament injunction to "pray for those in authority" is one I take seriously. I regularly pray for our President and his family. However I am adding to my prayers for him that God removes from our President his ignorance of a security threat that is spreading faster than Obama's withdrawal of troops.

76 comments:

Stan said...

It is as plain as the nose on his face to the entire world whether Muslim or not what ISIS is. Pas you said one only needs to look at their own writings, videos and actions. I do not know President Obama's complete reasoning for ignoring this fact, but his denial of who and what they are is intentional.

Shari England said...
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Rex Ray said...

Wade,

Obama’s exact words were:

“We Christians should get off our high horse…”

I believe with my whole heart that he said “WE” but really meant ‘YOU’!

Victorious said...

The President's attitude toward terror is alarming! And the words of his national security adviser who said not to worry, "This is not World War II" almost made me choke on my lunch.

Without God's intervention, we are in real trouble. :(

Thy Peace said...
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Thy Peace said...
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Thy Peace said...
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Thy Peace said...

I am consolidating multiple links in to one comment :)

This will not sit well with conservatives & liberals : Noam Chomsky: America paved the way for ISIS

In it, Chomsky explains the roots of ISIS and why the United States and its allies are responsible for the group’s emergence. In particular, he argues that the 2003 invasion of Iraq provoked the sectarian divisions that have resulted in the destabilization of Iraqi society. The result was a climate where Saudi-funded radicals could thrive.

Jacobin > Noam Chomsky > The World of Our Grandchildren

Don’t Blame Islam -
Al-Qaeda and ISIS are products of US and Saudi imperialism.


Intercept > Glenn Greenwald > BURNING VICTIMS TO DEATH: STILL A COMMON PRACTICE

The above links will disturb your pre-established world-view!

Christiane said...

Thanks for the links, THY PEACE

Christiane said...

My own Church has an on-going dialogue with leaders of the Islamic faith. Recently, in the specific work of the Vatican on the importance of marriage and the family, a number of meetings with religious leaders of ALL the world's faiths had come to the many meetings and conferences at the Vatican to contribute their thoughts to this work.

In December of last year, was concluded a Catholic-Muslim Forum on working together to serve others, and the participants who realized the terrible events occurring in the world, formed a resolution together. Here is part of the report on this meeting:

"Following the presentations of the papers and the discussions, the participants agreed on various points.

First, the delegates recognized that their gathering took place in a time of severe tension and conflict in the world, underlining the vital importance of enhanced service and mutual cooperation.

In this context, the delegates unanimously condemned acts of terrorism, oppression, and violence against innocent persons, persecution, desecration of sacred places, and the destruction of cultural heritage."

I realize that Islamophobia is capturing many new converts with every ISIS broadcast of the torment and brutality of its prisoners. If anyone has watched FOX news' video on the burning of the Jordanian pilot, I can see how it must contribute to the horror they now attach to the Islamic faith. But that is what ISIS wants . . . that is their goal, and we have to remember that many of their own victims are of the Islamic faith, just not 'fundamentalist' enough for the ISIS doctrines.

It's complicated. My own Church stands with the innocent of ALL faiths, including those of the Islamic faith. I am proud of that. And I support that.

We are Americans here, we can believe what we want. But we, as a country, are not enemies of the innocent . . . that is a goal of ISIS, and THEY are the enemy we need to annihilate. If we target the innocent, we will have become the enemy we are seeking to destroy. May God forbid this happens to our people.

Rex Ray said...

Thy Peace,
Your link (Don’t Blame Islam..) is quite a history lesson.

I have a problem with it saying: “There’s nothing ineffable in Islam that produces “terrorism.”

I had to find the definition of “ineffable” which means “incapable of being expressed.”

I believe this link expresses terrorism by Islam very well:

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AgM99Ly03oxqvYhSa3SWJMybvZx4?fr=yfp-t-321-s&toggle=1&fp=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&p=does%20the%20koran%20say%20to%20kill%20infidels

The link states: “The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.”

Kristen said...

If ISIS represents Islam then Westboro Baptist Church represents Christianity.

Just sayin'.

Also, the Christian way to think about this has never been "We have not sinned." What Obama said about the Crusades and Jim Crow was true. We aren't doing ourselves any good to deny it.

We Christians have tortured and killed Jewish people and black people, and some of us have burned down the churches of others of us, and drowned others of us and participated in Inquisitions against others of us, and we may have the moral high ground here, but we must not deny the times we don't and haven't had it. 1 John 1:8-9.

Rex Ray said...

The latest strategy of the White House to stop ISIS is to give them jobs. HUH

Thy Peace
Have you ever been interested in the assassination of JFK?

This documentary by two retired FBI agents tells how a ‘hit man’ for the Mafia shot JFK while behind the picket fence.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Newsmax-TV-I-Killed-JFK-documentary-assassin/2014/11/13/id/607211/

raswhiting said...

Plausible, very plausible... and evil: "The extended finger is symbolic of the one-God concept of Muhammad and is understood by all believers to be a symbolic shahada, the Muslim affirmation of faith: There is but one God and Muhammad is his messenger."

Obama and the Muslim Gang Sign
By F. W. Burleigh
"Is President Obama a Muslim? A lot has been written about this, but if photographs speak louder than words, then a photo taken at last August’s U.S.-African Leaders’ Summit in Washington D.C. might shed considerable light. It shows Barack Hussein Obama flashing the one-finger affirmation of Islamic faith to dozens of African delegates..."
more at the link- http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/02/obama_and_the_muslim_gang_sign.html

raswhiting said...

The White House and Obama continue their craven submission to Islam's anti-free speech code, i.e. they never criticize Islam.
See the cartoon here:
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/?p=34198

raswhiting said...

Good article: "Notes from a Defeat Jihad Summit," Written by: Diana West
"The primary mechanism of control that Islam exerts over people is Islamic slander law, Islamic blasphemy law. ... Islam protects itself against criticism, even objective facts about Islam that might be construed critically. The penalty is death. ... Islam wouldn't even exist without the death penalty for "apostasy." "

And this: "Ex-Muslim Nonie Darwish conveyed her understanding, having grown up in Egypt ..., that terrorism, the threat of terrorism, is a feature of Islamic life at all levels: inside the family, in the public square, and everywhere in between." Indeed.
More at the link: http://www.dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/3015/Notes-from-a-Defeat-Jihad-Summit.aspx

Wade Burleson said...

