"I went to Jerusalem to become acquainted (Gk. istoria) with Cephas" - Paul's words from Galatians 1:18.

Grace and Peace to You Geoff Hammond


Word has come tonight from North American Mission Board trustee chairman Tim Patterson that Geoff Hammond, President of NAMB, and his three close associates at NAMB have "resigned" from their positions. Geoff has shown me nothing but Christian civility and grace since his election at President at NAMB in March of 2007. Last year at the Southern Baptist Convention, Geoff was seated on the platform with several SBC leaders. I was leaving the stage after asking the SBC parliamentarian a question when Geoff stood from where he was seated, stopped me, warmly shook my hand and greeted me by name--an act of Christian kindness that could have cost him a great deal in terms of those watching him, Geoff didn't seem to care what others thought. He struck me as simply a Christian gentleman. I will not offer an opinion of the action taken by NAMB trustees to release Geoff from his duties, but allow me to point out just a few things that I hope may shed some light on the character of Geoff Hammond.

(1). He was elected President of NAMB unanimously by trustees just two years ago (March 2007).
(2). The Florida Baptist Witness, Baptist Press and other Southern Baptist news agencies released trustee chairman Patterson's statement about the resignation--but not Geoff's.
(3). The resignation(s) came behind closed doors, and as everyone knows, trustee leaders were meeting to terminate, so the resignations were allowed as the lesser of two evils.
(4). Closed door meetings allow one side of an issue to be reported--the side that controls the media. Geoff ought to consider starting a blog (smile).
(5). SBC institutions are in some serious danger.

My prayers are for with all those affected.

In His Grace,



Wade Burleson

75 comments:

Thy Peace said...

Pastor Wade, I was somewhat critical of Geoff Hammond, when he did not appear to agree with the executive coach that was assigned to him. I initially thought why do these executives need coaches to do their basic jobs.

Since Geoff stood to greet you by name, in front of all the other Southern Baptist "luminaries", I admire his courage. Now I am rethinking of the assigned executive coach he was supposed to have worked with. My guess is, it is probably all politics.

Wade Burleson said...

Thy Peace,

One may wonder about the reasons for his removal, but one cannot question his love for Christ, his zeal for souls and his loyalty to the SBC. I am just wanting to ensure people in the SBC know that Geoff is a man of true Christian character.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Any nominations for replacements?

:)

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Wade - do you know for a fact that Hammond did release a statement? If so, for what reason would BP and FBW not give it, or link to it?

Wade Burleson said...

FBC,

I don't know whether or not Geoff released a statement.

What I do know is the chairman of the board of trustees released a statement.

I find that particularly odd since the chairman is not the one resigning from NAMB.

Hopefully a statement from Geoff will follow shortly.

Dave Miller said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lydia said...

Does Rankin have an executive coach? Is this normal practice in our entities?

RM said...

And I wonder who the lucky man will be that becomes Paige Patterson's coach...

If a board of trustees can find a man to hire that doesn't need a coach then they need to keep looking until they find one.

ml said...

Wade, while I am saddened by how these events unfold and move with the lowest degree of transparency, it is ironic that the 3 associates were bitten by the very structure they used for their own benefit. Baptist Press reports:

All three of the associates who resigned had close working relationships with Hammond before he became NAMB president. Reid and Pickett were on staff with Hammond at SBCV. Culbreth was a pastor in Chesapeake, Va., a NAMB trustee and member of the search committee that brought Hammond to the mission board.

After Bob Reccord was terminated [well I mean resigned ;)] you would have thought the kind of institutional nepotism that brought Culbreth to NAMB as a paid position would have been avoided? The Baptist Press article and Chairman comments certainly do not inspire confidence in our agency appointed leadership.

Daniel said...

Wade,

You're sounding a little political again. Have you decided not to stick to your pledge of a full year free of SBC politics on your blog?

hashman said...

wade, if you dont' know if Geoff has made a statment, then this is misleading.

"The Florida Baptist Witness, Baptist Press and other Southern Baptist news agencies released trustee chairman Patterson's statement about the resignation--but not Geoff's."

Wade Burleson said...

Daniel,

Were I to be political, I would say a great deal more. This is a post about Geoff's character.

Wade Burleson said...

