"I went to Jerusalem to become acquainted (Gk. istoria) with Cephas" - Paul's words from Galatians 1:18.

I Finally Figured Out Why I Don't Like Thanksgiving Pumpkin Pie

For decades I have been lovingly chided by my wife for not enjoying a good ole homemade pumpkin pie. The first time I ever met my wife's grandparents, salt of the earth Kansas farmers, they fed me a heaping piece of pumpkin pie. Wishing not to sully what I hoped to be a stellar affirmation of me by those grandparents, I surreptitiously stuck the pie in my pocket and buried it later in the backyard. I have never been fully able to explain to others my disdain for pumpkin pie, but one of my church members sent me a photograph this week (see below) that instantly opened my eyes, and helped me make sense of, my aversion to it.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

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The origins of pumpkin pie.

41 comments:

Kevin M. Crowder said...

"I have never been fully able to explain to others my disdain for pumpkin pie"

A lot of disdain this month...


Anyway, so are you going to sign the Manhattan Declaration or not?

Feeling ignored,

Kevin

Kevin M. Crowder said...

Allow me to opine with a fresh perspective on the comp/egal debate. The logical end of egalitarianism is that marriage between a man and a woman is no different than a same-sex marriage. Therefore, Wade, and others are for...

How do I come to that conclusion? If man and woman are equal in all aspects of the marital relationship (i.e. no role difference), and if God ordained this system, and of the full image of God can be attained by two equals becoming one, and if maleness and femaleness each bring nothing unique to the marital union, then a 2 men or two women could achieve the same effect of manifesting the imago dei.


Sign the Manhattan Declaration today!

Wade Burleson said...

Kevin

Sorry. I don't mean to ignore anyone. My posts are sometimes written days in advance and wait in a cue for automatic posting. That's why they all post at the same time (12:00 am). Ministry at Emmanuel comes first- before reading and answering comments on my blog. During busy times, like this week, I don't even have a chance to read the comments. But I leave the comment section open for others to dialogue and disagree with what I have written.

I don't know if I will sign anything. I agree with the principles in the Manhatten document, but prefer to only pledge my allegience to the Bible and no other document.

Wade

Christiane said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kevin M. Crowder said...

"I agree with the principles in the Manhatten document, but prefer to only pledge my allegience to the Bible and no other document." -WB

"I personally affirm the Baptist Faith and Message 2000 --- every jot and tittle. I have signed the BFM 2000 for my service on the IMB. " -WB

"Finally, we believe the conversations that have begun in these days express our desire to preserve the Southern Baptist Convention should God, in his providence, so choose to sustain our witness and strengthen our commitment to these ends. We pledge, therefore, to one another that we will continue this dialogue by inviting others in our respective spheres of influence to participate with us by seeking to renew our commitment to denominational accountability, institutional openness, moral and ethical integrity, and properly prioritized Kingdom efforts.

Signees:

[Each person is signing/has signed for himself/herself, and not their church or even Sr Pastor.]

Steven P. Hardy, NC
Ginny Brant, SC
Pamela Walker Blume, NC
Ken McLemore, VA
Ben Carr, OK
Martin S. Duren, GA
Arthur T. Rogers, KY
Benjamin S. Cole, TX
Thomas Ascol, FL
Jason Helmbacher, OK
Alden Stephens, FL
Wiley Drake, CA
Jason Sampler, LA
C.B. Scott, AL
Roy Hargrave, FL
Wade Burleson, OK
Look there who signed the Memphis Declaration

Ok, ok , you get a pass on that one...is that WileyE "Coyote" Drake I see above you??? lol






So what you are telling me is that in the last 1-2 years you have done a 180 in your thinking regarding the signing of documents other than the Bible???

Or is it that the Manhattan Declaration is distinctly complementarian. Or is it the fact that you are unwilling to go to jail for your beliefs?

I signed it. I am willing. If I were a member of "The Board of Ordinal Standards and Review," I would make the siging of this document a requirement for ALL the ordained of the SBC.

Yes, it is just that important!


Alas, however, Wade, you and I can continue in cooperative christian fellowship on at least the grounds that I too hate (already written the book) pumpkin pie!


:)

Christiane said...