Kristen,

You misunderstand. If Westboro Baptist people themselves believe that they are TRUE Christians, and if Westboro Baptist people themselves claim to follow Jesus Christ, and if Westboro Baptist people kill, rape, torture and imprison people because all other professing "Christians" and "Baptists" are actually apostates and worthy of death, then only the stupid, ignorant or foolish would refuse to acknowledge that "Westboro Baptist people themselves" are religiously motivated by their understanding of true Christianity.

Your attempt at moral equivalency of ISIS and Westboro Baptist people fails on several fronts, but I will point out two.

(1). There's a difference between yelling "All gays and lesbians are going to hell" and taking a knife and cutting off someone's head. The main difference is a severed head can't yell back at the person offending them. Comprehend?

(2). The issue is not what YOU believe about Westboro or ISIS - the issue is what Westboro and ISIS believe about themselves. They BOTH believe they represent true Christianity and true ISLAM. Only one of them is killing, raping, enslaving, and torturing - using the sword and violence to keep people in conformity.

You can't defeat an enemy until you understand and fight them based upon their way of thinking - not yours. Political correctness run amuck will lead to eventual defeat on a military battlefield. Next time you are concerned with whether or not somebody gets their feelings hurt because someone has denigrated their "religion," just remember that in time of war, politically correct feelings must take a backseat or the empathetic one will have her head or vagina handed to her on a platter.

Thanks for the comment.

Rex Ray said...

raswhiting

Loved your cartoon.

You quoted “terrorism…is a feature of Islamic life at all level: inside the family…”

My son was a missionary in a Muslim village about 15 miles from Beersheba.

One of their laws required a woman to marry someone of THEIR tribe.

All Muslims went to the same school. Before my son arrived, a father was told his 13 year old daughter was seen talking to a Muslim boy not of her tribe on the street after school. When she got home he locked her in a small shed and burned it. (Restored honor to his family)

Rex Ray said...

In the same village, I was riding with my son in a large van. I scolded him for not stopping for two women with their thumbs up asking for a ride.

He replied, “They thought we were the local bus. If they had gotten in and saw who we were, they would have jumped out regardless how fast I was driving.”

Rex Ray said...

My son lived in a house a Muslim had built for his 15 year old son. (houses were a smart way to save money)

We were invited to eat with the landlord. He was amazed with our money we should have at least two wives.

Each of us got that look from our wives…’don’t even think about it’.

He had divorced one wife by saying three times, ‘I divorce you’. She had to leave at once with only what she had on.

That’s why their women wear all their jewelry if they have any. Women are considered property.

Kristen said...
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Kristen said...

Wade, what I'm protesting against is this attitude many Christians are taking, that we the Church have never sinned as Islam has sinned: that the Crusades were all someone else's fault, that Jim Crow laws and lynchings were not justified by Christians as being Christian and done in the name of righteousness, that people in the first millennium put to the sword because they wouldn't convert were not killed by real Christians thinking they were doing God's will; that Jews and fellow-Christians tortured and burned at the stake in the Middle Ages were not killed by real Christians believing they were doing God's will; that Protestants never burned down Catholic churches in America; in short, that Muslims are Evil and we are Good. 1 John 1:8-9 precludes us from taking such an attitude.

My point about Westboro Baptist and ISIS was not that they were morally equivalent, but that if we are going to consider a religion to be represented by its most extreme element, then what's good for the gander is good for the goose.

I agree that we need to understand and fight an enemy based on their way of thinking. What I'm disagreeing with is doing this in self-righteousness and without love. The Muslim who lives next door to me and you condemns ISIS just as roundly as we do. I just hope we can remember this. We don't want to repeat mistakes based on fear of an entire people, like our internment camps of the Japanese in WWII.

Tim Lee said...

Great article Wade. I've shared it with several friends. Tim

Wade Burleson said...

Kristen,

Thanks for the clarification. I always appreciate a sound, level-headed approach.

And, for the record, I agree with you when it comes to our response being one of love and mercy - as individuals.

But the government of the United States was never called to be the church of Jesus Christ, nor is the church of Jesus Christ called to be the government of the United States. This is the mistake both our liberal and conservative friends make. Liberals want the government to act like the church, and conservatives want the church to act like the government.

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I love all my Muslim friends - all of them. If I'm captured by a radical Muslim and I'm moments away from having my head chopped off, I will trust in the grace of God to turn the other cheek, speak a word of love and forgiveness to the one who deems me an enemy (as Christ did on the cross), and hope that there's enough of God's grace in me to give up my life willingly and cheerfully because I know eternity is far more important than this world.

However, I want my government to "bear the sword" not in vain (Romans 13) to go after evil doers and destroy them. In a world gone wicked, Christians love their enemies and governments destroy evil.

That dichotomy is hard for both liberals and conservatives to understand - IMO - but I accept both as true.

Wade Burleson said...

Tim Lee,

Thank you, sir!

Aussie John said...

Wade,

An excellent article!

There is a huge amount of naivety and ignorance regarding the subject across our communities, which will come back to bite them, unless they wake up.

I was pleased to see your response e to Kristen. Her reply to your comment,"The Muslim who lives next door to me and you condemns ISIS just as roundly as we do", is not echoed by Muslim leaders in this country.



Kristen said...

Aussie John -- do you have anything to back that statement up with?

I have these:

Think Muslims Haven't Condemned ISIS? Think Again

American Muslims Condemn ISIS

Kristen said...

Here is a very interesting article by a Christian racial reconciliation website, on how we tend to "other" our Muslim neighbors and give ourselves the benefit of the doubt that we don't give them:

There are no white extremists

A quote: "It all ties back to one of the most pervasive findings in Social Psychology: that how we divide people into groups fundamentally alters how we perceive them. We see people in our own groups as individuals, but lump members of other groups into more general categories. With people who are like us, we take the time to examine the circumstances and mitigating factors for their behavior. However, with members of other groups we are more likely to ascribe stereotype-consistent causes to their behavior."