Hashman,

Were you to "resign" from your position as a minister, employee, or President would you not release a "statement" as to why you would resign?

Of course.

Geoff's Hammond statement of why he "resigned" was not released, so either it was withheld, or someone's being dishonest with terminology and the chairman should say Geoff was terminated.

Blessings,

wade

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I like this statement from the head of the trustees:

"Dr. Hammond has resigned as president of the North American Mission Board and his resignation takes effect immediately. In addition, three of Dr. Hammond's closest associates - Steve Reid, Dennis Culbreth and Brandon Pickett - will resign their positions as well.

Hmmmm...."you will be resigning, won't you?"....an offer they couldn't refuse.

Wade Burleson said...

FBC,

My point precisely.

The SBC needs honesty, integrity and transparency. It's like we live lies.

Kevin M. Crowder said...

The SBC has reached an all time low. When will we wake up and see the shame of our leaders chain sawing the cross. The power mongering is disgusting and I for one am sick of it. The SBC probably does not deserve Dr. Hammond anyway.

The trustee system is broke. Our representative polity is broke. Many of our churches are broke and our mission is subject to program after program (all broken) only to now find an attempt to fix the ship with a Great Commission Resurgence wrought with jealousy and greed and more power mongering.

Watch out all ye who fear the Lord and are busy laboring...the chainsaws is comin'...the chainsaws is comin'...


Kevin M. Crowder

Kevin M. Crowder said...

The Baptist Standard reports this:

"In May NAMB trustees unanimously approved a resolution affirming Hammond for "exemplary, unique leadership and vision."

erin said...

Kevin,

Your second paragraph is the key.
Having served on two of our entities boards and at the convention level in two additional positions I see how pathetic the performances of many trustees are.
Most are appointed for the wrong reasons, they "owe their souls to the company store" and fear repercussions if they don't toe the line. Good people, more men than women, become disillusioned and some, corrupted, by becoming an "insider" than we can imagine.

I am not trying to be political, just honest and objective.

Den

Christiane said...

Hi KEVIN,

It's me, L's

I was thinking that we could call the late unpleasantness:

the Great NAMB Tuesday Night Massacre

only now, with your post, I can see the truth:

it is: The Great NAMB Chainsaw Massacre of 2009 :)

How are you doing? How is Seminary? I don't twitter but I check your blog from time to time, to see if you have news.

Love and Prayers, L's

Joe Blackmon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kevin M. Crowder said...

Erin,

I have taken a long reprieve from Grace and Truth To You and am really not knowledgeable about the new commenting rules. But believe me when I say I am not being political. Politics requires an agenda. I have no agenda. I am a Baptist minister learning Covenant Theology at a Presbyterian Seminary. I like Wade am a Calvinist and Partial-Preterist and have little patience for the uncooperative spirit that permeates the 'good ol' boy's club.'

The political nonsense of late is only proof that the SBC is highly fragmented. When our missions endeavors are in turmoil, what reason is there to stay aboard? We are not the only ones out there. Few are left with the energy to fight.

My point? The SBC is NOT worth it.

K

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Brother Joe, please, please change that picture.

Seriously.

I couldn't take you seriously before, and now I really have trouble taking you seriously.

:)

John Fariss said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John Fariss said...

Good to see a comment from you, Kevin. I have been thinking about you and wondering how you were doing. Hope the best for you, and that seminary is as good an experience for you as it was for me.

Oh BTW, I agree with your comments. Well, maybe except for the last one. I still struggle with that.

John

Wade Burleson said...

FBC,

I like Joe's picture :)


Wade

Wade Burleson said...

Kevin,

Sir, by your last comment, I must ask, "Are you really Kevin Crowder or an imposter?"

You are starting to sound like me.

Smile,

Wade

Wade Burleson said...

By the way, Joe, one more thing.

If I wanted to be political, my post for today would say a great deal more. For example, I would write about Richard Land's statements that Phil Robert's of Midwestern is the most likely replacement for Geoff--and that statement was made last week.

I don't write posts about those things anymore because, frankly, I am uninterested.

Kerygma said...

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

erin said...

Kevin,

My intention was to affirm your comment and to lament the the current condition of the SBC trustee system.