I am hoping that people will share their Thanksgiving with others: maybe an elderly neighbor, or friends of your kids whose families are broken, or maybe drive out and go visit a relative in a nursing home and take something over that you cooked yourself.
Don't worry. When you share, there will be enough food for all 'cause you know how it is:
once you say that blessing in the Name of the Lord, there always seems to be enough food for a multitude. :)

Caritas Christi,
L's

Wade Burleson said...

I am not sure where you pulled the above quote from, but it is common knowledge when I "signed" the BFM 2000 I had a list of written caveats. I agree with the major doctinal positions of the BFN but have always disagreed with several tertiary things in it.

But, yes, I have done a 180 on "signing" any man made document. No group, individual, or institutioal statement will be the Holy Spirit to my conscience and take the place of the Word of God.

Wade

Kevin M. Crowder said...

"I am not sure where you pulled the above quote from, but it is common knowledge when I "signed" the BFM 2000 I had a list of written caveats."

Here is where I pulled the quote.

Sorry Pastor Wade, I am just holding you "accountable."

:)

Kevin M. Crowder said...

"The ability to cooperate with each other is dependent upon our willingness to accept each other in spite of our differences." -WB

"It is an axiom that when one's argumentation is weak, attack the opponent. There is no need for any of us who see what is needed in the SBC to attack anyone. I'll do my part, and encourage you as well, to insure we stay above the fray, refrain from personal attacks, and focus simply on the issues before us. -WB

"I'm tired of some conservative leaders being led to the slaughter like lambs. The sheep of God in the conservative fold called the Southern Baptist Convention deserve our defense.

I'll do my best.

Wade "

You mean like Drs. Mohler, Patterson, Moore, Akin, et al???


Final Quote of the day:

"We will fully and ungrudgingly render to Caesar what is Caesar’s. But under no circumstances will we render to Caesar what is God’s."
-Manhattan Declaration 2009

Wade Burleson said...

I am not sure why a picture of a pumpkin has evoked such a flood of comments from you Kevin, but regardless, "Happy Thanksgiving!" To you and all your loved ones

Byroniac said...

That is funny!

I like Pumpkin pie, but honestly, it is one of my least favorite kinds of pie. Though if the choice is either that or no pie at all, give me two slices. ;)

mocksnhongkong said...

You really don't think you got away with that do you?
Have a great Thanksgiving; we will surely miss being with each of you!

Rex Ray said...

Wade,
You put the pie in your pocket and buried it in the backyard? Now that WAS sneaky alright.

I can brag and say I wasn’t sneaky – I took a pie and threw it over a fence into a pasture, but I regretted the day!

You see, I had encouraged my aging parents to stop eating sugar, and they made comments how much better they felt.

We were visiting them and this pie ‘magically’ appeared on the table covered with white sugar. I looked at it several hours but could stand it no longer.

I told my parents and they understood as no one knew who left the pie.

The next day, I heard my Aunt Exie’s loud voice over the phone talking to Mama: “How did you like the pie?”

“Mama, don’t tell – don’t tell!”

I detected some revenge in the voice: “Rex threw it over the fence!”

I’ve learned in life it’s better to face the music and get it over than put it off, so I drove a mile to my aunt’s house. We chic-chatted a while until she said, “Rex, you really didn’t throw the pie over the fence did you? You ate it!”

I don’t know if I’ve ever been tempted to lie so much in my life. (You gotta know Aunt Exie.)

“I WORKED HARD PICKING THOSE APPLES! IT WAS THE BEST PIE I EVER MADE!”

After a while she calmed down. She helped raise by brother and me to keep us on the straight and narrow and I knew she loved us. She always said, “Remember who you are.”

Rex Ray said...

Kevin,
There was another that did a 180 after signing a creed. His name was Thomas Cranmer.

He held his signature hand closer to the fire so it burned first.

Like today, he was guilty of not accepting legalistic authority with new nitpicking controversial doctrine.

Kevin, are you doing your part in following a SBC vice president, Jim Richard’s decree?

“Those who depart theologically will be identified and called to repent.”

Whose influence, besides the devil’s, has drown witches, burned Christians, fired missionaries, and all in the name of God?

RM said...