Rex Ray said...

Well, I spent a long time replying to “Anonymous” and I have what they said, but it is no longer here. I’ll post mine anyway.

Anonymous,

Was it only a typo that you didn’t capitalize Republican and Baptist? Maybe that’s the reason you’re sadden.

QUESTIONS:
If American had elected a Muslim President, would he NOT:

1. Have a Muslim father?

2. Have been raised by Muslims? (Muslim grandparents)

3. Think the most beautiful sound on earth is the ‘Muslim call to prayer’?

4. Stayed in a church 20 years where the preacher said, “God bless America; NO…God D-- America!”?
On the news today: “Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani said he believes President Barack Obama does not love the United States — or the people in it.” http://news.yahoo.com/rudy-giuliani-obama-doesnt-love-america-131637875.html

5. Have as ‘best man’ at his wedding his half brother, Malik Obama, who is in the ‘Muslim brotherhood’?

6. Have six Muslims in the White House: Arif Alikhan, Mohammed Elibiary, Rashad Hussain, Salam al-Marayati, Imam Mohamed Magid, and Ebbo Patel?

7. Bow to a Muslim king?

8. Apologize to foreign countries at every opportunity for what America has done?

9. Informed Christians not to get on their high horse?

10. Limit the power of the United States in retaliation to murder of Americans, Christians, and others by Islam terrorists to words of being against it?
That’s like if some brute slapped his wife, he would tell the guy he was not in favor of his actions. Roosevelt’s philosophy was “Walk softly but carry a big stick.” Obama has the same but caries a toothpick.

Kristen said...

Rex Ray, if the "Annonymous" comment before yours was deleted for being too combative, yours certainly ought to be.

How dare Obama have Muslim friends or family members and still call himself a Christian? How dare he allow any of those evil Muslims in the White House-- they ought to be banned! How dare he tell a bunch of Christian leaders at a prayer breakfast something we ALL really need to hear?

Or do you think Jesus is in favor of the high horse we Christians are riding on when we claim we have done no wrong? Jesus chose a Samaritan for an example of neighborliness, knowing that the Jewish people hated them. If He were telling the story to us today, He'd choose a Muslim.

Good. Grief.

Aussie John said...

Kristen,

I have no intention of having an "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" combat, on Wades blog.

My evidence is what I've heard as I have watched several different Australian Muslims speak of their support for IS,and "honor killings" one being a cleric, who is in now in jail.

As I write this I saw this headline in Melbourne Age; "Victorian schools struggling with the radicalisation of students AND PARENTS, Australian Principals Federation warns".

Kristen said...

"I'll show you mine if you show me yours" combat? What a way to characterize it. I simply was asking for evidence. I should have noticed from your name that you were not talking about the US. I was writing in terms of what I know from my own country. I know there are radical elements all over, but that is not my experience of the majority of Muslims in the US; and hatred of another whole group of people does not become us as Christians.

RRR said...

1. Whether our President is a professing Christian or not, his father was a strong Muslim (hence, Barak "Hussein" Obama), his mother having no particular religious leaning, and our President spending most formative years and schooling in the most Muslim nation of the world, Indonesia, all have their impact on his world-life perspective. Of course his sympathy would primarily lean in that direction.

2. In the initial Crusades the Christians were fighting to stop the on=slough of the Muslim hordes who were bent on world supremacy. Of course there were atrocities on both sides. There always is in war. Let's get off this kick at how bad the "Christians" were. Next thing I know you'll be saying we shouldn't have dropped the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima!

3. Our greatest fear should be the lack of acknowledgement that Islam is a movement for forced global domination now as it was in the period that generated the Crusades. The primary tactic is; Muslims increasingly populate a targeted area through immigration and having more Muslim children. They are nice and inconclusive until they are the dominant force and then they assert their power to force Islamic laws and culture at the expense of the host nation's. This is NOT Isis or Isil or "radical" Muslims. It is the motive of all Islam. Don't believe me? Check out France, England......

Coming soon to your neighborhood! Be listening for those 4:30 am prayers blasted over the speakers!

Rex Ray said...

RRR

You predict “Be listening for those 4:30 am prayers blasted over the speakers!”

Are you referring to what Obama said was “The most beautiful sound on earth”?

Spoken like a true Muslim!

I’ve heard those speakers and it always made me think that was why our Savior died to eliminate.

RRR said...

Rex Ray,

I couldn't go back to sleep as the 4:30 am prayers blasted on and on and on. I couldn't stifle the sound even with a pillow over my head (plus it was too hot for that) but I began to catch the rhythm and it went along with Marty Robins singing "Streets of Laredo"!

I began singing as much of the lyrics as I could remember and fell right off into a deep, peaceful sleep dreaming that I was riding on my horse in the prairie with a herd of cattle while playing my guitar and singing to the lowing cows as we moseyed along.

Rex Ray said...

RRR
We always sang “…play the pipe lowly” because we didn’t know the meaning of ‘fife”. (a small transverse flute with six to eight finger holes)

I believe the song gives more of a message than some of the church songs I’ve heard.

As I walked out in the streets of Laredo
As I walked out in Laredo one day
I spied a young cowboy wrapped all in white linen
Wrapped in white linen as cold as the clay
Oh, beat the drum slowly and play the fife lowly
Sing the dead march as you carry me along
Take me to the valley then lay the sod o'er me
I'm a young cowboy and know I've done wrong
I see by your outfit that you are a cowboy
These words he did say as I boldly walked by
Come sit down beside me and hear my sad story
Got shot in the breast and know I must die
Go fetch me some water a cool cup of water
To cool my parched lips the poor cowboy said
Before I returned his spirit had left him
Had gone to his maker the cowboy was dead
Oh, beat the drum slowly and play the fife lowly
Sing the dead march as you carry me along
Take me to the valley then lay the sod o'er me
I'm a young cowboy and know I've done wrong

RRR said...