Blessings on you as you serve the Lord and as you strive to learn how to do that better. Good choice of seminaries.

Den

Tim G said...

One thing I will give Wade Burleson, he helps me to get a good laugh from time to time. Joe, you did a great job in highlighting what I was going to write.

Wade, thanks for keeping humor in my daily routine!

Tom Parker said...

Tim G:

You said to Wade--"One thing I will give Wade Burleson, he helps me to get a good laugh from time to time."

You also said--"Wade, thanks for keeping humor in my daily routine!"

So Tim, just what do you find so humorous about 4 people losing their jobs?

Joe Blackmon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tom Parker said...

Joe B:

I think Wade B could have a one word blog topic and some would accuse him of being political.

If some could have their way here is all you would get about Geoff Hammond and the three others--Four individuals resigned from NAMB and just trust us.

Joe Blackmon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Wade said...

Tom,

I am more than happy to provide Tim humor and Joe consternation if it means I am the only person in the SBC who is today saying something kind and positive about Geoff.

There may be others saying kind things about Geoff, I just can't find them through official channels.

It's worth whatever comes my way.

Joe Blackmon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tom Kelley said...

I wondered how long it would take for someone to cry out "Political post!" Kinda reminds me of Gomer Pyle chasing after Barney Fife and hollering "Cit-uh-sun's uh-RAY-est! Cit-uh-sun's uh-RAY-est!"

Joe Blackmon said...
I expected better from you this year, Wade.


Joe, why do I doubt that? :) But I like your picture, too!

Joe Blackmon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tom Kelley said...

Joe,
Sadly, I know exactly what you are talking about without having to go to wikipedia.

Here's a site you might enjoy:
Comic book yourself

happy gram said...

Kevin Crowder: "You've come a long way, baby!" (echoes wade's comment)

Joe Blackmon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kevin M. Crowder said...

From Baptist Press News:

"MORE NEWS [Headlines]

More beheadings in Somalia reported

NAMB president, 3 associates, resign"

[More Beheadings to come]

Michael Ruffin said...

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

John said...

Wade...

i agree with you that Hammond is a man of character. I think that this whole thing is really about having one mission board. That's why Johnny Hunt was at the meeting instead of GCR and why everything was kept behind closed doors because its all part of a grand scheme by the "good old boys". As far as Hammond's statement not being released it could be that its a pact not to give his side of the story or it could be like many church pastors where they threaten to give them nothing if they talk against them. One thing is for sure, Orlando is going to be interesting.

Kirwa said...

It pains to see Geoff and others being subjected to such heartless and baseless accusations. I have worked and known Geoff for several years and has proved himself a man of integrity and reputation. He has a big heart for missions and missionaries. How comes the trustees endorsed his leadership a few months ago, only to wake up one morning and realized that he is surrounded by his “cronies”? When Geoff assumed office, he immediately hired Steve, Brandon and Dennis who have been part of his staff for all this time. This is a campaign by some people who did not like the good changes that have been going on at NAMB. Now the trustees have voted to go back to the old days, the familiar days, the comfortable days instead of moving the agency to a higher level where the mission is to lead Southern Baptists to conquer the world for Christ. The next President and his team, be wary for the same axe which fell Geoff is still swinging.

RRR said...

John said...
"Wade...

i agree with you that Hammond is a man of character. I think that this whole thing is really about having one mission board."

Me too.

Tim G said...

Tom,
I find NO humor in anyone losing their job. But I do find humor in your constant ignoring of the comment in context!

It was that Wade said the post was not political and yet it was political.

Tom, you need to lighten up a bit man! Your obvious agenda is causing you to miss the context. You are better than this!

Wade Burleson said...

Tim,

You say it was political. I say it was not political.

We disagree.

What else is new?

Love and blessings to my friend with whom I often disagree.

Tom Parker said...

Tim G:

You said--"Tom, you need to lighten up a bit man! Your obvious agenda is causing you to miss the context. You are better than this!"

Thanks for the humor, Tim! Do you realize that you say the very same thing to me every time? You always do something I consider inappropriate and then you want to use transference and place all the blame on me. Believe it or not I am ok with your doing that.

And the agenda thing? Man, I do not have an agenda, but I think you do.

What is your take on these four firings?

robert prince said...