I am sure anyone cares if Wade signs something or not. I sure don't care if a bunch of preachers come up with yet another document--and then do nothing.

Why not chill out and enjoy perhaps the best post that Wade has ever made. I'm sharing the pumpkin picture with all my relatives and friends. My sentiments exactly.

Tom Parker said...

RM:

You said--"I am sure anyone cares if Wade signs something or not. I sure don't care if a bunch of preachers come up with yet another document--and then do nothing."

Amen and Amen. There is a long history of the preachers then doing nothing.

Kevin M. Crowder said...

Wade,

I apologize, I thought the subject of the OP was CRAP.

:)


Anyway to Tom and RM,

I really agree with the 2 of you regarding things like the Memphis Declaration and Merritt Junior's "Global Warming I need a Cause to Make Me As Big As Daddy" Declaration. I have read those documents; seem the list of signatories, and seen nothing in response. (Except the $1000.00/hour Merritt lecture tours) But the Manhattan Declaration is different. It requires no action unless the government steps into our pulpits (and rest assured they will). It is a glorious document signed by Catholic Cardinals, Orthodox Priests, Southern Baptist Seminary Presidents (the reason Wade won't sign) and a host of other recognizable men of grace and piety such as J.I. Packer, Chuck Colson, and me. :)

At over 100,000 this morning it will soon be the largest vote of solidarity amongst the People's of Christ in our nation’s history.

As one who champions cooperation, I would think Wade would help me to lead a charge in signing this document to stop government's intrusion into the sacred.

Steve said...

Mr. Burleson – I am disappointed to see this picture on your blog. This type of vulgar reference illustrates the sad sign of the times when we stoop to this kind of humor. By the way, I am also disappointed in your continued personal attacks on people with whom you disagree.

I join the other readers of your blog in wishing you and your family a Happy Thanksgiving. Save me your piece of pumpkin pie:)

Elisabeth said...

That was funny!

I love pumpkin pie, BTW. And here I thought you were one of the good guys Wade! ;-)

Happy Thanksgiving!

Michael Ruffin said...

Silly, silly, silly, silly, silly, silly scatological, or to put it biblically, "skubalogical," humor.

I sent a similar picture to my graduate school student son who replied, "I just drank some pumpkin spice coffee--I don't even want to think about where it may have come from."

I am thankful for a sense of humor.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Frank (or Chip) said...

That is one of the most awful things I have ever seen. I cannot wait to pass it on!
Frank

Jeff said...

Here's how I feel about this blog, not about Wade---the BLOG.

It's a quote from Seinfeld.

"He is a loathsome, offensive brute, yet I can't look away."

Paraphrase for this blog...

It is a loathsome offensive blog, yet, I can't stay away.

:) Just having fun...

Jeff

believer333 said...

"Allow me to opine with a fresh perspective on the comp/egal debate. The logical end of egalitarianism is that marriage between a man and a woman is no different than a same-sex marriage."

Kevin, you are joking, right. :)

Otherwise, I'd have to say that you must have a blood clot in your right frontal lobe. :)

And Happy Thanksgiving all. Brethren here are getting families together for the full deal.

Lydia said...

True Pumpkin pie story:

My cousin moved to Cluj, Romania right after it opened up. After a few years there, one thing she missed was Pumpkin Pie in the fall. But there were no pumpkins anywhere in the city markets to be bought. And no canned pumpkin, either.

On a mission trip into the mountains, she saw a pile of pumpkins out in a field on the old dirt road they were on. She told her guides she wanted to stop and ask if she could buy a pumpkin to make a pie. They were aghast at such a suggestion and told her pumpkins are grown as feed for the pigs.

Lydia said...

"Allow me to opine with a fresh perspective on the comp/egal debate. The logical end of egalitarianism is that marriage between a man and a woman is no different than a same-sex marriage."

Kevin, that is sicko. And most certainly NOT a fresh perspective. It is old stuff right out of the CBMW hall of fame. And, it is below your level of intelligence. It must boil down to you guys being afraid of losing your preeminance in the "One Flesh Union".