Rex Ray, you're always a breath of fresh air! Let us know any time you're in the Atlanta area and you can come stay with Cooky and I. We'll go to "Cherokee Ranch" for breakfast and get some eggs and grits.

Kristen said...

I'm outa here.

Gordon said...

Wade,
I don't see anyone condemning all Muslims because of the atrocious deeds of a small but significant minority that interpret the Koran literally.
This latter group considers they are fully justified, faithful and virtuous in putting to death the 'Kaffirs' and apostates. The mistaken Saul of Tarsus and the Jesuits during the Inquisition acted in a similar sincere manner.They think they are doing God a favor.
The only way to stop these dangerously misguided and well organised zealots immediately is by the use of greater military forces on the part of civil government.
And we should pray that grace will given to open their eyes to the Savior and to the God whom they really want to love and serve but are in darkness now.

(I'd like Kristen to return because she has half made a point).

Thy Peace said...

"The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding." Albert Camus

It is very funny that the above would apply EQUALLY to Conservatives and Liberals.

My thinking here is different. What I find is Obama is MORE Republican than a Democrat. He is to the RIGHT of Richard Nixon in his Conservatism. Hard to believe but very true. Obama had done more to wage war on terrorism than Bush Jr AND Richard Nixon. All in a BAD way.

Obama is more pro-war, more pro-stripping of first amendment, more for global surveillance than the Republicans. But not by much. Here the Republicans and Democrats are almost united in War on Terror and intrusive surveillance.

The differences if any are very minor and Conservatives/Republicans using talk shows and Fox berate on these minor issues.

As in Benghazi, Obama not labeling as Islamic Terrorism, Obama bowing down to friendly Muslim dictators and so on.

I know it is hard for most of you to see this but that is what the reality is.

I have watched for the past 40 years since Carter that US politics are mired in DELUSIONS. I have as a result become radicalized that I find Noam Chomsky to speak more clearly for me and make sense of this world.

Noam Chomsky: The Kind of Anarchism I Believe in, and What's Wrong with Libertarians -
Anarchism "assumes that the burden of proof for anyone in a position of power and authority lies on them," explains Chomsky.


Noam Chomsky:Well, anarchism is, in my view, basically a kind of tendency in human thought which shows up in different forms in different circumstances, and has some leading characteristics. Primarily it is a tendency that is suspicious and skeptical of domination, authority, and hierarchy. It seeks structures of hierarchy and domination in human life over the whole range, extending from, say, patriarchal families to, say, imperial systems, and it asks whether those systems are justified. It assumes that the burden of proof for anyone in a position of power and authority lies on them. Their authority is not self-justifying. They have to give a reason for it, a justification. And if they can’t justify that authority and power and control, which is the usual case, then the authority ought to be dismantled and replaced by something more free and just. And, as I understand it, anarchy is just that tendency. It takes different forms at different times.

As a side link here are good posts on Albert Camus: Brain Pickings > Posts tagged Albert Camus

Thank you Kristen. Love your words.

Rex Ray said...

RRR,
Thanks for the invite. Maybe we’re on the same page because my initials are also RRR.

I’d write more but the last comment by Thy Peace blew my mind.

Christiane said...

Hi KRISTIN,

who stands to win by segments of our society attempting to discredit the Islamic faith?

would it just be a 'political' victory?

or is there some other explanation for the intensity of the attack on the faith of Muslim people worldwide?

I think 'ISIS' is a fundamentalist group which much like Christian and Jewish fundamentalists, have developed a 'fringe' group that advocates for violent confrontations. I do not think that ISIS at all represents the Islamic faith, no.

My question is there must be a reason certain media groups, and politicians, and Church-related people have increased their attacks on the Islamic faith by pointing to ISIS as a part of it. Someone or some group is orchestrating this, but WHY? Who wins by doing this?

RRR said...

"The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance"

Albert Camus apparently was pretty "ignorant" (Webster: "Ignorant- resulting from or showing a lack of knowledge") . Evil does not come from ignorance.

The ultimate authority on such matters, The Creator, explains the TRUE root of evil in this way: "Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, powers, world forces of this darkness SPIRITUAL FORCES OF EVIL IN THE HEAVENS." (Eph 6) i.e, the very real Devil and his hordes of demonic followers.

The only explanation for man's amazing ability to inflict such monstrous acts as we see taking place in the world and the evil inflicted by corrupt officials in government is the manifestation of demonic power which is the exact opposite of Godliness.

"Ignorance" is a fruit of evil when one "chooses" to be ignorant by denying reality. Actually, in the case where one chooses to be ignorant "Foolish" is a much better description.

Webster's definition of "anarchy", to which I believe most clear-headed people relate more than the romanticized version given by Chomsky, is: "a situation of confusion and wild behavior in which the people in a country, group, organization, etc., are not controlled by rules or laws". In other words, people behave like animals.

Seems to me that the true definition of "anarchy" is quite similar to God's definition of the product of Satan's influence. To promote anarchy as a means to remedy self-serving, corrupt, greedy, evil officials in government is ludicrous.

As God also says, governments are the only thing that stands between a peace loving citizen seeking a better life and maniacs running in the streets asserting their own unrestricted desire for self gratification at the expense of weaker, vulnerable victims.

Anarchy may be attractive to the few who momentarily have bullying power over weaker victims but when the table is turned and the bully is victimized he immediately shrieks like a cowardly snared rabbit, "HELP ME!"

Chomsky's quote regarding the governmental authorities being obligated with "the burden of proof" is of course to be expected by the people; i.e. "accountability". To remedy abuse of authority by extinguishing "positions" of authority is not wise (baby thrown out with bathwater). The remedy is to "replace" non-responsive officials with better officials. Fortunately, for now at least, our country continues to offer that avenue.

RRR said...

Christiane,

You asked;
"My question is there must be a reason certain media groups, and politicians, and Church-related people have increased their attacks on the Islamic faith by pointing to ISIS as a part of it. Someone or some group is orchestrating this, but WHY? Who wins by doing this?"

As one of those addressed in the realm of your question, would you like to hear my response or was it more of a rhetorical question?

Christiane said...