Things seem to be falling in place for the IMB-NAMB merger. Who will head the mega-agency? Paige?

Tim G said...

Tom,
I have no take. Surely there were problems at NAMB. But to what extent and to who's fault, I am not connected their and thus do not know.

Wade,
I think the statements identified prove this time that I am right!

:)

Thy Peace said...

All the below links are from Baptist Life Forums > SBC News and Trends:

NAMB has an interim leader "going nowhere but forward"....

Word from new NAMB trustee...in fantasyland.

Open letter to NAMB trustees.

NAMB leader, 3 top associates resign.

Where are the Voices?.

More trouble at NAMB....

Thy Peace said...

Fbc Jax Watchdog > Three Cheers for William Thornton of Baptist Life.

Christiane said...

Hi THY PEACE,

Do you know if the trustees of NAMB practice full disclosure about how all contributions are spent so that contributors can see where their money is going?

Or is that information also kept behind closed doors?

Thanks if you can help.

Love, L's

Joe Blackmon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kevin M. Crowder said...

L's,

I have confidence in the board of trustees and the staff and leadership of NAMB to appropriate CP dollars and other contributions to the best of their ability to further the Kingdom work of the SBC (to the degree that such a large organizations can be managed). What I do not have confidence in is their ability to listen to the man from Macedonia and to cooperate. The only way to stop them is to pull the plug. churches need to start funding missionaries directly. An inefficient system? Maybe, but I'd rather buy food, medicine, clothing and Bibles than key chains, bumper stickers and CD's promoting GCR, GPS, EKG, 20/20, etc etc...

Christiane said...

Thank you JOE BLACKMON.

Actually all that info sounds pretty reassuring.


Hi KEVIN,

I understand. I would not want to contribute to missions if I found out that money was not being spent to help the missionaries.

I did support a Presbyterian evangelical missionary with a donation when he left our school faculty for service in the mission fields. I knew he would use the money in all the right ways. He was so obviously 'called' by the Lord to serve.

We all prayed for his safety.

BTW, how's it going at Seminary?
My prayers are with you, Kevin.
Love, L's

Kevin M. Crowder said...

L's,

Seminary is great! I am very busy. Working multiple jobs...just finished 2 summer Greek courses, eating lots of Paul Burleson Post-Toasties for breakfast lunch and dinner and making lots of lifetime ministry friends....oh, and debating the heck out of pedo/credo-Baptism. I thought about compromising and immersing the babies, but the mothers around here want nothing to do with that. :) I heard somewhere that babies float in water but that was no comfort. :/

A quick plug for my President Dr. Bryan Chapell: He has 2 books coming out this month. 1. Christ-Centered Worship and 2. A Commentary on Ephesians by Baker academic. Both are sure to be excellent.


Thanks for the prayers L's and the rest as well.

Learning to service Him (and her) better,

Kevin

Christiane said...

God Bless You, Kevin

Thy Peace said...

L's: I would not have that information for NAMB. If you wish to find out about all the mess that happened with the prior head of NAMB, please read this book:

Amazon > Spending God's Money: Extravagance And Misuse In The Name Of Ministry by Mary Kinney Branson.

Stop Baptist Predators > Spending God's Money.

Thy Peace said...

Some more links on Mary Kinney Branson's book:

Mainstream Baptist [Dr. Bruce Prescott] > Podcast: Mary Kinney Branson Interview.

Father's Press > Mary Kinney Branson.

Ethics Daily > Insider Book Details Waste at NAMB.

Ethics Daily > Former NAMB Head 'Saddened,' 'Grieved' by Book.

SBC Outpost [Marty Duren] > Book Review, “Spending God’s Money,” by Mary Kinney Branson.

Paul Burleson said...

Just so no one will think I own a cereal company, especially Post Toasties, Kevin is referring to a story I told one time in a post of having just enough money to buy a box of cereal and a half gallon of milk for a week while I was in seminary YEARS ago and thought nothing about it. It makes for a good breakfast,lunch and dinner when it's all you have.

You've got a great memory Kevin. It will serve you well when you take Hebrew.

PastorJohnFr said...