Lets look at the illogical conclusions of your position:

"How do I come to that conclusion? If man and woman are equal in all aspects of the marital relationship (i.e. no role difference),"

What are 'roles' outside of the obvious biological ones? Since my father died when I was young, my mom had to take on the "role" of provider. Are you saying this is wrong? She was not in her role. And because God allowed him to get sick and die, then He would be angry with her for being out of her "role"? Would this have affected her salvation or sanctification? What about when my dad was alive but bedridden for the last 4 years of his life? Was she in sin for being out of her 'role' while he was alive?

I hear this stuff preached and look over at my friend who became a parapalegic at age 30 due to an accident and wonder how he must feel hearing such gender ROLE sermons about being the macho man in charge.

Of course, you would say he is exempt. But in the meantime, you ARE talking about roles being what God has ordained. So, God must not like him much, huh? And his wife must be in sin while she provides for the family.

Or what about those women who built airplanes during WW2. Were they in sin for being out of their 'role'. (Whatever that is)

How about poor women who have always had to work with babies strapped on their backs? Or the Pioneers?

This 'role' stuff is right out of the 1950's and applies to a certain class system that existed in certain times. Poor people have never had the luxury of 'roles'.

So, exactly how are men and women unequal? Give us specifics.

" and if God ordained this system,"

God didn't. It is a result of sin. So, you are teaching sin as virtue. Sanctified sin so you can be the big cheese.


" and of the full image of God can be attained by two equals becoming one, and if maleness and femaleness each bring nothing unique to the marital union, then a 2 men or two women could achieve the same effect of manifesting the imago dei. "

Hmmm. Perhaps you believe as Ware does that women are not made in the direct image of God? They are a derivative. And in order to carry the Image of God they must do it through a man?

Same sex relationships are an abomination to God. Period.

Why do you all keep trying to map spiritual equality to homosexuality?

Christiane said...

I remember going to dinner at my French Canadienne Aunt Lorraine's home one fall day with my family long ago.
The table, as always, was beautifully set. (Auntie Lorraine was big on 'presentation')
She said,
"And now, for the Big Surprise !(Auntie Lorraine was big on surprises, too):

On a silver platter, my Aunt brought in A STUFFED PUMPKIN !!!

She had grown this pumplkin in her pumplin patch and it was BEAUTIFUL.
She had cut off the top, hollowed out the seeds, and stuffed the pumpkin with a mixture of onions (fried to clear in butter), hot Italian sausage meat, and cubed potatoes.
Then she had replaced the pumpkin lid and baked the WHOLE THING.

We had never seen anything quite like it. Ever.
It was delicious.

But that wasn't the end of my Aunt's surprises. Oh no.
She asked me to go downstairs to the freezer to get the frozen dessert and bring it up to the kitchen. She said it was wrapped in bubble wrap and I should un-wrapped it and bring it up.

The family told me later that, as I went down into the basement to retrieve the dessert, my Aunt Lorraine counted
'Five, four, three, two, one . . . '
and then, as if on cue, they all heard MY VERY LOUD SCREAM :)

I had unwrapped the bubble-wrap, only to find a really ugly huge frozen BOAR'S HEAD COMPLETE WITH TUSKS staring at me inside !!!!!!!!
We still laugh about it.

Aunt Lorraine never let us down.
She loved to cook, she loved to laugh, and she loved her whole family so much. So very much.

Happy Thanksgiving All,
Love, L's

P.S. Try the sausage-fried onion-potato= stuffed pumpkin sometime. It's really very delicious. Wade might even like it.
:)

Elisabeth said...

L's

That was so funny! I could just see you expecting a pie or a cake, and, ta-da! A boar's head! :-)

Wade Burleson said...

Lydia,

Thanks for a clear rebuttal to a horribly weak argument.

Wade

Wade Burleson said...

L's and Rex,

Both of you have made me laugh.

:)

RM said...

I came to the blog today to enjoy something funny and what do I get? A bunch of stuff about women's roles and gay people.

Come on folks, give it a break and enjoy the holidays. And we wonder why they fight in our churches.

Tim G said...

Wade,
We finally agree on something totally! The picture and the words of yours relating to pumkin pie are indeed your best, most accurate, timely, and beneficial post of all time!

Happy Thanksgiving!

Marvin Merriweather said...