Hi RRR,

one of the good things about Wade's blog is that you can express your thoughts . . . I asked Kristin because of her prior comments, but I am open to listening to all responses respectfully . . . please share yours if you like, of course

RRR said...

Christiane,

The trend is indeed leaning more toward opposition to Islam rather than restricted opposition to Muslim extremists. I personally don't believe this growing opposition originated from a conspiracy on the part of parties opposed to Islam.

This growing opposition does fall into the plans of those Islamic terrorists who seek to implement an all-out war between Islamists and non-Islamists. It results in the terrorists more effectively enlisting warriors and support from mainstream Muslims.

I believe that the growing opposition to Islam in general, in which I am a part of, are those who are aware that Islam is a threat not restricted to the extremists. I believe that the basic premises, history and ideology of the founder of Islam, Muhammad, are intended on global implementation of Islam. A number much, much greater than those of the militant extremists are participating in that endeavor today.

It is obvious that the more effective strategy of the Islamists is to immigrate into new pioneer areas and increase their numbers through additional immigration and increased childbirth. During the early stages of their occupation into an area, when they are still a minority, they are quite inclusive and polite but as they grow in numbers to reach a majority they assert their Islamic law by force and dispense with the laws of their host country.

This assessment is supported by what is happening in Europe, Asia, Africa and now in the United States. It is not so much the extremists that frighten me, and I believe others are together with me about this, but rather the movement by Islamists to globalize Islam by increased occupation and with no desire for assimilation into the targeted countries but rather domination and ultimately total control.

I believe this is a view gathering wide support and generating increasing fear. Fear is not a bad thing when it is generated by reality and controlled within Christlike awareness and response.

One does not have to hate a dangerous threat, but should be wise in discerning its nature.

Thanks for hearing my view.

Christiane said...

Hi RRR,

Thank YOU for sharing that. It seems a wise response and I appreciate your insight very much.

I have a feeling that the more we see the religion 'Islam' as the culprit,
the more we feed into the hands of ISIS in giving to them the identity of the religion they have tried to usurp.

I fear greatly for our Islamic American people, and for their children, in the present environment. It is my hope that the Church draws a firm line between terrorism and Islam, the religion of an Abraham people who descend from Father Abraham through Ishmael,
and who also worship the One God in union with Judaism and Christianity.

We don't want to encourage the strength of ISIS in our own descriptions of 'who they are'. They remain brutal thugs and murderers and above all, bullies with no respect for the laws God has written on the hearts of all mankind. We as a Christian people must protect and defend innocent people of all faiths, and not add to the sufferings of any of these innocents, no.

Rex Ray said...

Christiane

You told RRR “…Islam, the religion of an Abraham people who descend from Father Abraham through Ishmael, and who also worship the One God in union with Judaism and Christianity.”

How can anyone worship God and reject His Son? That’s like trying to honor your father and mother by killing their other children. Judaism and Islam do not believe in Jesus.

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) Christiane, do you believe this?

You asked Kristin: “who stands to win by segments of our society attempting to discredit the Islamic faith?”

I believe this link expresses terrorism by Islam very well:
https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AgM99Ly03oxqvYhSa3SWJMybvZx4?fr=yfp-t-321-s&toggle=1&fp=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&p=does%20the%20koran%20say%20to%20kill%20infidels

The link states: “The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.”

I believe the winners would be more people in heaven and less in hell if the devil’s religion of Islam was wiped off the face of the earth.

Kristen said...

I really don't want to continue in this discussion, but here are some alternative viewpoints to the above, for anyone who wants to read them:

Why the extremist forms of a religion do not and cannont actually truly represent that religion

How the propaganda of the extremists distorts how we think of their religions

Why ISIS does not reflect Islam as most Muslims understand it, and why mainstream Muslims still don't say it's "not Islam" -- because they don't want to be like ISIS. Also explains the most likely causes of the rise in this kind of extremism in Arab nations.

RRR said...

I think we should continue to dialogue on this issue as long as we progress in our understanding of each other's positions in a way that provides us with food for thought.

I appreciate Christiane's input. She does serve as a reminder of our greater allegiance to Christ and our priority of functioning in this world as His Spirit leads us. We certainly have to guard our hearts from becoming anything other than filled with the love and grace of Christ.

I loved Franklin Graham's comments on TV recently as he was relating to the recent "burning alive" of people. To paraphrase, he said something like, "God loves the people that committed these atrocities but does not accept the murder of others. Unless they repent of their sin and turn to God through faith in Jesus Christ they will face the same judgment as all others who reject Christ."

Franklin Graham said it much better than that, but that was basically his point. He was pleading through the grace of God for those extremists murderers to repent before it is too late and put their faith in Christ. He also pointed out to them that they would not earn their way into heaven by killing people to please God.

Islam is a theocratic ideology. I have close friends, both Muslims and former Muslim-Christians, from Iran. They all say that Iran is ran by a minority of the population that rules with vicious control and domination. The government represents perhaps 10% of the population, but it has the military and control, thus the power.

I believe that is the case in most instances of Muslim-ruled countries. Those Muslims orchestrating the strategy for world domination perhaps do not represent the majority of the Muslim population of the world. But they are in control and they are effectively manipulating the Muslim-world media and government influences to expand Muslim domination over the planet. As I mentioned previously, the proof is the reality of what is happening throughout continents.

With this being the case, how must we respond as Christ followers? I believe this is the question. The question is NOT whether Islam is aggressively pursuing world domination at the expense of freedom and liberty of all other religions and ideologies. That is a "given".

The question is, "How do we respond to this looming threat to our way of life and freedoms in a manner that is in harmony with our Father's Spirit living in us?"

Thy Peace said...

THE ATLANTIC IGNORES MUSLIM INTELLECTUALS, DEFINES “TRUE ISLAM” AS ISIS

Rex Ray said...

RRR

Good reply. I was snowed under with all those words. All I could think of was…blab…blab and ask if Kristen was brave enough to shop at the ‘Mall of America’ after terrorists said it was a target, and our government said if you go there, be alert.

RRR said...