Wade,

Have you read Dave Samples blog on the subject? He's evidentally a new trustee and this was his first meeting (i don't envy him). He seems to have gotten the wool pulled over his eyes by the SBC elite and bought everything hook line and sinker and he's taking it all at face value. see comment 15 where he believes that there were no politics involved. I didn't know that a CEO was fired based on the three trivial accusations given in BP. He admits that there was a confidentiality agreement that prohibits Hammond from saying anything, so much for transparency. As for the letter of resignation, if one of the trustees can't find it, i certainly don't expect one to pop up in Baptist press. My heart goes out to the four families for having been thrown under the bus for someone else's agenda.

Wade Burleson said...

David is a good man, and a new trustee.

I have heard from trustees that have served for much longer than David. My argument is not with trustees making a decision to remove the President--it is with the process by which it is done.

JM said...

Wade,
The truth is often hard to swallow. Unfortunately for members of the SBC we are finding ourselves hijacked by a political elite "good old boys".

These are facts, not gathered from bloggers but first hand from multiple sources:
1. Geoff had no opportunity to refute or give rebuttal to the accusations made about him. Was there not a single member of the trustee board that recognizes the Matthew 18 principle?
2. Three of the five execs that spoke against him came from Johnny Hunts church. They had been in discussion on these matters with Johnny for months. This was a planned strategy to take Hammond down because of his SUCCESS. His success got in the way of the plan by Johnny Hunt, Ted Traylor, Danny Aiken.
3. Tim Patterson, chairman of these trustees is a pawn who has been courted by Johnny and others to do what they want. He has been on the NAMB board for 11 years during which he has been in a thorn in the flesh of any success at NAMB. The meeting of the trustees was called to handle the issue of Tim Patterson spreading rumors and negative accusations then running to the press with them. He was garnering support and talking to them about firing Hammond. How does a trustee board that gave Hammond a 100% vote of confidence just TWO MONTHS earlier request his resignation based on conversations with a few disgruntled execs? None of it makes sense.
4. Someone please ask how a man who gave $0 dollars to Annie Armstrong last year can actually lead the charge in the firing the man hired to lead NAMB. Why would he be allowed to speak in the meeting? Why is he SBC president? The reason is as plain as the nose on your face. There is much to be gained by getting rid of NAMB and joining it with the IMB then DISPURSING the money to other SBC Institutions such as SEMINARIES. The amount of money involved in this transaction is astronomical.
5. Please ask Johnny Hunt and the rest of these men who led the charge against Hammond how many friends they have hired for their church staffs and why this hiring of people you have worked with previously is now considered negative? The reason for the roll-over of long time execs against Hammond is because they wanted the top spots. I believe that Harry Lewis had his own hat in the ring for President before Hammond was hired.
6. Watch out Morris Chapman! You are next! They don't like you because you are standing in the way of their plan. Watch out Jerry Rankin! You better work out that retirement because they want to fill your position. In fact, it's already been promised to a certain mega church pastor.
7. Little churches across SBC America, stand up, speak up, and push them to be accountable! Don't let them have their power and money. Don't give it to them!

Darby Livingston said...

JM,

Do you think that maybe you should cut back on the caffeine?

PastorJohnFr said...

Where is Ben Cole's call for open letters of honesty when you need him ? :)

PastorJohnFr said...

direct quote from another blog on the subject....not saying who has the better blog but i thought some would like to see it. This isn't from me.

"NAMB Trustee Meeting, August 11 2009

Called into Executive Session by Tim Patterson
Fellow trustee called for President Hammond to remain in the room since he is the president of NAMB
Barry McCarty, SBC Parliamentarian, called that motion out of order
Several other trustees pressed for Hammond to stay
McCarty ruled against all requests/motions
Hammond supporters were kept at bay
Hammond and others left the Day Auditorium
They were never invited to return
David Doverspike, attorney for NAMB remained in the meeting
Johnny Hunt, SBC President; 3 NAMB Senior Strategists; 2 NAMB Team Leaders spoke to the Trustees
Towards the later part of the afternoon, it was clear that Hammond supporters did not know what they could do any more
Hammond would need to resign, and that was clear for Culbreth since he was senior assistant to Hammond
When asked about Reid and Pickett, a trustee said “let me go check”
That trustee came back and said “I’m sorry to tell you this, but they want you all to go”
Not one of the 4 had a chance to hear or answer any charges/accusations against them
Hammond asked to speak to the trustees, to share something from his heart. Said he would not be negative or throw anyone under the bus. He was denied that opportunity.