Steve,

Get a life! You call this kind of post "vulgar"?!?!?! It is a simple pumpkin with a distorted facial expression. Oh, wait, I get it...

YOU are a Pharisee!

Yep, that explains it....

Marvin

Chris Johnson said...

Looks like an angry "Alabama" pumpkin reading the history of Longhorn dominance (we did let them win once). I like the book...a touch of Texas!

-Chris

Jeff said...

Kevin, Thanks for putting showing the weak argument of women pastors and gays.

rick t said...

Wade, do not look at my direction when you preach sunday. If you do, i'm gonna have a piece of pumpkin pie with whipped cream on it, put it up to my mouth, and drool all over myself right smack dab in the middle of your teaching. Have a blessed thanksgiving.

rick t

Wade said...

Rick,

I won't look! Congrats on the Social deposit!

Wade said...

mocksnhongkong,

Happy Thanksgiving from all the Burlesons stateside.

Just now saw your comment!

Blessings to you both.

Wade

willoh said...

Please feed your pumpkins more fiber. This will help the pained expression.

Kevin M. Crowder said...

"It is old stuff right out of the CBMW hall of fame. And, it is below your level of intelligence."

Lydia,

You have no idea what a complement that is. As to "roles," I never defined them, and you certainly hit miles from where my though process is. You might try to understand my heart before you make me out as dissing the WWII moms, or those whom the Lord blesses with special grace to do the parental tasks of 2. Finally, sin and its effects are of course not part of God's will of disposition, but His decreed will most certainly accounts for it. Sin is the very reason God has instituted His redemptive plan. there is a redemptive purpose in the complementarity of the male/female union. Hardly a return to paradise, but cetainly a postive effect on the disposition of God.

"Kevin, you are joking, right. :)

"Otherwise, I'd have to say that you must have a blood clot in your right frontal lobe. :)"

Believer,

I wasn't joking. And while I am a champion of humor, I find nothing funny about joking about such illnesses.



A very Happy Thankgiving to you all. I will always think of this thread when I pinch off a pumpkin pie.

K

PS: That was not mid-Missouri humor, that more like bootheel humor. :)

Lydia said...

"You have no idea what a complement that is. As to "roles," I never defined them, and you certainly hit miles from where my though process is. "

I don't do 'hearts' and I don't do 'motives'. I can only judge behavior, words out of a mouth and words written on a page.

I based my response on your words.

" there is a redemptive purpose in the complementarity of the male/female union. "

I agree with this. The only problem is that a real "complimentary" One Flesh union of male and female adults is egal. Not hierarchical. If it is hierarchical, it is not complimentary. That is Orwellian speak designed to make sinful Patriarchy acceptable to the ignorant pew sitters. It was a cultural response.

At the same time singles can be redeemed and carry the Image of God, too.

Old Covenant: Be fruitful and multiply

New Covenant: Go and make disciples

(Lottie Moon was used as God's instrument for 'redemptive purpose' without being married.)

Rex Ray said...

Lydia,
Your cousin’s story of pumpkins being feed for pigs reminds me in 1947 my parents taught American school children for two years in Germany. They also were aghast for us asking to eat corn that was pig food.

It’s a good thing our church is in the country as we never learn by having a ‘repeat’ of a ‘pumpkin patch’ event of selling pumpkins furnished free by others. They get 70% of the sales and the church gets 30%.

The Joker is ‘others’ set the price at over 3 times the price of Wall-Mart, and the big question is who’s going to remove over 500 pumpkins that look like Wade’s picture from our future ball field?

They’re not hearing ‘I told you so’ but they know I’m thinking it. :)
Hey! That smile thing even looks like a pumpkin.


Wade,
Glad you like mine and L’s stories. I can just hear L’s scream. Her Aunt must have been quite a character.

That ‘less sugar’ diet might have helped my parents live to 93 and 94 and look YOUNG.
At 93, mother introduced me as her son.
“Mrs. Ray, he CAN’T be your son – you’re NOT that old.”

Maybe it worked in reverse with me as I was introduced to a lady, she said, “You don’t have to introduce me to Mr. Ray. I went to school with his twin boys; Hez and Rex.”
I wanted to kill her.

Happy Thanksgiving!