Rex Ray,

Who would have ever dreamed back in the '50s and '60s that "Communism" would fall and would be replaced by a hostile ideology labeled as "Islam"? When Communist Europe fell I thought for awhile that the age of global powers at each other's throats had ceased. Not to be.

Also, I recall preachers in the '50s and '60s preaching that the downfall of America would be the unraveling of the "family" as had Rome in ancient times. Man, did they ever hit the nail on the head!

Still, it's a great age to be alive and have the opportunity to serve the Lord during such a desperate time, isn't it!? I'm sincerely glad that I was born in such an exciting era with such opportunities to be used by The Lord. I'm glad you were too.

Rex Ray said...

RRR

I’m not sure all on this post believe we are “used by the Lord”. :)

You see Thy Peace’s last comment points out that most Muslims don’t believe as ISIS.

The same could be said about most people not believing as Hitler, but how many died because those people did nothing to stop him?

Obama’s philosophy seems to be ‘we’ll be nice and give them good jobs so they won't hurt us’; makes me want to puke.

Christiane said...

If Obama is such a pacifist, why are the warplanes practicing day and night to join their carriers in the Middle East?

I think about two presidents. One spoke about 'shock and awe' and then said he didn't really care where Bin Laden was;
and the other ordered the extermination of Bin Laden successfully.

Speaking softly sometimes is a cover for a VERY big stick. And in the case of our current president, I really don't see him running an employment agency for ISIS anytime soon. :)
ISIS will reap the whirlwind, but this time, the whirlwind will come at them from ALL the different countries they have provoked, and the fight will not be something they can manipulate or control on their own terms, no.

Thanks to Kristen, and RRR, and Rex Ray and everyone for joining in. My respects to everyone who speaks their mind, and especially to WADE who allows us to do so. I am grateful for this blog's diversity.

Christiane said...

And also thanks to THY PEACE, who is a voice of reason, and of compassion, in the very best Christian tradition.

Kristen said...

Rex Ray seems to think that not thinking all Muslims are terrorists is the same as thinking no Muslims are terrorists. I really can't otherwise account for his question about my "bravery." I am not actually stupid.

And he has just illustrated exactly why I didn't want to continue the conversation.

Rex Ray said...

Christiane

I’m glad we’re still friendly.

Today’s news:

Beirut (AFP) - Jihadists from the Islamic State group have kidnapped at least 90 Assyrian Christians in northeast Syria, after overrunning two villages.
http://pakistanheadlines.com/2015/02/24/islamic-state-militants-kidnap-90-christians-in-syria-monitor/

Will the Obama ‘news’ omit “Christians” again?

The U.S. Army is ordering that references to Bible verses etched into rifle scopes sold to the military be removed.

“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, ‘I am the light of the world; he that followeth Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life (John 8:12 )
Sarah Palin, “Who's giving the order? Who has the guts to take responsibility for this nonsense?”

http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/item/15214-army-orders-removal-of-bible-references-from-military-scopes

In 2008 American troops confiscated, threw away, and burned God’s Word at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan. The Bibles were written in the Pashto and Dari languages, and the Defense Department was concerned the books might somehow be used to convert Afghans.

The incident became public in 2009. Lt. Col. Mark Wright told CNN such religious outreach could endanger American troops and civilians because Afghanistan is a “devoutly Muslim country.”

“The decision was made that it was a ‘force protection’ measure to throw them away because, if they did get out, it could be perceived by Afghans that the U.S. government or the U.S. military was trying to convert Muslims,” Wright told CNN.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/the-day-the-military-burned-the-bible.html

I wonder if the Army’s Commander in Chief had anything to do with Col. Wright’s decision?

Christiane said...

Hi REX RAY,

I am happy to say that you can believe and speak your mind freely and it's okay by me,
even though I might be 180 degrees away from where you see things.

People see things from different points of view . . . and when they share what they see, everyone wins in the process, I think.

I will always love your wonderful stories, which even thinking about them brings a smile to my face,
so I can honestly say I value you as someone of faith who contributes a lot of joy in this world with your gift of story-telling. I'd be proud to have you call me friend. As for the politics and such, it will come and go and ebb and flow, but a good story stays with you long after you've heard or read it.

Keep well, my friend.

RRR said...

It's REALLY difficult to filter out and identify "reality/truth" from all of the noise made by media hype and political propaganda AND all the opinions influenced by the power of the media, isn't it?

It's difficult to assess how effective a President has been until sometime after he leaves office and some of the dust settles.

It's impossible to know what influences direct the decisions of those in executive office. Who is pushing the buttons and controlling the circumstances?

I have tried to seriously limit the attention I give to media hype from all persuasions recognizing that very little said is relative to issues that are truly important. (Think of some of the "media's" priorities lately; ebola, measles, "Shades of Grey", American Sniper trial, Kardashian, etc.)

The distortion inflected into media reports for the purpose of sensationalizing their news programs and sending their viewers/listeners/readers into a frenzy diminishes any sincere effort to report facts and reality.

I'm going to continue being VERY skeptical of ALL media hype, ESPECIALLY when it speaks to political parties, personalities and social issues whether pro or con.

As for President Obama, the jury will remain out as to what good and bad was actually done during his time in office until quite some time after he leaves that House. His being labeled a "Democrat" no doubt colors the assessment of both sides, positive for one side and negative for the other. I can't tell just how bad or good he is at this point so I will try to pray for him and his family, especially their safety, and pray asking God to give him the wisdom that comes from God.

Rex Ray said...

Christiane

Thanks…even if we are 180 degrees.

Yes, we live in a country where we’re free…that is…free to follow rules.

LTC Terry Lakin went to prison trying to make Obama prove his eligibility to be President by providing documentation he was a natural-born citizen.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/08/army-officer-imprisoned-for-challenging-obama/

At the time Obama’s records were sealed. Why didn’t he provide the records and this man’s life would not have been ruined?

I believe it was today Obama vetoed the Keystone XL Pipeline bill. He’s concerned about ‘global warming’. HUH

I live near Bonham, TX and this week’s been colder than Fairbanks, Alaska.

Aussie John said...

Wade,

I've been waiting for someone to point out that the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob was a shadowy,fearful figure, whom He is today to the Muslims I know.