Ted Traylor was quoted last week as saying, “the trustee system works”. Guess it does when you can figure out the parliamentarian loophole that keeps those being questioned from being present. Even if it is the president of the entity.

Tim Patterson, in his address to NAMB staff Wednesday morning said, “God is leading these four men elsewhere”.
To my knowledge, these 4 men have no idea where they go next. They would say that God called them to NAMB. Tim, don’t speak for God on their behalf. You did not even let them speak on their own behalf."

JM said...

They also took Geoff Hammonds keys for his company car as they led him out of the building. He had no ride home! He had to call someone to take him home! What is this? Who does this kind of stuff? Apparently Hunt has never heard of WWJD. I am however certain that no other president of an institution within the SBC has EVER been treated as poorly and ungodly as Hammond. I think it would be helpful to Hunt and the others involved in this Kangaroo Court to be reminded of the Golden Rule. It's not enough to just know about it but LIVE it. The power that they used to slash the heart and passion of this man and his dream to lead this mission sending agency is breath-taking and shows a tremendous lack of discretion, grace, and willingness to wait on God. They bullied, controlled, usurped, and plotted. I've seen these kinds of behaviors in political parties, ruthless backroom board meetings, and churches that have a small controlling group who desire to kick the pastor out because he doesn't do what they say. Be careful, it will come back to you.

John Fariss said...

JM,

You said, "I am however certain that no other president of an institution within the SBC has EVER been treated as poorly and ungodly as Hammond."

Are you familiar with Russell Dilday, former president of SWBTS? And Dr. Sheri Kloda, though not a president of anything, a former Hebrew professor at SWBTS? (And maybe a professor or two at SBTS also.) Sounds to me like they based their actions toward Hammond directly from the SWBTS playbook. That's my biting statement; now that I got that out of the way, I can say something more meaningful: it represents a dysfunctional way of relating. It is the same sort of dysfunction many pastors and church conflict consultants see in troubled churches: instead of following Matthew 18 to resolve issues, worldly ways--maybe I should even say Satanic ways--are followed, because they seem to be more direct, and quicker, and more certain. But there will be a price to pay. It will either come in increasing dyusfunction will will eventually cripply and doom the entity, or will require an inordinate amount of time and energy to correct. And that is without considering the spiritual toll on both sides.

Other than that however--I agree completely with you. It is wrong, just plain wrong, and violates what the Bible says.

John

Michael Ruffin said...

There is actually quite a long history of this kind of thing going back to the 1980s. It has happened over and over and will likely happen over and over some more. I want to say that it will continue until Southern Baptists rise up and say "No more" (like some folks would say happened with the CR) but it seems to me that one of the results of the CR is that the present power group is much more entrenched and much more willing to do whatever it takes to preserve and to extend their power than the "moderates" who used to be in control ever were. The beast is too big and the machine is too strong, I fear, but I hope I am wrong.

Kevin M. Crowder said...

It is time to defund NAMB. This means designating our offerings at the local level and pressing our churches to defund the CP. I am ordinarily a strong proponent of storehouse tithing and the CP. But desperate times call for desperate measures. God will's that we be wise stewards. When the CP funds organizations like NAMB, SWBTS, and ERLC who are antagonistic, divisive, and blatantly destroy lives, then it is time to transition out tithes to more God honoring ministries--even if that be outside the SBC. Churches need to consider funding missionaries directly. Eliminating the good ol’ boys will stop a lot of Satan’s work.

Kevin

Thy Peace said...

Joining God in His Work [Les Puryear] > The NAMB Coup d'état.

Dave said...

I worked with Geoff Hammond at the SBCV in Virginia and was one of several unfortunate enough to fall victim to his management style. Most of the employees who left the SBCV at that time would echo my sentiments by saying that Dr. Hammond is everything the NAMB trustees have accused him of...and then some. When he became the president several years ago, I knew this day would come. I am not in the least bit surprised.

Anonymous said...

The forced resignation monster rears it's ugly head once more. Hmmmm. I see a pattern developing.