The New Covenant pointed to the fact that God revealed Himself in the form of the humble, self effacing Man Jesus Christ (Phil.2:8), who said," Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life"(John 5:24).

That is the only knowledgable foundation on which to discuss the issue.

Rex Ray said...

Aussie John

What you wrote is very true except the issue is Wade’s first sentence: “Barak Obama has put our nation and the world at risk.”

Of course I’m just as far off trying to prove Obama’s sealed documents did not reveal he was qualified to be President.
Why did he wait until April 26, 2011 to release his ‘Certificate of Live Birth’ which http://www.cbsnews.com/news/arpaio-obama-birth-record-definitely-forged/
Even his grandmother said he was born in Kenya:
https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AgM99Ly03oxqvYhSa3SWJMybvZx4?fr=yfp-t-321-s&toggle=1&fp=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&p=obama%27s%20grandmother%20says%20he%20was%20born%20in%20kenya

RRR said...

I don't know if President Obama has a legit birth certificate or not but I wonder if it was proved AFTER his terms in office that he was not qualified due to not being a natural-born US citizen if it would be kind of like Steve McGwire or Barry Bonds career baseball records being handled after they were found to be using steroids? However that was.

Rex Ray said...

RRR
I believe it would not make a bit of difference if there was 100% proof that Obama was NOT a natural-born US citizen.

Breaking our Constitution where he was born has not affected America, but raised as a Muslim has.

It’s like Wade said on his latest blog: “…The American people have shifted.”

They don’t care how much or how many times he breaks our Constituting in bypassing Congress such as having secret meetings with Iran that may help them develop nuclear weapons.

ISIS doesn’t need spies to inform where they should concentrate when they have Obama giving information where 100 U.S. troops will go. DUH

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/obama-sends-100-us-troops-to-uganda-to-combat-lords-resistance-army/

Rex Ray said...

“LONDON (Reuters) - Investigators believe that the "Jihadi John" masked fighter who fronted Islamic State beheading videos is a British man named Mohammed Emwazi, two U.S. government sources said on Thursday. He was born in Kuwait and comes from a prosperous family in London, where he grew up and graduated with a computer programming degree, according to the Washington Post.”
http://news.yahoo.com/bbc-names-jihadi-john-suspect-islamic-state-beheading-110602366.html

Well, well, well…I guess if he had a good job, he would have stayed on the straight and narrow.

What will it take to wake America up to kick the ‘crazies’ out of Washington that’s dong their best to get us killed…starting with it’s top leader/dictator?

Did you hear about the three Islam believers that planed to kill Obama? They’re idiots more ways than one.

RRR said...

It's interesting too that in the case of extremist Muslims one never hears them cite the motive or the incentive for their terrorist acts as being because of their dissatisfaction with their standard of living or lack of job/education opportunity. Those enlisting in the Muslim terrorist endeavor are not doing so in the guise of creating a more prosperous world for themselves with bigger houses, finer cars and more electronic toys. Actually, they are not that "shallow".

The fact that anyone would suggest that terrorists' dissatisfaction with circumstances could be remedied by their having more job opportunities, education, prosperity, etc., shows the ignorance of western mentality that believes these are answers to everyone's dilemma. These western politicians and "western politically correct" campaigners have yet to recognize, no, acknowledge openly, that the incentive for the Muslim terrorists is world domination and their ideology-lifestyle being forcibly applied throughout the planet.

We can try to take additional land from Israel to satisfy the appetites of the Muslim extremists so they can use it to make a little Palestinian state. Shoot, if we could even take it from the Jews and give them all of Israel their hunger for domination will not in the least bit diminish.

There will NEVER be peace in the middle east or on this planet until our King returns to implement it. WE know this and others who continue to function on the basis that such a peace scenario is possible are simply involved in acts of futility and ridiculousness. They might as well try filling a bucket with water when it doesn't have a bottom in it.

Christiane said...

perhaps if the Palestinian people had not been removed from their homes and displaced when Israel was founded by the UN vote after WWII,

then maybe the seeds of discontent and anger and frustration in those people would not have been planted.

was there unfairness done to them?

I think there was.

has it ever been properly and justly addressed?

no, it has not

we need to think about this now

RRR said...

Christiane,

You serve as a good voice for the "less-conservative" side. I'm glad. It's kind of like Juan Williams on Fox News. I'm sorry to say that he's about the only person on their programs that is likely to express views that counter the ultra-conservative slant that everyone else takes. Fox News really needs more like him on their shows to add more credibility and true balance to their programs. I was disappointed when Allan Colmes left who did a good job of countering Hannity on their show together some years ago.

Anyway, thanks for bringing up alternative viewpoints on these issues. I typically disagree with you, as with positions usually taken by Juan Williams and Alan Colmes, but you give me reason to pause to consider possibilities which otherwise might not have been on my radar screen. I honestly do not want to be close-minded when making decisions about my position on various issues.

I again find myself in disagreement with your take on things. If we began trying to justify who is the most qualified by history to be caretakers of Israel and who had been forcibly usurped from that land unjustly we would have to go well back in history before WWII. You surprise me by even proposing that the Palestinians are the rightful heirs to that land.

Maybe you heard Netanyahu's last speech before the joint Congress when he addressed this very thing. It was quite powerful mainly because it rang true to history in establishing what people are the rightful heirs to that land.

By whose edict do the Palestinians even make claim to the land of Israel? Muhammad's? Relative to ancient history, Muhammad must be considered "recent past". Plus, he had no legitimate claim even when he initially made it.

But thank you again for bringing up a perspective that would likely be taken by those of an anti-Semitic persuasion. PLEASE BE AWARE that I AM NOT suggesting in that statement that YOU are bigoted toward Jews but simply that you bring up a viewpoint likely taken by those who are. With whom we are obligated to consider as well.

Christiane said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Christiane said...

Hi RRR,

I love Israel. I love the idea of Israel as the Jewish homeland, ancient and modern. But I also can see the pain of the Palestinians and I cannot say that they were justly treated when Israel was formed.

We sometimes don't want to see the seeds of discontent 'our side' planted come to fruition in ways unforeseen;
but if the discontent arises and evil men take advantage of it, can we not at least be honest about 'our' collective part in creating the environment that enabled evil to take root?

AS people who love Israel, it may be time to address the injustice done to the Palestinian people when Israel was formed;
and I don't see this as a paradox or as impossible . . . difficult, unpopular, yes,

as far as 'liberal' or 'less conservative',
I think my opinion here may be far more conservative than is recognized because it seeks a justice for people who were truly wronged when the world tried to make things better for the Jewish victims of the Nazis . . . do we right one wrong by creating another?

Is that really possible without creating hatred and bitterness that will be reaped in a whirlwind in future?

I think I am 'conservative' here in the best sense of the word:
when I ask for right to be done to a people who have been sadly wronged, and who now are vulnerable to a greater evil still. We need to show some collective responsible resolve for the Palestinian situation to be righted, and we need to pray that it is not too late for justice for the Palestinian people.

Rex Ray said...

Christiane

I’ve always admired your views and comments. I don’t know if you’ve thought about this but would you less likely to have voted for Obama if he was white?

Do you remember when Wade predicted Hillary would be President and I made a comment something like, “If that happened…beam me up Scotty!”

Wade’s funny ‘movie of Hitler’ on March 18, 2012 used to end with Hitler moaning the blues about Obama and saying, “I should have gone with Hillary.”

Today’s news told of Saudi Arabia and Oman were among foreign countries giving money to the Clinton Foundation.
http://www.jammiewf.com/2015/foreign-governments-gave-millions-to-foundation-while-clinton-was-at-state-dept/

Does Obama believe what John Kerry said?
“Our citizens, our world today is actually, despite ISIL, despite the visible killings that you see and how horrific they are, we are actually living in a period of less daily threat to Americans and to people in the world than normally, less deaths, less violent deaths today than through the last century.”
http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2015/02/john-kerry-declares-world-safer-than-ever-2975920.html

On the other side was the Director of the U.S. Intelligence, James Clapper, who said:

“2014 was the most lethal year for global terrorism.”

They had signs that read:
Militant groups in 12 countries have pledge loyalty to ISIS, and ISIS is beginning to assemble a international footprint including Americans.

Who knows, maybe the battle of Armageddon will start sooner than we think.

On the subject of who should own the land of Israel, if one goes back far enough they might be arguing with God.

RRR
I like the way you tell things.

Rex Ray said...

One thing for sure…Obama has kept his promise on ‘change’.

If he loses the Supreme Court’s decision next Wednesday of “King vs. Birdwell”, they have no plan “B” for “Obama Health Care”.

http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/11/court-to-rule-on-health-care-subsidies/

RRR said...

Christiane,

See, Christiane! One good thing that you do is to motivate me to go back and do some research. Thanks for sharing your perspective and considering mine.

One can go back to pre-Crusades 600 A.D. to see that this land has not been "owned", as in "inherited from previous generations" other than the Jews and certainly not between the Crusades until 1948.

The land of "ISRAEL" (Hmm...wonder where that name came from?) has been ransacked, occupied and re-occupied, divided, and re-divided by non-Jewish invaders since the Crusades. To say that the Palestinians have rights to claim ownership to it as their land or nation just doesn't hold water.

The Palestinians might be able to go back to the 5th century to say that they, among numerous others, had at one time or another conquered and occupied the land for a spell until it was taken by others and then others.

Go back THOUSANDS of years to see who had control of the land and continued to maintain themselves as a people and a nation identified with this small land area, although often in states of forced diaspora. In my estimation, the claim as rightful owner-stewards of the land being the Jews cannot really be legitimately debated. They never gave up claim to it and never ceased fighting for it.

To suggest that it was somehow thrown to the Jews as payment for the injustices done to them during WW II would suggest that they did not have to fight the British, UN, Palestinians, and surrounding Arab nations to regain it in 1948 and then immediately have to wage war with the surrounding Arab nations to maintain it.

I can love the Palestinians in Christ and have sympathy for their displacement and suffering but I am not sympathetic with their argument for having claim to Israel and their hatred for the Jewish people. The answer to their dilemma is not to hi-jack territory from the sovereign nation of Israel for the Palestinians to use only until they can put additional pressure on the international community to give them more. They will never be satisfied. Their lust is not for the "land" but for genocide of the Jewish nation; just as surely as Hitler.

Personally, I find it upsetting that Israel is constantly pressured by "outsiders" to sacrifice their land areas to appease the Palestinians and the western do-good-ers. Why doesn't Saudi Arabia offer them some of their desert oil fields for a homeland?

As a matter of fact, if the US is so sympathetic to their cause to have their own homeland why not give them California!

Rex Ray said...

Valerie June Bowman Jarrett (born November 14, 1956) is a Senior Advisor to the President of the United States and Assistant to the President for Public Engagement and Intergovernmental Affairs in the Obama administration.

She is a Chicago lawyer, businesswoman, and civic leader. Prior to that she served as a co-chairman of the Obama–Biden Transition Project

Assumed office January 20, 2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Jarrett



Rush Limbaugh said: “It was Valerie Jarrett who put off three separate times an attack to either capture or kill bin Laden. It was Panetta and Hillary and some others, apparently, who just finally overruled her and started the operation. They pulled Obama off the golf course for the photo op-ed, after the event had already begun.”

(" Love said most people were in the Situation Room but Obama came to the private dining room to play cards with Love, White House photographer Pete Souza, and staffer Marvin Nicholson. "[President Obama] was like, 'I'm not, I'm not going to be down there, I can't watch this entire thing'," Love said. "We must have played 15 games of Spades."
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/14/reggie-love-obama-played-cards-on-day-bin-laden-was-killed/ )

Limbaugh goes on to say he doubted that it was Jarrett who gave the orders of “Stand Down” at Benghazi.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/08/06/did_valerie_jarrett_issue_the_order_to_stand_down_in_benghazi

Rex Ray said...

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-join-bloody-sunday-anniversary-selma-074249258.html

I wish Obama would get as excited about the good America has done as he does the wrong.